Next Gen? or is it no where near being Next Gen?

Is it all its cracked up to be?

  • Yes DJ it is... Shut your big fat gob you cunt!

    Votes: 14 46.7%

  • No DJ it isnt.... Glad you posted such a great poll and thread!

    Votes: 16 53.3%
  • Total voters
    30
  • Poll closed .
jaygrim said:
I don't agree with you Dags i think GOW is next-gen.
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Seconded.

People will always moan and as consumers, we will always expect more; it's natural. We are used to playing "next gen" now. If I played an original Xbox game now, I'd probably noticed how good games are today. I reckon FIFA 08 (next-gen) is the best football game ever and the orignal PS2/Xbox would NEVER handle it.
 
I (and MANY others) can play ESPN NFL 2k5 and see, besides graphics, it's gameplay and sheer amount of options and modes is far better than Madden 08.

Incidently Tim downloaded Black (Xbox) and I recall that being a pretty good FPS, although a bit generic at times. Yet I feel that is a better FPS than most 360 FPS games, including Halo 3. And it looks better than most 360 FPS games, the AI is better than most 360 FPS.
 
I agree about the Police Quest series, loved all of them, until they destroyed the franchise game with the first Police Quest SWAT which was some crappy isometric strategy game........
 
I think we are just in the beginning.. calm down. Remember first PS 2 titles? Now remember last Ps2 titles and notice the huge improvemet. Games are getting better. We already have some really good games though. Assassins Creed and Uncharted are great, but there will come better games for sure. It´s a matter of time. PS3 hardware isn´t even being 50% used, now imagine when it is used at 100%.
 
@ Dj doc, and the rest, what would you want different to make the games nextgen?

To me, Bioshock came close with the total package of sound, story, graphics but was still a fps at its core. To me the only way I see that would make a game really "nextgen" is AI. But other then that, what else can be done?
 
@tik I havent seen any major innovations in the gameplay with some of these 'Next Gen' games.Bioshock was awesome and the graphics were incredible. I would say that is 1 of the FEW games that I would class as Next Gen. The NBA and NHL 2K series look like they are current gen with an HD polish up. They could look 10 times better. Forza 2 likewise looks like Forza 1 with a few texture upgrades and the AI has slightly gone backwards from Forza 1 (IMO) FIFA's graphics in places look Next Gen and they are GETTING THERE with the game engine. It still does appear to have limitations that Previous Gen had.

@Cammey Rhianna may be gorgeous but her songs are fucking annoying!!! Umbrella ella ella eh eh eh under my Umbrella ella ella eh eh eh!!!
 
Whilst GoW is 'run-and-gun', I think it does enough to be labelled 'next-gen', due to the wow-factor.

Sure, the mechanics of the game could have been achieved on PS2/XBOX, but the whole package of textures, lighting, sound, interactivity, cut-scenes etc makes the game what it is. It would not have had the same impact on old-gen IMO.
 
DJ Doc4 said:
@tik I havent seen any major innovations in the gameplay with some of these 'Next Gen' games.Bioshock was awesome and the graphics were incredible. I would say that is 1 of the FEW games that I would class as Next Gen. The NBA and NHL 2K series look like they are current gen with an HD polish up. They could look 10 times better. Forza 2 likewise looks like Forza 1 with a few texture upgrades and the AI has slightly gone backwards from Forza 1 (IMO) FIFA's graphics in places look Next Gen and they are GETTING THERE with the game engine. It still does appear to have limitations that Previous Gen had.

@Cammey Rhianna may be gorgeous but her songs are fucking annoying!!! Umbrella ella ella eh eh eh under my Umbrella ella ella eh eh eh!!!
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NBA 2k8 is simply stunning, the AI is top notch, to me, this is a true next gen game. I really rea;lly like it. I dont know how you would make 2k8 look better as it looks great to me, so many animations too
 
If you have a HDready TV at least those game are a step higher than PS2 games in my opinion, also I didnt saw a big change in playability from ps1 to ps2, game where looking better but nothing stunnign on playability.

Forza2 for his customization possibility,driving feel and overall look of the game.
assassin creed for his graphic and world
Bioshock for everything
Devil May Cry 4 for his graphic and coolness
GT5 : Prologue for his Graphic
Stranglehold for his graphic and playability
Dead Rising for overall performance.

Those game are true next gen console I think, I didnt try Burnout yet but I guess this game with his enormous city will feel a lot next gen too.
 
Call me crazy guys, but in my opinion there is only so far we can realistically go (no pun intended) with next gen - certainly in terms of graphics, until they become "real".....now the first thing that struck me about next gen, was that the only major difference between this and previous gen was in the crazy quality textures, unlike the massive difference in everything between PSX and PS2.

My point is that I think this whole next gen thing is possibly riding a wave of expectation both realistic and not so plausible by us as users, therefore benefitting the developers. Don't get me wrong I would love to see some of the things being suggested like 11 vs 11 online PES (without LAG) I just do not think we will see this in full form until the NEXT gen in 5 years time.....this current generation seems to be all graphics and little innovation so far, as has been proven on X360 in particular with CoD 4, Halo 3 and Gears Of War ALL being overrated games and lacking in innovation and creativity....I wish I could say that was a snipe at X360 but the fact is it isnt as the PS3 is also currently guilty of the same thing. It's a shame the Wii isnt next gen because thats the only place we have seen anything like creativity and innovation.

With consoles like the PS3 the potential for the next generation is truly immense, just like the PS3 console itself.

I wish I could say the same thing about the X360, great console no doubt, when it works, but the only thing I can truly say about that console without a shadow of a doubt is that I now know why its called an Xbox360 - its because you go around in circles buying new X360 consoles after ur old one dies within a year due to the red ring of death!

People can moan all they like in the X360 vs PS3 war about how 360 has the many more games and is much cheaper and is way better online and has Microsofts millions etc etc etc.....But I have said it before and I will say it again, a console can have all the best and exclusive games in the world, but its all no good if the hardware is defective or inneficient, as is currently the case with Microsofts console, and that is why as a neutral, i can honestly only see one winner as it stands in the console war, that being the PS3 - simply because its hardware is of much better build quality and is much more reliable in that respect. Of course it does help that all of its exclusive killer apps are on the way, and that the blu ray format is also winning its war with the hd format too.

In any case back on topic, I think there was only ever so much they could do with current gen, and the potential for next gen is great, however for current gen aswell as the next the same basics that have served any art form so well, including games in years gone by many moons ago wouldnt go amiss, those things being creativity and some innovation.

Or is the game industry in a state of flux and we dont even realise it ?

Is the game industry just waiting for the next real major breakthrough in technology before we see true creativity and innovation the likes of what we saw between 1998 - 2002 ?
 
I personally think from a graphics point of view we could REALLY expect PHOTOREALISTIC graphics in most of our games. The power is there and so is the technology..... We still arent anywhere near that yet, its as if they are holding back.

AND defects aside (which are getting less and less) and build quality (stop swinging your 360s like cats!) the 360 for me is still winning the war and doing a great job considering it came out 1st. It for me has set the standard and Sony is on the backfoot I think. I am only really interested in games and thats why I play mostly on the 360 and hardly ever on the PS3.
 
Just looking at things rationally, I honestly believe that PS3 will win the war in the long run for various reasons, I just think that the xbox 360 shoots itself in the foot with its hardware reliability, if it wasnt for the fact that alot of consoles have and still are breaking down mysteriously then there would be little to no chance for the ps3, as it is though the PS3 has a hell of an opportunity this year to overtake the xbox360 and has already started outselling the xbox360 over in America as far as consoles go since the start of the new year.

Also I think its funny that xbox fanboys harp on about the GTA IV exclusive content that they are getting and the PS3 owners are not....thats just clever marketing by all involved, the PS3 owners are only not getting this content because it will likely already be on the same blu ray disc.

And it will be likely that xbox owners will have to pay again for this extra content.

Personally I just think the xbox 360 has too many detriments where as the PS3 has too much going for it.

I would like to point out that I am not a PS3 fanboy, obviously I am not a 360 fanboy either....I just wanted to point out that if this post seemed on the biased side I can assure you it is not, I look at it from a neutral perspective, hell I dont even own a PS3 yet, or a 360 anymore, and I only stated the facts mostly. It just turns out that the PS3 is a much better proposition than the xbox360 overall in the long run especially.

I have to ask you this but are you an xbox fanboy ? because I fail to see how you can dismiss the consoles defects and build quality so easily and focus on its games reportoire so quickly.

Its also worth pointing out that of the games that are not being shared with the 360, they are PS3 exclusive...whereas alot of the 360 exclusives such as Gears Of War for example are also available on the PC.

PS

Just wanted to point out that although I dont own a PS3 yet, my older brother had one last summer, so I know all about its build quality and some of its exclusive games like Resistance which I personally didnt like, also Ridge Racer and Motorstorm which I thought were really good games....Something I missed in pointing out earlier was the online element, which credit to the 360 it has that aspect nailed, at the time the PS3 didnt have it down as good but otherwise it was functional, time will tell if the PS3 will reach or even surpass the 360's online play elements.
 
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COD4 is definitely just touched up graphics, and the gameplay is nigh-on exactly the same as last-gen COD games, yet it's considered one of the best of this gen's games.
 
Which is a good point and tells me all you need to know about next-gen; great gameplay is all you need.

Gears Of War for me was a next-gen game, even though it could have been done (minus the graphics) on PS2. It was next-gen because of what the project leader says on the first page of the manual (not quoted word for word but this is the gist of it); "We wanted to make a next-gen game but we wondered, what does next-gen actually mean? To us it means an experience as exhilarating and as close to real life as possible. Before we started developing the game we had a team paintballing session to inspire us, and we decided from the start all of the development time would go into emulating the closeness of the team (including the fear that washes over you when you lose one man) and desperately sprinting to cover. We think we've managed to accomplish a 'panic' that you don't get in other FPS games and we hope you agree."

I totally agree and that for me is what next-gen is all about. It doesn't have to be something so incredible that everything is something you've never seen before, it just has to make your heart pound and has to get all the seperate elements (such as health, hit points, picking up weapons and all that) perfect. As long as every game is in development for long enough all games can achieve this, but unfortunately it's all up to the publishers.

Just thank God games like Grand Theft Auto have their releases put back.
 
thommohawk said:
People can moan all they like in the X360 vs PS3 war about how 360 has the many more games and is much cheaper and is way better online and has Microsofts millions etc etc etc.....But I have said it before and I will say it again, a console can have all the best and exclusive games in the world, but its all no good if the hardware is defective or inneficient, as is currently the case with Microsofts console, and that is why as a neutral, i can honestly only see one winner as it stands in the console war, that being the PS3 - simply because its hardware is of much better build quality and is much more reliable in that respect. Of course it does help that all of its exclusive killer apps are on the way, and that the blu ray format is also winning its war with the hd format too.
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First lemme just correct you on the content for GTA IV with the 360. It's exclusive content that Microsoft has contracted with Rockstar that will NOT (doesn't mean ever, just for the terms of the contract) show up on the PS3. That likewise also doesn't mean that the PS3 won't maybe get their own exclusive content. I mean, Soul Calibur often gives one console something the other can't have, while the other gets something else. I think the 360 crowd got jilted on SC IV, because who DOESN'T want to play as Vader, versus the midget Yoda? (Sorry, I love Yoda the wizened old master from the orignal trilogy, not the gymnastic freakazoid from the prequels)

Actually, I thought I'd jump in here after I found this forum via the YouTube linking (someone linked the Backbreaker video I have there in this thread). Right now, I've become a huge fan of the Euphoria engine, because it, IMO, is ushering in the next-gen of gaming that everyone has been waiting for. Not nice new graphics (which still will never rival that of CGI used for motion pictures) or bigger worlds. What will give us that next-gen of video game entertainment is smarter, more human-like computers.

Of the four games I'm looking forward to this year and next (and maybe 2010, depending if any get delayed) are GTA IV, Star Wars: Force Unleashed, Indiana Jones, and Backbreaker. All four utilize the Euphoria engine (and others, like Havok, for example), to bring a more believable human-like personality to NPCs. Of those four games, obviously, I think GTA IV has most hidden Euphoria's part within the multiple of software engines running behind the scenes to give an authentic realistic experience to the game.

Obviously part of the primary hype around Star Wars and Indiana Jones (other than the universe they are bringing to us) has been the Euphoria engine and what it will allow players to do and experience. But a game not noticed is Backbreaker, a football game being developed by Natural Motion, the guys behind Euphoria. The idea is to use Euphoria to create random, yet realistic, tackles and interactions between all players on the field, something unseen in any football game so far. No more motion capture of players, with a limit of just how many animations you'll see in a game anymore. Everything is calculated according to the physical enviorment. Player speed, weight, angle of impact, etc. is all calculated to create a realistic looking tackle.

Here's the vid:

[youtube]C2Sc5qumvZo[/youtube]

DJ Doc4 said:
I can remember that very trailer of Madden and thinking "OMFG this looks the Shit!!!" Then we ended up with a PS2 Madden with HD graphics and a few texture upgrades here and there.

PES6 on 360 was a good example. All they did was High Res the textures a bit.
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That is the trailer for Backbreaker. Not any Madden game.

Only thing so far about the video I don't like is that they show alot of fumbles. I hope Natural Motion realizes that professional players get hit hard all of the time, and don't lose the ball that often on hard hits. Most fumbles actually come from hands or helmets striking the ball from a player's grasp, not the force of impact. And of course, with EA Sports extending their deal with the NFL and Players Union thru 2010 (or was it 2013), obviously it will not feature any real life NFL teams or players. But just like Visual Concepts, with the arrival of NFL 2K and NBA 2K on the Sega Dreamcast forced EA Sports to finally go 3D with Madden and NBA Live, I have a feeling that this game will force them to license Euphoria (or develop their own in-house software that borders on piracy, as EA is known to do) and bring everyone a more realistic experience.

Just wait till Euphoria is used in a FPS. I'm sure one is around the bend, and just hasn't been announced yet.

P.S. Endorphin is another engine developed by Natural Motion, but I can't quite remember what exactly it deals with. But combined with Euphoria, it's supposed to give a far more realistic AI experience.
 
DJ Doc4 said:
I personally think from a graphics point of view we could REALLY expect PHOTOREALISTIC graphics in most of our games. The power is there and so is the technology..... We still aren't anywhere near that yet, its as if they are holding back.
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I don't think the power IS there for photo-realistic + the necessary physics + the necessary AI to pull off the visuals convincingly. The fundamental problem with graphics getting better and better is the mistakes/inaccuracies become more and more apparent. Which is why I personally prefer stylised games.

The Final Fantasy movie, whilst technically brilliant, was shallow and lifeless when in motion. It will take substantial improvements to character models and the skill of the animators to trick us into believing something is real. This is why Pixar movies are not photo-realistic, they are stylised worlds realised to suit that environment.

There are too many faults in games that immediately pull me out of believing something is real. In a single screenshot of GT5 I could be fooled, in motion, not so much. Photo-realism isn't the be all and end all of videogames, being immersed in an environment that you don't "question" or "pick faults" in should be the no.1 priority.
 
True LJ that should be above and beyond graphics but seriously I think its possible mate. There are way and means of getting things to work. I dont think we are far off of photorealism (in games where this would be awesome).
 
Photo realism in video games is still about 10-20 years away. The PS3, Wii, and Xbox 360 have given us graphics never b4 seen on a video game console, but the PC was already starting to get games like that about a year b4 their release. To get the type of CGI graphics you see in movies, you have to realize they're using a hundred or more CPUs daisy-chained together to create essentially a Super Computer, and render the graphics so that way you can't see the jaggies, etc. on the big screen. Video game consoles and home computers simply don't have that processing power to pull that off. 10-20 years from now, sure. But that'll be to only pull off what we see in movies now. By then, movies will probably have CGI characters that no one will be able to tell the difference between reality and CGI.

Another thing that movies have going for them is now they're starting to use actors on sets using mo-cap suits, like the Davey Jones character in Pirates of the Carribean, to help give the CGI character more human realism in films. Video games don't have that budget yet. 10-20 years from now, maybe. But now, no.

DJ Doc4 said:
Mate im convinced it was a MADDEN CGI we were watching!
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Sorry, but it isn't Madden. Just check out the following link, this is their official website: http://www.backbreakergame.com/
 
Tandur said:
Another thing that movies have going for them is now they're starting to use actors on sets using mo-cap suits, like the Davey Jones character in Pirates of the Carribean, to help give the CGI character more human realism in films. Video games don't have that budget yet. 10-20 years from now, maybe. But now, no.
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?

Games have been using mo capping for years and actors in mo cap suits as well. Like Heavenly Sword.

Or am i grabbing the wrong end of the stick?
 
Bohemia Interactive have used mocap for years and built their own mocap studio, even gets used for movies and commercials and other stuff, my wife used to do a lot of the mocapping when we worked there :)
 
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