Rodelero's PES 2012 Playtest Impressions

I'm quoting the question I asked Romagnoli in the other thread for you to answer if you can Rod
kouroux said:
I have a question for you Rom (or anybody else who thinks he has the answer):
a)In Pes 2011 when you receive the ball and you want to control the ball towards the opposite direction of the pass (for instance you receive pass from the left and you press "right" on your direction), more often than not the player would let the ball roll through his legs and would only touch after he has turned his body 180°.IIRC, that "let the ball roll through your legs" thing used to be assigned with pressing a button (i think the acceleration button) + the opposite direction.
In Pes2011 it can become annoying when your player doesn't control the ball and just lets it run.How is this in PES2012 ?
Thanks
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I know the problem from PES 2011... Not 100% sure but I don't think I ever had it happen without me wanting it to on 2012. It happens quite a lot in 2011, so I'm pretty sure they've changed this slightly.
 
YoungGun_UK said:
A question that just came to me (Haven't played 11' in a while) is it still possible to absolutely DOMINATE possession against the AI. I remember feeling let down when being any decent team against Barcelona and me having nearly 60% all the time. When facing Barcelona you want the need to not try and "play" against them because you'll get destroyed in such a face off.
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Sorry for missing it (I've probably missed others' questions, so point me to them if I have), nothing personal ;).

Well, when I played Barcelona they dominated possession, passed the ball about a ton, and beat me into the ground with me having a couple of lucky counters as my only chances. That was pretty much how it went for everyone else when we played Marseille v Barca on Superstar. Although, one guy managed to beat them for possession first half and then got absolutely slaughtered in the second.

So take that as it is really - I'm sure it's possible to dominate possession against them... but whether you'll be doing anything useful with the ball when doing it I'm not so sure. Certainly, I felt Barcelona played more like Barcelona than ever before.
 
In 2011, you can do stupidly overpowered clearances from your own goal line into the opposition box using the manual modifier, even when facing the wrong way. Did you or anyone test this?
 
ollywolly said:
In 2011, you can do stupidly overpowered clearances from your own goal line into the opposition box using the manual modifier, even when facing the wrong way. Did you or anyone test this?
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When i asked, Adam answered me that since ball physics has changed there are no more these strange behaviours of the ball
 
Again I'm quoting a question I asked Romagnoli for you Rod
kouroux said:
The second part of your review is also terrific Rom.Thank you for all the details and for trying to give us as much (positive and negative) information regarding the game.
I have a question regarding shots.Check the goal Messi scored in the 01:00 min of the clip.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTBFS7OjTGo[/youtube]
Instead of aiming for the far post like it's "usually" done in those situations, he scored from the near post (where I think the keeper expected it the least).
Do you think it's possible to shoot like that (and then eventually score) whether it's with the plain shot button or with the finesse shot ? In Pes 2011 it's impossible to take a shot like without it becoming floaty or going wide.
Thanks in advance
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@Rom & Rod

# Question about lofted/lob through ball or short lob

In PES 2011, when you are dribbling in the sideline a little behind your CF in the middle wanting to send the lofted through ball to him, usually the ball does not go as intended in terms of power and direction. It is quite inconsistent. How is it going in PES 2012 ? do you feel more confident in executing it ?

# Battling in chasing lofted through ball/lob ball

In PES 2011, i feel the attacker does not have the same chance as the defender when both is running next to each other. I hardly find my attacker be able to use his foot, body, head or make a little jump to try to win the ball. How is the battle in this situation in PES 2012 ?

Thank you
 
Excellent write up Rod, and as I said in Rom's thread I trust your/his views a lot.

Actually can't wait for this game.
 
Best preview I've read so far, although romagnoli's was also nice.

This gets to the point, mentions the problems with the stamina/fatigue and referees.

Good work and ends with an entertaining conclusion.
 
henrys hand said:
Best preview I've read so far, although romagnoli's was also nice.

This gets to the point, mentions the problems with the stamina/fatigue and referees.

Good work and ends with an entertaining conclusion.
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Well I mention the problems with referees, and also (now) the stamina/fatigue :P. Which by the way I don't think is as important to shifting the balance of the game as others do. It should add detail and should be a consideration in the long term but you couldn't just add proper stamina to 2011 and end up with a great pressing game. No way.

But yeah, I think Rod's is a better preview as it's succinct and leaves fewer gaps. Cos I was late I was kind of intending to just talk more about the impact that particular changes have on the gameplay and the depth rather than talk about everything in the game, leaving that to everything else that's available for you to read.

I don't talk about penalties for example, because (a) they really didn't seem finished and (b) I really don't care about penalties as much as the depth of the battles between dribbler and defender or the way 2012 is the most modern football sim I've played.

But I then started writing absolutely shitloads and ended up writing twice as much as I'd intended. So it didn't really do what I wanted, in the way Rod's definitely does what he'd planned.
 
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I enjoyed reading this, great work.

This bit has me a bit worried:

The advantage rule has improved, but still calls up fouls when it should play on a little too often, and the amount of times cards are given after a break in play is minimal (I didn't see it myself but I was told these can now occur).
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I don't know how many years they are going to take fixing the advantage rule in this game!
 
romagnoli said:
Well I mention the problems with referees, and also (now) the stamina/fatigue :P. Which by the way I don't think is as important to shifting the balance of the game as others do. It should add detail and should be a consideration in the long term but you couldn't just add proper stamina to 2011 and end up with a great pressing game. No way.

But yeah, I think Rod's is a better preview as it's succinct and leaves fewer gaps. Cos I was late I was kind of intending to just talk more about the impact that particular changes have on the gameplay and the depth rather than talk about everything in the game, leaving that to everything else that's available for you to read.

I don't talk about penalties for example, because (a) they really didn't seem finished and (b) I really don't care about penalties as much as the depth of the battles between dribbler and defender or the way 2012 is the most modern football sim I've played.

But I then started writing absolutely shitloads and ended up writing twice as much as I'd intended. So it didn't really do what I wanted, in the way Rod's definitely does what he'd planned.
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is there the possibility to completely ignore the one on one situations and still win matches?
i mean, since you know how online people play do you think that these one on one situations will change the way to play the game or you feel most people will still play just by pressing R1 button and X button to press opposing players?

is still more effective to just run and press compared to the use of one on one situations?
if the game forces you to eradicate the bad online game attitude to just press and run, i think it's a major step towards a great simulation

what do you think?
 
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Ameppe said:
is there the possibility to completely ignore the one on one situations and still win matches?
i mean, since you know how online people play do you think that these one on one situations will change the way to play the game or you feel most people will still play just by pressing R1 button and X button to press opposing players?

is still more effective to just run and press compared to the use of one on one situations?
if the game forces you to eradicate the bad online game attitude to just press and run, i think it's a major step towards a great simulation

what do you think?
Click to expand...

I think people will still pressure spam, certainly online. Most people will cotton on after a month or less that they should only press in specific situations, while some will take a lot longer / never learn.

I played 2011 yesterday and I had some very tidy dribblers who were struggling far too much to lose a single presser. It was so frustrating because he was clearly just holding a button while I was having to work so hard. Even if I got past a man, I couldn't then burn away because of the catch-up.

It was annoying because in 2012 I know I could've just let him get close and then turned him and burst away, and even if he managed to hit me, he wasn't going to get the ball and I was going to get a free kick or the advantage.

Statistically it is possible that some people will pressure spam and happen to get lucky. But it's definitely a lot harder to use effectively than in 2011. The game is clearly designed to be more about containing, and to make 1v1 situations far more detailed and interesting. The friendly CPU AI automatically pushes a man up to contain the player on the ball, so that the defending side is in a position to use 2nd press at almost all times - but the point is that you have to decide when is the right time to get the result you want. So just there you can see the Konami have thought about making the pressing game integral to the experience. They've promoted it by getting teammates to contain, but they've also made it harder to then use in all the ways I described in my preview and Rod did in his.

So, do I think people will be successful with pressure spamming? Not against me they bloody won't. I'm going to tear them to shreds.
 
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romagnoli said:
Well I mention the problems with referees, and also (now) the stamina/fatigue :P. Which by the way I don't think is as important to shifting the balance of the game as others do. It should add detail and should be a consideration in the long term but you couldn't just add proper stamina to 2011 and end up with a great pressing game. No way.

But yeah, I think Rod's is a better preview as it's succinct and leaves fewer gaps. Cos I was late I was kind of intending to just talk more about the impact that particular changes have on the gameplay and the depth rather than talk about everything in the game, leaving that to everything else that's available for you to read.

I don't talk about penalties for example, because (a) they really didn't seem finished and (b) I really don't care about penalties as much as the depth of the battles between dribbler and defender or the way 2012 is the most modern football sim I've played.

But I then started writing absolutely shitloads and ended up writing twice as much as I'd intended. So it didn't really do what I wanted, in the way Rod's definitely does what he'd planned.
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Don't take it personal, your preview is also great, yours and rod's one are the best previews that can be found, much better than the previews from the professional media, it just so happens that Rod's preview is a little (slight) bit better than yours... the difference being like between Usain Bolt and Asafa Powell.:))

But I disagree with you about the importance of a realistic two-tiered-stamina/fatigue-system. I already wrote about it on kitanamedia, so instead of retyping it this is what I wrote:

Konami should really work to create a two-tiered stamina/fatigue-system that measures the individual action of the players on the pitch and calculates their shortterm-breath and mid/longterm-tiredness depending on their stats (ie. fitness), with the two tiers influencing each other.

Imho this is the most important element to a football-simulation right next to AI which they seem to have nailed this year.

With a realistic two-tiered stamina/fatigue-system the whole game would feel more alive, the players would feel like humans and therefore the immersion and connection with the team would be deeper, the senseless spam-runners would be punished and intelligent playing would be rewarded... and exchanging three players during the match would make sense and have an immediate effect.

I know I sound like a broken record because I write again and again about it, but I do it because it's so very important to me and because I'm quite a bit surprised that it wasn't improved in the preview-code of PES 2012.

Jon Murphy though told in some twitters that Konami are still working on this, so there is a little hope that the system just didn't make the cut for preview-code and will be added later before the game gets gold.

It's not as if this is rocket-science, Alan told me that in the Wii-version of PES Konami have implemented such a realistic two-tiered stamina/fatigue-system, so the task for Konami would merely be to transfer that system from the Wii-version to the PS3/xbox360-versions.
 
If you press the secondary pressure button, will your team mate go homing missile directly to the ball or will he contain depending on the situation? Did any of you guys notice anything about this?
 
Secondary press is the same as last year in terms of what the button does. But this is the problem with trying to explain things in words - people will read that and think that swapping it for a 2nd 'contain' would be better, because after all 2nd press was too powerful in 2011, right?

But it's not about singular statements like that. It's about everything I described when it comes to pressing.

With stamina, I just don't think it should ever be used as THE main way of balancing pressure or the rest of the game. Adding a proper stamina system to PES 2011 and not doing anything else would have proved that comprehensively. I'm all for a double tier setup but stamina not nearly as important to fixing the pressure issues of 2011 as people think, and I wouldn't swap out any of the changes in exchange for stamina. I can wait for 2013 for a second tier; just get the first tier working first.
 
romagnoli said:
I think people will still pressure spam, certainly online. Most people will cotton on after a month or less that they should only press in specific situations, while some will take a lot longer / never learn.

I played 2011 yesterday and I had some very tidy dribblers who were struggling far too much to lose a single presser. It was so frustrating because he was clearly just holding a button while I was having to work so hard. Even if I got past a man, I couldn't then burn away because of the catch-up.

It was annoying because in 2012 I know I could've just let him get close and then turned him and burst away, and even if he managed to hit me, he wasn't going to get the ball and I was going to get a free kick or the advantage.

Statistically it is possible that some people will pressure spam and happen to get lucky. But it's definitely a lot harder to use effectively than in 2011. The game is clearly designed to be more about containing, and to make 1v1 situations far more detailed and interesting. The friendly CPU AI automatically pushes a man up to contain the player on the ball, so that the defending side is in a position to use 2nd press at almost all times - but the point is that you have to decide when is the right time to get the result you want. So just there you can see the Konami have thought about making the pressing game integral to the experience. They've promoted it by getting teammates to contain, but they've also made it harder to then use in all the ways I described in my preview and Rod did in his.

So, do I think people will be successful with pressure spamming? Not against me they bloody won't. I'm going to tear them to shreds.
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Thanks for your answer
it's encouraging even if it's not completely reassuring
i guess we have to try it online to have the final answer
 
~turinski! said:
Hello Rodelero, very well explained everything in first post and it was a great read. Can you tell me more about new stats, especially about new Explosive Play stat, and new Long Range Drive ability? I read that Long Range Drive card enables some amazing dipping shots, so I am interested about it, have you played with a player who has it? If you did please reply. :)
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Can you answer please? :D
 
Ameppe said:
is there the possibility to completely ignore the one on one situations and still win matches?
i mean, since you know how online people play do you think that these one on one situations will change the way to play the game or you feel most people will still play just by pressing R1 button and X button to press opposing players?

is still more effective to just run and press compared to the use of one on one situations?
if the game forces you to eradicate the bad online game attitude to just press and run, i think it's a major step towards a great simulation
what do you think?
Click to expand...

Same opinion here.
 
romagnoli said:
Secondary press is the same as last year in terms of what the button does. But this is the problem with trying to explain things in words - people will read that and think that swapping it for a 2nd 'contain' would be better, because after all 2nd press was too powerful in 2011, right?

But it's not about singular statements like that. It's about everything I described when it comes to pressing.

With stamina, I just don't think it should ever be used as THE main way of balancing pressure or the rest of the game. Adding a proper stamina system to PES 2011 and not doing anything else would have proved that comprehensively. I'm all for a double tier setup but stamina not nearly as important to fixing the pressure issues of 2011 as people think, and I wouldn't swap out any of the changes in exchange for stamina. I can wait for 2013 for a second tier; just get the first tier working first.
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I agree completely rod.

The lack of a proper staminia/fatigue system was not the only thing that encouraged people to press you the whole match, it's a set of issues in some aspects that encouraged them to do it, and thank God Konami have been working in pes 2012 to sort them out. So if you don't mind let me list some of these minor but annoying issues:

- lack of smoother turns animations and more responsive controllers.
- very poor physics contatcs: players are not able to use their arms and their backs to hold the ball.
- VERY lenient refs: tackling from behind is as effective as tackling in front of the player, almost no fouls are called. you can press your opponent quickly and agressively, and the possibility of concede fouls is too low
- ridiculous stumbling animations that happens too often and make you totally loose the controll of the players for more than 3 secounds, and again no foul being rewarded.
- AI teammates: one of the most important one. players don't interpretate the urgency and the risk of loosing possession and therefore they don't get close to the ball carrier, don't move to gaps or to safe spaces and etc.

All these issues contributed to tha insane double pressure noob becomes very effective.

Pes 2012 seems to be very improved in all these aspects, so counter pressure whores will be apparently way easier. But of course for me a better fatigue system with much more impact is always welcome.

Sorry for my english.
 
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