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Help me get a life/job (please) - WARNING, CONTAINS LIFE STORY

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Chris Davies, 12 March 2006.

  1. Chris Davies

    Chris Davies Chief PESsimist Staff

    14 May 2003
    Tranmere Rovers
    Well, I'm 21 years old, I've been in and out of awful, petty little jobs for a good few years now, and I've come to a crossroads in my life. Having been depressed recently, I've decided I need to change my life, a lot, in order to develop any kind of self-respect. Long story short, I ended school with no qualifications, went to college and got:

    • National Diploma in Computing
    • ECDL
    • GNVQ ICT Intermediate (with merit)
    • Key Skills Information Technology (level 2)
    • Key Skills English (level 2)
    • Key Skills Maths (level 2)
    • Key Skills Communications (level 2)
    • GCSE English (C)
    • GCSE Maths (C)
    After getting the "National Diploma in Computing" after three years of college, I was desperate to get out. The teachers were giving me coursework that I knew inside-out (I realise they have to, I'm not saying I'm bigger or more clever than anybody else, it was just incredibly frustrating having to write 72 pages about something you've done 720 times). Plus, the people on the courses I were on were an absolute fucking nightmare. Every one of the scallies bar one was there to get a shag, annoy the teachers non-stop or have shelter from the rain for a few hours before crossing the road and going to the pub, and I didn't get on with any of them. The one guy who was there to do work was a total knob, constantly talking about how many millions he was going to earn after college, it was horrible and I couldn't wait to get out of there and get a job.

    Well, I tried for years. I started going for graphics design jobs - something I'd done since I was 13 (editing FIFA games and later on PES games). I had no qualifications in it, but it was my dream job, apart from one which I always discounted and will mention shortly. I found ONE place who would have me and train me up, and they expected me to work with chemicals that burned the skin right off your hands, which they didn't tell me until I'd started the job. Sorry, I'm desperate for work and everything, but no.

    Then I started looking for anything on computers. Every job I applied for I was instantly rejected for because of a "lack of experience", and the ones I did get interviews for I didn't get because of a lack of experience and Uni stories to speak of.

    Finally, I was applying for jobs at petrol stations, and now I'm at the point where the guys at the JobCentre look at me and think "he's not after a job, he's just a scrounger", and it's the most dirty, depressing feeling in the world, and I've officially had enough.

    There's been five jobs I've always wanted to do but never considered seriously because of a lack of talent (I can fix PCs no problem, but with no previous experience or Uni stuff I'm dead in the water). They are, in no particular order: graphics designer, teacher, policeman, football manager, and journalist. I'm facing the fact that I'm going to have to go back to college, but I now believe that to get ANY kind of decent job, I'm going to have to go to Uni. Not only can I not afford that, but the idea TERRIFIES me. I'm a very anti-social person, I don't seem to get along with most people. I don't see much joy in getting drunk and puking, or taking drugs, or taking so much work home that I don't have time to crap. And so... I really have no fucking clue what to do.

    Graphics designer I don't think I'm anywhere near talented enough to do, teacher would involve Uni, policeman you need to be fit for, football manager (my biggest ambition since before I can remember) is just a completely impossible aim obviously (as much as I believe I'm tactically sound, you really need to be an ex-player for a start, and everything else), and journalist, again, would require me to go to Uni.

    I have no frigging idea what to do, what I'm going to do with my life or anything. Any advice, at ALL, would be appreciated. Even stories you can share of a similar situation would give me hope. I realise I'm going to get the piss royally ripped out of me for starting such a thread ("why are you asking all this on a football forum" and "you want to be a WHAT"), but thank you for reading however much you managed to read.
     
    Last edited: 12 March 2006
  2. Super Quinninho

    Super Quinninho Sunderland A.F.C

    11 March 2003
    Klaxonville
    Sunderland A.F.C
    Get yourself to uni mate, if your prepared to leave with about 10k in debt youll never have a better time in your life

    I 99% guarantee when you leave you will be more confident, more outgoing, have more friends and have many experiences to look back fondly on when your older.

    As youve realised, many people look for a degree or experience when hiring so unless you have any you have to get by on charisma (ie blagging it) alone.

    Im graduating in 3 months and hope to do graphic design, website design or design interactive applications. I could even start my own thing up, having a degree opens a lot of doors

    You want to enrol at uni and really stick at it, you may want to try and get in touch with proffesional graphic designers on a forum or something and see what they did at your age and any reccomendations they have for you? something that i did and was very helpful

    :)
     
  3. foxtrot

    foxtrot Shoe bomber

    24 December 2002
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Rangers FC
    Seriously. Go to uni. You don't have to get drunk or take drugs when you're a student.

    And the debt? I'm at £10k and counting. Have a year left at uni... 2 if I stay on for honours. The rate at which you pay it back though is incredible. You're as well trying to get as much as you can because in later life, you won't be getting such a great rate from a bank. You'll probably never pay it off and you don't have to start until you're earning over £15k a year or something. Even then it's like £4 a week!

    You have to try. :)
     
  4. gerd

    gerd Retired Footballer

    8 January 2002
    Over the moon
    KRC Genk, Spurs
    Chris, your story reminds me of my own story some 18 years ago.
    I went to university and decided to study something fucking useless: Chinese and Japanese. After being graduated i went to China for 8 months and Japan 4 months.

    Then it was time to search a job but by that time it was useless to know Chinese because after the Tian-An Men massacre China was isolated and in the same year the Iron Curtain fell so all the business corporations were totally focussed on Eastern Europe...i started to accept any kind of stupid job (and yes they were stupid) became utterly depressed, did some pretty stupid things and then decided to become civil servant (the one job i would never have considered doing when i was 18).
    Fifteen years on i'm a very happy person, i have a dream job and am rather successful in it. I'm responsable for quite a lot of people...

    My message is: don't give up...

    Just like you i wanted to become a journalist and started writing letters to all sorts of media. What i should have done is making articles, what a friend of me did (without qualifications): he is now a well known journalist...

    Maybe te situation in the UK is different, but one advice: just start making articles if your good papers or other media will accept them...they like working with "cheap" free lancers...

    Good luck...
     
  5. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Banned

    12 February 2005
    London
    I'm kind of in a similar position as you. I also left school without any qualification (just pure E’s and F’s!). Went to college, got a distinction in GNVQ ICT Foundation and a merit in GNVQ ICT Intermediate…now i'm doing IT Software Development and after that i have to go another TWO years in College (:( ), plus i've got a LONG shit job in the weekends that pay peanuts!

    I'm also not too sure with my direction in life! I want to be a games programmer, but I can’t seem to come across anyway I’m going to get through that kind of field, if you know what I mean...just like you I don’t think I’ve got the talent for the job!

    You were talking about you are a anti-social person...I think if you find it hard to get along with most people that’s fine, just find someone that suits you and that’s in your mould.

    About Uni...I’m not to sure about that!

    Anyways try not get your head filled up with any unnecessary baggage, just relax for a while and think things through! If you keep on worrying yourself you might end up in the mad house lol
     
  6. PetrovLFC

    PetrovLFC Raul!

    13 March 2005
    NW London
    Liverpool
    Damn I can really identify with you, just younger and perhaps an eye opener for me

    I know what you mean with regards to Colleges being full of alcohol, sex driven, jack the lad types. Not to mention they are all middle class, stuck up, spoilt kids who try and act out American Highschool scenarios every day. I probably only like about 5 or 6 folk out (1 of them in particular:( ) of the 200+ .Gone are the days of clean, honest fun, playing footie in the playground etc. Maybe its just me who hasn't grown up, who knows.

    I'm finding Sixth Form very hard at the moment, and really miss the days of high-school. I'm studying at home and have had several depressive episodes. Thankfully I have a good base of qualifications (12 A-C gcse's), and have some AS's to fall back on, but I have no direction in my life at the moment. Depression really sucks out any enthusiasm for anything, even PES. At his rate I'll probably end up with just the 1 A-Level, although I guess I can thank myself lucky for that.

    Uni is a tricky one. I wouldn't know what its like, but I hear lots of conflicting stories about the social side of it, the debt, is it actually worth it, getting pipped to a job just because the other candidate has more 'experience' I can't see myself enjoying University, and you sound like me....it just seems very daunting, like you've said. It was hard enough leaving behind high school friends and moving to a completley different sixth form, where I knew nobody, low on confidence, serverely fatigued etc

    You've mentioned you've got over your depression. Thats the first step, before you slide back in to it again, I think its best to be pro-active. Graphics Designer? DO anything you can to reach that target.
     
    Last edited: 13 March 2006
  7. Chris Davies

    Chris Davies Chief PESsimist Staff

    14 May 2003
    Tranmere Rovers
    The debt stuff really scares me. I mean, Foxtrot has said below he's at £10,000 in debt and counting. I've never, ever been in debt or had a loan or used credit in my life. I don't even have a grand to my name at the moment, so £10,000 to me is more than my tiny little mind can compute. That scares the hell out of me. And maybe it is easily repayable when you're in a higher-paying job, but what if you don't get one? What happens if I go to Uni and other people get the jobs ahead of me all the time because of their experience?

    I actually know a few graphics designers, two in particular are doing very, very well for themselves. But most of them got there by accident, pretty much. Started in a lower job at the company doing something completely different, went for a graphics job despite having no previous experience, got the job, learned, got a higher-up job again, etc... No qualifications involved, literally. Which makes me so fucking jealous you wouldn't BELIEVE, haha. Everyone who I seem to met professionally says that experience is greater than qualifications. But getting that experience seems to be a nightmare.

    That scares the hell out of me. You're right, I "have to try", but if I get £10k in debt and don't get the jobs I thought I would get, which is what happened after college, I've got £10k to pay back that I'm never going to be able to afford. I've never been in debt to anyone and the idea really does petrify me.

    Thank you so much for your story. Most of the people I know who are successful in their line of work have a very similar story, they've got there not through qualifications, but through demonstration of their work. The thing is though, several places have examples of my work, my writing work and my graphics work, but I haven't had any job offers thrown my way - which leads me to believe that A) I'm not talented enough, or B) I don't have enough qualifications on my CV. I write an article at least once a week and I use Adobe Photoshop at least once a day. But if I've not got anywhere so far, I really, really can't imagine that I'm talented enough to get anywhere with it.

    EXACTLY how I feel, down to the ground. I don't expect everyone to be angels all of the time... Thing is, each to their own - whatever anyone chooses to do with their life is fine with me, I mean it must be ten million times better going and socialising and getting pissed than sitting in-front of a computer playing Football Manager and Ghost Recon. But it's the fact that when you're in lessons (or whatever they call them at college and Uni now), I find it impossible to take anything in if the guy is stopping every five minutes to say "WILL YOU FUCKING SHUT UP!!", which was the case in college. And at the beginning of each year they always said to me "don't worry, if anyone fucks around then they'll be out" - everyone who was there at the start of the courses was there at the end. In one year, 10% passed, the rest failed.

    You've got something there I really wish I had. I should imagine it would help me out a lot at the moment to have a base of qualifications like that. The depression does suck, and it takes the fun out of everything. I mean, I feel like I'm having a mid-life crisis and I'm 21. I'm asking myself what more is there to life, and yet I've supposedly "got so much ahead of me". It doesn't help that a lot of my family are quite pressuring about trying to get me a job, which is great in the sense that they want to help, but not in the sense that it makes you feel worthless a lot of the time. I want to make it happen now, I'm hungry for it. But I don't know if I'm talented enough, or even what to do. The things that give me the most pleasure are undoubtedly some of the hardest professions to get into. Not rocket-science, admittedly, but... The things that give me the most pleasure, are football, Pro Evo and kids (not in a paedo way before anyone quotes that). Football coaching would be a nightmare to get anywhere with when there's so many talented people around, I'm no programmer and I couldn't do what the geniuses in Japan do with PES, and teaching would involve more of what I endured in my college days.

    I'm trying so hard not to sound like a posh, better-than-them prick, Jesus... I just don't fit in. They're not the problem, I am!!

    EXACTLY how I feel. Especially the "conflicting stories". My sister (bitch! ;)) went through Uni and is now in a moderately-well-paid job. She got there through Uni and without it wouldn't be where she is. She recommends it to the point of forcing it down my throat. Her fiancée however has a much better-paid job, very high up at a globally-known computer company. And how did he get there? No qualifications, no nothing, just walked into a building and said "any computers or components that you can't fix, give them to me and I'll fix them". He then got promoted, promoted again and promoted again, until he got as high as he is now.

    That says to me, that a lot of it is about luck. Which is a bastard, because I'm running low on that lately.

    I never really made friends at college so thankfully that's one problem I don't have, haha.

    I'm not quite over the depression yet, especially seeing as I have no idea which avenue to go down. It's a lonely time, especially at night when everywhere is black and all that you can hear in your head is "failure, what are you going to do tomorrow?". However, I'll just have to have a long hard think about what path to pursue, and then set out on it.

    I think I'm already there mate... :pirat:

    THANK YOU FOR ALL OF YOUR HELP GUYS. Seriously, this has been a massive help. I'm still terrified at the mere thought of University, but it looks like I face a choice of working on youth coach qualifications, going to University to study to be a teacher, or keep sending off writing and graphics to everybody under the sun until something pays off - and I don't think the latter is a viable option any more.

    A huge, huge thank you to everyone who's posted in here, thank you so much.
     
    Last edited: 13 March 2006
  8. Gorskino10

    Gorskino10 Guest

    well as u have been depressed u could worry about the money if going to uni and could fail,so get a coarse at coputeach or a company which get u good quilification's in your lesuire,which could suit you,but if you go the uni way its will be very cool,meets new peeps and that,anyway u could get a job which pays like 10k a year or more so it wont take that long to pay off your loans,good luck:)
     
  9. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Banned

    12 February 2005
    London
    Just wondering Jack Bauer, what are you doing at this present time?
     
  10. Dar

    Dar Fullonrapist Staff

    21 February 2003
    Dublin
    Mate, my advice. Get yourself to Uni.

    The main reason you seem to have for not going are the preconcieved social implications and idea's you have. Uni is as social or as anti-social as you want it to be. The choice is totally up to you!

    The other reason I'm sensing is the fact others acting out and disrupting the class distract your attention. Now as much as thats not really a problem that cant be overcome by patience and the knowledge that teenagers are idiots, Uni lectures are miles and miles different to any classroom experience you'd had in the past. In Uni it's up to you if you go to lectures, up to you if you pay attention and ultimately, up to you if you pass or fail. They treat you like an adult which is what you are by then. You'll find only the people that want to actually progress and learn turn up to the lectures, while the rest go to the bar or the pool hall etc...

    The fact of the matter these days is that you cant get a great job without experience. Sure sometimes someone gets lucky and lands on their feet through pure chance, but for the most part, we have to work to where we get.
    I'm 2 months away from graduating with an Honours Bachelor of Engineering degree and I already know my job hunt will probably be anything from 6months to a year. I may get lucky and get a menial job somewhere, but it'll be the people that graduated 2 years ago and have done the menial job for 12-18 months that will be getting the good jobs I'm attempting to go for this time.

    So is the cycle of life. :)
     
    Last edited: 13 March 2006
  11. Milanista

    Milanista Mangiamoli! Staff

    19 December 2002
    London & Milan
    AC Milan
    Jack, many unis now adays offer sandwhich courses too... meaning you have a year at work that is part of your course. The rate at which the company hires you back after your degree is very high.... which gives you an advantage over people applying for a job without ever working there. I'm going to be heading to uni this september in big bad London all by myself, and I'm looking forward to meeting thousands of new people and aiming for my future goals.
     
  12. PetrovLFC

    PetrovLFC Raul!

    13 March 2005
    NW London
    Liverpool
    Good luck in london Milanista. Theres nothing bad about it, and I'm sure you'll find what your looking for. As long as you can keep tabs on your spending, as expense is the only drawback to London IMO.

    @jack

    Glad I could help out in small way
     
  13. gomito#10

    gomito#10 World Cup Winner

    9 May 2003
    DC, USA
    Jack,
    Your looking at the loan for UNI all wrong, it is not like your buying a car
    or a trip to the world cup, YOUR INVESTING IN YOUR FUTURE. The risk of going into debt for 10k will be rewarded 100 times over in your life. Dont think about it, just fucking do it. You will never regret your decision to go to Uni.
     
  14. rockykabir

    rockykabir hello

    30 March 2003
    London -> New York -> San Francisco
    Liverpool FC
    You hit it there csaunders....Student debt is a worry but when u have it in mind that its gonna be beneficial to you in the future, it doesn't seem that bad. You just gotta make sure that you will use it well ;)

    The age difference in uni is not an issue at all - so don't feel that you will stand out. You will find that you will make friends that you will know for the rest of your life ;) - at school/college, you occasionally had to compromise your personality to mix in with the crowd. At uni, you will be surprised at the sheer number of people with similar interests as you.

    A lot of places wouldn't even look at a candidate without a degree - this is not always the case but it is becoming increasingly so as more and more people go to uni.
     
  15. Coopz

    Coopz Retired Footballer

    27 April 2002
    like Dar said they treet you like adults at uni and in the end its up to yourself weather you pass or not. Whereas in School/College its hard to learn if your only 1 of the 30 who wants to listen.

    BTW are u still a Season Ticket holder?
     
  16. NickSCFC

    NickSCFC Banned

    18 July 2003
    Stoke-on-Trent, UK
    Stoke City/Liverpool
    Don't worry mate, at least you're not single. Your qualifications are very decent too, I also have ICT GNVQ Intermediate, I wasn't good enough to pass Advanced (damn programmings).

    If you want my advice, join a gym, boosted my self esteem massively, looking at doing martial arts soon too, you only live once.
     
  17. foxtrot

    foxtrot Shoe bomber

    24 December 2002
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Rangers FC
    Remember you don't have to pay it back if you aren't earning over £15k a year.
     
  18. NickSCFC

    NickSCFC Banned

    18 July 2003
    Stoke-on-Trent, UK
    Stoke City/Liverpool
    Ah, so it's like a "No win no fee" thing :mrgreen:
     
  19. hutch

    hutch Beaten by Chris Wright

    5 January 2003
    Mate, this might sound like some ridiculous advice so just ignore it if it is.
    Seen as you want to do Graphic Design like me, I can sort of relate to your situation. IF you have to do another year at college or something before they'll let you in Uni (as I did after I had my A-Levels) then I'd highly recommend an Art and Design Foundation Year which I'm currently 3/4's of the way through.
    I'm no great artist or anything (during the first week I literally had no idea what to do with the stick of charcoal they gave us) but I've had such a bloody good laugh this year. You don't need to be good at art or anything, you literally go in every day and fuck about doing painting, 3D, drawing, Graphics or any other shit like that. It's such a doss mate, no exams or anything, it's fantastic.
    Passing the course guarantees you a place at Uni (everyone passes the course even if you're useless like me, just turn up and throw some diarrohea on the paper then pretend it has some meaning behind it) and you'll really find yourself, as cliched and gay as that sounds. I was hardly the most confident lad myself (still not) at the beginning of this year but I definetly feel a lot more good about myself and a lot more prepared for Uni.

    So yeah, if you fancy it and you have to do another year before Uni, that's what I recommend. Granted, most people on my course are 18/19 but there's a few older students and everyone gets on great (Although I can't particularly stand art students and their ways, they tend to be quite friendly even if they're absolute goons) and you'll have a good laugh.

    But yeah, this might not be for you, so fuck the above advice right off if you like.
     
  20. hutch

    hutch Beaten by Chris Wright

    5 January 2003
    Don't feel like you've left it too late for Uni either. There's a 26 year old guy on my course. I had no idea he was 26 until about a few weeks ago when I also learnt he had a kid and works at the Disney store. I thought you were older than 21 to be honest, go for it.
     
  21. PLF

    PLF Legend

    2 August 2004
    Can't say I've read the whole thread JB but I did read parts and Csaunders for me hits the nail right on the head.

    Student debt is an investment and one that will make you not only be able to pay that off in future but have a greater and more high quality of life.

    Also what Hutch said, get to Uni man don't worry about age and you're not even old. My uni I see a lot of middle-aged people even some even above 50 I swear but there's no shame.. they're coming and learning with some of us who are 19-22 and improving themselves and their qualifications like everyone else.

    I think the right thing to do is get to Uni and follow Dar's advice as well.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
  22. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Banned

    12 February 2005
    London
    Just want to say, Uni isn't the only option! It's not the be all and end all.
     
  23. Milanista

    Milanista Mangiamoli! Staff

    19 December 2002
    London & Milan
    AC Milan
    But demand for students/people with a degree is increasing everyday.
     
  24. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Banned

    12 February 2005
    London
    So is it unlikely that your gonna get a good job if you haven't got any qualifications from Uni?
     
  25. Milanista

    Milanista Mangiamoli! Staff

    19 December 2002
    London & Milan
    AC Milan
    You can still find a job, but demand from multi national companies for this sort of education is slowly increasing... which is also why the government in England are trying to encourage people to go to university.
     
  26. Clockender

    Clockender is back...but for how long?

    27 November 2001
    East Lower, Block 13
    Arsenal FC
    I never went to Uni. Do I regret it? Sometimes. Do I earn a lot now? I do ok. Am I happy in life? Yes and thats not because of the amount of money I earn.

    I joined a bank after my BTEC in Business in Finance 14 years ago. I thought I was made for life, career path and all that. I left the bank after 4 years as the job changed dramtically and I hated it. I joined a smaller company in the admin dept. When a trainee job came in the IT dept I jumped at the chance. I am now the Senior System Administrator, doing support and network admin, the next step is to be the IT manager!

    I guess what I am trying to say is that its difficult to make plans at your age. My advice from my experience is that its difficult to really plan for something, lots of people (including me) have just fallen into something they enjoy (sometimes not even knowing that the career existed). If you want to be a graphic designer and don't want to go to Uni then you can be. You will have to be prepared to start at the bottom and work extremely hard in the first years. If you show enough willing then the opportunities will open up for you. Companies like to promote from within. I am a good example of that!!

    Good luck Jack in whatever you do. You will find happiness and the right balance in your life.
     
  27. gomito#10

    gomito#10 World Cup Winner

    9 May 2003
    DC, USA
    the IT field has always been a place where degrees dont mean that much, but with offshoring of IT work and the like, it now is more important then ever. Its alot easier to fall into something with a Uni degree then not... you will have alot more choices in life with that degree son...
     
  28. rockykabir

    rockykabir hello

    30 March 2003
    London -> New York -> San Francisco
    Liverpool FC
    Uni is definitely not the be all and end all - I have spoken to a few CEOs and managers in career fairs at uni and a lot of them haven't gone to uni.

    However, many of the training programs by the big companies require the applicant to be a graduate. Having a degree is increasingly becoming a necessity.

    But this also depends on the field of work you want to go into. Obviously for fields like Law, you'll need a degree. But fields like IT, hands on experience is often highly regarded - sometimes you'll find that your degree is not of any use.

    For something like graphic design, the employer is looking for someone with a unique and effective style. Art school would be preferable - but more importantly, you'll need an extensive portfolio to show your abilities. You'll need something that will grab the eye of your employer or art school interviewer.

    But, you will have to ask yourself a few questions. You like design - but will you want your interest as a career?

    The answer may not be that obvious at first. Especially with design, you will have to sometimes do hundreds of drafts for a single design. You will have to accept strong criticism from people. As with most work, it can become more of a chore than fun. This is not to put you off, but a somewhat difficult reality bite you'll have to accept for whatever field you want to go to.

    The best way to find out is to get experience. Create your own website and email smaller companies - ask them whether you can design anything for them (i.e. logo, page designs, websites, etc...) for a low price or maybe even for free. That whole process of making drafts, accepting criticism and getting the job done is priceless experience and something you can add to your CV...
     
  29. hutch

    hutch Beaten by Chris Wright

    5 January 2003
    Yeah that's a good point. The reason I'm doing this course now is becuase the Unis told me I should come back in a years time after doing it with a more broader range of drawings/paintings etc.
     
  30. hutch

    hutch Beaten by Chris Wright

    5 January 2003
    ...and I've got in the Unis I applied for (apart from Manchester Met who seemingly only give interviews to future presidential candidates) pretty smoothly. :)
     

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