WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread

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shilam0unainai said:
defence is a work of art as previously had posted. offence had always been perfect.The thing is you cannot master pes in a month or 2 unlike FIFA of course.There is nothing wrong with pes gameplay never was(except pes2, just the eur version)
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and this is why we get the same shit the last two years...

if you mastered WE8i, you are pretty much set to the current version, not that much has changend...
 
shilam0unainai said:
defence is a work of art as previously had posted. offence had always been perfect.The thing is you cannot master pes in a month or 2 unlike FIFA of course.There is nothing wrong with pes gameplay never was(except pes2, just the eur version)
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I think you are generalizing. You are taking your experiences and making them a general statement that you seem to insinuate applies to all people.

I'm sure there are people who have "mastered" (whatever that means, would you mind telling me the conditions you need to pass to have "mastered" pes?) PES in shorter time than months. Also FIFA, according to you, having a shorter adjustment/learning time, might just as well be evidence of it being alot better designed and constructed, making controlling and playing it alot more logical and natural (whereas PES usually takes time since you need to learn all the different conditions where logic doesn't apply and you need to learn the games way rather than applying the real-world way to do it).

For example, in certain conditions you cannot pass to a teammate because the game will almost always auto-aim wrong in that particular situation (In FIFA you would simply need to point the analog stick and power up appropriately). For example if you are running close to the endline and strike a Lofted Throughpass in PES, the ball will usually land somewhere on the stands. Whereas in FIFA you just aim and pass without autoaiming screwing with you.

So you could just aswell argue that PES takes longer to "master" since it is illogical, poorly designed and you simply need to repeat situations over and over and waste time until you learn in which situations the game will screw up passes or shots etc, and learning to work around the flaws.
 
shilam0unainai said:
defence is a work of art as previously had posted. offence had always been perfect.The thing is you cannot master pes in a month or 2 unlike FIFA of course.There is nothing wrong with pes gameplay never was(except pes2, just the eur version)
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The problem i find, and maybe others too, is that i'm just doing the same as i've always done on pes, and it's getting boring.

I've tried to play in new ways, but the ai just isn't up to it and the lack of manual passing means i'm too often at the cpu's mercy. Developers have tried to allow for more delicate passes to be played, but they happen at the wrong time ending up in soft passes when there should be swift passes.

And the implementation of the long pass must be the most one-eyed approach to programming in the history of pes. The passes are so fast they're good for only one thing, a swift pass wing to wing. Any other lobbed pass just whizzes out of play. You'd expect the current system to be the first attempt where they realised it just wasn't working and could never be left as it is for retail, you know, about 8 months before going gold.

Also, now, there's no satisfaction in dribbling or shooting as its too easy.
I'm hoping for massive improvements for pes 2009, but seabass is straining at credibility and more importantly integrity. My hopes are also dashed by this: he says that for pes2009, one of his main aims is to tighten the players control with respect to using the d-pad. I think that limits movement to 8 directions next year again.

If someone had showed you, on the day pes4 came out for arguments sake, a copy of pes2008 and said this is "next gen", this is what the ps3 would give you, what would you have said? i think i would have cried.

I'm now back on pes5 - the last time pes felt free and a test of wit and imagination.
 
gurjisfit said:
The problem i find, and maybe others too, is that i'm just doing the same as i've always done on pes, and it's getting boring.

I've tried to play in new ways, but the ai just isn't up to it and the lack of manual passing means i'm too often at the cpu's mercy. Developers have tried to allow for more delicate passes to be played, but they happen at the wrong time ending up in soft passes when there should be swift passes.

And the implementation of the long pass must be the most one-eyed approach to programming in the history of pes. The passes are so fast they're good for only one thing, a swift pass wing to wing. Any other lobbed pass just whizzes out of play. You'd expect the current system to be the first attempt where they realised it just wasn't working and could never be left as it is for retail, you know, about 8 months before going gold.

Also, now, there's no satisfaction in dribbling or shooting as its too easy.
I'm hoping for massive improvements for pes 2009, but seabass is straining at credibility and more importantly integrity. My hopes are also dashed by this: he says that for pes2009, one of his main aims is to tighten the players control with respect to using the d-pad. I think that limits movement to 8 directions next year again.

If someone had showed you, on the day pes4 came out for arguments sake, a copy of pes2008 and said this is "next gen", this is what the ps3 would give you, what would you have said? i think i would have cried.

I'm now back on pes5 - the last time pes felt free and a test of wit and imagination.
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In short, PES lacks the variations in real football. Soft passes, hard passes, etc. High soaring longpasses, low quick ones. PES has one standard set of automatic stuff, and that's it. While anyone knows that the subtle things in real football is what matters.

PES6 longballs, that were generally very good (trajectory-wise, not control-wise obviously) are now a rare sight, and the players mostly just shoot the ball across the pitch. In all honesty, apart from some horror examples it is possible to shoot the ball really hard across the screen as in PES2008. Problem is that that is rarely what is preferable in real-life, and yet in PES2008 they do is almost all the time.

If anything, higher slower longballs are more preferable in PES2008 since the longpassing is only 8-directional (unless you use auto-aim), which means that the receiving player has to do the most work as he scrambles to run TO the spot where the ball lands, rather than the ball seeking him out. SLower longballs give the receiving player more time to run into the proper spot, whilst harder lower balls increase the chance of simply missing your player and going out before he can intercept it.


The fact that I just wrote what I wrote is the reason I think PES sucks, not slowdown or graphics.
 
It's been a while :]

asmz said:
Badgerman is the biggest moron of the lot, not just because of his pretentious and "quirky" posting style (*cough* ass-hole *cough*)
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:'[

You love my words really, don't you?

asmz said:
but because he knows the majority of arguments levelled against the game are valid
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I haven't even played the game yet but THANKS FOR TELLING ME WHAT I THINK U R SUPER COOL

asmz said:
yet still seems to harbour a grudge against anyone who dares to complain about it,
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Christ I'm neutral here. You lot are taking to the cause so much that you think I am some PES2008 lover that will spread anti-Jewish propaganda so as to promote my cause.

asmz said:
apparently it's a bandwagon despite the poll on WENB lending towards very much the opposite,
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49% think it's good or better but I suppose I must be looking at a poll that backs me up so I must be wrong.

asmz said:
the reality is most people believe, bar the odd framerate issue, that this game is the best thing since sliced bread which is an absolute fallacy.
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Have you possibly canvassed the opinion of this very website? I believe it is a good cross-section of Pro Evo fans and I can say that this game has been received ever so slightly negatively.

asmz said:
As Winston pointed out, the cruel irony of the whole ordeal is that the magazines rightly giving the game poor ratings are doing so for all the wrong reasons.
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Well I don't know the politics of it as I'm not super involved like some people (Here I put the asterisk and say "LOOKING AT U")

winston said:
Your posts are often deliberatley offensive and insulting. You perhaps avoid using expletives, that's all.
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If I was deliberately here to insult people then I'd sit in my bed at night toiling with what some mean people said on the internet.

Luckily, I do not.

poopyface
 
I haven't even played the game yet
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You aren't allowed to comment until you've played the game so please leave the thread. (Full version, not demo).

Everrrrrryyyyone knows that!

So, by neutral you mean someone that can't actually offer any thoughts on the game, and basically sits in the background making snide comments at anyone who "gets involved". Congratulations, you've completed the internet.
 
I advise this thread be closed before it gets even more stupid CW... what do you think mate?
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This thread needs to stand testament to the fact only a few realists got anywhere close to predicting the outcome of this shoddy excuse for a game, and managed to do so more or less before the first screenshot was ever released, in terms of Konami and PES, there is no such thing as a cynic, only someone who is constantly right.

This thread should stay until the same day of it's first post next year, when the whole damned awful process will start again leading to yet another inevitable disappointment.

The only way, and I mean the only way, that PES2009 will even be close to a satisfactory next-gen game is if the comments about restructuring the team are accurate, and not only have they restructured the team but offloaded half of it and employed some decent artists, researchers and most importantly game physicists. If not, it will be the same PS2 engine with a few tacked on additions, with tighter 8 directional control, a few new licensed teams and *perhaps* no frame rate issues. (I doubt they would dare to let this fiasco occur again)
 
Just got it, quite like it. Played around w/ the settings and LOD Mixer and I've got a stable frame rate and good graphics. Gameplay is fun too, I just had a great match against Rangers as Roma on Top Player. Ended 1-0 with a 75th minute goal from Mancini.
 
On PC it does - either through the game or through a Kitserver-type program. I've seen people talking about it before.
 
Trance_Allstar said:
I think you are generalizing. You are taking your experiences and making them a general statement that you seem to insinuate applies to all people.

I'm sure there are people who have "mastered" (whatever that means, would you mind telling me the conditions you need to pass to have "mastered" pes?) PES in shorter time than months. Also FIFA, according to you, having a shorter adjustment/learning time, might just as well be evidence of it being alot better designed and constructed, making controlling and playing it alot more logical and natural (whereas PES usually takes time since you need to learn all the different conditions where logic doesn't apply and you need to learn the games way rather than applying the real-world way to do it).

For example, in certain conditions you cannot pass to a teammate because the game will almost always auto-aim wrong in that particular situation (In FIFA you would simply need to point the analog stick and power up appropriately). For example if you are running close to the endline and strike a Lofted Throughpass in PES, the ball will usually land somewhere on the stands. Whereas in FIFA you just aim and pass without autoaiming screwing with you.

So you could just aswell argue that PES takes longer to "master" since it is illogical, poorly designed and you simply need to repeat situations over and over and waste time until you learn in which situations the game will screw up passes or shots etc, and learning to work around the flaws.
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my friend football is not all about passing im sure you will find more pleasure in a tiger woods game rather in pes obviously but you cannot say that there is not such a thing as master the game.Im sure Elite can explain some things to you or Rob or any of those hardcore pes players over in japan.
 
talking about 8 directions, in pes you have 24 different animations with the ball.different 8 direction animations when you press R1.another 8 different animations in the 8 directions when you press R2 and D-pad and another 8 different animations when you press just the d-pad.This is just an example without mentioning different "combo" moves from any of those 24 most simple moves.There is a LOT more in pes than what you think, im going to play now cause is getting more and more interesting by the day
 
Which one is the stadium with more slowdowns, according to people? Just received my PS3 copy today and it is WAY different in pace to PC version (played in Low Settings, my PC is not up for anymore). The pace is perfect in PS3, the speed is slower than PC and demo. And the slowdowns on Bernabeu (installed game on HD and stadium effects ON) are not out of this world, they are pretty bearable (please don't start with the argument of "should not be that away" because we all agree about that).

Orange Arena perhaps? I have an American PS3, 60Gb version. I have played only 1 game, when I play some more games I will try to give my personal opinion. Far camera is the best, I don't like the wide camera on this PES version, it sucks.
 
shilam0unainai said:
talking about 8 directions, in pes you have 24 different animations with the ball.different 8 direction animations when you press R1.another 8 different animations in the 8 directions when you press R2 and D-pad and another 8 different animations when you press just the d-pad.This is just an example without mentioning different "combo" moves from any of those 24 most simple moves.There is a LOT more in pes than what you think, im going to play now cause is getting more and more interesting by the day
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How do you mean? There is not separate animations for the 8 directions.

There are 3 basic running animations;

1. R1-sprinting
2. Normal
3. R2-moving

There are 1 or 2 different animations for 1 and 2 when turning (turning with the ball when R1-sprinting is one animations I believe). R2-moving and dribbling has various animations for how the player moves the ball.

Also keep in mind that there are 4 different running-styles to choose from.


But anyways, the animations themselves have nothing to do with the directions for passing. I don't want analog "movements", I want analog passing. The game currently supports passing and longpassing in 360 degrees (since the players can pass in any direction when you press pass, or longpass in analog directions when using L1 + Longpass, or longpassing with autoaim).

All KONAMI need to do is activate the analog stick, and then let us aim the pass, rather than a script automatically aiming after we press Pass or L1 + Longpass.

Also, who cares how many animations there are, when the linking between animations usually is below-par. Sliding feet, players shooting with their supporting leg, etc.

But like I mentioned, the number of animations doesn't even factor in, since there is already adequate support in the game for passes in all directions. Just that we aren't allowed to aim freely without depending on scripts to guess what we wanted to do. Which means that they aren't interested in simulating reality, where we aren't limited like this (and again, they have had the foundation in-game for "activating" this functionality for several years).

Believe me, I've given this more thought than you seem to think. ;)
 
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shilam0unainai said:
my friend football is not all about passing im sure you will find more pleasure in a tiger woods game rather in pes obviously but you cannot say that there is not such a thing as master the game.Im sure Elite can explain some things to you or Rob or any of those hardcore pes players over in japan.
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I disagree mate and I'm not happy with that fact.
I played PES2008 two weeks and after the first 3 games boom exploded the CPU with my way of play of PES 6. I'm not saying that PES2008 is shit because I played PES6 during months with the same pleasure.
But It's not what lot of people were expecting. It's a recycled game, No "REVOLUTION" and no "EVOLUTIONS".
FIFA08 isn't the perfect game but made an evolution and that's why I'm playing it and enjoying it. More realism so for me it's more fun.
Imagine Assassins creed with poor graphics and many bug with Altair (the hero) running like Benny Hill accelerated speed, then will you say this game is faboulous because Prince of Persia (its predecessors) were excellent? I don't think so
 
I think most mature and seasoned PES fans will (in their heart of hearts) think that PES2008 is really very poor - to many bugs and poor aspects of gameplay let it down. And as a PES fan I have to admit I'm glad I swapped PES2008 for Fifa08 - and I can't believe it would ever come to that to be honest.
 
BigTimeCharlie said:
yacine do u play Fifa08 online - maybe we should have a game?
I am hyperfun74 on the PSN.
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I will be glad BigTimeCharlie to play you online, but I didn't configure my network connection yet. I'm still learning new skills in FIFA08 and I will probably start my online campaign in a few days :)
(And my girlfriend live with me so I don't play too much :D)

And I completely agree what you said on the above post...But still some players who say PES2008 is shit and crap but that's not true, it's juts an unfinished but still a good game.
 
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