JustPES - All your PES/WE tactical discussions

B

bluchampblogger

League 2
6 June 2009
Winning Eleven 2011 (as well as PES 2011) is a great game. This is also what I call a 'sandbox game'. This game has a lot of potential and I don't mean for a greater WE/PES 2012. I think, even within WE/PES 2011, there is a lot of unearthed potential and most of it can be brought out by gameplay editing.

By game play editing, I'm not referring to player attribute values. Finally, I think we have a pro evo game that does not require any editing of player attribute values but what needs improvement is the team tactics.

It's like Konami put in random values for all the team tactics options such as game style, management edit etc. This means though there is potential, the unedited game may not be very realistic wrto to how the teams play. From Man Utd to Real Madrid, when they're leading they're set to play 'long ball'. Hardly realistic! The beauty is, with the options available, actually you can make the AI Barca play like the real life Barca. You can make AI Stoke City play like Stoke City (no disrespect, just a contrast in styles). But setting these things right needs a lot of intelligent effort.

What I want us to do, as a project, understand how each team plays, understand how these tactical options work in the game and edit the tactical options for each team so the game plays like REAL FOOTBALL.

In order to do this in one place, I've created this blog - www.justpes.com - where I post articles on tactical settings, team styles etc per team, per league and per setting. I don't claim to be an expert but the very idea of the blog is to have people like you come over and discuss tactics, test and implement them so we can enjoy the full potential of this fantastic game!
 
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Great initiative!

Just one thing. I wonder if the changes we make to teams tactics aren't in overturned in ML, like formations? Teams in ML always change to one of the default formations and while this is nice to make the game more dynamic it also makes works like yours a bit useless.
 
I spent a couple of hours yesterday in coach mode playing about with the team style settings and I am very impressed with the effect they have. You can really get teams playing in individual ways and match it to the real life counter part.

I think having Man U & Madrid set to long ball when leading is not as unrealistic as you may think. The name of the long ball strategy is a little misleading, what it does is make the team drop back when the opponent is in possession. Once you have regained possession the team will push forward quickly giving you the option to play long balls out to attacking players and break quickly. I see this as more of a quick counter strategy.
As with "long ball" not all the strategy names are as suited to that particualr strategy as they might be. I found that if you go into the menu where you can assign strategies to a button, you can see a visual demonstration of what that strategy will do to your team, very useful.
 
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Something you also have to watch out for is strategies contradicting your team style or using strategies that match your team style.
For example if you have your pressing & player support set near 20 there is no point using "quick counter" as it does the same thing.
 
Ern Dog said:
Something you also have to watch out for is strategies contradicting your team style or using strategies that match your team style.
For example if you have your pressing & player support set near 20 there is no point using "quick counter" as it does the same thing.
Click to expand...

That's right. I've posted a new article on the effect of 'pressure' in team style sliders. The default slider for pressure makes the game easy and also a bit rushed. Try those suggestions and see if they work for you.

And yes, I've changed the look n feel of the blog too!
 
Really enjoy reading your blog mate. I give it a quick try and I was really impressed by the way Barca plays compared to the old settings. Really good stuff here! I'm looking forward to new teams blu :BOP:
 
Mark said:
Really enjoy reading your blog mate. I give it a quick try and I was really impressed by the way Barca plays compared to the old settings. Really good stuff here! I'm looking forward to new teams blu :BOP:
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Thanks Mark. Needless to say, these tactical settings do need to further evolve before we settle with the final ones. I'm glad that you're liking the suggested settings for Barca. More team settings and PES/WE tactical concepts coming up. Stay tuned :)
 
bluchampblogger said:
Winning Eleven 2011 (as well as PES 2011) is a great game. This is also what I call a 'sandbox game'. This game has a lot of potential and I don't mean for a greater WE/PES 2012. I think, even within WE/PES 2011, there is a lot of unearthed potential and most of it can be brought out by gameplay editing.

By game play editing, I'm not referring to player attribute values. Finally, I think we have a pro evo game that does not require any editing of player attribute values but what needs improvement is the team tactics.

It's like Konami put in random values for all the team tactics options such as game style, management edit etc. This means though there is potential, the unedited game may not be very realistic wrto to how the teams play. From Man Utd to Real Madrid, when they're leading they're set to play 'long ball'. Hardly realistic! The beauty is, with the options available, actually you can make the AI Barca play like the real life Barca. You can make AI Stoke City play like Stoke City (no disrespect, just a contrast in styles). But setting these things right needs a lot of intelligent effort.

What I want us to do, as a project, understand how each team plays, understand how these tactical options work in the game and edit the tactical options for each team so the game plays like REAL FOOTBALL.

In order to do this in one place, I've created this blog - www.justpes.com - where I post articles on tactical settings, team styles etc per team, per league and per setting. I don't claim to be an expert but the very idea of the blog is to have people like you come over and discuss tactics, test and implement them so we can enjoy the full potential of this fantastic game!
Click to expand...

Great stuff bud. ;)
 
OK, my sleep pattern is screwed up and i've spent time tinkering with bluchamps and manne's suggestions for Barca's tactics.

I'll upload the formation i've assigned them to have later today but I have to say it's mind blowing really what you can do with tactics on this game!

I don't think i've ever been dominated by one team in a match (15 minute) so comprehensively in any game!
 
bluchamp - I already registered and posted on your blog, top work you've done there. I've been going through some teams and seeing how a good passing side like FC Twente have the default long ball/quick counter assigned to them makes me cringe, not to mention poor stats and outdated lineup. Therefore I'll be following your blog with above average interest and I'll join the discussions as soon as I have a better understanding of how the sliders work, what effect they have on how my team behave. I'm experimenting with them as we speak and spent more time tweaking sliders than playing the actual game!

Keep up the good work my friend:WORSHIP:
 
if someone releases an option file with these tactics for the specific teams within the major leagues implemented, it might just be the best ever option file released.

good job mate.
 
What I'm a little confused about is that there are 3 screens where we can alter tactics; strategy screen, team style screen and management edit screen. I guess management edit tactics take preference because these are dependent on the time and score in the game, which makes them seem more important. Doesn't this make some options like player support, attacking style and pressing pretty redundant in the team style screen though? and then what happens when we press one of the button assigned strategies from the strategy screen? does this then trump everything else?
I'm confusing myself even trying to explain this. but basically i'm confused at what happens when tactics might be conflicting, which one takes preference, or does the AI just get confused as if Graeme Souness was their manager?
 
Nice work blu. You obviously have the Chinese version of Winning Eleven. What are the commentary language options? Do you find the game to be like the Japanese demo?
 
sattan_hussein said:
Great initiative!

Just one thing. I wonder if the changes we make to teams tactics aren't in overturned in ML, like formations? Teams in ML always change to one of the default formations and while this is nice to make the game more dynamic it also makes works like yours a bit useless.
Click to expand...

Is this true? I've bought the game purely for master league mode. So editing the tactics would be a waste of time if they don't get used in ML mode? Some one confirm please :)
 
ollywolly said:
What I'm a little confused about is that there are 3 screens where we can alter tactics; strategy screen, team style screen and management edit screen. I guess management edit tactics take preference because these are dependent on the time and score in the game, which makes them seem more important. Doesn't this make some options like player support, attacking style and pressing pretty redundant in the team style screen though? and then what happens when we press one of the button assigned strategies from the strategy screen? does this then trump everything else?
I'm confusing myself even trying to explain this. but basically i'm confused at what happens when tactics might be conflicting, which one takes preference, or does the AI just get confused as if Graeme Souness was their manager?
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there is no need for man. edit, u dont have to set it up
its mainly for loosing/leading at the end of the match
tactics like all out attack or poss. def
so u dont have to go in menu manually(this is made mainly for online thats my oppinion)

what happens if u do the oppossite via select + "X" i dont know

but better not do it lol
 
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RIGHT LET'S GET STARTED!

The definitive BARCELONA formation here:

Now if you play against Barca with their default formations and tactics. they are tough to beat but they are very flawed and vulnerable!

Basically their formation and tactics are all set up too generically with no real thought put into them! So as long as you have a good team you should beat them!

Now i did a load of experiments watching them vs the AI and tweaking their formations and tactics and this is the lovely result at the end of it:

I played Barcelona vs me (Aston Villa) here are the stats at the final whistle (15 minute match top player)
pes20112010102510024273.png

By klash69 at 2010-11-02
Didn't even have a shot! I know they where that much in control it was mindblowing! I had to foul them a hell of a lot to try keep them at bay, Villa eventually got injured thank god :LOL:

Now here's the tactics and formation i assigned them, looks unorthodox and a bit mad but this shows the depth and freedom given to you by the tactics system:

Formation.
pes20112010102509315356.png

By klash69 at 2010-11-02
Why so high up the pitch? the whereabouts of your positioning dictate where the players are situated when they have the ball! One interesting thing also is that no matter how far up the pitch you put your Full backs the defense will ALWAYS work together with the center backs and will always drop back to hold a line!

IMPORTANTLY You need to place Dani Alves right on the halfway line but make sure he’s set as a Right Back, if you player him that far up the pitch he will quite literally run forward to support every single attack just like in real life!

With the tactics


Make sure the team management playing styles are set the ‘Possession game defensive’ It’s the key tactical factor for this team, with the default settings they play the ball forward too much and don’t look to dominate the game and conserve possession, instead try and blow you away with slick attacking minded passing. With this setting they play the ball around and take their time and probe, they will have the ball for large parts of the game and will be hard to disposes from it!

Also a crucial reason for placing them this high up is to get them to effectively play the high line game, their pressure game is a lot more effective since they are all so close together and they contain you so much they give you 0 time on the ball, just like in real life, they force you into mistakes by making you play at a lighting speed which just isn’t possible!

Many thanks to Bluchamp and mame as I looked at their formulas and tweaked them using CPU vs CPU games to create this!

Hopefully we can get bluchamp to set his website up like the custom tactics project was last year! Hoping to see others out there with more tactical contributions :)
 
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Great stuff klashman, that screenshot is quality lol total domination. And thats how it should be with these two sides. Wondering if you can tip me on a few things below.

As this is a tactics thread, thought I would post some of my comments on here. I've started ML with default players. Now these players aren't great so I really feel the need to play 3 upfront to get any chances. I pushed the two CF's right to the top and have a central SS. One problem i'm seeing is that the forwards don't make enough forward runs. I can't find the option to put a FWD arrow (think its been deleted. Any way to solve this?

2nd issue is the after effect of the attack and I lose the ball. My midfield seems to be so open. CPU does through ball, bang, goal. I set my players to attack wide because I have WB's running up. Also have the players close together to do quick fluid passing. What is an ideal value for player support for this type of formation? Bear in mind I want to attack, however not be ripped a new A hole if I lose the ball lol.

P.S love tactics thread :)
 
Only problem of course is that in a league the CPU will probably ditch these tactics - at least the player positions - and come out with Dani Alves at left back and Maxwell at right back, Thiago playing as the anchor man, etc.

Could you start a Spanish league as someone other than Barcelona, and keep restarting until you get Barca as your first or second fixture, so you can try this out? It would be good to know how much of this is carried over into league and ML modes.
 
Pere Ubu said:
Only problem of course is that in a league the CPU will probably ditch these tactics - at least the player positions - and come out with Dani Alves at left back and Maxwell at right back, Thiago playing as the anchor man, etc.

Could you start a Spanish league as someone other than Barcelona, and keep restarting until you get Barca as your first or second fixture, so you can try this out? It would be good to know how much of this is carried over into league and ML modes.
Click to expand...

From what i've seen the CPU normally keep the default formations and tactics, it's the players they maneuver around! Which shouldn't be too much of a problem!

Also The game plays much better with many teams if you just delete all the team management tactics! They play with a lot more freedom!
 
Pere Ubu said:
Only problem of course is that in a league the CPU will probably ditch these tactics - at least the player positions - and come out with Dani Alves at left back and Maxwell at right back, Thiago playing as the anchor man, etc.

Could you start a Spanish league as someone other than Barcelona, and keep restarting until you get Barca as your first or second fixture, so you can try this out? It would be good to know how much of this is carried over into league and ML modes.
Click to expand...

Pere i can confirm the CPU do keep their tactics in Master League, BUT they do although play players in different positions etc..
 
klashman69 said:
Pere i can confirm the CPU do keep their tactics in Master League, BUT they do although play players in different positions etc..
Click to expand...

That's good.

It's probably a good idea to go through the players in each team and correct "side" settings, e.g. Dani Alves and Maxwell are listed as playing "both sides", so for some reason the cpu likes to put them on the wrong sides in league mode. They got this partly right by allowing "left-footed / right side" etc, so inverted wingers like Robben will be played on the correct wing, but it's still a bit weird and random with some players. There are some full backs who regularly play both left back and right back, but not many.

A lot of players are listed as being able to play numerous positions, which is good in a way because it allows minor formation tweaking (bringing a WF back to play SMF and giving him more defensive duties, for example), but it can result in some crazy computer line-ups. I came up against Valencia in league mode and they were playing 4-1-4-1 (one of the few formations they haven't tried this year) with Jeremy Mathieu as the lone holding midfielder. Mathieu is a left back and occasional left winger, he's never played DMF in his life and hasn't played CMF since he was at Sochaux in the French league years ago. It's just daft, and it needs toning down.
 
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I know, you see some right madness with the CPU

I've just revamped the tactics for the whole premierleague and started a ML with West Brom

To show just how much harder it's become and the extent of my struggles I'm in mid october and i haven't even scored a GOAL away from home and have only FINALLY won my first game vs West Ham 2-0!

Again a key element is to turn off most of the Management tactics, teams play slower and keep possession more, individuality is enhanced. Basically Konami assigned too many generic tactics for teams! Many of them not suiting the team at all, making them easy to beat!
 
Steekbal said:
Looks interesting, I'll try this out and report back how it goes.
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Just set up the Barça tactics and started a quick El Classico game at the Bernabeu with me playing as Real Madrid. Top Player, 15 minute game, green arrows.

I have to say I'm reasonably impressed. I think this has to be the first time ever I got outpossessed by the AI with me having 44 to their 56. In the beginning I was blown away by their passing but I quickly adjusted my tactics to counter attack with a very deep and narrow defense. After that the game was a real breeze (perhaps a bit too easy) with me soaking up the pressure and hitting quick long balls over the top and eventually I got away with a 2-0 win, despite the AI having the majority of possession and shots on target as well (6 to 8).

Of course PES has always been relatively easy with top teams so after the Utrecht game I'll play a game of Barcelona v Espanyol to see how that pans out. I have very high hopes!
 
Steekbal said:
Just set up the Barça tactics and started a quick El Classico game at the Bernabeu with me playing as Real Madrid. Top Player, 15 minute game, green arrows.

I have to say I'm reasonably impressed. I think this has to be the first time ever I got outpossessed by the AI with me having 44 to their 56. In the beginning I was blown away by their passing but I quickly adjusted my tactics to counter attack with a very deep and narrow defense. After that the game was a real breeze (perhaps a bit too easy) with me soaking up the pressure and hitting quick long balls over the top and eventually I got away with a 2-0 win, despite the AI having the majority of possession and shots on target as well (6 to 8).

Of course PES has always been relatively easy with top teams so after the Utrecht game I'll play a game of Barcelona v Espanyol to see how that pans out. I have very high hopes!
Click to expand...

Well you should be able to beat anyone using a top team. Especially madrid. It's using the smaller teams which is the key thing for these tactics. I mean it will still make the game much harder even when using the top teams though!

Update with West Brom. The only goal i've scored away from goals has a been a comedy own goal. Still haven't even picked up a point away from home :CONFUSE:
 
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Been playing around with Stoke in Coach mode to get the AI to play like real life. There's a crazy statistic that in something like 85 Premier League games, Stoke have never had the majority of possession.

My initial suggestions for Stoke or any long ball team is to set their main tactics as all out attack. Typical Konami, something always gets lost in translation. With this tactic set, the AI will play a lot of long aerial balls. So assign this tactic to each of the 4 buttons, because these are what the AI uses. You could also set it in team management screen.

Other important values.
Support range - should be 20, so players play far away from each other, meaning more long balls.
Player support - should be low or medium to make sure not too many players bomb forward.
Position switch - one of the 'never' values
Pressing - should be tight, Stoke are quite aggressive
Defensive line - deep, creating more space between def and att, meaning more long balls

Not too sure on what compactness and attacking style suits Stoke best yet.
Formation should be standard 442 with attackers high up and players spread out as much as possible.
Also make sure to set dangerous defenders like Huth and Shawcross to attack at set pieces, as this is one of Stoke's main weapons.

A minor disappointment I came across is that you can't set throw in takers for the CPU. Its always the wide men taking them and even though they will launch long throws, it would be so much better if you could set Delap to take them.

Anyway these tactics are not definitive and any feedback for things to tweak is much appreciated. I think all out attack is the key however, it certainly leads to less passing and more hoofing. 'ave it! *

*(you may need to be english to understand hoofing and 'ave it!)
 
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