England v Croatia

Plan M

Plan M

Banned
27 September 2007
Manchester United
There is talk of McClaren playing a 4-3-3 for it.

WHY!? IT DOESN'T WORK!

For me, there is only one way England can play:


________________ Robinson/James ________________


___Richards ____ Campbell ____ Lescott ________ Bridge



Beckham ____ Hargreaves ____ Gerrard _________ J.Cole



_____________ Crouch _________ Defoe _______________


Keep it simple. Hargreaves holding, Gerrard roaming, Becks is effective on the wing as he can whip in the crosses. I would love to see West Ham's Green in goals and please, if I have included an injured player someone correct me.

We better win this. AND convincingly.
 
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why change a defence who worked very well against austria?let richards as rb and campbell and lescott as cb plus cole or Bridge as lb(i will pick Bridge anyway)
For me 433 is the best formation for this game with gerrard and lampard going forward and Hargreaves in the holding role
Defoe has never performed at international level and SWP cannot cross a ball in the box
 
I just heard that Crouch is playing as a lone-striker on Wednesday.

Why McClaren, WHY!?
 
I would like to see Green in goal but it isn't going to happen, the out of form and nervous handling Robinson will be picked.

I would prefer to keep Lescott and Campbell paired at center back, I hope Mclaren will at least get that right. If we go with that, we will get the benefit of Richards going forward and getting into good positions on the overlap at right back, something we would not get with Wes Brown. Bridge will be picked at left back, not exactly controversial, though I would prefer Shorey as he is better on the overlap and offers a differing threat to Beckham from set pieces on the other side of the pitch.

For the life of me I cannot understand why Barry could possibly be left out?

He has been the best English player over the second half of the campaign and the one English midfielder who has been reliable when it comes to not giving the ball away and retention of posession could be crucial in this match.

I think he has been man of the match in three out of the four games he played in and one of the least responsible for the problems we had in Russia.

Mclaren will probably not play him of course.

The worst case scenario would be for Mclaren to pair Gerrard and Lampard together for the 37 time. Given it has failed to work 36 times previously, failed for years and multiple tournaments and completely lacks balance and is a round pegs in square holes solution I hope Mclaren does NOT go with this.

The idea of playing these two players on the basis of them being two good individuals in attacking midfield when the system only allows for one attacking midfielder doesn’t make sense and in fact is as nonsensical as picking 11 top strikers or defenders rather than picking a team for balance. To attack more you require the ball and if you don’t have a decent defensive midfielder who can do the basics of winning the ball and retaining possession and knitting things together you end up with either Gerrard or Lampard having to sit while the other bombs on, neither being as good at doing that as Barry or Hargreaves and you also have the confusion it generates as to who goes forward and when and the potential problem of the midfield being vacated by the two of them.

If Mclaren fails to pick Barry then I at least hope that means the inclusion of Hargreaves with either Lampard or Gerrard- with the other dropped to the bench and only used at some point for replacement of the other.

The system does not allow for both players, neither does the basics of a proper defensive midfielder properly and having two attacking forced into this system does not equal more attacking threat it equals less attacking threat and less control over the ball, something shown through years of failure.

I would even rather see Hargreaves and Barry and go with a greater threat from the wings than see Gerrard and Lampard play together.

If Mclaren goes with one up front and plays Crouch we are in DEEP trouble as it will mean that Croatia can play a high back line against Crouch as there will be little to no fear of pace in behind them via a threaded ball or a ball over the top. Simply put Crouch up front alone would mean that Croatia would know that any ball in behind then carries little threat as Crouch can be caught due to his lack of pace. A high Croatian defense would mean little space for the England midfield to operate in as the space between the Croatian defensive and midfield would be less. It would also mean that Croatia could support their striker(s) and attacks higher up the pitch.

All in all the above would result in an isolated Crouch, limited space for the midfield and England often resorting to (particularly full backs) to hitting crouch with the long ball.

That mean we would lose possession very quickly and it would be a massive problem, it would be a recipe for failure.

You need the threat over the top and in behind the defense to ensure that the Coatian defense does not play high up the pitch, one option is Crouch and Defoe and certainly that might affect the line held by the Croatians…but.

Defoe likes the ball to feet and likes to run at a defense, he isn’t the type of player that likes to play on the shoulder of the last man and so I do not think he would stretch Croatia and force them to play deeper in the way that Owen would.

That is why I think that like him or not Bent should be played, Bent is the only English player that likes to play on the shoulder of the last man and has the pace that would force the Croatian defense to play a little deeper and give more space to our midfield.

You could play Bent and Crouch or Bent and Defoe, I would go with the latter, but the former could be argued also. I like the latter as I think Bent would afford more space for Defoe to pick up the ball in the greater space generated between defense and midfield and I think Defoe is more dangerous with the ball at his feet than Crouch is.

All this is academic as I think that Crouch will play no matter whether he is paired up front or not.

Crouch can score goals, 13 for England so far, but none have come against top sides, he has hit 6 of that total against Jamaca, Trinidad and Tobago and Austria.

Also the propensity for England to pump it long to him and tactically what playing him gives the opposition due to his lack of pace and mobility mean that for me...I just would not choose to pick him. Mclaren will though of course.

It could be a long night...it is a time that Mclaren will either have to make good managerial decisions or get lucky....I think the latter is more likely for him and more worring for us that this is probably true.
 
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drugfree said:
keep robinson in nets, mak e afew blunders, then we can watch euro 2008 without hearing about england during every game
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So why post in a thread entitled England V Croatia?

It is almost impossble not to be on the end of critical posts if you are English and talking of the England national team these days on this site.

If you just don't want to know about England Croatia.....go away!!!!!
 
I can see Drugfree's point. Do you get our commentators in Ireland?
 
He's bound to throw a few controversial selections in there so he can give you the "I told you so" speech if we win.
 
i like plan m's line up :)
i'd rather put shorey on the left, as vanzandt wrote, but bridge either wouldn't be that bad.

talking about the midfield couple, i totally agree with vanzandt too. i would never put gerrard and lampard together.
by doing this u kindly gift the midfield to your opponents (at least those 20 meters between the midfield line and the defensive line).
an hargraves or a barry are mostly needed, imo.

neither i think a 4-3-3 could be a wise move, cos, no matter how good hargraves is in containing, he would be alone, fighting against the whole croatian midfield (not a nice experience), coz gerrard and lampard would be playing at least 15 meters ahead of him.
and if u consider how much does richards and shorey push along the sideline, this would bring england to have just 3 players (the 2 cbs and hargraves) playing constantly behind the "ball line".

it's a basic rule: the team that holds the ball dictates the tempo of the game. Croatian football's rhythm is very different from england's one. lining up a 4-3-3 formation would mean giving to croatia the "tuning fork". now, maybe croatia isn't anymore that great team they used to be 10, 15 years ago, but allowing them to dictate the rhythm of the plays would be very dangerous, imo.

moreover, to allow richards pushing along the right side, you need someone playing ahead of him on the right side, someone who could help him by carrying the croatian rb (or the right midfielder) on the centre (leaving some free space to richards).
with a 4-3-3 formation, richards would be alone on the right side and he would have to fight against both players (the croatian right midfielder and the rb)..... not a wise move imo.

nowadays all the biggest national team plays with a defensive midfielder (italy, france, germany, portugal). i think england should follow the same path. u can't impose your (higher) pace if u don't hold the ball. that's why i think gerrard and lampard shouldn't play togheter (actually that's just one of the many reasons why i think gerrard and lampard shouldn't play together ;)).
one of the 2 central midfielders HAS to be barry or hargraves. i would pick barry, coz i think he could give much more to the team. personally i rate barry a lot. i think he could be a starter in almost every national team in europe. he's one of those "silent leaders" who don't reach the spotlight, but who works like "glue". he can put together the pieces of the puzzle and keep the distance between defence and attack short (i know the "glue comparison" is not that great, but my english doesn't allow me to find a more appropriate comparison :mrgreen:).
he's good with both foot (wich is a great quality), he has a very good short range and long range passing game and he can hold the ball...... he sometimes reminds me of frings (who is another "silent leader" i love).

talking about the attack, i'd like to see defoe playing beside crouch. i can see your points, Van, and they look pretty agreable to me.... but still i think a fast small player like defoe could be a serious threat for the croatian defensive line (which is very strong and aware, but not really fast). defoe could capture the attention of both cbs in the same time, leaving some free space to crouch.

so i'd say that, except the defoe\bent point, i'd like to see plan m's line up, with the adjustements Vanzandt suggested :).
 
So why post in a thread entitled England V Croatia?
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Well its obvious no? If paul bobbinson makes a few blunders and croatia win the england v croatia tie then england are out. meaning we dont have to hear the media and players talking themselves up again. Crouchies latest interview is saying how they are a bit hurt and want to prove they are good by winning euro08. Thats what pisses people off, and this a thread on a forum where we can air those frustrations.

It is almost impossble not to be on the end of critical posts if you are English and talking of the England national team these days on this site.
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Why do you need to repsond to any negative england comment. Oh no watch out, the xenos, the xenos....they are being negative!

Anyway, just read in interesting post in the 365 mailbox:
Why Croatia Won't Try At Wembley
Nobody wants top spot.

Why would Croatia ever want to win against England this week? Have you looked at how the groups for the Euro finals are arranged. There will be four groups, both Austria and Switzerland are seeded no. 1 as hosts. Greece are through and will also get top seeding. This leaves one top seed to fill. I believe this goes to the team with the most points in qualification. Why would you want to finish top quaifier and potentially get Italy/France/Netherlands/Portugal/Germany as the second or even third seed in your group when you can get stuck in the second grouping and have a 75% chance of getting a pretty crap team as your top seed.

It makes no sense to risk it. Look at Croatia in their last match. When they heard they had qualified at half-time they duly lost to Macedonia - phew, nearly got another three points there lads!!.

It will be very interesting to see how many of the already qualified big teams end up on the wrong side of 'shock results' this week - just to be on the safe side.
Declan (not sceptical at all), Dublin
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I dont know the draw regulations with regard to seeding and placement, but really nobody would want to be the top seed as it means you wont be playing swistria or greece. Its worth being a lesser seed just so you have a better chance to end up in one of their groups.

So a 4-5-1 is fine, keep it tight and not concede.
 
ALAIN said:
why change a defence who worked very well against austria?let richards as rb and campbell and lescott as cb plus cole or Bridge as lb(i will pick Bridge anyway)
For me 433 is the best formation for this game with gerrard and lampard going forward and Hargreaves in the holding role
Defoe has never performed at international level and SWP cannot cross a ball in the box
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Who would be your 3 up front then?

I think I would play the following:

..................Robinson

..Richards...Lescott....Campbell....A Cole/Bridge

..Beckham....Gerrard....Barry.......J Cole

.............Bent.......Crouch

Just a simple 4-4-2, don't try and complicate things
 
Tim7 said:
I think I would play the following:

..................Robinson

..Richards...Lescott....Campbell....A Cole/Bridge

..Beckham....Gerrard....Barry.......J Cole

.............Bent.......Crouch

Just a simple 4-4-2, don't try and complicate things
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Luckily england only need a point, if we had to win with that team it would be a hard nite..
 
Tim7 said:
Who would be your 3 up front then?
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I 'd go with Crouch, Becks and Cole,it's just a shame Aaron Lennon hasn't been picked otherwise i would have picked him ahead of Becks.
and shorey as left back For such an important game??:shock:
c'mon, have you seen him played recently?i saw him against The Arse one week ago and a few times before this season he was awful!would be a great mistake!!
 
My vote is with Vannizzle. It's not like there's a lot of striking talent to call on, England only need a point and at least there are still a few talented midfielders left so why not play them.

Stick Beckham on the right purely to aim at Crouch for set pieces, then Gerrard and Barry / Hargreaves in the middle and SWP or Joe Cole on the left. Lampard playing up behind Crouch.

Where's Leighton Baines at the minute? Is he injured?

Back line looks shaky though, Campbell will have his work cut out sheperding that lot!
 
Vannizzlefashizzal said:
There isnt alot of goals or pace in the team...

dont get me wrong I know injuries havent helped....

Personally I'd play for the point, 5 in MF (lampard more of a goal threat than bent)

and hate to say it but crouch upfront....
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Lampard's more of an own goal threat that's for sure. The man's been shit this season. Darren Bent knows where the goal is, he's a proven goalscorer.

Why does everybody still slate Crouch? He has shown everyone what talent he's got for such a big guy. Little and Large work up front, like Heskey and Owen. We struggle when Rooney and Owen play together.
 
vanzandt said:
So why post in a thread entitled England V Croatia?

It is almost impossble not to be on the end of critical posts if you are English and talking of the England national team these days on this site.

If you just don't want to know about England Croatia.....go away!!!!!
Click to expand...

ok then remember this post. when euro 2008 comes along, england or no england, we will hear about them, and that is why every1 hates england. blame your media. and please dont write a book reply cos i wont read it.
 
Tim7 said:
Lampard's more of an own goal threat that's for sure. The man's been shit this season. Darren Bent knows where the goal is, he's a proven goalscorer.
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Yeah of course, again a guy who jumps on the Anti LAmpard bandwagon...
so let's check the stats:
-Lampard this season:9 games in the league 4 goals + 5 assists,1 carling cup game 3 goals,
-D.Bent this season:10 games(maybe half as sub) 3 goals+ 3 assists ,1 carling cup game 0 goals
plus don't forget Lamps was out during one month..

For this kind of game Lampards is definitely more a goal threat than bent
 
drugfree said:
ok then remember this post. when euro 2008 comes along, england or no england, we will hear about them, and that is why every1 hates england. blame your media. and please dont write a book reply cos i wont read it.
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I hate the media as well I agree with you, but like I have said many times they are not a reflection of English fans/people.

More to the point, like you say you will hear about England whether they are there or not- so why want the team and all the fans to suffer, when it wont change what it is you actually do hate.

Also why post in an England thread and post what is effectively spam. I mean I would not go into a Northern Ireland, French, Spanish, Italian, Scottish etc etc thread and just post an agrravating comment- and that is all you did.

I am not post any further at this website....leaving as of now.
 
Drugfree take your anti-England rants somewhere else now mate, we have established a million times before all over this forum that England's media is the problem. :)

Back on-topic, any of you guys nervous about tonight's game?
 
ALAIN said:
and shorey as left back For such an important game??:shock:
c'mon, have you seen him played recently?i saw him against The Arse one week ago and a few times before this season he was awful!would be a great mistake!!
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honestly i saw him playing just twice this season, and he looked to me really good....
but after reading your post, i realise he might not be the best pick for england tonight..... so thanks for educating me about it, mate ;):)

good luck guys, btw;)
 
Plan M said:
I can see Drugfree's point. Do you get our commentators in Ireland?
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We get the same commentators in NORTHERN Ireland as we watch the game´s on the same stations.

I´m not being a dick about it, but i´m in Gran Canaria atm, watching Northern Ireland play Spain. and everytime we walk past a shop people call us Irish, we´re not Irish, we´re British. and we´re not from Ireland, ít´s Northern Ireland.
 
Gareth G said:
I´m not being a dick about it, but i´m in Gran Canaria atm, watching Northern Ireland play Spain. and everytime we walk past a shop people call us Irish, we´re not Irish, we´re British. and we´re not from Ireland, ít´s Northern Ireland.
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And I've no doubt you're fully up to speed with the politics of the Gran Canarians.... ;)
 
ALAIN said:
Yeah of course, again a guy who jumps on the Anti LAmpard bandwagon...
so let's check the stats:
-Lampard this season:9 games in the league 4 goals + 5 assists,1 carling cup game 3 goals,
-D.Bent this season:10 games(maybe half as sub) 3 goals+ 3 assists ,1 carling cup game 0 goals
plus don't forget Lamps was out during one month..

For this kind of game Lampards is definitely more a goal threat than bent
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Lampard and Gerrard together in England's midfield doesn't work, and Gerrard is far better, therefore there's no place for Lampard in my England team.
 
People are suggesting Lampard play a freer role up front (4-3-3 or 4-5-1), not part of a 4-4-2.

That's why Alain is comparing Lampard to Bent and Defoe. Nothing to do with Gerrard.

Unless you're suggesting that merely the sight of Frank in an England shirt suddenly prevents Gerrard from playing well?
 
I am pretty certain tonight will end 0-0, you watch in the last ten mins each team just knocking it around in their own half under no pressure. It will be cringe-worthy!

That will do though...:lol:
 
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