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What does Konami actually think? (A bit big, sorry but please read)

Discussion in 'Winning Eleven' started by lanrie19, 18 March 2006.

  1. lanrie19

    lanrie19 Non-League

    2 February 2003
    I just read someones thread about the woeful structure of the Master League and Konami's failure to replicate world football leagues i.e. FIFA. I was just wondering... What does Konami actually think about the Master League and Licenses? Do they think we are extremely satisfied with its current form or do they understand how the majority of people are absolutely pissed of with their efforts of securing licenses and making the leagues remotely reflect real life. One major question that has been bothering me is, has anyone actually contacted them? I mean like MASS emails from all the Pro Evo/Winning Eleven Forums? Like a massive campaign from every other Pro Evo/Winning Eleven Website out there. If no one says anything then how will they know there is a problem? I am pretty sure that we could generate a MASSIVE amount of support if we all pull together with everybody's help we would at least get them seriously considering improvement. I thought that konami were making efforts for the licenses but all I keep hearing is "improvements to Master League this and better gameplay that". That doesnt sound like they are even interested in getting any Licenses, anytime soon... These are just little things that bother me, I have been playing this game since ISS Deluxe and I thought by now we would have pretty impressive graphics with Management rivaling Champ Manager! Don't get me wrong, the graphics are very good not really complaining about that but Konami are no doubt falling short. Anyway, I suppose this is just another rant like any other on this discussion board - it wont come to anything. We are satisfied complaining to the wrong people instead of directing our efforts at Konami. I had such high hopes for this franchise but every year it just seems to let me down. I just thought that since (I hear) FIFA's license is running out this year, this would be the opportunity for Konami to make a bid for it. But since we keep buying their product and raising their sales what would be the need for Konami to invest in it?

    I think we need to rally a massive campaign online, T.V., magazines anything and everything. I'm thinking funny banners at football matches urging Konami for licenses I am sure whacky T.V. progams like soccer A.M. play Pro Evo and would be willing to contribute. Nuts, FHM, PSM2, Xbox360 printing articles in their magazines showing what some mad Pro Evo fan did "This Month" in protest at some football Match or something. I am so sure it would catch on! Its time for this forum to be part of something great!

    Konami have lost their way and need guidance, let it be us who gives them direction before they run this series to the ground and bore all its fans!
  2. Abhishek

    Abhishek Best player in the world

    29 January 2006
    Well, you know its not a bad idea, the big campaign thing, dont know how it will work though, y dont u start it

    Regarding licenses, Konami needs a lot of money to aquire the licenses and i think EA have the exclusive FIFA licence, but Konami have done a decent job in providing good in game editors, and patching is very useful as well

    The ML, is somewhere even I am a bit dissapointed, only 4 leagues, is a bit too less, cant make it realistic

    Otherwise, Konami have done a gr8 job with the game, gr8 gameplay, the gameplay isnt as good as the old iss games, but still better than any other game around. So personally, im happy with the game, but the campaign idea does seem to be a good idea
  3. embraceuk1

    embraceuk1 Original Member Since 2001

    30 December 2001
    Indiana USA (Scottish)
    Nottingham Forest
    The problem is when Seabass is interviewed he always goes on about how he is completely satisfied with the masterleague.
    I don't think they think like us and have never played games like SWOS etc.

    I don't care about licenses so much but the masterleague is where the game could so easily be fixed and become such an amazing game.
    Last edited: 18 March 2006
  4. ByTPA

    ByTPA Non-League

    16 December 2005
    FK Vozdovac

    i agree, because you could patch game whatever you like, you could even patch licensed team but you can do nothing about master league
  5. Nick Cave

    Nick Cave Wrexham fan for my sins...

    10 July 2004
    Non football league waste land...
    Wrexham AFC
    If Seabass is happy with the ML then he knows or cares nothing about football but probebly loves soccer!!!
  6. studeep

    studeep ManUnited academy

    29 June 2005
    Manchester United
    well said!! :(
  7. twophases

    twophases Hooked on editing

    3 June 2004
    Team F, Other Leagues C
    You are right. I think he's anti-football & pro-soccer. Football & soccer being as different as night & day right? Not really.
  8. denirobob

    denirobob IBERIAN PRIMERA

    28 June 2002
    Henley, Oxfordshire
    I think as PLF and others have pointed out before, Seabass and Konami's interest in European Club is almost certainly at the highest level e.g. the Champions League and the games biggest stars etc..

    That's why so much time is spent by them on faces, boots etc.. whereas you journeyman footballer playing for a lesser team in a smaller league gets no attention at all.

    This then reinforces their opinion (in my opinion!) that the purpose of a winning a Country's league is only a stepping stone to the real action, rather than a valid objective in its own right.

  9. Sunrise

    Sunrise Guest

    And the fact that there's not a bonus or restriction in sight for using lesser teams online, might back up that point.

    Kinda sick of choosing an average team, only to play against Brazil for the umpteenth time. Not that I despise these guys or anyting, just not my cup of tea. I would like to play against others who like playing with average teams like Livorno, Getafe or FC Utrecht.

    They could easily invent a playing mode where people willing to play with lesser team fight off against eachother. Just as simple as restricting by using the option 'national teams only' or 'club teams only'. But have they, in their second online outing? No.
  10. PLF

    PLF Legend

    2 August 2004
    @Lanrie, your ideas are good in starting a campaign or in some way letting them hear us and what we want instead of always just talking about it on these forums which we're not even sure if they ever visit (although it makes sense if they do as Evo is one of the biggest PES sites out there and people at times do say Seabass reads here but who really knows for sure?? Sure we've all heard it from interviews and etc. but half of it bullshit anyway)

    SO I'm all up for that, only thing where I'm not with you anymore is the licenses. Sure the more the merrier and it'd be great to have them but it takes money and it's not that big a deal since we can fix that area of game ourselves. Hell I'm totally fine if they took AWAY licenses we had in last game but just gave us this SIMPLEST of features that ANY Basic football game should have (Realistic league structure) but we still haven't been given.

    I like you get SHOCKED at this sometimes! :shock:

    That how is it that something this important this easy to do for people who made such realistic gameplay which is tons more complicated keeps getting overlooked ](*,) and only thing I can think of that makes some sense in a weird retarded way is what Embrace has been saying. Unfortuantely it seems Mr. Seabass nor most of the Japanese consumers give a Fuck about having a real league structure like we have in (League mode but with ML features of players increasing/decreasing/aging).. thats all i wanted.. very simple hell I'd be happy with PES6 if it was same game but with ML Structure fixed (I know sounds messed up) but thats how crucial I see this change that needs to be done and that's why I'm up for whatever it takes to let them know this current model of 16 teams and 4 divisions plus an 8 team Div 2 is Bullcrap and i dont know where the hell they got it from when we can have 6 real full leagues of 20 teams which they already have in game.. with ML features and PROPER Uefa Cup and Proper CL where you can't get into CL by finishing 6th.. so many things that can be easily fixed to make this like a real football league of European top leagues is just ignored year after year and only possible explanation to this would be what Embrace and I and others have said for long time (They just simply don't care or see necessity.. most are prolly bunch of stupid people just taking Real vs. Inter Milan in exhibitions all the time #-o or making unrealistic European superleague ML's and having time of their lives not caring what they're playing doesn't replicate ANY top league's real strcuture in anyway). :|

    Plus if you think about it, PES has some of the best fans any games has. Not only do we spend money each year to buy the game and support Konami but we're not just lazy people to get that and play either. Many of us do edits to make imperfections of game like lack of licenses go away and have done so for a looooooooooooooooong time.

    We have wonderful kitmakers here, facemakers, I myself find the database the game comes with absolutely disgusting in lower teams and unplayable until I take 2-3 months out of my spare time to fix the stats even AFTER I've already cashed out $$$ on this 2-3 months before.. yet you dont see me or any other person who works to make this game better complain.. cuz we've learned this is way it is.

    So what does that say about us? We're hardworkers, we don't expect much and only thing we actually ask for is a REALISTIC League with ML features that should be as basic and as simple of idea as the ball that's in game to be played with or Exhibition mode :lol: to be included yet it's like we're asking too much??? and keep getting ignored about this.

    So at end of the day the only thing we actually WANT from them is something we can't even fix ourselves (ML crappy structure) otherwise there is tons of great people here who sacrifice many things to make this game better for themselves and for others like patchmakers, supporter flag makers etc and I'm sure if it was within their power, they would've fixed this too and not complain about it but seeing as it's impossible only KONAMI can fix this ridiculous thing and we'll be happy with all the game's imperfections again as we'll spend the money and $hitload of our free time into making those things go away.

    My "Angered" 2 cents! As this topic always makes me angry when it comes up of course

    Sorry for the long boring rant but once I got started on how stupid this issue is that me, Embrace and 1000000 others have complained about yet still not fixed, it all just came naturally :p (In anycase if someone's not interested, they shouldn't read so I guess I shouldn't really apologize)

    Rant over.
  11. Chris Davies

    Chris Davies Chief PESsimist Staff

    14 May 2003
    Tranmere Rovers
    Replying directly to the title of this thread, it's my belief that Seabass and crew have had complaints from the Japanese public about not being able to play as their favourite non-Japanese-Premier-League side, and they've answered their prayers with the J-League editions of the game, which they're not planning on doing for us Europeans.

    I think that what Seabass thinks is that they've made their games, they've made them how they want them, they've made them how the Japanese public want them and that's the end of the story. European gamers aren't on the agenda - WE is ported to Europe as PES and that's it. They don't make versions exclusively for Europe, they're a Japanese company and they've catered for their audience brilliantly. Your average Japanese Joe Bloggs doesn't want to see his team in the UEFA Champions League. He wants to see his team playing the teams in his league in Japan/Korea. If he gets the urge to play as David Beckham's team, he's got the normal version of the game to be Real Madrid in a Master League - which is all they want. They're happy.

    I don't think our wants and needs (especially of SWOS-style league structures, what with license issues these days) are going to be met by any games company out there, bar an English company with the same goals as Seabass's team (but for their country, or their continent when it comes to Champions League inclusion etc).

    Hopefully at some point, some games designing team will see that there's a gap in the market for an ultra-realistic, all-containing football game, in English, with all of the English teams, all of the European teams and proper league systems that can last forever, FIFA/Football Manager style.

    Either that, or the team behind FIFA/This is Football/Club Football will go "hang on a minute, our gameplay is utter tripe really isn't it? Let's copy Pro Evo's gameplay", and then we'll have what we want.

    I've written to Seabass over and over, and the PES team. I've sent the same letter ten times, and different letters thirty times. They're not listening, they're doing what they want (or at the most, what the Japanese public want), and there's nothing we can do about it.

    If I didn't have a life I'd say we might as well kill ourselves. :(
  12. BK_83

    BK_83 World Class

    7 June 2003
    lets face it... we dont get proper master league system unless someone like "V for Vendetta" sneaks up to SEABASS and threaten him with his knifes
  13. Madrileno

    Madrileno EVIVA LA LIGAAAA

    18 June 2005
    Real Madrid
    OHHH SWOS ......... those days :(

    Just imagine SWOS with Winning Eleven gampley :(

    Why cant we have this, we have sent men on the moon already and we cant have this ?
  14. BK_83

    BK_83 World Class

    7 June 2003
    its just a small bit of programming to convert to 20 teams per league.. yet they cant do it
  15. Nick Cave

    Nick Cave Wrexham fan for my sins...

    10 July 2004
    Non football league waste land...
    Wrexham AFC
    OOOhhh get you!!!
  16. Nick Cave

    Nick Cave Wrexham fan for my sins...

    10 July 2004
    Non football league waste land...
    Wrexham AFC
    As we all know Konami don't want to add depth to thier cash cow so we keep forking out for every little tweek they come up with and not think oh i'm nearly into the playoff's in division 2, i may miss this months release and wait for PES5LEi.05.
    Depth in a konami product... not this century
  17. embraceuk1

    embraceuk1 Original Member Since 2001

    30 December 2001
    Indiana USA (Scottish)
    Nottingham Forest
    What do you expect Konami to do?.

    Have you seen the official WE10 thread these ppl get so excited other the crappiest of upgrades for a game thats gonna cost $60.

    We need to tell Konami that this isn't good enough.

    The only good thing i have heard about WE10 is the International challenge.
    Movable hair, A few more licensees etc just is not good enough.
  18. lanrie19

    lanrie19 Non-League

    2 February 2003
    Reading your replies (particularly PLF's and Jack Bauer's) I painfully concede that maybe we are just not a part of Seabass agenda. As far as he is concerned we should be lucky to get a port of Pro Evo. I agree that maybe I am asking for too much in regards to the licenses given Konami's attitude towards the Europeans but in no way do I feel that my expectations are too high! I would settle for no licenses with a good league structure, but the the Master League is awful! I think we need to get Seabass to hold us in much higher regard. We need to get him to address our needs because I feel that Europe would be a much bigger gold mine than Japan if he just got his act together!
  19. PLF

    PLF Legend

    2 August 2004
    Completely agree with you Lanrie but as sad as some of the things you said are I'm afraid I agree and it's the truth :(

    MERCURIAL hellas

    10 August 2003
    Could be Konami does not want a lawsuit from EA concerning their WE/PES Series,considering Konami do not have ALL Licences for Teams or Players,which WE/PES has done a great job making into the game.EA does not wat to bother Konami either,seeing that WE/PES is far surperior product than that FIFA sh!t they call football.ML structure is the way it is coause it is a give-take relationship between the two competing soccer titles.
    It is only an opionion but i think could happen.
  21. snakeranyking

    snakeranyking Roony

    7 August 2004
    i on the other hand disagree with most of you in the point where you all say that seabass is not listening to us hell he isn't look from game to game how many things did you ask for in let's say we6 and got how many of them in we7 a lot i would say and look at we9 and 10 the auto side step
    bothered a lot of people so thay got it of the goal animation as well and thay fixed it it's not like thay work for us or something so we say fix that and fix that and zap thay will forget it people thay lestin but thay can't do every thing duo to varius reasons like licenses every freakin body whine about it and thay don't realize that it takes money and the other part saying yes to get it in game so don't push it ok and for gamplay don't whine about it it's better than any other and for example ea didn''t change gameplay at all from 2004 to 2006 only some controles
    and that's it and as for the menu screen it can be better but face the truth it's a soccer or football or whatever you want to call it game so the menu and sound is not a key feature like gamplay player animation
    i will put it all in a math equation

    great gamplay + great animations + good control = Konami
    Great menus + Great sounds + Great puplicity = Electronic Arts

    choose your favored equation that leads to a great football experiance
    and stop complaining say suggestions like you should include this and that but don't whine about a thing you got and that's the way i see it
  22. Nick Cave

    Nick Cave Wrexham fan for my sins...

    10 July 2004
    Non football league waste land...
    Wrexham AFC
    I'd just like to see more depth to the game,I could live without the super deep analysis after the game ie every touch and time a player spent where and just give us four full divisions and the ability to edit in every team there is forget about licences make em all team 1,2,3,4,5 etc!!
    It's not hard but it would add more depth ie longevity to the game and that's not what Konami want!!

    Oh sorry was that a whine or a suggestion ?
  23. snakeranyking

    snakeranyking Roony

    7 August 2004
    a suggestion and i might ad a good one to but you missed the point of my post i didn't mean post's like yours i meant post's like some of the above i mean the post that say's will i hate this and that and the game sucks and blah blah blah without making a suggestion how to make it better
    Last edited: 25 March 2006
  24. Nick Cave

    Nick Cave Wrexham fan for my sins...

    10 July 2004
    Non football league waste land...
    Wrexham AFC
    Just being a sarcastic sod on my part ;) , I know it gets annoying when people just come on and moan about the game without putting forward solutions, but hey if it wasn't so good to start with would we really care with the passion some have on here!! This site seams to arouse so much passion and argument I can't imagine any Parliament being half as intense at times!!!
  25. chocovla

    chocovla Non-League

    14 March 2003
    The "funny" thing is, we used to have 3 divisions and an all league cup system. I would even be happy if that was put back in the game (was it removed in WE7?) I loved it when in the cup I could play Madrid or Milan with my crappy team and I had the opportunity to mount a promotion campaign which spans more than one season. I'm just deeply disappointed with the way the Master League has been handled sinds the regional divisions were introduced. And when I look at the "improvements" in WE10 I fear for that release as well. Come on what do I care if the original England/Brazil kits are in or tucked shirts and wavy hair. I just want good solid gameplay (they got that covered) and an engrossing realistic league campaign. The most frustrating part is when you watch the excellent league system on Fifa, shame about the gameplay though ;-)
  26. lumlum

    lumlum Premiership

    3 August 2003
    I think Konami don't want to develope the Master League so that they can sell their Managment Game, which I am very sure will become a regular series. Otherwise if they made the ML the way it should've been done then there wouldn't be any need to buy their managment game, as it's just the WE engine being played by the CPU.
  27. embraceuk1

    embraceuk1 Original Member Since 2001

    30 December 2001
    Indiana USA (Scottish)
    Nottingham Forest
    I don't think we will have to worry about that if ppl actually forget for a second it has Pro evolution in the title and truly judge it, the management game stinks and sales should reflect this.
  28. jumbo

    jumbo Premiership

    30 May 2003
    WE Heaven
    Maybe they don't want to replicate real world leagues?

    WE has always been a sim as far as gameplay and arcade as far as gamemodes.

    To me ML would lose all of its appeal if I had to play a normal league format when I can do that in the League mode.

    Plus, ML is all about starting from 0 and buildin your dream team. Image pickin Man Utd. and having to play EPL with Castellos and Mirandas.

    Fantasy and reality elements don't mix all that well.

    As far as I'm concerned KONAMI has a UNIQUE career mode and that ain't gonna change soon.
  29. PLF

    PLF Legend

    2 August 2004
    Konami don't have to take away the options you as a person like in ML to give us what we want in terms of a realistic structure.

    They can still keep option so you get to pick your team from zero with Castelo and co but also give those of us who want to play a real league but with players actually increasing in stats/decreasing as they move past peak and a realistic evolution and not just a world that stays same yet with a realistic structure.

    Plus I do build my side up, you don't have to do that with only Castello and the rest of the imaginary boys. I'd rather do that with a real life team like Nancy or Troyes and build them through the years with great success and REALISTIC transfers to a respectable side through the years.

    We can't do what we want in league mode and that's why the league mode is more than useless to many of us. Is there a point playing your 17 year old midfielder in league mode when you have 5 other options all better than him in stats? No.

    Is there a point to giving that player his debut in team or some playing time in an ML game when you're up 3-0 or in a cup tie where you have a heavy lead from first leg? Yes because that playing time will develop his stats as he grows through the years to become a flop or a fine player.

    I never play a league because there is no variables that change. The guy who is already 3 years past his peak and you can feel in real life getting worst and losing more physical attributes in each game in real life doesn't get worst but he'll stay same in "LEAGUE MODE" where as in ML, this will be quite realistically portrayed.

    Same goes fo the 17 year old youngster as he'll remain with the same crappy stats every youngster once starts with till he's 24, 28, 35 and no decreaseing or increasing or anything have happened like its natural pattern.. for me that's ultra unrealistic so that's already a big NO to league mode unless I want to play just one real season and not care about realism part which never happens.

    So there already considering that little thing, the league mode becomes useless to many of us, that leaves us to play the Master League mode where it has some of the realistic features we do want yet has the crappy structure of a 16 team division and not form of a real league.

    So basically most of us or at least me want the features that ML offers BUT with a real structure that league modes comes with and I don't think combining these two at all is hard, Konami just can't be arsed and that's why many of us have ranted about this.

    So conclusion is that no the league mode is certainly not a subsitute to what we want at all since it has none of the realistic features ML has yet only thing we want from it is the structure of the 20 team divisions and etc.

    But if you want to play real league with no ML features or with Castelo, I agree that the game should come so these options are available definitely to those who do enjoy them like you, Jumbo.

    My 2 cents and no nobody is moaning Snaker, at least not me. Obviously the game play is great but things like this need to be stated and aren't called "Moaning"! So I don't know what you're on about unless you're talking about someone else whose replies I've missed and not me ;)
    Last edited: 28 March 2006

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