PES 2013 Discussion Thread

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I hope something good does come out because that teaser trailer wouldn't have been cheap to make. Could have saved some cash and put it towards something else lol.

I agree with Jamez though - if they improve upon some of the main PES 2012 niggles and add extra animations and make the visuals really nice, as well as polishing up some of the in game menu's and presentation, this current engine could still dish up a really good football game.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I don't think that a new engine is due with PES 2013, they will probably save that one for the next-gen-debut of next year.

It's ok for me though, if they can solve the bugs and inadequacies of PES 2012:

1. To make it possible to leave the rails without supercancel and without losing momentum.

2. To improve player-awareness regarding loose balls and plays the game didn't expect me to choose.

3. To improve goalkeepers and ballphysics.

4. To offer separate slider-options for ball- and gameplay-speed and a camera-editor, that works like in Fifa, ie. every camera should be customisable regarding height-angle and zoom.

5. To make night-games nice to look at or better yet to allow that all single-player-modi be playable on sun/day-setting if we wish for that.

6. Making defenders cover better the attackers who wait for a cross in the goal-area.

7. Get rid of the catch-up-bug. Yes it's better than in PES 2011, but still the defenders catch up where normally they couldn't, I guess that's a gamedesign-decision.

8. Fix the high-ball-bug where players stop their forward-run and come back for a meter and then go forward again whenever a highball comes from behind them. Probably also a gamedesign-decision to prevent easy goals.

9. To fix the clipping-issues. Ball going through the feet of my defenders is not nice. A nice one though was when one of my defenders went into the goal and went through the net of the goal.:JAY:

10. To fix the stats and make them realistic for the players and teams. Currently too many teams play the same which reduces the fun of the single-player.

11. Allow us to use manual shooting/crossing/shooting (with stat-influence) without having to press L2.

If Konami really improves upon PES 2012 (which I think is good on gamespeed -2) and improves upon the balancing, get rid of the bugs without introducing new problems, PES 2013 could be worthwhile.
 
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henrys hand said:
I don't think that a new engine is due with PES 2013, they will probably save that one for the next-gen-debut of next year.
Click to expand...

Do you know something the rest of us dont? Will we see Xbox 3 or PS4 before October 2013 intime for PES 2014?
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

my suggestions are:

  • get rid of supercancel
  • get rid of catch-up bug
  • manual passing (without the use of the LT button) should be standard
  • quick throw-ins
  • No black-outs and teleported players during throw-ins
  • Free movement during keeper kickoffs
  • Micromanagement, independent tactics for defence/midfield/attack. I don't like the sliderssystem, it's too universal.
  • much better keepers
  • FIX shooting!
  • unlimited saveslots for PC version (tactics/replays,...)

I don't really care about graphical details, for me good smooth, free, instinctive gameplay is prior. Easy to play, hard to master. Stunning graphics make me drool for one week, after that it only gameplay that counts.
 
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If my memory doesn't fail me, is the first time that Konami and PES Team uses a real players (Ronaldo) for a video promotion. Before they was only renders player moving (Messi). Maybe is a signal that this year something BIG is coming.
Just hyping time? Who knows?
 
I hope they don't put that collision thing in that Fifa has. It's horrible.

Also people talk of realism but how much do you want. This must be where making a football game is really hard.

Take Cesc's miss against Chelsea the other night. Not the one cleared off the line but the miss kick from 6 yards. Do you want that much realism?

I guarantee if that happened in pes13 you would all be on here moaning the shootings broke again.
 
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The problem with that kind of realism is that Konami probably wouldn't explain it properly so even if IS made to simulate a tired player shooting when under pressure and when his team is a goal down, unless it's explained as a feature, then it would seem like another case where the computer is just deciding for you.

Having said that, I believe the shooting error when it works properly looks a lot more natural on PES than it does on FIFA (when you adjust the sliders even by 2 points).

Look, I would LOVE a thinking man's game as long as it truly is coded that way and you know what you've done wrong on your controller input or what you should have done based on a player's stats/pressure/foot preference/ball position/power bar charge etc.

Also time for Konami to put serious thought into what affects the form arrows, rather than appearing to be some randomly generated number. Also, do we need ALL those permutations? Why not just bad form, average form and good form? Why can't form increase or decrease during a game based on whether they've been booked or missed a few shots/passes for example?
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Konami would want to put the effort in.

They do dominate the markets in Latin America and Asia. It would make no sense not to keep up and better still surpass the auld enemy.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

On the teaser, well like it or not, we've been complaining about their marketing strategies, and this looks more professional than anything we've seen before. Something you'd see on a Nike or Addidas ad for example.

I hope it's not just pure marketing though as talk is cheap ;)
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Why on earth should Konami get rid of "supercancel"???

THIS is the best thing in PES and should never be removed.

Fix the keepers: make them with 1 objective, GET the ball away of the net. They usually walk around without caring about the space they let to the forwards to score. NO! they should never let an open space to shoot (as far as it's possible, of course)

Real stamina: both total and sprint ones, so players have a total level for the whole match and a temporally level so if you start runnig in your own half when you get to the box, your player will be exhausted.

With these two things the game will take a huge step forward in realism IMO
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

geeg said:
Why on earth should Konami get rid of "supercancel"???

THIS is the best thing in PES and should never be removed.
Click to expand...

I think they mean get rid of anything automated therefore we won't need super cancel. Complete freedom in movement.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

geeg said:
Why on earth should Konami get rid of "supercancel"???

THIS is the best thing in PES and should never be removed.

Fix the keepers: make them with 1 objective, GET the ball away of the net. They usually walk around without caring about the space they let to the forwards to score. NO! they should never let an open space to shoot (as far as it's possible, of course)

Real stamina: both total and sprint ones, so players have a total level for the whole match and a temporally level so if you start runnig in your own half when you get to the box, your player will be exhausted.

With these two things the game will take a huge step forward in realism IMO
Click to expand...

Look, I understand why there are rails in the game,
BUT...
Why do we need supercancel to leave the path of the rail.
Why not just select the player and move the leftstick. Simplify!

The moment we have the cursor on our player we should be able to change his path without pressing a button and without losing momentum.
Click to expand...
Exactly!

I agree about a realistic stamina feature btw


Also time for Konami to put serious thought into what affects the form arrows, rather than appearing to be some randomly generated number. Also, do we need ALL those permutations? Why not just bad form, average form and good form? Why can't form increase or decrease during a game based on whether they've been booked or missed a few shots/passes for example?
Click to expand...

i second that!
I really hate the form arrows, difference between good and bad shape is a +-30% stats boost or penalty. That's way too much imo.
I'm 100% sure form arrows trigger AI cheating, play matches with green arrows for both team and you will never see things like ghost dribbling.
Also Form arrows in competition matches are much worse than in exhibition matches. Random form arrows are really random.
In real life players have periods when they are in good or bad shape!
In PES the form arrows in every match are just f**in'... RANDOM.
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Lami said:
I think they mean get rid of anything automated therefore we won't need super cancel. Complete freedom in movement.
Click to expand...

Yes, but that was my point too. An automated moving is needed so you can get the ball, think of it. If there was no automated "moving to the ball" we will see players walking around the ball without even touching it. IMO this is very well done in PES: the players go for the ball and, if you don't want them to do so, use supercancel.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

geeg said:
Why on earth should Konami get rid of "supercancel"???

THIS is the best thing in PES and should never be removed.
Click to expand...

You've got it wrong, supercancel is the best thing because there is no other way to leave the rails.

The moment we have the cursor on our player we should be able to change his path without pressing a button and without losing momentum.

geeg said:
Real stamina: both total and sprint ones, so players have a total level for the whole match and a temporally level so if you start runnig in your own half when you get to the box, your player will be exhausted.
Click to expand...

Agreed, a real-time two-tiered stamina/fatigue-system would be a huge plus.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

henrys hand said:
You've got it wrong, supercancel is the best thing because there is no other way to leave the rails.
Click to expand...

Would never work. Same reason why any true 360 degree movement, why plausible just isn't practical. You need to be able to 'lock on' to a direction at times or else you'll be all over the place.

Supercancel is a fantastic compromise as it incorporates the best of both worlds. Selectable freedom, but with a structure that makes the game playable.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Jamezinho said:
Sorry to be pessimistic but some of you guys are setting yourselves up for a big disappointment if you start believing that a new engine or sweeping changes could be on the cards this year. I hope for this as much as the next man, but knowing Konami it just won't happen.

I'm expecting gameplay refinements, added animations, increased player individuality, and improved visuals, all based on the PES2012 engine. Anything else will be a bonus.

It's best to think this way and not get your hopes up. Then you can only be pleasantly surprised if Konami do turn up the heat.
Click to expand...

I hopethey at least bring back the Aí defence of the first demo and the challenge to steal the ball, and fix the terrible pressure from AI (online specially is a double pressure noob fest again). I simply loved the way you had to play and think as a team defensively In the first demo, closing gaps and trying to keep the team In shape. It was Light years ahead of the final version.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

It needs a new "Engine" I think or at least certain elements of the current "Engine" Need over hauling like.

Collision Detection is still absolutely awful. This has been a problem now for many years and helps the CPU Cheat at times.

The way players dribble with the ball and the ball physics are way off what I personally think they should be. The ball moves like a Fuckin marble on a glass table lads!

The passing is all over the place and I dont think is due to player stats..... I think its down to the CPU controlling every outcome regardless as to what you press on the stick....

Shooting is abysmal but then the keepers stopping the shots are abysmal too! Ive seen some shockers fumbled by the keepers into their own goal or for an opposing striker to tap home! It drives me mad!

1 thing which really seriously annoys me about PES and has done for a long time now is the fact that the CPU can latch onto one of my players when im in possession of the ball. Lock onto them... you cant change direction or attempt to knock the ball away from them [Like you COULD do in real fuckin life!] and they win the ball off of you easily. You try and do the same to them and they can do some kind of magical change of direction/turn etc or you end up fouling them in frustration!!!

Sorry to go back to 2012 but these things MUST be fixed and made a LOT better for me to pick up PES again. Otherwise its back to lifeless FIFA because other than the lack of Drama which PES has always offered FIFA does play a good base game of Football. Animations are generally smooth and work well and dont fuck up the gameplay unlike PES......
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

A lot more thought is going to have to be put in to Master League structure in PES 2013.

In this years game you have the ridiculous scheduling of an International game 1 day before a league game thereby leaving your players exhausted. There should be a gap of at least 4 days between an International match and your next league game.

And I hope there's no more players bitching at you every time a match finishes. I'm getting fed up of players who say they're exhausted only for them to start whining that I'm not picking them when I do rest them!
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

dannyfc2 said:
Would never work. Same reason why any true 360 degree movement, why plausible just isn't practical. You need to be able to 'lock on' to a direction at times or else you'll be all over the place.

Supercancel is a fantastic compromise as it incorporates the best of both worlds. Selectable freedom, but with a structure that makes the game playable.
Click to expand...

There needs to be a compromise between railless freedom and rails with supercancel. It should be possible to allow input-changes to the rail used in a given situation. For example if the player sees that the rail uses a direction that is not optimal but wishes for the player to move a little bit to the left or right of the rail it should be possible without using supercancel (which means pushing two buttons and b) loses the momentum of the player).

Another thing is to stop the railed move altogether. For that supercancel is very good, but even better would be to not having to push two buttons but only through the pushing of the left stick in the opposite direction of the movement, signalling to the game that the move is not desired.
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

m.schumacher said:
It needs a new "Engine" I think or at least certain elements of the current "Engine" Need over hauling like.

Collision Detection is still absolutely awful. This has been a problem now for many years and helps the CPU Cheat at times.

The way players dribble with the ball and the ball physics are way off what I personally think they should be. The ball moves like a Fuckin marble on a glass table lads!

The passing is all over the place and I dont think is due to player stats..... I think its down to the CPU controlling every outcome regardless as to what you press on the stick....

Shooting is abysmal but then the keepers stopping the shots are abysmal too! Ive seen some shockers fumbled by the keepers into their own goal or for an opposing striker to tap home! It drives me mad!

1 thing which really seriously annoys me about PES and has done for a long time now is the fact that the CPU can latch onto one of my players when im in possession of the ball. Lock onto them... you cant change direction or attempt to knock the ball away from them [Like you COULD do in real fuckin life!] and they win the ball off of you easily. You try and do the same to them and they can do some kind of magical change of direction/turn etc or you end up fouling them in frustration!!!

Sorry to go back to 2012 but these things MUST be fixed and made a LOT better for me to pick up PES again. Otherwise its back to lifeless FIFA because other than the lack of Drama which PES has always offered FIFA does play a good base game of Football. Animations are generally smooth and work well and dont fuck up the gameplay unlike PES......
Click to expand...

You are right regarding shooting, ballphysics and goalkeepers being poor in PES 2012.

You are wrong regarding the lock-on-feature of the CPU, you can get out of that, it's not 100% locked-on, you can do it using a direction the CPU doesn't expect. Takes a bit of practice, time and luck, though.

Regarding Fifa 12, I played it for four months straight, with slider-settings it can be good, but at the end of day, as much as it gets the ballphysics right and the shooting and the animations and goalkeepers, the use of the right stick for first-touch is nice as well and the look of the night-games is nice... and the two-tiered stamina/fatigue-system is nice...

the fundamental football-aspects are not convincingly simulated. There is no momentum/inertia-model and ballcontrol is over-the-top good for every player in all situations and the pressuring is not realistically organized... so that the situations that happen in real-life-football don't happen in the game.

That's why I returned to PES 2012 and despite lots of problems the fundamental football aspects are way better implemented here. PES 2012 is imho best and most realistically playable on gamespeed -2 with 30 min time, as manual as possible and on pro-level or higher.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Lami said:
On the teaser, well like it or not, we've been complaining about their marketing strategies, and this looks more professional than anything we've seen before. Something you'd see on a Nike or Addidas ad for example.

I hope it's not just pure marketing though as talk is cheap ;)
Click to expand...

Agreed. They should be commended on this as their normal marketing output is distinctly amateurish. This Ronaldo video looks very slick and polished. Well done Konami, it's got me interested anyway.

Still, they've got plenty of time to fuck up on Tuesday and revert back to type. :))
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

@Flaw3d Genius good signature by the way.No More Excuses!
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

romagnoli said:
Investing in an engine is not just meant to pay off for the one subsequent year, but potentially 5, 6, even 7 years. FIFA 07 to FIFA 13 or 14, for example.

The truth is that most games studios don't announce that they've been working on a game until the game reaches a certain stage of production. How long was Assassin's Creed in the works? Or Uncharted? Or many other titles, particularly those that then saw a number of reuses (with upgrades) of the same engine? I'd wager that 2-3 years is typical - especially considering that, technically, one or two guys locked in a room somewhere for a year still counts as one year of development time. Look at the rumours about Konami using that Fox engine. Well, if you have one or two guys trying to tweak that engine to work for PES, that still counts as working on next-gen PES - just as much as having 300 people creating kits, stadia, chants, menus etc etc, even if the amount of man-hours differ drastically. And the creation of that engine to begin with, to get it to where it's already at, uses resources across all of Konami, rather than just PES Productions.


As for Konami not wanting to waste money over the course of 1 year, let alone 3 - couldn't you argue that this may be the case because they're also funding a longer term project? I'm just going by the logic, rather than knowing the answer or trying to twist things for the sake of optimism. If you're selling 3 million copies while reusing the same engines, with little licensing and 12 months between titles, it's hard not to think there's money being saved for something else.


I don't expect anything mindblowing this year techwise, but I'm certain something's being done for next-gen. I'm positive EA have already started work too.
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Well put, rom.

I'm sure it was the Gears of War 2 extras disc that they mentioned in passing when talking about resources/marketing that the Epic head honcho/computer whiz was busy working on Unreal Engine 4 - that was 2008. If PES in future was to be using FOX Engine ''all out'' then that engine was in work for some considerable time prior to Kojima showing it in the Konami E3 real last year and that is an engine being design with next-gen very much the focus going by recent developments.
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

henrys hand said:
You are right regarding shooting, ballphysics and goalkeepers being poor in PES 2012.

You are wrong regarding the lock-on-feature of the CPU, you can get out of that, it's not 100% locked-on, you can do it using a direction the CPU doesn't expect. Takes a bit of practice, time and luck, though.

Regarding Fifa 12, I played it for four months straight, with slider-settings it can be good, but at the end of day, as much as it gets the ballphysics right and the shooting and the animations and goalkeepers, the use of the right stick for first-touch is nice as well and the look of the night-games is nice... and the two-tiered stamina/fatigue-system is nice...

the fundamental football-aspects are not convincingly simulated. There is no momentum/inertia-model and ballcontrol is over-the-top good for every player in all situations and the pressuring is not realistically organized... so that the situations that happen in real-life-football don't happen in the game.

That's why I returned to PES 2012 and despite lots of problems the fundamental football aspects are way better implemented here. PES 2012 is imho best and most realistically playable on gamespeed -2 with 30 min time, as manual as possible and on pro-level or higher.
Click to expand...
Ive never been able to get around/away from this "Lock On" issue that ive spoken about. The CPU players home in on you like a "Missile" sometimes and even if I see an opponent coming I cant take the kinda of Avoiding action that I can in other games or at least stand a CHANCE of doing. Ive even used a player with quick speed i.e. Neymar who I signed in my ML with Newcastle. I used the BOOST dribble with R1+R2 to try and get away from an oncoming player but they STILL latch on to me, I try again im still stuck, I change direction on the stick... im still stuck... player stumbles..... they win ball and im PISSED OFF......
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Not a chance mate. Don't want to brag or abything but I have beaten 2 players on occasions with Ettori or Shimizu with nothing else but dribble and direction change.

I am still on the fence regarding defenders catching up with strikers. I think PES2012 has it nailed in the respect.if you turn and have tp collect a ball you may as well not even bother much like in real life as your oppnent will be hitting the ball at pace.

Having said that I get annoyed when my CBs or LBs try to intercept a pass but then again the Pressure, Defensive line and compactness can be adjusted to minimise this.

PES2013 does need to adress the success of the throughballs though. Even if you see it coming a mile away it still happens that your opponent pulls it off. Even witha high d-line I want the CBs to react to me pulling back on the analogue sticks.
 
For pes13 I'd like to see the huge fuck off shadows that cover half the pitch go.
It may look real but it's shite for playing.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

all i want from pes2013 is pes12 fixed nothing else nothing new cus konami will just balls it up and we will need a patch first week after release.
just fix the friggin basics player switching for a starty it was better in pes 6 than it is now!!!!
also the stupid ai of your team mates at times they have no ideas where the ball is sure they might mark a man but if the ball is near em they either stand on the spot or back away or worst run away from the ball whilst lookin at the damn thing it really pisses me off. its stupid and needs fixing pronto if this is still in pes 2013 i aint buying it defo.
in this day and age they would fix this cus the cpu players dont do it so why should yours? HA yes good old scripting to enable the cpu or your online opponent to get the ball, now i know. grrrrr seabass get it fixed!!!!
 
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"@JonMurphy_PES: Don't forget, the first PES 2013 announcement is due tomorrow, mixing live and in-game footage of CR7. #pes2013"

Tweet from Jon Murphy.
 
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