Help me get a life/job (please) - WARNING, CONTAINS LIFE STORY

[babs]

If you want to do something computer related, just jump in on whatever you can at the moment. The best way I found was to join the Temping agency run by the county council. They popped me in a two-week placement at a local IT project for some data input, now 4 years later I have a full contract, I head IT on the project and they're paying for all my MSCE courses and exams. Experience matters more to IT depts than anything else.

That said, anything else you want to do from your list, just decide on it and do it. If it's teaching, get your arse to uni and work hard. If you do want to join the police, don't worry about the fitness too much. A colleague of mine has just joined the police, and apparently the tests aren't too hard at all. Something like 50 metres swimmimng, being able to push/pull a ridiculously light weight. Most gyms do an intensive fitness regime for police applicants too.

A lot of the design advice seems sound here, I'd also add getting yourself a portfolio together asap. Just bung everything you've done in it and have a look through.

 

[Stringer Bell]

Hey babs do you know how to get work as programmer for a IT company?

Is it just usualy sending your CV with a covering letter and how they call you back?

Also see when your working in the IT industry, are all the jobs you get tied to contracts?

 

[babs]

You generally don't get programming jobs with IT companies, more software devcos. It depends what you mean by IT companies to be honest. There may be some light programming involved with normal large companies too, I know two programmmers who work for Choices video and Norwich Union.

A CV and a covering letter is a way of making yourself known to them, but it's almost never the case that they'll open up a job for you based on that. Your best bet is to use some of the common recruitment agencies for that sort of thing if you're serious, like Aardvark Swift for the games industry for example.

A lot of IT work is contract based, mine certainly is. It depends what sort of thing you want to do. A lot of programming jobs are contract based, whereas systems support and things like that it's easier to get a job with a large company/council.

 

[Chris Davies]

Huge great-big thank you to everyone who's replied again, I really appreciate every word.

Just wondering Jack Bauer, what are you doing at this present time?

I was working in a local bakery until I started this thread. I'd had enough of doing something I really, really didn't want to do. I felt slightly pressured into getting any job as I was being told constantly by my family that I needed something, anything. I was stressed up to the eyeballs (which is horrible - I realise people are going through things ten billion times worse than what I'm going through - I feel guilty even saying that I'm "going through" something!!). So currently, what I'm "doing" is adding to my graphics and writing portfolios every day, and deciding what to do with my life.

BTW are u still a Season Ticket holder?

Haha, as if. As much as I'd love one, I need the money.

Mate, this might sound like some ridiculous advice so just ignore it if it is.

All of your advice is very welcome Hutch, especially as we're quite similar characters (don't go getting offended). I'm warming more and more to the idea of Uni, especially seeing as your life-story is similar to mine (shy, interested in graphics etc.) - but there's still some things I've got to think about. Especially career choice, which rockykabir mentioned.

Just want to say, Uni isn't the only option! It's not the be all and end all.

I agree, especially seeing as most people I know in high-flying jobs got there with few or even no qualifications. But my struggle to find anything is an indication that when you're starting out with no previous experience, you need a very, very strong qualification to get them to look at you twice. That said, I'd much rather go without Uni - but it's not looking like I have much of a choice.

You can still find a job, but demand from multi national companies for this sort of education is slowly increasing... which is also why the government in England are trying to encourage people to go to university.

What he said. Unfortunately.

I never went to Uni. Do I regret it? Sometimes. Do I earn a lot now? I do ok. Am I happy in life? Yes and thats not because of the amount of money I earn.

I joined a bank after my BTEC in Business in Finance 14 years ago. I thought I was made for life, career path and all that. I left the bank after 4 years as the job changed dramtically and I hated it. I joined a smaller company in the admin dept. When a trainee job came in the IT dept I jumped at the chance. I am now the Senior System Administrator, doing support and network admin, the next step is to be the IT manager!

This is the kind of story I'm talking about - most people I know who are in decent-paying jobs have got there this way, which makes me feel like Uni may turn out to be a waste of a few years. But then I suppose I would have a job by now if I didn't need to go to Uni. I've fixed more PCs than I can remember, I've been doing it for years, but when you're going for a job you can't say "I've got all these qualifications from Uni plus I've fixed my sister's PCs, my nephew's PCs, my neighbour's and their friends' PC's" or whatever. Doesn't stand up very well!!

Good luck Jack in whatever you do. You will find happiness and the right balance in your life.

Thank you so much. I hope so!!

the IT field has always been a place where degrees dont mean that much, but with offshoring of IT work and the like, it now is more important then ever. Its alot easier to fall into something with a Uni degree then not... you will have alot more choices in life with that degree son...

Very true. I suppose for the cost of a few years, going to Uni is worth it. It'll work or it won't, but it's worth a try.

Having a degree is increasingly becoming a necessity.

But this also depends on the field of work you want to go into. Obviously for fields like Law, you'll need a degree. But fields like IT, hands on experience is often highly regarded - sometimes you'll find that your degree is not of any use.

My tutor at college, who used to work in a telecoms company, asked one of the guys he was training to go and fix this problem, whatever it was. Anyway, the guy went away and came back a few hours later with what my tutor originally thought was a newspaper. He'd gone away and done a REPORT on how to fix the problem, all of the different methods, the choices, diagrams, the lot. But he hadn't actually TOUCHED what he was supposed to fix. When he eventually went away to fix the problem, he fucked it up completely; and apparently, this happened more than once (with different people). So his view on degrees was different to most of the other tutor's. :|

But, you will have to ask yourself a few questions. You like design - but will you want your interest as a career?

Absolutely valid question. I'm usually a "yes" man, but a couple of months ago my girlfriend's dad said to me "to be able to understand all of this gibberish and fix it all, you must really love computers", and I nearly exploded. I don't, in all honesty. I had a PC plonked in-front of me when I was barely an age of double-digits. I played around with it, broke it, and my sister's boyfriend would come and fix it. He'd tell me what the problem was, why the problem was occuring, how to fix it, and why never to do it again. It all seemed to stick, whereas all of the other "subjects" I had didn't seem to get anything to stick (I couldn't speak French or German at school, but my Frerman was astounding).

But the thing is, I don't have any other kind of talent elsewhere. I'm a modest guy but the first thing I'd say about myself is I'm a computer whizz. Everything else I am utterly appauling at, though. There's things I enjoy, graphics being one of them, but I don't think I've got any talent in that field. The only other thing I think I'd be good at, which I'd LOVE to have a career in, is football coaching. I'm far from a great player, but I love to teach, and I believe that I'm tactically clever. But whether I could ever get into that field, ever, I have no idea.

I tried to look up the first football coaching courses you can do on the FA website, but the ones I'd need are only currently available in Wiltshire, from the looks of things (and I live in Cheshire, so there goes that idea). Plus the prices are astronomical. The basic ones are £50, which is fair enough, but the others range from £150 to £250+. Still, as much as I'd love to, and as I've already said, I'm sure it would be a very difficult career path to pursue anyway.

A lot of the design advice seems sound here, I'd also add getting yourself a portfolio together asap. Just bung everything you've done in it and have a look through.

That's what I'm currently working on. Cheers for all your advice Babs, you're a star.

 

[gerd]

Oh and one more word of advice Jack.
You describe yourself as anti-social. You're wrong, you prove it every day on this forum. You're a nice empathic guy with a good sense of humour.
Maybe you're shy and maybe you feel clumsy in group situations...well i used to be the same when going to university (a life time ago to you, i know, lots of things have changed, but still...)and guess what...i did not found it hard to have some friends...life time friends even...so don't hesitate going to university because you think you will not adapt...you will cope with the social aspect...everybody always does one way or another...just don't try to fit in the current stereotype of what a student should be...just be Chris Davies...you will have lots of friends...oh and maybe there are opportunities to coach uni-teams aswell...

 

[joostebrood]

Great advice here, I have nothing to add. It's either shooting up under a bridge or Uni.

 

[Stringer Bell]

You generally don't get programming jobs with IT companies, more software devcos. It depends what you mean by IT companies to be honest. There may be some light programming involved with normal large companies too, I know two programmmers who work for Choices video and Norwich Union.

A CV and a covering letter is a way of making yourself known to them, but it's almost never the case that they'll open up a job for you based on that. Your best bet is to use some of the common recruitment agencies for that sort of thing if you're serious, like Aardvark Swift for the games industry for example.

A lot of IT work is contract based, mine certainly is. It depends what sort of thing you want to do. A lot of programming jobs are contract based, whereas systems support and things like that it's easier to get a job with a large company/council.

Thanks for this info babs

 

[NickSCFC]

Sorry to bump this. I've been worrying about these things lately too. I'm 22 at the moment.

Left school with with GCSEs (2 E's in Eng, D in Maths, C's in science and a couple of other C's and D's).

Went to college and did Key Skills Maths and English which I now have equivalent to grade A-C GCSE.

Did Intermediate ICT, passed. Did 2 years Advanced ICT, just got grades D's and E's and didn't get into Uni.

Was then unemployed for 6 months before finding a crappy date-entry job. Now I'm doing an admin job at a pottery factory with a salery of £12,000... tho this may rise in a year or 2.

Basically I'm thinking of going back into education and doin part-time evening classes. At 1st I thought this would be pointless as I couldn't even pass full-time (though I guess I ws immature and had no direction at the time).

But my Dad told me about some guy he knows who's nearly 40, lived on a counsil estate cleaning windows for a living with no qualifications whatsoever, then did an evening class for 5 years, is now head of IT communications for North Staffs hospitals and is earning a fortune for it.

Just wondering if anyone else knows of someone who's done this, turned their life around at a late age?

 

[El Diego]

Nick I am 28 and have worked in so many different jobs and been in Uni (but dropped out) and have even been on the dreaded dole for a year. Jack shouldn't worry about life - he is still young and has everything to live for and is obviously an intelligent guy.

I now work for a local newspaper as an advertising co-ordinator. I started out simply as an admin assistant but have been promoted by working hard and showing more initiave that most of the morons that work here. It's a rewarding job and I don't have any qualifications (apart from 8 GCSE's) so life isn't about pieces of paper in my experience - it's about having drive and personality.

Jack, I seriously would apply to your local newspaper if I was you. Email your CV to Human Resources and ask for any positions that are available. You can get directly into journalism if you are already work at a newspaper as they will pay for you to carry out a course twice a week whilst working there.

The wages are great too.

 

[Rob]

A nice vague answer for you:

You are you

Your job isn't you

Your job means next to nothing when compared to what should make you, you

3 score and 10, but who cares? Just do what you do. Regrets are only yours.

Use your reason, hopefully progress, admire no-one.

Only try to live up to your expectations, whatever they are.

Last of all. Do not take life too seriously. You'll be dead soon (morbid but true) and likely no-one will remember you in 100 years.


Do what you want to do.

 

[EatonTJ]

I just noticed this thread and found it interesting. My advice for those of you who know what you want to do, but don't know how to get employed to do it is to find someone that is doing "your dream job" and ask them how the hell they got there.

People in all walks of life love to give advice, and if you politely call and make an appointment with just about anyone they will typically meet with you (offer to buy them lunch or something) and answer any questions you have for them. Plus, you will then have a contact in your industy... that's pretty great.

 

[Dermot]

Hmmm, not 100% sure what i should add here to all this. Me? I've given in, I've sold my soul to the devil long ago and indulge myself daily in the mass of narcotics and brews Mom told me was very bad for you all those years ago. I'd reassess your stance on alcohol and start to ask yourself if it can become a bigger influence in your life. For me it is something which completely clouds my judgement and all rational and moral thought simply goes out the window, therefore the pain is not present like when I'm sober. I am drunk and high while writing this actually and I'm laughing at a lot of the issues you are dealing with, while having a little mini window open with that pic of you in the sunglasses and the bleached hair. Yeah, I am quite numb right now. hahahahaha

 

[Chris Davies]

My advice for those of you who know what you want to do, but don't know how to get employed to do it is to find someone that is doing "your dream job" and ask them how the hell they got there.

When I started this thread (I think some of the pissheads - sorry, hilarious comedic posters - are forgetting that it was a while ago now), I had actually tried that Eaton, believe it or not. I wrote a letter, kept it down to one page, and sent it to various journalists in my area, as well as a few local sportsmen who had been known to become a journalist or an analyst now and then. I didn't get a single reply and I was really surprised.

Years ago, when I was still in high-school and worrying about it, I sent a similar letter to just one of those people, and I had a reply within a week. But I'm presuming that was purely because I was young, and they had an idea that I might start crying to the local papers if I didn't get a reply from "a pillar of the local community". Now that I'm older and none-the-wiser, nobody seems to give a shit. :eh:

I'm in work at the moment, but it's nothing that I want to be in for very long. I think I'll do what El Diego and you have suggested and get a few more letters out there. Perhaps I should lie about my age...

 

[Scouse]

Will be going to uni shortly cant wait, debt doesnt bother me i mean not paying it back till your atleast on 15000 is good enough for me, plus im doing a sandwich course where you spend a year working for a real company on full pay and im guessing should i put the effort in and make myself stand out they might recruit me on completetion of my uni course, doing games technology (basicly programming design and graphics all in one then in the final year you pick your strong point and specialize in it )

i can only say, get to uni, if its anything like college, it'll be a laugh with some good times with your mates sept will cost a hella lot more but at the same time your not paying it back right that second so enjoy it

 

[Chris Davies]

Jack, I seriously would apply to your local newspaper if I was you. Email your CV to Human Resources and ask for any positions that are available. You can get directly into journalism if you are already work at a newspaper as they will pay for you to carry out a course twice a week whilst working there.

For anybody reading this with any ideas how newspapers work, if I was to write to my local newspaper begging for a job, what could I include with said begging letter? I was thinking it would be a good idea to include a piece I had written but most of the stuff I have written is computer games reviews, with the odd football match review here and there. What could I include that would catch the eye?

Or should I just send a CV and not include anything?

 

[Stan]

It doesn't work like that Jack...
You just have to write articles if you want to work for a news paper.
Go to several news papers and propose articles or better still, sent them articles...

 

[Adonis]

Mate have you tried online job sites? Things like monster? My cousin got a job on there very quickly, walked into a £16k job straight away without any qualifications.

In many ways I can relate to somethings that you're going through. It was actually at 21 I changed my own life. I was working around 20 hours a week, takin it easy and living off the parents. I had no qualifications but manged to get a job at FCUK. After a sudden family crises, which invloved my parents seperating, I didnt have that cushion no more. Already having my foot in the retail door I tried pursue a retail career.

After applying for many jobs I finally got a managerial postion at Game, and from there Im now at Virgin. Ever thought of going into retail, or is that not your thing? Its hard work at the start, but if you get into the right Company you'll find yourself moving up very quickly and increasing your wage on a yearly basis.

I guess you have to be a certain type of person to work in retail. But dont give me that 'anti-social' talk. Like gerd said you're a very open and talkative guy. You'll be fine

btw are you living in Cheshire now? Have you moved since the last time we talked?

 

[rockykabir]

Hope it all goes ok JB. We've all experience the crossroads at some point in our lives (I still am at that crossroad since graduating last year!).

My advice for something like journalism is to use Web 2.0 to your advantage. It's the journalist's dream to get exposure - but these days, to do that, you have to be different in your approach.

Many popular bloggers have gone on to become journalists. On your cover letter to a prospective employer, you can mention your popular blog and this is something solid to show your passion for the subject and for writing articles will give you the edge.

But it is a lot to do with luck. Many of the best authors/journalists were doing other random jobs whilst waiting for their break. As corny as it sounds, you have to stay determined and not give up on you dream if this is really what you want to do.

 

[peteh]

read all of this was very intresting to see how people have come to their careers etc etc...

At the moment I am DEFINETLY one of those lacking in direction people.

I am 17, got 11 GCSE's C's Eng, Match, Science, Sports, Religious Studies, and the rest were D's one E in French

Got an E in Art AS purely because i did about four pages of work in the entire year

Got an D in Design and Technology

Got a E in Sports Studies

I bring it all down to lack of motivation..

Need to find out what i want to do as Im drifting at the moment!

 

[Chris Davies]

That story sounds familiar...!

Anyway, cheers to Adonis for recommending I put my CV up at Monster - I've had a response already, albeit from "E-People - a division of Computer People", who are a recruitment agency.

Now can someone help me out here (please), because I'm really confused. They just rang me up out of the blue this morning and started asking questions, so I was understandably confused and a bit suspicious. The woman who rang has now sent me an email asking me to forward my CV, and what she's talking about is exciting (she mentioned the companies she is "sure" she can get me into, and it was impressive - plus she wouldn't have known the company names she'd mentioned unless she was serious). I asked what the catch was and she said there wasn't any and straight away asked me the next question.

So, with recruitment agencies, what's the deal? Is she going to ask for a cut of my salary or something if she does get me a job? How on earth does her firm make money if they ring up random people from Monster and recommend them jobs?

 

[:: JJ ::]

I think, and I might not necessarily be right, but the way recruitment agencies make their money is that their clients, i.e. the companies where you're sent to work, pay the agency the rate, from which, they take a cut and pay you the rest. Say you get paid £6.50 an hour through the agency - their client would be paying a rate of say, £9 an hour to them, so they take a bit off.

However I'd be careful and have a good think before committing yourself to signing up with recruitment agencies because most of the time this interesting stuff they tell you over the phone doesn't materialise. I experienced the problems for myself last year after finishing uni - the job I had lined up fell through so I posted my CV on Monster and loads of recruitment agencies contacted me. I was desperate for work and needed the cash but despite promises of permanent and long-term contract work I got 2 days here, 3 days there, and the rate of pay was rather crap to be honest.

In the end I dropped lucky and got a job in the place I worked during uni holidays which I still have 6 months on, the agency I was registered to wasn't happy like but stuff them, haven't looked back. Just be wary, and also do a bit of homework on those job agencies if you can, are they reputable or just some bunch of penpushers pulling a fast buck out of temp's?

 

[BobbyBox]

Hi I read the first post and a couple of others - but I couldn't be arsed to read the rest. But I wanted to give you a bit of encouragement.

My brother was unemployed for years - stayed in his room at my parents. I think he was about 24 when he got a labouring job - did really well. He met a girl who was a teacher and she encouraged him to be a teaching assistant.

He had no previous experience, but he just showed he had the skills. He is Now a learning mentor to kids and is very much respected at his school. There are many options for him going into teaching if he wanted - but he is enjoying himself at the moment and is earning good money.

He now has a beautiful 1 year old boy (i'm a proud uncle) and has a wonderful flat (that they own) with the woman he loves.

My brother was a complete waster it took him until 24 to get his act together. You just need a kick up the arse sometimes. He had no experience of working with kids but showed transferable skills. This may be an option for you getting into teaching.

My brother said that if he could be a teaching assistant for ever he would be if it paid better. He loved every minute of it!! Now he has so many options!!

So if you want to be a teacher there are other ways - fun ways - to get into it and get experience at the same time.

I hope this helps you - its a bit rushed, but it is just to give you an idea - you sound like you are in a much better position than my brother was and you are only 21 - youve got a lot going for you.

I am 27 went to uni - Im earning good money - but I don't necessarily like my job. so definately you do not have to go the Uni way. Lots of my friends haven't and they are doing really well.

Anyway good luck in what ever you do, I hope you get some inspiration and I do think If you put your mind to it you can do anything.

All the best.

 

[Chris Davies]

What a guy!

Cheers for posting all of that, it does leave me with a bit more hope that I'll be somewhere that I want to be one day. What's strange is that I actually know a teaching assistant who has recommended that I become one too, as the school where she works (and schools in general, I'm reliably informed) have barely any male teaching assistants, and they need to get the numbers up. I don't know if that's what I want to do, though.

At the moment I'm having a lot of fun with graphics design, which is something I've loved from the age of 13. I did it for so long that I ended up hating it and stopped doing it; and now, to beef up the CV and job options, I decided to start again. A lot has changed, but I still love working so hard on something and seeing the final product. I have a brilliant-looking website design here, and now all I have to do is turn it from a graphic to an actual website. I've spent £50 on HTML/XHTML and CSS books so far, and it's incredibly hard to position everything on the page and have it stay there across the resolutions, but I'm loving the challenge.

I'm just hoping and praying that if I get it all up and running and pop a link in the CV that it gets me a job somewhere, rather than them looking at the qualifications first and laughing.

I might even end up going back to college, who knows (I could cope with that, but not university).

Anyway, thank you, it was really kind of you to make that post and I appreciate it.

 

[gomito#10]

What a guy!

Cheers for posting all of that, it does leave me with a bit more hope that I'll be somewhere that I want to be one day. What's strange is that I actually know a teaching assistant who has recommended that I become one too, as the school where she works (and schools in general, I'm reliably informed) have barely any male teaching assistants, and they need to get the numbers up. I don't know if that's what I want to do, though.

At the moment I'm having a lot of fun with graphics design, which is something I've loved from the age of 13. I did it for so long that I ended up hating it and stopped doing it; and now, to beef up the CV and job options, I decided to start again. A lot has changed, but I still love working so hard on something and seeing the final product. I have a brilliant-looking website design here, and now all I have to do is turn it from a graphic to an actual website. I've spent £50 on HTML/XHTML and CSS books so far, and it's incredibly hard to position everything on the page and have it stay there across the resolutions, but I'm loving the challenge.

I'm just hoping and praying that if I get it all up and running and pop a link in the CV that it gets me a job somewhere, rather than them looking at the qualifications first and laughing.

I might even end up going back to college, who knows (I could cope with that, but not university).

Anyway, thank you, it was really kind of you to make that post and I appreciate it.

Jack, to quote from a cheesey movie "Seize the day" go out and get your degree from college if thats all your aspiring too. But dont do it half-assed, since you dont drink, your already one step ahead of everyone else . Just apply yourself and you can do it. Dont wait. Just go do it.

 

[Stan]

I agree with what CSaunders says Jack...go for it now...and be a motivated student.
I was a very unmotivated student at university, fortunately i came away with it and got my degree...in the same year as i there was a girl who was very motivated and i kind laughed with her...afterwards she became a journalist, my dream job and she is a very good one too...she just wrote a beautiful book on China.
With hindsight a should have been more motivated. i wasted my time at university and was lucky to obtain my degree.
All in all i'm pretty lucky because i have a fascinting job which i like, but it should have been easier if i would have been motivated when i studied...
So Jack, go for it now when you' re young. There are lots of guys (girls are more clever usually) who were not motivated and quit school...now they are 45 like me and they have shit jobs, high mortgages and are despearte unhappy people...they had more fun than i when we were 21 years old...but now i'm definitely the one with most fun, most money (although this does not matter much for me) and the lowest mortgage...

 

[El Diego]

girls are more clever usually

Not true my friend. That's a very general and naive statement.

Lovely post though and good luck to you with your career.

 

[rockykabir]

[chauvinist]

Girls aren't more clever - they are just more organised and harder working....and good to copy from.

[/chauvinist]

 

[BobbyBox]

All true about being motivated.

I went to Uni because I could - I didn't necesarilly want to do the subject I chose and I didn't do it seriously. If I would have put effort into it I would have done much better.

So I wouldn't go to Uni if you don't know exactly what you want to do and are interested in.

Thats a lie actually - I got a lot out of it - even though I didn't get a great grade. Made lots of friends and had a great 4 years of my life - I had a lot of fun!!

I would recomend Uni - But only if you go away from where you live. I went up to Edinburgh and you learn alot about yourself when you move away and it makes you socialise etc and puts you in good stead for the future.

Everyone is different tho - I like going out for a drink or two :-) so it will be different for someone who is not like that.

 

[gomito#10]

All true about being motivated.

I went to Uni because I could - I didn't necesarilly want to do the subject I chose and I didn't do it seriously. If I would have put effort into it I would have done much better.

So I wouldn't go to Uni if you don't know exactly what you want to do and are interested in.

Thats a lie actually - I got a lot out of it - even though I didn't get a great grade. Made lots of friends and had a great 4 years of my life - I had a lot of fun!!

I would recomend Uni - But only if you go away from where you live. I went up to Edinburgh and you learn alot about yourself when you move away and it makes you socialise etc and puts you in good stead for the future.

Everyone is different tho - I like going out for a drink or two :-) so it will be different for someone who is not like that.

"Thats a lie actually - I got a lot out of it - even though I didn't get a great grade. Made lots of friends and had a great 4 years of my life - I had a lot of fun!!"

yes exactly, uni has more to do with branching out and meeting new people, but doing it in a environment where everyone is at the same place in life. I had the best FIVE years of my life! HAHA