FIFA 12 Discussion Thread

CalcioCalabrese said:

haha you got "left back" at the change rooms...

Click to expand...

Yeh I thought he meant literally lol, was my 1st ever game. But anwyay it does remind me of fifa formations its like players dont stray from there zones often.

Flaw3d Genius said:

Im redownloading the Fifa 09 demo just now...will let you know how it plays 3 years later compared to Fifa 12

Click to expand...

Its only 3.00 to buy new lol, if its that good or better than 11 ill buy for ps3 as I play 12 on pc. ANd i can get my mates to buy to for online ps3 gaming.

pes4lyfe said:

Its only 3.00 to buy new lol, if its that good or better than 11 ill buy for ps3 as I play 12 on pc. ANd i can get my mates to buy to for online ps3 gaming.

Click to expand...

The game has not aged well, Fifa 12 looks and plays like a nxt-gen platform compared to Fifa 09 which is not a swipe at Fifa 09 just more a great job EA have done in 3 years as i really wasnt expecting such a gap. No way could you play it after playing Fifa 12.

Flaw3d Genius said:

The game has not aged well, Fifa 12 looks and plays like a nxt-gen platform compared to Fifa 09 which is not a swipe at Fifa 09 just more a great job EA have done in 3 years as i really wasnt expecting such a gap. No way could you play it after playing Fifa 12.

Click to expand...

tbf I played the demo of euro 2008 a few weeks ago and it was pretty shocking, I coudl tell the gameplay seemed ok for its time but compared to today game overall looked poor. This was just made before 09 right.

I think of most benefit to FIFA would be to become more robust/predictable/consistent from a video game perspective (controls, physics, bugs etc) and less predictable/consistent from a football standpoint (variety of play, emergent outcomes etc).

These are the two pillars that always stand out to me whenever I think back to what my most recent FIFA experience consisted of. It primarily consisted of (amongst the other things that it does well, of course) a) regular irritants out of my control, and b) a lack of variety.

The times when the player selection gives you clearly the wrong player.
The times when your player uses his weaker foot when it was more logical to use his stronger foot.
The times when you press a button to head a ball clear and either nothing happens, or your player picks a disadvantageous heading animation.
The times when a cross comes into your penalty area and your AI-controlled defender has turned his back at the crucial moment, leaving the attacker with a free header - when there was never any reason for him not to remain facing the ball.
The fact that your big centre-backs stand in the wall, when you want them available to contest the set-piece delivery.
The time when you tell your GK to throw the ball out to your winger, but instead he hurls it against the back of a defender standing inbetween.

I'm sure we can recall many more. Little individual hiccups, fumbles and off-putting inconsistencies, immersion-breakers that are really small taken in isolation, but when combined together with the regularity that they are - and sometimes you can go through sequences where you almost feel like you're fighting the game - they wear you down after a couple of matches and represent 50% of the reason why you choose to put the controller down and walk away, instead of that 'just one more match' feeling the PS2 era PES gave.

Then the other 50% is how rigid and samey the game can feel. The same patterns repeated, a lethargic AI that is not active enough away from the ball (attacking or defending), an AI opponent that does not vary its play, no great team identity. Too many predictable outcomes to passes and shots, overly influenced by the 'magnetic' ball and its trajectory fabricated by the gravitational pull of players, strangling the imagined and the unexpected.

So, for me, it's not that those classic titles were better representations of football - they weren't. But I entered the next match with anticipation, rather than worrying that it was going to wear me down with its moments of unintentional bullshit and its tendency to repetition.

No video game is without its foibles, and none of this is to say that I don't get enjoyment out of FIFA12 - I do, just usually only in short bursts. And I think the reasons for this are perhaps the same (in reverse) reasons why those PS2 PES titles are remembered so fondly, beyond nostalgia.

nerf said:

I think of most benefit to FIFA would be to become more robust/predictable/consistent from a video game perspective (controls, physics, bugs etc) and less predictable/consistent from a football standpoint (variety of play, emergent outcomes etc).

Click to expand...

So much focus has gone into the responsiveness and freedom of movement, but so little has gone into nuanced, deliberate control. For all that people talk about PES being on-rails, a lot of the time PES taking over general control frees you up to be more deliberate about the next moment in the game - more precise in tight spaces, more clinical in terms of your movements, more deliberate in terms of the type of pass/shot/dribbling move attempted. FIFA does have a lot of potential depth in there, as far as shots or passes are concerned. You have different shot/pass animations leading to different spin on the ball, different ball speeds etc. But beyond certain extremes it doesn't really give you the means to control them - by which we don't mean holding a shoulder button, but 'knowing' which animation is going to be used in which situation. So the actual impact of not lining things up properly is subdued.

It's better than it used to be, sure. But it still seems fairly incidental, rather than a key part of every interaction with the ball.

^ Agree with the two posts above.

I think this is where FIFA has a challenge on its hands. I've said it for a long time now, what would I rather; have the magical potion that makes the gameplay come alive (PES), or have the bells and whistles in terms of tech and presentation (FIFA)?

For me this is a big question. Personally I would rather be in the PES boat and work on the exterior stuff, but have the knowledge that they possess the bottle of magic element in terms of gameplay and nuance, rather than have the TV style presentation and animations, but are stuck with what to do with gameplay with regards to FIFA.

I hope I'm wrong because competition is what it's all about, but I would think EA have a much harder job on their hands changing/adapting their code into something that resembles the feel of a game, whereas PES already possesses this but just needs the polish.

Both titles have to SERIOUSLY look at the scripting this year though. Jesus sometimes it's just so obviously game-breaking that it's a miracle the discs are in one piece.

Good posts here. For me, those small nuances in PES are what gives me the feeling I'm out on the field with the ball at my feet. Also the knowledge that if I'm on my wrong foot and press shoot the outcome will be terrible.

To go on from what Rom said, the one thing that sometimes is good and sometimes is bad in PES is that you don't know which animation is coming for a shot. I've hit a shot without R2 using Rooney and he's done his R2 curling shot animation. It often seems like the animation is context based rather than input based, which leaves me sitting on the fence.

Should we be allowed to choose whatever type of pass or shot we want, but then the stats determine how successful that is? Or should we only have a pass, cross and shot button and let the CPU decide on the type.

I believe the former should apply if we're going to have true freedom of choice (not of outcome). If we want the game to determine everything, we might as well just watch the CPU v CPU.

I played PES on PS2 and xbox1 for years and loved it to death, especially PES 5. And at that time when it came out it truly was an attempt at simulation compared to what EA was doing with Fifa.

But when you play PES 5 today you will see it's hardly a simulation at all, the current games of PES 2012 and Fifa 12 are much more of a simulation of football.

Nonetheless PES 5 has a certain magic, that neither of the current games could recapture and last night I threw in PES 5 for xbox1 into my xbox360 to find out what exactly made PES 5 so magical. I played it straight for three hours on top-player and it was a hell of a fun. Imho these are the things that worked together to create the magic:

1. The game is fast, passing is fast, the players are fast. To be exact the players have very good acceleration that makes me always feel in control of the player and reactive. It also makes you feel the power and skill of the player under control.

2. The pressure is intense. The opponents are always nearby and because of the acceleration/reactiveness it's a tight game, you have to pass the ball around to a player who is free to get that extra-time to plan the next move or you have to dribble very good to gain that space.

3. The ball is free and needs to be controlled. Hitting a hard pass to another player who runs to the ball from the opposite direction leads to a bouncing of the ball away from the receiving player and the opponent gets the time to jump between the ball and the player.

4. The wide-camera shows only part of the pitch, less than half of the pitch, and pans up and down and right to left when necessary. As unimportant as this may seem, this adds to the feeling.

5. The game is on rails and helps along to get the ball to the right player at the right time. For example I was on the right side of the pitch at the beginning of the last third of the pitch and another player of mine stood with one defender observing him near the goal-area. I thought wouldn't a nice cross to him be a good opportunity. The game thought obviously the same, cause the moment I pressed the cross-button, the game did everything to help create that nice goal:
I just pressed the button and never expected the ball to arrive well enough cause I was under pressure, but the assisting came into full effect creating the perfect trajectory. And what the other player in my team did to help along is even more incredible, all that while the ball was in the air! He went out of his way to the one defender who observed him and pushed him so that he would get into a stumble-animation, granting him the space and time to concentrate on the ball in the air, he jumped perfectly and headed it perfectly into the net. All I did was to press the shoot-button when the ball was near his head. The referee saw of course nothing of the pushing away.

6. There is a nice balance between attack and defense, nothing is overpowered and I guess that is the result of the players being reactive.

7. Individuality of the players shines.

Verdict: PES 5 is a brilliant game but by today's standards not a simulation, it's an arcade-simulation-hybrid that sums up the drama and action of 90-minutes football in a condensed time of 20 minutes. In that it succeeds more than PES 2012 and Fifa 12. Because of the speed and acceleration there is a lot more going on in a single match, and combined with the free ball, there is more unpredictability and the reactiveness of the players lets you feel their power and individuality.

And yet the current games offer new aspects, like manual passing, shooting... and less scripting/assisting, and thanks to 360-degree-movement more freedom on the pitch.

Wouldn't it be great to somehow mix these two worlds to create the ultimate experience?

Thanks to Fifa 12's sliders this is possible and I spent two additional hours last night to get Fifa 12 to feel and look and play like PES 5 but with the modern improvements of 16:9-HD-picture and 360-movement and manual passing/shooting.

It was a success, Fifa 12 with my settings plays and looks now for 90% like PES 5 and it's a thrilling hell of a fun. I'll post the settings in the Fifa-sliders-thread for everyone to try them out.

Another suggestion for Fifa 13: EA should definitely allow slider-settings to be used online. It should be possible to host a game with a specific host-created slider-setting.

The game on default-settings is so lame, but with slider-settings it can be nearly awesome.

If only the AI were considerably upgraded, more slidersettings like for example for fatigue/stamina, pressing (separated for the three areas of the pitch) and ball-control were added and finally a nice momentum/inertia-model built in and proper footplanting introduced to get rid of the skating and to have diverse and realistic tactics for the teams so that playing them is interesting... the list isn't as short as I thought it would be when I began the sentence ... then the game could truly become something special.

Not alot going on around here, heh?

I'm massively enjoying Fifa 12 (some of the goals I made were just awesome) right now with my radically changed slider-settings (which I still tweak to find that magic spot, for example I reduced acceleration to 65 and making runs to 70 as it was a bit extreme before) and camera.

If people have still problems keeping the CPU-AI from making easy goals by simply dribbling around in the goal-area using precision-dribbling, I think I found the cure:

1. When you have your defender in front of the dribbling opponent, use containment-button. It works nearly instantaneously, the CPU-AI will usually give up the dribbling-attempt and seek to pass the ball when you press the containment-button.

2. When you are not in front of the dribbler, but at his side, try to use the B-button (on xbox360). It's the button for pushing or grabbing or putting out the leg, when timed well, it can bring the CPU-dribbler out of balance. Until today I didn't even realize that this feature is in the game.

I will try your sliders once you have settled on them.

I just switched to placebos whichwere almost identical to mine but the small changes seem to make a big difference which was mainly the marking slider so I dont know why that was but its definitely more fun. I dotn exactly know what high marking does to the game. I cant feel it rally but I know if you put marking below 45 its far to easy to score as the defenders give your attackers far to much free space. I assume high marking makes them mark tighter but I dont feel it or see how it changes the game so much, i cant pinpoint why is what I mean. As in low marking makes lots of space and easy to score so high marking makes defenders tighter but how is this changing the game? Apart from this slider most are simialr to mine so this has to be the main thing that is effecting gameplay.

I still can't find love for FIFA I'm afraid. I respect that it's good in some areas, but the scripting is just laughable, and a game breaker for me, even with slider settings. Take a few days ago for example, the game was going along swimmingly. 0-0, Legendary v Sunderland or somebody. 60 minutes of great football, cagey, and back and forth. Then I scored from a corner which just happened, it didn't feel like I controlled the situation at all, as the ball went like 1mph into the net. Then I was containing their midfield guy who was breaking forward, from nowhere, he hits a diagonal high through ball, to which the striker headers, my keeper starts leaving his line for some reason, and lobs over his head. I mean WTF?!? 60 minutes of no goals, then two goals in 30 seconds. I appreciate this happens IRL, but not ALL the time like this. Then to compound things further, their defence just opened like the red sea for me to score an 88th minute goal. THEN, from absolutely nowhere 35 yards out, from a standing position some lame ass midfielder with long shot stats of 58 or something hits the goal of the century, a long range screamer, with no forward momentum, leaving Reina gaping for air. It was quite honestly the best long range goal I'm ever seen ever....and quite literally the most pathetic scripted 90 minute plus equaliser ever. I don't think it even possible to hit a ball THAT hard, that accurate, with that much distance from a standing position. This killed the game for me. Disc was out, and it's stayed there ever since. So many things right, but Christ, so many things wrong also.

pes4lyfe said:

I will try your sliders once you have settled on them.

Click to expand...

Problem is, one day I love the current settings, the other day I hate them, lol!

pes4lyfe said:

I just switched to placebos whichwere almost identical to mine but the small changes seem to make a big difference which was mainly the marking slider so I dont know why that was but its definitely more fun. I dotn exactly know what high marking does to the game. I cant feel it rally but I know if you put marking below 45 its far to easy to score as the defenders give your attackers far to much free space. I assume high marking makes them mark tighter but I dont feel it or see how it changes the game so much, i cant pinpoint why is what I mean. As in low marking makes lots of space and easy to score so high marking makes defenders tighter but how is this changing the game? Apart from this slider most are simialr to mine so this has to be the main thing that is effecting gameplay.

Click to expand...

Yes, the marking is the key strangely. I have put them on 100 and find it better than on 80, I even wish it could go higher than 100. Otherwise there is just too much space which in real life is seldomly granted.

The other thing hugely influencing gameplay is the speed and acceleration settings but I still haven't found the right relation for them.

Passspeed is also important as a low speed allows the ball to be easily intercepted, a higher setting, say 60+ allows fast passes that can't be intercepted easily, which I think is important.

Man, these slidersetting-possibilities are a blessing, but they can drive you crazy, too.

And I have the feeling that even once the perfect setting is found, it can't correct the fundamental problems of Fifa 12, ie. the linear AI, the missing momentum/inertia-model and the ball being stuck on the feet of the players.

ccshopland said:

I still can't find love for FIFA I'm afraid. I respect that it's good in some areas, but the scripting is just laughable, and a game breaker for me, even with slider settings. ...

Click to expand...

I agree, there seems to be scripting going on, but mostly I can feel it coming up, suddenly the CPU makes faster and better passes and their top-player up front gets the ball and is more determined at dribbling... I think it's combatable though, during these momentum-moments I try to interrupt more harshly, even to the point of committing a foul. Also important is to concentrate on the positions of your defenders in those moments and to correct them as good as possible.

Containment-button helps sometimes, too.

I guess EA copied here PES' drama-inducing scripting. In PES 2012 the scripting is imho much stronger though.

henrys hand said:

the missing momentum/inertia-model .

Click to expand...

WHat exaclty does this mean.

As for ccshopland and scripting I really havent noticed any OTT negative effects from it. I mean there is a bit scripting now and then if I look hard for it but nothing that makes the game uncontrolable or seem forced or fake. Only time I really notice it is the step up in CPU pressure at 45/90mins but if you just try harder its easy to prevent goals and sometimes easier to score on counter.

I guess the game has some scripting but its not a major issue of concern for me that makes the game negative in any way for me I go games I see no scripting, maybe Im dumb but I guess thats good for me ha.

THe main problem I have is how the games just play out to similar all the time, the lack of randomness, thats my main gripe. Why this is and how it can be fixed im not sure?

pes4lyfe said:

WHat exaclty does this mean.


THe main problem I have is how the games just play out to similar all the time, the lack of randomness, thats my main gripe. Why this is and how it can be fixed im not sure?

Click to expand...

The missing momentum/inertia and the over-the-top-ball-control are directly causing the lack of randomness you, me and others so desperately miss in Fifa 12.

What I mean by momentum/inertia is this: Imagine a football-player runs with full speed in a certain direction, let's say from right to left in order to stop an offensive opponent player who has the ball. The offensive player is aware of this defender running towards him and sees his speed and takes advantage of it: He makes a sidestep with the ball into the opposite direction and lets the other player "run through" into empty space... The momentum of his speed carries him away and he needs a while to stop and return because of the inertia he has, all the while the ball-carrier is long gone...

That is simply not possible in the game. Yes, thanks to precision dribbling, you can cut certain angles and get around defenders but you can't take advantage of momentum/inertia to gain further space and time.

The other side of the coin is: Imagine you are an attacker and there is a loose ball and you run towards the ball with full speed and you get it a split-second before the defender who was also heading for the loose ball from the opposite direction or imagine a standing defender in that moment and place... you can't take the momentum you have with your speed to outstep the defender which would naturally happen in real life.

And the extreme ball-control further destroys any opportunities for randomness. In real life most players have difficulties with a fast ball, to get it under control and mistakes happen because of it all the time, be it a pass that came so hard that the ball bounces off the foot or that the ball is fast along the sidelines with the player running behind it who can't get it under control fast enough and the ball goes over the sideline or a difficult highball to the chest, slips and... there are numerous examples but in the game... the ball reaches the foot of the player or his chest or whatever, regardless how difficult or fast, the ball comes under control mostly immediately.

These two missing things as well as the linear AI makes the game a bit boring, as it then devolves into a space-finding-mission where you know that when you go with your player that way, then that defender goes like that and when you sidestep him, that other defender comes along and you get that space to cross into... Of course in real life football this space-creating mechanic is also existent and part of the game, but there is more dynamic, more randomness and more surprises due to momentum/inertia, realistic ball-control and more intelligent, more tactical play.

henrys hand said:

The missing momentum/inertia and the over-the-top-ball-control are directly causing the lack of randomness you, me and others so desperately miss in Fifa 12.

What I mean by momentum/inertia is this: Imagine a football-player runs with full speed in a certain direction, let's say from right to left in order to stop an offensive opponent player who has the ball. The offensive player is aware of this defender running towards him and sees his speed and takes advantage of it: He makes a sidestep with the ball into the opposite direction and lets the other player "run through" into empty space... The momentum of his speed carries him away and he needs a while to stop and return because of the inertia he has, all the while the ball-carrier is long gone...

That is simply not possible in the game. Yes, thanks to precision dribbling, you can cut certain angles and get around defenders but you can't take advantage of momentum/inertia to gain further space and time.

The other side of the coin is: Imagine you are an attacker and there is a loose ball and you run towards the ball with full speed and you get it a split-second before the defender who was also heading for the loose ball from the opposite direction or imagine a standing defender in that moment and place... you can't take the momentum you have with your speed to outstep the defender which would naturally happen in real life.

And the extreme ball-control further destroys any opportunities for randomness. In real life most players have difficulties with a fast ball, to get it under control and mistakes happen because of it all the time, be it a pass that came so hard that the ball bounces off the foot or that the ball is fast along the sidelines with the player running behind it who can't get it under control fast enough and the ball goes over the sideline or a difficult highball to the chest, slips and... there are numerous examples but in the game... the ball reaches the foot of the player or his chest or whatever, regardless how difficult or fast, the ball comes under control mostly immediately.

These two missing things as well as the linear AI makes the game a bit boring, as it then devolves into a space-finding-mission where you know that when you go with your player that way, then that defender goes like that and when you sidestep him, that other defender comes along and you get that space to cross into... Of course in real life football this space-creating mechanic is also existent and part of the game, but there is more dynamic, more randomness and more surprises due to momentum/inertia, realistic ball-control and more intelligent, more tactical play.

Click to expand...

Ah I see what you mean thats what I thought.

DIdnt old PES have good momentum. I mean you coudlnt change directions at full speed and if a defender sped to you and you side stepped him he would need to regain himself before he could turn and attempt to defend again. Maybe my memory is vague but Im sure it was like that?

But yeh in fifa there is none of this its like everyone is skating about the park

As an illustration of what is still missing in Fifa, here's a real match between Germany and England from 2007:

YouTube - England vs Germany 07 full match part 2

3:03: Player losing the ball after a simple pass, because he didn't see the player behind him.

3:24-3:27: Player taking advantage of momentum and inertia to gain space.

3:45-3:50: Player can't control a flying ball and loses it to the opponent.

4:33-4:37: Player gets a fast pass and the ball bounces up from his foot and he doesn't have enough time to get the ball under control and he is forced to pass it away.

4:43-4:47: Player gets a ball and three defenders try to squeeze him in the middle and he has to run out of this trap.

4:48-4:51: Look at that nifty flair-passing.

6:40-6:56: See how the players play the ball back and forth doing nothing but stalling until one of their players who is being treated outside is back on the pitch!

6:59-7:02: Look how an opponent predicts a certain pass and runs to the receiver to win the ball, who plays it away and the opponent doesn't lose a beat and just runs further along to the next receiver.

7:39-7:43: The player makes a pass that gets intercepted but the one intercepting can't control the ball, it bounces away and the other team gets to it again.

That's why real life football is so damn enjoyable, interesting and varied and all of that is missing in Fifa 12 due to a missing momentum/inertia-model and due to a nearly always perfect ball-control and due to a linear AI that can't improvise nor think ahead.

henrys hand said:

As an illustration of what is still missing in Fifa, here's a real match between Germany and England from 2007:

YouTube - England vs Germany 07 full match part 2

3:03: Player losing the ball after a simple pass, because he didn't see the player behind him.

3:24-3:27: Player taking advantage of momentum and inertia to gain space.

3:45-3:50: Player can't control a flying ball and loses it to the opponent.

4:33-4:37: Player gets a fast pass and the ball bounces up from his foot and he doesn't have enough time to get the ball under control and he is forced to pass it away.

4:43-4:47: Player gets a ball and three defenders try to squeeze him in the middle and he has to run out of this trap.

4:48-4:51: Look at that nifty flair-passing.

6:40-6:56: See how the players play the ball back and forth doing nothing but stalling until one of their players who is being treated outside is back on the pitch!

6:59-7:02: Look how an opponent predicts a certain pass and runs to the receiver to win the ball, who plays it away and the opponent doesn't lose a beat and just runs further along to the next receiver.

7:39-7:43: The player makes a pass that gets intercepted but the one intercepting can't control the ball, it bounces away and the other team gets to it again.

That's why real life football is so damn enjoyable, interesting and varied and all of that is missing in Fifa 12 due to a missing momentum/inertia-model and due to a nearly always perfect ball-control and due to a linear AI that can't improvise nor think ahead.

Click to expand...

Sure many intricate details of a football game, which is far and away beyond what we would even consider in a football video game years ago..eg. Sensi soccer etc..

But in this day and age can the things you illustrate be adapted and made into a modern day football engine? ANd can it be perfected or have side effects...Eg look at the impact engine its great at times but other times its ridicoals as you have 3 or 4 players all tripping up over each other and falling down etc...Every time you add a new dynamic into the gameplay its going to ahve effects elewhere on the pitch which developers need to consider.

Should there be things like

When ball speed is +70 out of 0-100 scale the player cannot close control it unless he has control 80+ etc..90+control players can control balls up to speed 80. But no player can control a pass or ball that hits them at speed 90+...etc..can they not implement code like this into the game? I dont see why not? A poor player with 50 for ball control cant close control any pass that reaches him at speed 50+ etc..

And things as agility and dribbling could mean that players low in these rating take longer to physically change directions with or without ball etc...

pes4lyfe said:

Sure many intricate details of a football game, which is far and away beyond what we would even consider in a football video game years ago..eg. Sensi soccer etc..

But in this day and age can the things you illustrate be adapted and made into a modern day football engine? ANd can it be perfected or have side effects...Eg look at the impact engine its great at times but other times its ridicoals as you have 3 or 4 players all tripping up over each other and falling down etc...Every time you add a new dynamic into the gameplay its going to ahve effects elewhere on the pitch which developers need to consider.

Should there be things like

When ball speed is +70 out of 0-100 scale the player cannot close control it unless he has control 80+ etc..90+control players can control balls up to speed 80. But no player can control a pass or ball that hits them at speed 90+...etc..can they not implement code like this into the game? I dont see why not? A poor player with 50 for ball control cant close control any pass that reaches him at speed 50+ etc..

And things as agility and dribbling could mean that players low in these rating take longer to physically change directions with or without ball etc...

Click to expand...

Funny thing is that most of these things are implemented in a football game. I fired up PES 2012 today after I got frustrated with Fifa 12 missing these things.

Lo and behold, there is a momentum/inertia-model in PES 2012 and the ball tends to bounce off players when the ball is too fast and the pressure-system is more organized... so indeed in PES 2012 there is a better representation of football, although not perfect as I wished the momentum/inertia-model were even more pronounced as well as the ball-control to be more loose. And the scripting in that game needs some serious concentration to be handled.

Fifa 12 has though the brilliant animations and the better first-touch-capabilities and the ball-physics are better, and the slider-possibilities truly gives the game more life (placebo's settings are very good) . Nonetheless PES 2012 seems to me now like the better football-representation, all huge problems notwithstanding.

I think I will play now PES 2012 for the next few months until PES 2013 and Fifa 13 arrive and then I pick the one that represents football better.

Fifa aint totally dead there is some moments of overhit passes overpowered i mean and some random stuff just not enough. IMo with sliders its way better than pes2012


Anyway funnily talking about randomness in gmaes check what just happened in my last game lol

YouTube - funny fifa.wmv

what that all about? Like play stopped for free kick but there was no foul so i ran and took the ball though i messed finish

Well after 3 months of FIFA I sold it on eBay for 22 quid on thursday and used the money to buy Pes of shopto for 21.50 Friday and it arrived yesterday.

Pes has its flaws but I just can't get into FIFA as much as id like to. Don't know why.

Within a few mins of firing pes up I'd scored a goal that had me jumping off the bed with delight. I just don't get that in FIFA.
I also prefer crossing in pes and those long passes switching play.
I stand by my statement I made about 5 months ago even when I'd bought FIFA after frustrations of pes12 that if you are a long time pes fan then I don't think you can ever enjoy FIFA properly.

I could only play 2 games of FIFA (online as management mode bores me and not interested in UT) before switching it off bored.

Sure pes12 has it problems namely ML which is unplayable this year but it's not so bad.

I'm also back to PES 2012 and at first I found it awful compared to Fifa 12. From a football-perspective it was better right away, but from a game-perspective it felt awful, players didn't have weight, individuality was missing, kick and rush was the order, the goalkeeper (version 1.00) is a joke...

Then I tried gamespeed -2 and the game transformed from an awful game into the best simulation of football in this gen. Gamespeed -2 and gametime on 25-30 mins reveals a different feel of gameplay than the default gamespeed 0 and 10 min.

It's like back in PES 2011 where the simulation-aspects of the game were hidden in the gametimes of 25 mins and more, in PES 2012 it seems like the game was developed for gamespeed -2, where nearly everything works and feels fine.

During the first three matches it felt though like slo-mo compared to speed 0 that I was playing for so long, but then my perception adjusted and I can see the speed and acceleration better.

The goalkeeper still makes unbelievable mistakes (like shielding a slow rolling ball into the net) but at gamespeed -2 he is overall more reliable, probably because the speed of the players and ball are slower and therefore easier to track.

Fifa 12 has some good things going on like better ballphysics, better animation, better goalkeepers but the fundamental football aspects are not right thanks to a missing momentum/inertia-model, wrong form of pressure and average AI.

SteelHorse75 said:

I stand by my statement I made about 5 months ago even when I'd bought FIFA after frustrations of pes12 that if you are a long time pes fan then I don't think you can ever enjoy FIFA properly.

Click to expand...

Depends what you mean by 'properly'. I'd presume that the majority of the people in this thread are long time PES fans.

Edit: or were.

I was a diehard PES player but can't stand it now. Just feels shit to me nowadays. FIFA isn't perfect but overall, imo it's a much better game than PES.

Each to their own though. Never thought I'd be saying this a few years ago but times change I suppose.

There's something missing from FIFA for me.
I just find it boring.
Pes12 of course has its problems but I've played 6 games this afternoon.
It would take me about 4 days to do that with FIFA.
I'm sitting here wanting to play again and I dont get that with FIFA.

Each to their own though I guess..

I enjoy fifa 12 for 2 or 3 games it actually seems amazing especially when you have gone more than 3 days without playing it. The models, graphics, shooting, even the gameplay.

But by the time I play my 4th game in a row (against CPU that is) I just get a feeling off oh here we go again, same thing over and over...It sucks, dunno why this is? Is it me getting bored easy or the games really do play out the same over and over?

Im thinking off starting up a master league on pes3 again just to see why it got me so hooked but I think maybe the games far to dated?

Both ML is pes and MM in Fifa are boring as hell.
Well, ML is annoying as hell and MM is just dull. Too easy to buy and sell players. By end of Aug you can ship your entire squad out and get a new one in. You can sell any player, no matter how rubbish they are, within 7 days.

SteelHorse75 said:

Both ML is pes and MM in Fifa are boring as hell.
Well, ML is annoying as hell and MM is just dull. Too easy to buy and sell players. By end of Aug you can ship your entire squad out and get a new one in. You can sell any player, no matter how rubbish they are, within 7 days.

Click to expand...

I enjoyed ML on old pes games a lot. If you mean new ones I dunno but old master league on ps2 was fun.

Manager mode transfers are not very sim like it aint football manager for sure its just an arcade management thing were its easy enough to buy and sell players no stress, more about the leagues and the games. Its not very in depth or restricted. But thats cool somewhat.

pes4lyfe said:

I enjoyed ML on old pes games a lot. If you mean new ones I dunno but old master league on ps2 was fun.

Manager mode transfers are not very sim like it aint football manager for sure its just an arcade management thing were its easy enough to buy and sell players no stress, more about the leagues and the games. Its not very in depth or restricted. But thats cool somewhat.

Click to expand...

I loved master league until Pes11.
Pes12 ML is broken and unplayable.