FIFA 12 Discussion Thread

Re: FIFA 12

danyjr said:
This Rutter guy is a waste. I met him last year in Germany and not only he didn't have a clue about football as a sport, he was a total arrogant d**k. Don't believe the hype, in the end it is going to be some eye candy stuff for little kids to make sure they force their mothers to buy FIFA 12 for them. Last year a lot of us hoped Personality+ and Pro-Passing would be a great addition, only to be disappointed later by how insignificant they both were. All flash, no substance.
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That is EA all over. Met a few of them at the testing place last year, v arrogant.
 
Re: FIFA 12

No doubt another half arsed attempt at something new.
I just wish they would go back and actually finish "new" modes from previous versions rather than bring anything new to FIFA12... now that would be revolutionary!!
 
Re: FIFA 12

Nick Cave said:
I think we have all been burned once too often to get excited by any of EA's early hype again. I'm still trying to get over the shock and disappointment of CM 11 from CM 10!...
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Did you believe that PES2011 would turn out as it did after the 2008-10 debacles?
 
Re: FIFA 12

What was your involvement? Which aspects from previous MM's they could strip out for 11? Don't tell me you told them that 16-20 year olds should never develop a single attribute point until their 21st birthday? Damn you, damn you to hell!!!! ;)
 
Re: FIFA 12

I didn't play FIFA 10 manager mode so I probably would be even more annoyed about the current FIFA 11 with features being removed. It reminds me of the Master league mode in PES next gen when they used to take features out the game
 
Re: FIFA 12

danyjr said:
This Rutter guy is a waste. I met him last year in Germany and not only he didn't have a clue about football as a sport, he was a total arrogant d**k.
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Hmmm, never really thought he was a dick when I have met him. Sure been disappointed with aspects of the game his team created but he has always been polite to me.

As for not having a clue about football, have a read here > http://www.next-gen.biz/features/fifa-10-championship-managers?page=0,0

danyjr said:
Don't believe the hype, in the end it is going to be some eye candy stuff for little kids to make sure they force their mothers to buy FIFA 12 for them. Last year a lot of us hoped Personality+ and Pro-Passing would be a great addition, only to be disappointed later by how insignificant they both were. All flash, no substance.
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Under implemented features I agree, but none the less a step in the right direction. If they are able expand and refine PP P+ in addition to improving the physics and CM issues then we are getting pretty close to what would be the pinnacle of football on a next gen console. I am simplifying all the issues for brevity.
 
Re: FIFA 12

Vieirinha said:
Did you believe that PES2011 would turn out as it did after the 2008-10 debacles?
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Konami's story is very different to EA's. After Konami released 2010, they understood that their game was far behind FIFA as a result of fans' reaction and consequently sale figures. With my understanding, Konami worked their asses off last year to get PES back in business (from animations to gameplay, 2011 was the biggest annual improvement in the history PES series), something that paid off and while we are at it let's hope they have been keeping up the good work.

On the other side, EA have never really felt the pressure of losing the market. FIFA has been selling more and more year by year with FIFA 11 being their best-selling title of recent years, hence they won't feel like they need to improve the game as much as Konami felt like they had to. The half-assed features of FIFA 11 compared to significant improvements in PES 2011 is proof to my words.

I personally think if Konami do as much work as last year for PES 2012, they will finally be able to compete with FIFA. I prefer PES's engine due to its freedom and I think it is the way to go forward. I can only hope Seabass and Co. haven't pulled their feet off the gas pedal after PES 2011's relative success. As for FIFA 12, I won't get my hopes high. It is more or less going to be the same book in a different cover.
 
Re: FIFA 12

Vieirinha said:
Did you believe that PES2011 would turn out as it did after the 2008-10 debacles?
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I for one did, well if you mean actually turn half decent again (i've been quite outspoken recently against PES 2011). I still maintain that they're in the right direction, though perfecting that is a different matter altogether. I have never had that feeling with Fifa. Ever since i realised how much i hated '10, i have never really had any faith in them creating a decent game again. Then again EA Sports has a track record of about 1 and half decent football games (08 and 09) and Konami has about 10. That is probably a huge factor in my decision. It's kind of why i sometimes stand back and wonder why everybody expects so much from FIFA.
 
Re: FIFA 12

So Gary Paterson says they can't do much to improve gameplay, and David Rutter says Fifa12 will be a revolution, which one to believe?
 
Re: FIFA 12

Lol I was just about to post that in another forum. I think what Gary was trying to say is that there's only so much you can do to appeal to the hardcore players. So when Rutter comes out and made a statement about the next game being a revolution, he probably meant that for the first time, they're gonna be focusing solely on the casual fanbase. A Fifa without all the simulation bits...haha well that's how I interpreted it (trying hard to not fall for the hype again :().
 
Re: FIFA 12

Oh dear God! Such confusion so early on! Its hurting my brain!
 
Re: FIFA 12

A superficial thing, but it need mentioning nonetheless, are player faces. Manager modfe felt like playing with made-up teams a lot of the time. Players running around with simian features like Bale and Wilshire. Who has the licence again?

Manager Mode needs to be way more involving. EA need to focus on what key aspects make people want to be a manger. Infact they could actually learn a lot from the fantasy football games online. Give the players a values that increase or decrease based on form. Make each player an indivual. You should want to sign a player for a paticular aspect of their skill that makes an impact on the pitch (crossing, dribbling, tackling, strength or a combination of skills).

Why is this so difficult to make happen?
 
Re: FIFA 12

gameklip said:
A superficial thing, but it need mentioning nonetheless, are player faces. Manager modfe felt like playing with made-up teams a lot of the time. Players running around with simian features like Bale and Wilshire. Who has the licence again?

Manager Mode needs to be way more involving. EA need to focus on what key aspects make people want to be a manger. Infact they could actually learn a lot from the fantasy football games online. Give the players a values that increase or decrease based on form. Make each player an indivual. You should want to sign a player for a paticular aspect of their skill that makes an impact on the pitch (crossing, dribbling, tackling, strength or a combination of skills).

Why is this so difficult to make happen?
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It isnt if your Konami, but EA have yet show they are capable of simulating individualism. Not once. I personally dont believe their dev's are even capable. EA have been left so far behind in this regard it's not even funny. Alternatively, lets for argument sake say they have the programming capabilities and a true understanding of footballing fundamentals- why bother ? They have phenomenal motion-capture technology that has enough magical sparkle to hood-wink the average gamer into believing visuals equate to realism. And that's the bottom-line. They have a highly successful footballing franchise, so why change a winning formula. I've stood by this belief for years, and nothing has changed to make me think any differently.

Looking at the bigger EA picture though, all their sports games are produced with the very same idiology in place. Can anyone seriously name any EA Sports title that doesnt follow the very same principle ? It's all glossy, fully licenced, and very, very pick-up-and-play. There is nothing deep or simulated in any EA Sports title I have ever played. Even Fight Night, which I loved. But hey, they sell bucketloads, so again, why change ?
 
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Re: FIFA 12

Jimmy G-Force said:
It isnt if your Konami, but EA have yet show they are capable of simulating individualism. Not once. I personally dont believe their dev's are even capable. EA have been left so far behind in this regard it's not even funny. Alternatively, lets for argument sake say they have programming capabilities and a true understanding of footballing fundamentals- why bother ? They have phenomenal motion-capture technology that has enough magical sparkle to hood-wink the average gamer into believing visuals equate to realism. And that's the bottom-line. They have a highly successful footballing franchise, so why change a winning formula. I've stood by this belief for years, and nothing has changed to make me think any differently.

Looking at the bigger EA picture though, all their sports games are produced with the very same idiology in place. Can anyone seriously name any EA Sports title that doesnt follow the very same principle ? It's all glossy, fully licenced, and very, very pick-up-and-play. There is nothing deep or simulated in an EA Sports title I have ever played. Even Fight Night, which I loved. But hey, they sell bucketloads, so again, why change ?
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While I agree with the majority of the statement above, I can't understand why so many of Evo-Webbers are against the pick-up-and-play philosophy. A good game is one that is easy to learn. First of all, most of us don't have the time or simply can't be bothered to go through a steep learning curve to be able to play a game. A lot of us are footballers, as opposed to gamers, and if PES is one for the footballing mind, I believe it should be easy to learn. Look at the most revered games in history, the likes of Starcraft. The game is perhaps one of the most simple RTS games you'll ever get to play but the magic that made it so big was the fact that it is hard to master. It is about tactics, anticipation and efficient use of resources, and this is what I want from a football game. I don't like button combos, rotating analogue sticks in various directions. I was never good at Mortal Kombat.
 
Re: FIFA 12

I would say that alot of prior PES games, although looking to simulate were very pick-up-and-play. PES 6 more than any other. That changed with PES 2010, which was so hardcore that those who were not prepared to put alot of time into, never saw the base for what PES 2011 is. Thankfully the semi-auto passing system was a massive step forward, in not only appealing to a wider audience, but by making it more user friendly.

I think if you play PES 2011 with the likes of Barca and Real Madrid, there is a more pick-up-and-play element to it. The game is so assisted with these type of superstars, very little thought to adhere to fundamentals is required to be successful.
 
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Re: FIFA 12

Personally I'd say that PES' player individuality is overrated and Fifa's player individuality is underrated, sure PES leads but it's not that far off, I played with a team of useless nobodies (ie the real Sheff Wednesday team) added in two players who had a bit of skill about them (one a Brazilian called Enihno) and the difference is staggering, they can do so much more with the ball and their agility/control leads to different animations and possibilities of play.
 
Re: FIFA 12

The problem FIFA has is that the bandwidth of players is so big that ratings have a smaller effect. Offcourse giving generic ratings that a 3rd div player can't be fast is another matter...
 
Re: FIFA 12

Placebo said:
That's not true though, it's down to data editors to make players appropriately fast, there's no "rule" that L2 players can't be fast.
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But since everyone in the game have the same perfect ball control when sprinting, giving a div 3 player 90 speed would make him one of the best players in the game. So it kind of is a rule because of the unrealistic nature of ball control in the game. I bet that if each touch were calculated and added error depending on stats, we would see more realistic speed values.

When I played football we had a guy in the team that was silly fast without the ball, but with the ball he was all over the place since he couldn't make good touches when sprinting fast. I hate how FIFA and PES both ignore this.
 
Re: FIFA 12

TikTikTikTikTik said:
The problem FIFA has is that the bandwidth of players is so big that ratings have a smaller effect.
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It's a factor, but at the same time I don't buy that completely because they don't use the full range of the scale. How often do you see ratings in the 1-25 area? That's a whole quarter of the scale that barely seems to be used at all.

In addition, I think they could quite comfortably make the lower numbers a lot worse than they currently are, thereby increasing the difference between each number, without it making the lesser teams unplayable. In fact I think they'd become more fun.

While I can notice the difference between playing against a top PL side (e.g. Chelsea) on the Saturday and then playing a midweek cup game against a lower division side (e.g. Notts County) in terms of the overall ability of my opponents, I can't very often tell the different strengths and weaknesses of an individual, however, and all players seem to adopt the same behavioural template which makes them all make the same decisions and have almost the same tendencies, etc. I think that's perhaps even more of a problem than the dilution of attribute numbers.
 
Re: FIFA 12

@ Nerf,

Agree, it's pretty pointless having a 100 point ratring when you only use a range between 50-100 anyway.

@ Placebo,

Do fast players actually get fast ratings? Or is it like Gab said, that they have to limit it to not make them too strong? I always got the impression that depending on league players fell into a certain range, whether accurate or not.
 
Re: FIFA 12

Fast players get fast attributes*, look at L1 Wednesday (who I of course edit)

Jermaine Johnson - Speed: 89 Acceleration: 84
Nathan Modest - Speed: 88 Acceleration: 82
Jon Otsemobor - Speed: 88 Acceleration: 83
Giles Coke - Speed: 84 Acceleration: 82

*or should if the data editor did their job right ;)

In all the years I've been a data editor I have never, ever been told "you must slow down these lower league players", it's a complete myth that it happens, the problem is simply the lack of available data for the lower leagues, it's really, really easy to check the speeds of Prem players as footage of every single Prem fixture is available, I download and watch 10 Prem fixtures a weekend no problem, for the lower leagues it's much tougher.
 
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