Your Favourite No. 10 of all Time

Re: Who is the best that put on the No. 10?

Zidane of course (Maradona and Platini too much offensif for a playmaker)
 
Re: Who is the best that put on the No. 10?

Zinedine Zidane.

I'd like to say Maradona but I was not born during his era and did not knew much about him when I first began to love football.
 
Changed the title. Still at Zizou. France will simply not have another player of his calibre as a playmaker. Some say Gourcuff, but Zidane at Gourcuff's age(maybe 1-2 years older) had already lead France to a EURO and a WC :))
 
there's only one name when u talk about number 10:
PELE
he was the one that invented this number 10 culture...before him number 10 didnt mean anything...

now if ure talking about the number 10 of the modern era of football, i would think of Roberto Baggio.
 
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The best: Pele
Next: Maradonna and Zidane.

My favourite: Zico

Now: Luka Modric

But also: Johan Cruijff

edit: how could i forget my absolute all-time favourite: "il principe": Giuseppe Giannini...and also Gianni Rivera...
 
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Bergkamp.

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gerd said:
The best: Pele
Next: Maradonna and Zidane.

My favourite: Zico

Now: Luka Modric

But also: Johan Cruijff

edit: how could i forget my absolute all-time favourite: "il principe": Giuseppe Giannini...and also Gianni Rivera...
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gerd as aways, quality post, i co-sign the bold part, the others are personal choices imo

My favourite(that i saw playing): R.Baggio

Now: Mikel Arteta

Best season i saw by a number 10: Alex for Cruzeiro in 2003, just magical...
please check this up if u have the time, its his highlights from ONE season where he won the state, the cup and national championship here(keep in mind this is only his goals, as a number 10 u gotta assist to, imagine what he did besides goals!):
YouTube - VÃDEO ALEX, O TALENTO AZUL CRUZEIRO 2003
 
to be honest there are some names in here wich shouldn't really be associated to the number 10.

pelè, baggio, rooney, del piero, they aren't proper n.10.... at least if we stick to the usual association "number 10 = fantasista".
being a number 10 it's not just a matter of style, of contribution to the game of approach, but it's also a matter of role.

baggio, and alessandro both have amazing assisting abilities, but that alone doesn't make them number 10s, because their interpretation of the game, their position on the pitch, aren't not the proper number 10's ones. they're much closer to the supporting striker role (whose number is "11", according to the old fashioned role-number association).

and even pele, crujff and bergkamp.... they're are all pretty much universal players (it's really hard to say wich was their proper role) but still i wouldn't call them "fantasisti" (pele definitely was not a fantasista.... i might have more doubts about dennis and crujff).

the number 10 is not a universal player: he is a fantasista, and nothing else... like zico or maradona or pele, or rivera or zidane or platini or rui costa.
they were pure, proper number 10s..... too bad this kind of player is an endangered species nowadays. all the fantasisti today are forced to play as wingers or supporting strikers or deep playmakers, coz the constant growth of the pace of the game all over europe (except uk, but british football always had a crazy pace afterall) doesn't allow our coaches to "waste" a player on that role.:(
 
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Ballack, Totti, Kaka (Seedorf, Pirlo maybe) are the only according to what you say fantasti players I could think about now a days. All of them play out of an AM position.

The only way you can get get this kind of player is if you play 2 pure strikers upfront, but the last time I recall that happening was when Lippi used to play Toni and Gila...
 
lo zio said:
to be honest there are some names in here wich shouldn't really be associated to the number 10.

pelè, baggio, rooney, del piero, they aren't proper n.10.... at least if we stick to the usual association "number 10 = fantasista".
being a number 10 it's not just a matter of style, of contribution to the game of approach, but it's also a matter of role.

baggio, and alessandro both have amazing assisting abilities, but that alone doesn't make them number 10s, because their interpretation of the game, their position on the pitch, aren't not the proper number 10's ones. they're much closer to the supporting striker role (whose number is "11", according to the old fashioned role-number association).

and even pele, crujff and bergkamp.... they're are all pretty much universal players (it's really hard to say wich was their proper role) but still i wouldn't call them "fantasisti" (pele definitely was not a fantasista.... i might have more doubts about dennis and crujff).

the number 10 is not a universal player: he is a fantasista, and nothing else... like zico or maradona or pele, or rivera or zidane or platini or rui costa.
they were pure, proper number 10s..... too bad this kind of player is an endangered species nowadays. all the fantasisti today are forced to play as wingers or supporting strikers or deep playmakers, coz the constant growth of the pace of the game all over europe (except uk, but british football always had a crazy pace afterall) doesn't allow our coaches to "waste" a player on that role.:(
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I agre with you Ben, i mentioned Pele because i'm not sure what "no 10" was supposed to mean...Pele played with number 10, but he was not a fantasista (Cruijff wasn't either).

I just finçished a fantastic book about football tactics: "Inverting the pyramid" by Jonathan Wilson (the same author of a great book about football in Eastern Europe). It's a must read for footbaal fanatics like you.

At the end of the book Wilson says that there is once again a place for a fantasista and he metnions Croatia wihich plays with two playmakers: Nico Krancjar (although not in a traditional playmaker's role) and Modric (to Wilson the prototype of the new playmaker). But the book was written before England thrashed Croatia a couple of months ago...This big defeat could change Bilic's game plan with two fantasista's....this is one of the things that reoccur in the book. New tactics emerge after big defeats...

After reading that book i'm convinced that Modric (one of my favourite players) will never be at his best in the current Spurs line-up...Spurs need to buy other players in order to let Modric shine...they should play with two defensive minded midfielders (Jenas is the weak link in Spurs team, not because he does not perform well, but a Jenas type of player will never be a good thing in a team with Modric...).
 
Zeem said:
Ballack, Totti, Kaka (Seedorf, Pirlo maybe) are the only according to what you say fantasti players I could think about now a days. All of them play out of an AM position.
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u see, that's the point. totti, kakà, seedorf, pirlo, they are natural born fantasisti. but how many of them actually play in the n. 10 position today? totti plays as a foward, kakà played as a ss last season (although now ancelotti is moving him backwards again... but not really on the centre, coz that would put him too close to ronaldinho), pirlo became a deep playmaker (whose number in the role-number association should be "5"), seedorf didn't play 3 consecutive matches in the same role in the last 3 years.
and i could go on for days, diego, ribery, van der vaart, they all have a "fantasista soul", but none of em really plays in the fantasista's proper position.

right now i could think of just a few fantasisti who still play in their natural position; iniesta, riquelme, arteta and veron (there are probably a few others i don't recall right now).
somone might put in that list also hamsik, ballack, gerrard and aquilani, but honestly i wouldn't call them fantasisti. they are midfielders who are also a great offensive threat, but their interpretation of the game is quite different from the fantasista's one (u can clearely see the style difference between zidane and ballack, for instance).

in my honest opinion this is one of the biggest damages that the growth of the pace did to football in the last 10 years.

The only way you can get get this kind of player is if you play 2 pure strikers upfront, but the last time I recall that happening was when Lippi used to play Toni and Gila...
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not necessarily. during his last season in firenze toni was a lone striker with mutu playing as a pure fantasista just behind him (i wouldn't call mutu a fantasista, but that season he played like a proper nr. 10).
and a few years ago palermo used to play with toni as a lone foward and zauli behind him.

i do believe that theoretically an offensive line up with a lone striker, a fantasista behind him and 2 old style wingers (to relieve the pressure on the nr. 10) on the flanks could still be quite effective..... but i must be wrong, coz almost nobody displays this kind of line up today.
a good reason might be that today there are no old style wingers anymore. most of them tend to cut on the centre continuously (and that would make such a line up pretty narrowed).

Gerd said:
At the end of the book Wilson says that there is once again a place for a fantasista and he metnions Croatia wihich plays with two playmakers: Nico Krancjar (although not in a traditional playmaker's role) and Modric (to Wilson the prototype of the new playmaker).
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the thing is a playmaker is not necessarily a fanasista. pirlo is a playmaker, but he's not a fantasista, for instance, as well as baggio.
mordric has a great potential, but it's still too early to say what kind of player he will eventually become.

i wrote a post about the downfall of "numbers 10" in europe on the serie a thread time ago. and as i said that day, to me, it's not just a matter of pace anymore; it's also a matter of mentality.
the influence of economy in football forces our clubs to win at any cost (trophies bring money and sponsors wich are vital to sustain our clubs facilities and to feed the top players).
winning has always been important of course, but today for a football club winning is not just important, is vital, coz it's the only way to survive, to keep up with the raising costs of the football inndustry.
now, considering this, a tactical line up with a fantasista (theoretically) isn't the wisest choice. because, as i wrote in that post on the serie a thread....
the problem with this kind of players is that, in order to fit any kind of line up, they have to become the "core" of the team.
their coaches have to "build the team around them". this is quite a risky decision, especially for a top club
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it's a risky decision coz if u build the team around a single player, and then something goes wrong (an injury, a bad form period), then the whole season is fucked.
that's why i can't see any room for fantasisti in football today (unfortunately).

thanks for the tip about the book Gerd, gonna take a look at it (i just bought that john foot's book u suggested me time ago, but still didn't find the time to read it:P)
 
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lo zio said:
to be honest there are some names in here wich shouldn't really be associated to the number 10.

pelè, baggio, rooney, del piero, they aren't proper n.10.... at least if we stick to the usual association "number 10 = fantasista".
being a number 10 it's not just a matter of style, of contribution to the game of approach, but it's also a matter of role.

baggio, and alessandro both have amazing assisting abilities, but that alone doesn't make them number 10s, because their interpretation of the game, their position on the pitch, aren't not the proper number 10's ones. they're much closer to the supporting striker role (whose number is "11", according to the old fashioned role-number association).



and even pele, crujff and bergkamp.... they're are all pretty much universal players (it's really hard to say wich was their proper role) but still i wouldn't call them "fantasisti" (pele definitely was not a fantasista.... i might have more doubts about dennis and crujff).

the number 10 is not a universal player: he is a fantasista, and nothing else... like zico or maradona or pele, or rivera or zidane or platini or rui costa.
they were pure, proper number 10s..... too bad this kind of player is an endangered species nowadays. all the fantasisti today are forced to play as wingers or supporting strikers or deep playmakers, coz the constant growth of the pace of the game all over europe (except uk, but british football always had a crazy pace afterall) doesn't allow our coaches to "waste" a player on that role.:(
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well sorry m8 but i cant agree with someone that says pele wasnt a number 10..
the man invented the number 10 shirt. before him number 10 didnt mean anything , it was just a number, he made this shirt famous.
i do understand what ure saying, but the name of the thread doesnt say anything about the player having to be the "trequartista(italy)" or the " enganche(argentina)"
number 10 for me is a player that is totally above the other players in the matter of creation, passing and evan shooting, for me the number 10 player has to be complete, that player that in a 0-0 bore game will change things up with one magical movment, pass or shoot.

if u think about the kind of number 10 ure saying, than we wont be talkign about a shirt number but about a playing role...

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if u think about the kind of number 10 ure saying, than we wont be talkign about a shirt number but about a playing role...
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not just a role actually. u see the word trequartista (or offensive midfielder) describes a role. the word fantasista describes a trequartista who also has something special (in terms of vision, technique, passing game). to put it simple, it also describes your "soul" (or, to say it in a less dramatic way, your approach to the game).

hamsik, lampard, gerrard, they're trequartisti (or offensive midfielders, as an english would say), but they're not fantasisti.
pirlo on the other hand has a fantasista's approach to the game, but he's not an offensive midfielder (he's a nr. 5 rather than a nr. 10).
:)
however i thought when Zeem was talking about "nr. 10s" he was referring to the old fashioned role-number connection (10 for fantasisti, 7 for wingers, 5 for deep playmakers, 9 for cf, 11 for ss, and so on).
if that's not what he meant, then i went brutally off topic, so my apologies :P:)
 
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