PES 2019 Discussion Thread (PS4, XB1)

Discussion in 'Pro Evolution Soccer' started by Lami, 28 August 2018.

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  1. Turdi182

    Turdi182 Conference

    30 August 2018
    What do you guys think.. how many copies of Pes does Konami have to sell to stay alive in terms of Pes? (I know they do other stuff too)
    I ask this because the sales seem to be decreasing a lot the past years if the numbers of "vgchartz" are right.
    I am pretty surprised that Pes 19 sold worse than Pes 18 apparently because I thought that Pes 19 got way more attention for example on youtube. And here in germany it already has as many reviews on amazon as Pes 18 has and it's only January.
     
  2. Sany023

    Sany023 Premiership

    30 November 2008
    Russia
    Manchester United
    Why very often the same player is one who scores all goals in games vs AI ?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    lucagian likes this.
  3. kernowdoc

    kernowdoc Court In Session...

    13 November 2011
    Green Army
    Argyle
    Because pes has become a sterile, dumbed down, dull arcadey 1 player experience
     
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  4. slamsoze

    slamsoze Premiership

    28 September 2010
    I think the answer you are searching is hidden secondly in digital copies sales,which have less production cost than the physical ones and is not included in chartz and firstly the holy cow which is the micro transactions market,where if the posts in Reddit about some hundreds Euros for buying MyClub coins from average users are true then we have some new dynamics in KONAMI and video game expected earnings.
    Just think that micro transactions do not cost anything as they just sell you “smooth air” without any cost,they have infinite potential for them.
    In a very cheap hypothesis,if we assume that someone who bought the game for 50€ and bought coins for 200€ ,he covers more than 4 times the expected estimated income,so he replaces at least 4 other people who did not buy the game.And this hypothesis is from a short mind like me with little knowledge of economics,I believe their real financial status is dynamically better than this I described.
     
  5. Emroth

    Emroth Champions League

    18 August 2018
    Ireland
    Fully agree, @slamsoze.
    In other words - they have shit loads of money, so we will finally get the Master League we deserve!
    ...in two years, obvs... this is a 3 years plan... ;) :LOL:
     
    mj23, Sany023 and slamsoze like this.
  6. Sany023

    Sany023 Premiership

    30 November 2008
    Russia
    Manchester United
    P.S. It's even results from online COOP matches - 3 players vs AI.
     
  7. PRO_TOO

    PRO_TOO Team Heffernan

    25 May 2003
    Rego Park, Germany
    Team Heffernan
    No no no...! This is the exact model Konami is using! :LOL:

    ;))
     
    slamsoze likes this.
  8. Matt10

    Matt10 Champions League

    5 February 2004
    Been playing Professional difficulty, with lineup manual adjustments, PA1 + advanced through pass, wow. Quite enjoyable I must say. Difficult but rewarding when it comes together.
     
  9. aussiepesfan

    aussiepesfan Premiership

    17 April 2002
    Hey guys, been mixing it up with pc and ps4 versions of PES2019 of late, as some of the mods over the last few months have been pretty amazing.. but again, ive gone back to the ps4 version.. yes, as ive mentioned before, the ps4 version not only has a better response (slightly better, but makes a world of difference), but also is slightly slower and has a heavier feeling. Anyways, onwards with the ps4 version.

    Been also trying to mix things up regarding control schemes. Im usually a full manual pass and shoot kinda guy, but recently tried changing up the shooting controls, because of the lack of decent R2 finesse shooting in full manual (as you know, its broken!!!). Ok.. first tried advanced shooting.. actually was enjoying it.. I mean you have the 9 areas you can aim for etc.. you can do the hard low shots to corner..and best of all the R2 finesse shot works. But as much as I initially thought it provided more variation than Full manual shooting, it actually doesn't. I mean, with Advanced shooting, itll only either go to the corners, or middle, ie. no in between (as opposed to full manual and even basic shooting). Worst of all, there are absolutely no skied shots over the bar - that's the killer for me: regardless of how long I press and hold the shoot button (full max bar).. the only miss hits are wide.. At least with full manual, you can pretty much shoot everywhere, plus with a max shoot bar, often the ball will sky over the bar.. well sorta sky...

    Now... finally, probably since pes14, I go and try basic shooting. Holy shit I enjoyed myself. For me, and my current stance, its the best of both worlds.. the big thing being 'variation'. After using 'basic shooting', you kinda realise what the big issues are with FM shooting. Firstly, with Basic, there is way more variance in shot error, eg. overhitting the ball, im seeing huge skied shots..further over the bar and into the back rows of crowd than with FM. Also basic is definitely more dependant on stats, as well as your body position. With FM, most players can shoot at goal with the same power and trajectory etc, but with basic there is quite a bit of variation depending on player and body position facing the goal. Now here is a big thing... Keepers are more human like with basic shooting. With FM, regardless of how close you shoot into the corners, the keeper will make many amazing saves. Almost any shot from outside the box is saved. With basic, you actually have a chance :) Also, R2s work a treat, but don't seem overpowered as they may have been in the past (I believe that was one of the main reasons I actually started playing with FM). Finally, there have been so many situations when playing with FM, that ill be in on goal with a great striker, who'd usually score in that particular situation, but due to the shortcomings of FM, and the overpowered keepers, id miss or have the shot saved. In that regard, I think basic is actually quite a bit more realistic. So yeah,... im now going full manual passing, with a hint of basic shooting :) But I do really hope FM does become more stat based and provide more variance in the future (+ R2 finesse finally being fixed), as it does probably still provide more satisfaction when scoring due to its difficulty compared to basic.

    Oh one other observation over the last few days. Ive been playing this game vs Superstar CPU on Exhibition mode (20mins) for the most part... holy shit, is it me or has something (possibly konami pre game updates) ramped up the difficulty.. ive literally lost about 20 games in a row..and by big margins. At times, regardless of what I do defensively, the cpu just pings the ball around, and scores with that feeling of 'there was nothing I could do about that'. Didn't get that feeling when the latest patch just came out. Weird. Anyways, the point is, I went down to 'top player' and wow.. totally different game. More errors by the cpu, with a great balance in defence (my players actually position and move better vs cpu attack), without being too easy, ie. still challenging..but way more fair it seems. Anyways, itll be interesting what the next patch offers come Feb.
     
    incas36, lucagian, PRO_TOO and 3 others like this.
  10. Lami

    Lami Niche Football

    28 May 2007
    Sydney
    Man Utd, Juve
    Nice write up there @aussiepesfan. With everything you've mentioned though, I still couldn't enjoy the game.

    But here's the thing, I think I've finally found the PES that I was looking for (to an extent), in pes 2019, hidden under all this Konami mess. I've tried something and I've been testing it for a while now. I didn't want to post my findings after one game, because I didn't want to rush only to find out it's placebo.

    I don't know if anyone's tried this before. So I had an idea to try and alter gameplay by lowering certain stats; ball control, dribble, pass, lofted pass and explosive power. Since CPU AI love to play end to end arcade, the players' perfect ball control and super agility, along with perfect passes helped it achieve that easily. By lowering these stats by 20 points, I thought I'd disrupt all that.

    To my pleasant surprise, apart from the passing stats (I don't think passing was affected much), it worked! CPU AI couldn't play end to end every time. Most of the play took more realistic time than it previously did. The whole pace of the game was more realistic. Suddenly the game felt like I'm playing PES 3. The whole feel of it felt exactly like it. More ball bobble, more players trying to get the ball under control first before their next move, more errors, just a better overall, true PES experience. And something that really resembles realistic football.

    What I also did was decrease all the relevant GK stats by 20, the 5 stats from Goalkeeping to Coverage, apart from the Clearing stat. I wanted to get rid of the unrealsitic super saves and floaty jumps as much as I could. I don't know, but I think it worked as well. I haven't seen any silly unrealsitic saves since, honestly. Maybe it's a coincidence, but for now I will keep believing this worked. I left the Clearing stat alone because it makes sure keepers punch the ball to safe areas, as indicated in the help screen. I didn't want to lower it and see keepers spilling balls every game. So this all works good now.

    I hope you guys who've had issues liking this game like I did, to try this. And tell me how you find it. You can of course try lowering all the stats I mentioned by 10 or 15 points if you think 20 is a lot. But I honestly feel after trying this, that even with stats in the 70s, the game still plays very well. Players still control great. Probably that is the reason why we feel there's no difference between players and that all of them control and dribble perfectly like Messi etc.

    Imo, in this game, if you're looking for realism, don't touch the speed slider. Leave it at 0, and have your stat ceiling be 79 or 80 (equivalent to 99 or 100). Anything in the 80+ range turns this game into an arcade fest.

    You can go ahead and try experimenting with other stats that I haven't mentioned. You can also try reducing less than 20 points. See what works for you.

    And finally, I've changed difficulty to Superstar. I wanted to see if the AI will play smarter and use more options. And again they actually did. And coupled with what I did above, this has turned into something great so far. A good realistic challenge.

    I hope you guys try this out and let me know your findings :)

    It's cumbersome but it's worth it imo. Oh and don't forget to turn off live update before playing so the game uses your edited stats.

    Back to more editing, testing and enjoying :)

    And for once this is a long post that's a very positive one :)
     
  11. Rodchenko

    Rodchenko Championship

    12 November 2009
    Berlin, Germany
    FC Bayern
    Which mode @Lami? Exhibition?

    Because in ML, in my experience, it doesn‘t have any sustainable effect. I tried something similar with PesEditor a while ago (lets you alter all stats globally), to no avail.

    Edit: what I tried yesterday is to remove all extended defensive and offensive tactical instructions from the team I would play against in ML - especially the „swarm the box“ one. That loosened up things a bit, but need to test more.
     
    Last edited: 13 January 2019
    aussiepesfan likes this.
  12. Rodchenko

    Rodchenko Championship

    12 November 2009
    Berlin, Germany
    FC Bayern
    I am playing PA1, basic through ball but advanced shooting and most of my balls go high over the bar. Again, this game is so inconsistent from user to user.

    But the new difficulty is truly noticeable. When you couple SS with ML it‘s simply madness. There is no doubt, that they ramped it up with 1.03. Why, I don‘t know. Maybe because two kids on Reddit complained, that it was too easy on Legend and they always won 5-0 against PSG. Or probably to mask the low crosses (which are still there).
     
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  13. Lami

    Lami Niche Football

    28 May 2007
    Sydney
    Man Utd, Juve
    Yes exhibition. You can see the heavy touches and realistic pace. Once I edit all teams I'll start a league or ML to try. But because these stats are edited, I'm afraid this means ML player development has to be turned off, or it'll ruin everything.
     
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  14. Emroth

    Emroth Champions League

    18 August 2018
    Ireland
    Do you mean you went to edit mode and lowered the stats for every single player in every single team??
    I mean... well obviously for the teams that you played with.. but going to Master League you'd have to do it for...
    fTTBLia.gif
    ...right...?
     
  15. Alx1234

    Alx1234 Premiership

    26 July 2018

    I got a couple of weeks off coming up. Decided to ditch the holiday to the Bahamas and edit PES instead.
     
  16. Rodchenko

    Rodchenko Championship

    12 November 2009
    Berlin, Germany
    FC Bayern
    How would you achieve that? And how about TS? That‘s also messing things up.
     
  17. Lami

    Lami Niche Football

    28 May 2007
    Sydney
    Man Utd, Juve
    Lol. Yes. I wish we had a global editor or sliders. Something we've been begging for for years.

    Hm. Don't know about TS. Will have to see how that pans out.

    As for player development, you can turn it off before starting ML iirc.

    Also what I wanted to add in my long post that I only felt the obvious difference between players when stats were in the 40-80 range. Anything above is just silly, imo.
     
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  18. chickenhawk

    chickenhawk Non-League

    24 September 2018
    So playing a Master league would be better using one of the lesser leagues would play better, French Ligue 2 Swiss League, Danish League etc. Should be less 80+ players in them.
     
    chiefrocka4real likes this.
  19. Rodchenko

    Rodchenko Championship

    12 November 2009
    Berlin, Germany
    FC Bayern
    Sadly, this doesn‘t seem to be the case this time unless they‘ve put it into another obscure submenu or I am blind.

    It would also essentially render TS obsolete because nothing is developing.
     
  20. normazimuth

    normazimuth Conference

    18 May 2013
    I think there used to be a global stat editor built into the game back around PES 2/3/4 time on PS1 or PS2. Yet another good feature that they've ditched.
     
  21. Lami

    Lami Niche Football

    28 May 2007
    Sydney
    Man Utd, Juve
    Kind of. There's still a lot of, if not most of them with ball control, dribbling and explosive speed stats in the 70s and 80s, where imo that should be reserved for only the best.

    But you can try it first and see if you like it.

    Really? I haven't touched ML yet but wtf. It's been in every PES game forever. Why remove it now??

    I never remember there being one. Are you sure? I only know the PC modders made them.
     
  22. aussiepesfan

    aussiepesfan Premiership

    17 April 2002
    ..talk about inconsistencies haha..youre absolutely right about that. Seriously, on advanced shooting..in exhibition mode and free training mode, id test a maxed out shot at the 3 top directions (rh corner, middle, and Lh corner)...and not once did it go over the bar..just saved by keeper or in the goal.

    Anyways..latest update is that im really enjoying the variance of basic shooting to the point that im sticking with it until Konami fix FM.
    Here are a couple of cool examples of a huge skier miss hit and then a goal with outside of the boot with a non diving keeper (both of which cannot be acheived using FMshooting):




    Finally, im sticking with Superstar (p1 vs cpu exhibition mode) as im actually more likely to convert my well created chances now with basic shooting. Im actually winning now

    ..if i start a league or cup, ill surely go to top player though.
     
  23. slamsoze

    slamsoze Premiership

    28 September 2010
    I confirm @Rodchenko ,player development on/off is not an option since pes2013.
    Only viable in PC with a mode,which I highly doubt that someone has created at the moment.

    Also for @Lami testing,I tried French Ligue 2.Before the latest DLC it was better in TopPlayer with Lowe and smoother tempo since most teams are 1,5-2* rated.After the last patch FOR ME the gameplay speed is good enough,but there are moments when CPU must score and then the stats variation and good physics are going a road trip,transforming NIORT to Ajax 1995/1996.The good part is it is not for 90’minutes as vs better clubs,the bad part is you are destined to concede one goal per match minimum.
    Only now after mid-season and a high 80s in TS I have a good balance almost 1,1 goal against me every 1 match ,22games/24 goals conceded.And I have the most OP team in the Ligue2 with 3,5*.Dont know how things would be if I was also 1,5* rated team.
     
    Last edited: 13 January 2019
  24. aussiepesfan

    aussiepesfan Premiership

    17 April 2002
    Wow... Sounds very promising. Thanks for that interesting post. Haven't really thought about playing around with stats since the keeper issues in pes16-19 (pre patch). What teams specifically did u edit?? I find time to give this a go for sure. I think Top player plays way more realistic than Superstar, but i just love the challenge of SS...so im definately keen to apply these stat alterations to SS to hopefully see what u got. Wonder how itd also affect Legend???
     
  25. PRO_TOO

    PRO_TOO Team Heffernan

    25 May 2003
    Rego Park, Germany
    Team Heffernan
    Man, that’s my dream!! Sitting on the Bahamas and editing PES on PS4! :LOL:

    Na, really, i did this years ago and was hoping for some positive results. Great to see someone tackle that again. And i bet there Is more doing this or did it in the past. I got this from someone who did it first. :)

    @Lami keept it up, mate!!
    „Crazy“ passionate! :D

    @aussiepesfan good read! :APPLAUD:
     
    Last edited: 13 January 2019
    Alx1234 and Lami like this.
  26. Matt10

    Matt10 Champions League

    5 February 2004
    That seems to sound that PES 19 is actually playing more true to stats than before, is that right? As you know I love stats-editing back in the day, but the last iterations have not been true to value. In Pes 15 thru 18, the only value of stamina/fatigue was the best one to be true to its value (40) and made a good difference overall.

    Definitely a lot of work for consoles, and yeah ML development may cancel it out, but regardless still all about the positives that can happen.

    I'm working on getting a tighter lineup positioning for User, which is helping the CPU play style. I'll post the set up here shortly. It's pretty much 5-second fix, but much tighter. For PC guys, doing to both User/CPU is perfect, but it also works for just the User side (on Console/PC) is fine as well.
     
  27. fregen

    fregen Peking

    31 January 2006
    Sweden
    IFK Norrköping
    Interesting, would love to try but the manual- guys online would go bananas if they played someone using basic shooting! :D
     
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  28. miguelfcp

    miguelfcp WYL | Porto

    27 June 2009
    I was browsing Twitch - a platform I've only used about 2/3 times ever - and was shocked to see the huge spectators/followers difference between PES and FIFA. While PES has around 84.000 followers, FIFA has 3.000.000 (!); the difference between spectators is also so dramatic, I'd feel dirty if I had to write it down...It was already obvious to me that PES had been losing its place on the market for a while now, but now I'm beginning to get a grip on the current, real state of the franchise...and it doesn't look good at all.

    PES19 loses to all kinds of competitors, direct or indirect: NBA2K19 has 800.000 followers, Madden NFL19 600.000, even freakin' MLB The Show has 250.000, Golf With Your Friends has 100.000 (Golf...) and, brace yourselves, FARMING SIMULATOR has 100.000!!! People are officially more interested in watching someone plowing a field than watching a competitive game of the most popular sport on Earth.
    Just more 20.000 followers and Russian Fishing 4 (?) catches PES on the list. Fishing, goddamit. To watch someone else fishing...virtually.
     
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  29. kernowdoc

    kernowdoc Court In Session...

    13 November 2011
    Green Army
    Argyle
    After reading Lami's and Matt's recent posts, it is crystal clear to me, that pes needs to open up the tweaking options for the master league single players. If we cannot have sliders at least give us more options to tailor the game to our personal satisfaction. Get rid of TS and the other BS from the game too. It can't be that difficult, can it?
     
    Lami likes this.
  30. Emroth

    Emroth Champions League

    18 August 2018
    Ireland
    Or give option to switch on/off every single feature.
    TS, transfers (or its frequency), stats, development, everything.
    Been saying it for ages - Pes doesnt need licenses.
    More so - Pes shouldnt even attempt to battle EA.
    They should focus on edit mode. Give us more content, which would be fully editable.
    And just focus on the pitch.
    They are fighting lost battle, while ignoring content and other crucial elements, like AI.
    They have no money and no resources for it.
    The sooner they realise it the better.
     
    M2015, mj23, lazoli and 3 others like this.

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