PES 2014 Discussion Thread

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Shopto have the release date for PES15 as 21-11-14 - thats late so hopefully Konami will be releasing a finished game this year (inc summer transfers) and not the pile of steaming turd they have released the last few years.
 
And Amazon and Gamestop has the September release date. Nothing is confirmed at all yet :LOL:. All speculation. I believe it will come as usual in October.

As for commentary, no matter how good commentators are in real life, KONAMI always failed to deliver proper excitement with them...
 
They have surely for pes2015 got to tone down the scripting offline and eradicate online scripting. Why there is online scripted matches in pes I will never know its stupid.. And while they are at it ,can we have the flipping AI defensively at least to respond to a friggin loose ball and not stand still or move away from it. It's a complete and utter joke,2reasons I stopped playing pes because if they cannot be bothered to fix it, then I cannot be bothered to buy it.

As for 2015 my expectations on not very high . I just expect the same old crap , Groundhog Day all over again
With the promise that in 2016 we will see a better game as we get to know
The next gen consoles capabilities blah blah blah.
 
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johnking said:
They have surely for pes2015 got to tone down the scripting offline and eradicate online scripting. Why there is online scripted matches in pes I will never know its stupid.. And while they are at it ,can we have the flipping AI defensively at least to respond to a friggin loose ball and not stand still or move away from it. It's a complete and utter joke,2reasons I stopped playing pes because if they cannot be bothered to fix it, then I cannot be bothered to buy it.

As for 2015 my expectations on not very high . I just expect the same old crap , Groundhog Day all over again
With the promise that in 2016 we will see a better game as we get to know
The next gen consoles capabilities blah blah blah.
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I fear that konami won't fix at all the problem with scripting. Specially on the offline modes. They count too much on the fact that with 6 levels of difficulty and the ability to change some settings like passing and shooting assistance is enough for every players to find the right gameplay for them. While it may be right for most of user, there is still a minority that can't find a good enjoyable enough compromise.
For example a lot of people find that playing on the professional level is the key. For me do not works, cause in that level, no matter what team I use, I win too many matches, around 90% of matches in a season, meaning that for sure I win the league I play in. The top player level is totally messed up for me, stats speaking. While my team respects stats and reproduces them on the field very well, the CPU teams just do not follow stats at all. For me every match is the same. Every single match there is at least an unstoppable Messi in the opposite team that can dribble every single defender and score, or a long ranger that scores a screamer from outside the box. The latter one is even more gamebreaking for me. I am on my second season of master league after the last patch and update and I can't finish a single match without conceading a goal. No matter what I do, the CPU will find a way to score. Even in matches I play a perfect defensive game, they will score a cheap goal in which my players freeze suddenly in the last minute and let the striker of the CPU team score an easy goal. I don't mind losing matches, in fact I find it even realistic the position in which my team is now, struggling to qualify for europa league, in need to win the last 2 matches of the season for a chance to qualify. What I find unrealistic is the way stats are reproduced on the field. For me makes no difference if I play against Liverppol, Manchester City or Nottingham Forest, they all play the same football. Not to mention the stats boosting problem. Why in the hell everytime I score a goal, for the next 5 or 10 minutes the CPU must enter GOD mode and be able to win any death ball, any fumble, to press like a group of tanks untill they can equalize? Why have a stat that determine how a player is capable of handling such moments (i think it is determination the stat that handles it) if then every single player of every single team, after I score, is able to handles the situation and equalize like in the anime of Captain Tsubasa (in my memory, I think the teams of Tsubasa almost never scored the first goal, always had to concede first :D ). I don't even want to get started with form and heart. They are so random that they are just useless.
There is only one thing that keeps me from using the BluRay as a freesbe, and it is the sense of "one more match" that only pes can give. Because despite all the moaning in this reply, I still love to play pes :D
All I dream about is just to see the CPU play based on the stats of their players. So if a team has shitty midfield players, they would play long ball from defence. Or if they are not good at dribling, they don't try difficult skiils, and most important, they don't succede in doing so. Am I asking for too much? I hope not :)
 
vihn78 said:
I fear that konami won't fix at all the problem with scripting. Specially on the offline modes. They count too much on the fact that with 6 levels of difficulty and the ability to change some settings like passing and shooting assistance is enough for every players to find the right gameplay for them. While it may be right for most of user, there is still a minority that can't find a good enjoyable enough compromise.
For example a lot of people find that playing on the professional level is the key. For me do not works, cause in that level, no matter what team I use, I win too many matches, around 90% of matches in a season, meaning that for sure I win the league I play in. The top player level is totally messed up for me, stats speaking. While my team respects stats and reproduces them on the field very well, the CPU teams just do not follow stats at all. For me every match is the same. Every single match there is at least an unstoppable Messi in the opposite team that can dribble every single defender and score, or a long ranger that scores a screamer from outside the box. The latter one is even more gamebreaking for me. I am on my second season of master league after the last patch and update and I can't finish a single match without conceading a goal. No matter what I do, the CPU will find a way to score. Even in matches I play a perfect defensive game, they will score a cheap goal in which my players freeze suddenly in the last minute and let the striker of the CPU team score an easy goal. I don't mind losing matches, in fact I find it even realistic the position in which my team is now, struggling to qualify for europa league, in need to win the last 2 matches of the season for a chance to qualify. What I find unrealistic is the way stats are reproduced on the field. For me makes no difference if I play against Liverppol, Manchester City or Nottingham Forest, they all play the same football. Not to mention the stats boosting problem. Why in the hell everytime I score a goal, for the next 5 or 10 minutes the CPU must enter GOD mode and be able to win any death ball, any fumble, to press like a group of tanks untill they can equalize? Why have a stat that determine how a player is capable of handling such moments (i think it is determination the stat that handles it) if then every single player of every single team, after I score, is able to handles the situation and equalize like in the anime of Captain Tsubasa (in my memory, I think the teams of Tsubasa almost never scored the first goal, always had to concede first :D ). I don't even want to get started with form and heart. They are so random that they are just useless.
There is only one thing that keeps me from using the BluRay as a freesbe, and it is the sense of "one more match" that only pes can give. Because despite all the moaning in this reply, I still love to play pes :D
All I dream about is just to see the CPU play based on the stats of their players. So if a team has shitty midfield players, they would play long ball from defence. Or if they are not good at dribling, they don't try difficult skiils, and most important, they don't succede in doing so. Am I asking for too much? I hope not :)
Click to expand...

Somewhere in the world, someone fully understands my rage :)

Thanks :)
 
flokiman said:
Gaming = Coding = Scripting.

Enough with the "scripting" shit.
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I have the feeling that you didn't even try to understand my point. First of all, I perfectly know what "Scripting" means, and I never said in my post that they should remove "scripting". When people moan about scripting here, they (and also me) moan about bad scripting, which is something totally different.
Let's try to use a simple example. There is a put where people are commenting and discussing about a match in which the coach of their team made a very stupid decision, putting the striker as a goalkeeper and viceversa. Now you suddenly enter this bar and say "football is football, enough moaning" like if you were the only one understanding what football is.
Konami simply don't know how to code a good IA on "Top Player" and "Superstar" levels. And once again be aware of the fact I am not complaining about losing. I am complaining about what happens on the field. For you it is good coding (scripting or whatever you want to adress it) to give a tremendous boost on stats in determined situations on the match, like when you scored? Every match should be a different story, like in real life matches. Some times teams that conceded a goal gets depressed and keep conceading, sometimes they try to cheer and try to equalize, sometimes none of the above happens. Same apply for the quality of football I see on the field on "Top Player" and "Superstar" levels. I can understand if I play a top team with good dribblers on the midfield that drives my defenders crazy. But I dont understand if I play the team on the last position on my league and I see a bounch of Neimars trying difficoult tricks everytime they are on my side of the field. And this happens every single match for me. Once again, as you see I am not speaking about scripting, I am speaking about BAD scripting.
One more last thing, a bit off topic. Here is a forum, a place where people share thoughts, so I suppose you just must deal with the fact people may think differently than you, and I find it quite rude to say "Enough of this" or "Enough of that" specially cause in my post, I give a long detailed description of my point of view.
So I will never stress enough to repeat it. Konami does BAD scripting, and I am free to moan about it, like you are free to moan at an actor on a movie you went to see on cinema and acted so bad that his BAD acting (can you see the connection? BAD Acting, Bad Scripting) totally ruined the movie's atmosphere
 
flokiman said:
Gaming = Coding = Scripting.

Enough with the "scripting" shit.
Click to expand...

Coding =/= scripting, but you learn that after some time ;).

Coding should in programming at least, mean code optimization and keeping such program structure that someone else after getting your source code would know WHAT you did and WHY you did some things in the code.

Scripting in PES/FIFA is badly named, but it makes sense. To put it bluntly it's CHEATING. Giving unfair advantage while putting handicaps on users. This is frustrating enough offline when YOU know game decided stuff for you (ie. player would switch, only would after AI player got past you - search some FIFA manual vids on YouTube, it makes it all the more visible). There are also times, when the ball will hit bar/post all the time and opponent who got weaker team will get 1 chance and score 1 goal. Yes, such occurances happen in real life, but come on it happens in 7 out of 10 games online :/.

Wishing we get to see proper AI in sport games one day (F.E.A.R. looking at you. Best AI to date in FPS. :P).

The people who didn't play it, missed out though (2006 release date 8 years ago :D).

YouTube - F.E.A.R. PC Game Review

Aging with style? :)
 
temporaomores said:
Coding =/= scripting, but you learn that after some time ;).

Coding should in programming at least, mean code optimization and keeping such program structure that someone else after getting your source code would know WHAT you did and WHY you did some things in the code.

Scripting in PES/FIFA is badly named, but it makes sense. To put it bluntly it's CHEATING. Giving unfair advantage while putting handicaps on users. This is frustrating enough offline when YOU know game decided stuff for you (ie. player would switch, only would after AI player got past you - search some FIFA manual vids on YouTube, it makes it all the more visible). There are also times, when the ball will hit bar/post all the time and opponent who got weaker team will get 1 chance and score 1 goal. Yes, such occurances happen in real life, but come on it happens in 7 out of 10 games online :/.

Wishing we get to see proper AI in sport games one day (F.E.A.R. looking at you. Best AI to date in FPS. :P).

The people who didn't play it, missed out though (2006 release date 8 years ago :D).

YouTube - F.E.A.R. PC Game Review

Aging with style? :)
Click to expand...

AI on a football game versus AI on a FPS? You not thinking this through
 
i dont play with real madrid so i only found this out literally few hours ago since pes 2014 came out. bale does not have the speedster special attribute...why? that seems really odd
 
A positive post!

PES 2014 development:

1.00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A32InclFTU

1.06
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIchOD8Fz5k

1.13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDFkMI9-B68

Game has massively improved over the last 8 months. By the time it was half decent we where in April/May. I think those who wanted it to be have a delayed release where essentially wrong. Konami would of lost money and lost far more credibility than they did releasing it half finished.

It's a case of having a new born baby, you going to have to go through some ugly tantrums in the child's toddler and infancy and massive irritation before he starts to calm down and behave. It's a case of a new engine, new unavoidable problems.

Konami now have a hold on their new engine. Its still a shell of a game of course, konami have done very well to now at least make it play like a basic football game. They really have worked a lot on this game to improve it, they could of just gave up and focused everything on next year.
 
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zeemeister said:
AI on a football game versus AI on a FPS? You not thinking this through
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No you're limiting your view here. I can assure you FPS AI can be much more complex than in any sports game. It can also be said about RPGs and RTS (but here we have multiple units and the thing I notice most with strategy games, is path finding for units IS hard to do right).

Btw do people even know WHAT game uses most complicated AI?

You would be surprised to find it's actually... The Sims.

http://www.yoannbourse.com/ressources/docs/ens/sims-slides.pdf

Fascinating read if you want to know how stuff works. Easy? LOL :D.
 
Hence why there are only two football action games currently in circulation compared to the 18,538,498,034 first person shooters available. Get it?

If football games where so easy why don't we see as many companies try it? PES and FIFA have plenty of room for improvement in AI but that just a very poor argument comparing it to a first person shooter which never gives any variables to each and every enemy having different height, weight, fatigue, intelligence, shooting skills depending on which weapon the enemy uses, movement, realistic movement physics, physical hand to hand combat variation.

I understand each set team you face having it's own agenda and learning how you play and adapting to it but all generic enemies you face have very generic AI, true the bosses or special missions could pose some great individual AI but let's not lose sight here that enemies only agenda is to shoot you, compared that to the many, many different jobs and takes each individual football players needs to perform.

Best not to compare and expect things which have not been done already within a platform.

Like i say it fits into your argument that the sims, another game like in sports where each individual has a variety of different goals rather than just to shoot you are much harder to program.
 
Might I remind you that there were plenty of sport games before PS2/PS3/X360 era on PC too? Just to name 2 I played before PES hit PC: Actua Soccer and Sensible Soccer, there was definitely more I can't remember.

One problem is, EA Sports and how Peter Moore once said and everyone in industry agreed: "PCs are not meant for sport games because you can't lie down on coach and play with a pad on TV. Plus lots about PC processing power being too little to handle NG FIFA (back in 2007)."

Second problem: Licenses and how KONAMI/EA Sports would treat possible 3rd party to share the cake. The two companies basically locked out any competition.
I doubt 2K will jump on soccer as PES and FIFA have already established themselves and trying to throw a third game in the mix will be tough.
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Why are there so many FPS games on PC? Well, doh, PC still has the most precise input for such games. MOUSE. Keyboard is also faster for some people to do strafe runs and other advanced techniques you cannot pull off on Gamepad. ;) That's one of the reasons.

Try it.

Speaking a bit more about FPS, there is lots of them as you noticed, but how many are really on great level nowadays and not tech demos? Speaking from freak Unreal Tournment/Counter Strike/Q3A/Enemy Territory (best free MP game ever made!) perspective I can tell you lots of new games including BF/CoD/Cryis 3 don't reach the fun factor of those old gen games... (too short, no compelling story, broken multiplayer with cheaters/kids who don't know what teamwork is :LOL:, small maps [in one of the games], broken FOV and some other things). All of the above doesn't come with as amazing AI as was in first FEAR. Weird (although might add Monolith guys are awesome at that stuff).

So yeah, I still believe, if SOME company wanted to jump the football board they should do it (but please take it seriously and don't do shit like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OSMuJ85usM this or ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMVETl23HIw :LOL:).

Actually, something might be coming in the future...
 
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temporaomores said:
Might I remind you that there were plenty of sport games before PS2/PS3/X360 era on PC too? Just to name 2 I played before PES hit PC: Actua Soccer and Sensible Soccer, there was definitely more I can't remember.

One problem is, EA Sports and how Peter Moore once said and everyone in industry agreed: "PCs are not meant for sport games because you can't lie down on coach and play with a pad on TV. Plus lots about PC processing power being too little to handle NG FIFA (back in 2007)."

Second problem: Licenses and how KONAMI/EA Sports would treat possible 3rd party to share the cake. The two companies basically locked out any competition.

Why are there so many FPS games on PC? Well, doh, PC still has the most precise input for such games. MOUSE. Keyboard is also faster for some people to do strafe runs and other advanced techniques you cannot pull off on Gamepad. ;) That's one of the reasons.

Try it.

Speaking a bit more about FPS, there is lots of them as you noticed, but how many are really on great level nowadays and not tech demos? Speaking from freak Unreal Tournment/Counter Strike/Q3A/Enemy Territory (best free MP game ever made!) perspective I can tell you lots of new games including BF/CoD/Cryis 3 don't reach the fun factor of those old gen games... (too short, no compelling story, broken multiplayer with cheaters/kids who don't know what teamwork is :LOL:, small maps [in one of the games], broken FOV and some other things). All of the above doesn't come with as amazing AI as was in first FEAR. Weird (although might add Monolith guys are awesome at that stuff).

So yeah, I still believe, if SOME company wanted to jump the football board they should do it (but please take it seriously and don't do shit like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OSMuJ85usM this or ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMVETl23HIw :LOL:).

Actually, something might be coming in the future...
Click to expand...


I know about the licences. Xbox and PS have still 1000's of FPS.
 
Chimps-with-quiffs said:
Just put the latest patch on after playing on my ps4 for the last few months

Enjoying the game play, but in two games I hit the post or crossbar 6 times and only scored once. This makes the game a ridiculously hard given the CPU can now score amazing goals from nothing
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Feel exactly the same. It is almost impossible to score long shots, but the CPU can do a little shuffle, and smash it into the top corner. It is ridiculous.
 
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