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New interview with Seabass!

Discussion in 'Pro Evolution Soccer' started by Adonis, 20 December 2005.

  1. Adonis

    Adonis Guest

    here it is. Found it on www.computerandvideogames.com



    There are a lot more physical challenges in PES5 - is this a direction in which you want to continue in PES6?

    Seabass: Probably not in our next game. We obviously won't stop pursuing that realness, capturing a true simulation of football, but in terms of control we'd like to find the perfect balance of arcade and simulation - we don't want to pursue it as a simple simulation too much.


    Will the new Pro Evolution Soccer management game come out on the PC?
    Seabass: At the moment it's a PS2 exclusive, because it's the leading platform and because we want to bring the game out in Europe first; but if we're successful and if PC gamers request it, then we'll look into it.

    You've said the next-gen PES will concentrate on AI rather than graphics. What are you working on for it?

    Seabass: The graphics side of things is quite simple to upgrade, but AI is really, really difficult - and for next-gen even more so. To give you a hint of what we're planning, we want the AI smart but not in a way that the players will always pinpoint where the ball will come. We want to represent human error - what players will actually do when they make a mistake.

    Is the online dream still 11 vs 11 players?

    Seabass: Our goal hasn't changed - we could probably do it for the next PES, but it's very difficult, as we'd have to change the system completely in order to do it. So we'll probably bring you 5 vs 5 online, and have a kind of halfway version. If we actually gave you the chance to play 11 vs 11, we'd definitely see a lot of that human error!

    PES is all about those human mistakes and the way the ball moves - while other games concentrate on making the perfect game or the perfect overhead kick. Is this random element a real philosophy behind your game?

    Seabass: Yes that is actually one of our philosophies - it's kind of a Japanese thing actually! We think that the most fun you have with PES is with your friends. We're plunging into the creation of new systems and AI - but we also feel that the AI shouldn't really be there anyway. We want to make the users play and not necessarily just support it with AI - that's our basic thinking. We do want to help the player control fluidly in the game, but the AI shouldn't control the users.

    Do you have any plans to enhance the Master League in the next version of PES?

    Seabass: Every year we make changes - in PES5 we've made the training more simple, cut the boring stuff and strengthened the management side. For the next one we want to do an online Master league, so that many players can play it at once. There is a problem in that the strongest players will always buy up all the best players, so we're working out a way to handle money allocation. But I promise that we will have an online Master League in the next PES.




    The most interesting thing for me is the first question. I love the way PES5 plays compared to PES4. I guess Seabass feels that PES5 got some bad press from certain places, and the change was too great.

    Im sure loads of people will be happy with the re-think, but I would of loved to see PES5 gameplay developed further on a next-gen platform.
     
  2. Fishboy

    Fishboy PES6 Devotee :-p

    25 March 2005
    Hiding at the Valley
    CAFC
    Well done adonis, nice find.

    cheers :) food for thought for PES6
     
  3. PLF

    PLF Legend

    2 August 2004
    Yeah well said Fishboy, thanks Adonis was an interesting read.
     
  4. TikTikTikTikTik

    TikTikTikTikTik *****

    7 August 2004
    Liverpool
    Not online ML, just make it bigger with more leagues/full leagues!. Im really curious how they plan to make the online ML work. Its been difficult enough getting the Evo league / Evo CL done and thats with the majority of people being serious and wanting to play. And even then we have players in the league with a game difference of about 10 matches more or less. How the ML will work with im expecting the majority of players not to be as serious as the ones here is a bit of a worry. Also the lag issues and dumb players have turned me away from the random online game. I only bother with the evo tournaments now as its mostly so much better with decent players wanting to play decent fair matches
     
  5. PLF

    PLF Legend

    2 August 2004
    Exactly I read all about this online ML and it don't get me excited one bit. What I would prefer is a ML with a real structure where 6th placed team for example doesn't go into CL still but Uefa Cup and 4th placed team in CL group stages gets knocked out of Europe altogether so there is a prize for becoming 3rd in your group so you go to Uefa cup not the way it is right now and with 4 div of 16 teams and one div of 8 teams.

    How hard could this be to fix to make a real life league ML with all 20 teams?? :(

    But they won't do that probably now they'll make an online ML where again we probably can't edit their crap stats and wrong database either as they want to keep people from cheating but those of us who play single player ML will now have to tolerate all those 1000 wrong stats in lowre teams or edit para which was a bitch and editing option file is way easier.
     
  6. Fishboy

    Fishboy PES6 Devotee :-p

    25 March 2005
    Hiding at the Valley
    CAFC
    How hard indeed PLF :( . I thought the ML was designed on the J-League (16 teams, 30 games in all) but must be wrong cos they now play 34 Games (18 teams).

    6 Leagues with an option of 18-20 teams in each would be best thing to do imo. Hello Konami, are you listening? *waves*
     
  7. PLF

    PLF Legend

    2 August 2004
    oh man that's exactly and ALL I want in fact if there's no gameplay improvement no graphics no NOTHING i'd be happy if only they released PES5 again but the way it should've been in first place with 6 full leagues of 18-20 teams each so we can have a real life simulation going :/. Honestly this is probably a piece of cake for programmers that intelligent/bright that Konami has but the problem is they just don't seem to understand or give a flyin f*ck about how important this is.
     
  8. gerd

    gerd Retired Footballer

    8 January 2002
    Over the moon
    KRC Genk, Spurs
    You're right my friend...i can't believe that that isn't a priority for Konami...one can imagine that they would read some of the forums of their game...never alienate fans from your product...and with SWOS coming to the Playstation...they might loose their share of the market.
     
  9. Professor Nutmeg

    Professor Nutmeg ML Fanatic

    3 July 2002
    Master League
    Lol, once again the Master League will be no different. WAKE UP NOKAMI!!

    F**k the training mode!!!!! ](*,)
     
  10. gerd

    gerd Retired Footballer

    8 January 2002
    Over the moon
    KRC Genk, Spurs
    Pardon your French Prof????
    But of course you're absolutely right.
     
  11. denirobob

    denirobob IBERIAN PRIMERA

    28 June 2002
    Henley, Oxfordshire
    Morning Chaps,

    You know what mate, i think you've raised a good point here as in Pes2 they had 3 divisions with 16 teams in 1 & 2 and 8 in the third.

    I don't wish to generalise but I think the problem (and it could be the same in Australia or the US where they also have a young small championship) is that they dont appreciate how important a large and historically coherent league structure actually is in Europe.

    It drives me to despair that barely more than half the actual clubs in the game can be entered into the current ML setup, and even then there is no way for example of the other 3 AI leagues to be freshened up each year.

    I think Konami imagine the actual makeup of the individual 4 divisions is irrelevant as all anyone wants to do is get into the WEFA championship (this explains their fixation on the big glamourous clubs), but are totally missing the point that winning the domestic title is of equal importance!

    db
     
  12. Sabac Red

    Sabac Red Premiership

    22 November 2002
    Yeah I missed the days of Pes2 with three leagues, now that was a challenge. I remember the Championship cup you would play at the end of Div1 if you finished second?

    What nokami needs to do is cut the second division down to six teams, bring back the playoffs aswell. Atleast have 18 teams in div1 and sort of the the fucking europeancup/qualifying format. I don't like playing two other teams from the same country in the WC group stages....
     
  13. ClassicD

    ClassicD Galáctico

    11 November 2001
    Glasgow
    Celtic
    Interesting that he says they could have 11 vs 11 for the next version but they'd have to change the system completely, so instead they'll do 5 vs 5. By "changing the system" I can only think of one thing and that's having the game hosted on a server (like PC shooting games have been for years), as that allows everyone a good ping. Does that mean they're going to do 5 vs 5 using the current host/client system? If so then prepare for lag :(.

    Single-player, well it's very obvious to me now that we'll never see what we want in this area, so I give up here. The guy is saying, clear as day, that they don't even think AI matches should be in the game at all, that it's a multiplayer game and that's their aim. I guess I'm happy with that if they can deliver a solid online product but I'm skeptical on whether they can.

    Arcade/Simulation? How about fun? I remember the days on PSX when it was Nigeria vs Brasil, Babangida vs Romario, Bobby Carlos vs Finidi George. The cult figures like Patrick Mboma, the game was so much fun. I don't want an arcade game but I think a lot of that fun has disappeared from the series. It's so much more fiddly and relies on the AI making decisions for you, compared to back in the day when it was simple and you had more control.

    Or maybe I'm just confusing that with nostalgia.
     
  14. gerd

    gerd Retired Footballer

    8 January 2002
    Over the moon
    KRC Genk, Spurs
    Good points in this thread...
    What Konami should do is make a fully customizable ML...were you design your own format and rules...
    DB has a point that they focus on the big clubs...
    People like PLF who are stats wizzards and who follow international football also claim that the stats of the lesser clubs are not accurate and that lesser known players of lesser clubs are underestimated...
    I think that is because Japan is relatively alienated from European football and only the big clubs have enough appeal...
    Konami need to recruit European people for the PES games...
     
  15. Han

    Han Very senior member

    22 December 2001
    Holland
    One thing what puzzles me is this:
    "For the next one we want to do an online Master league, so that many players can play it at once"
    Think of that: Normally OFF LINE ML takes weeks and weeks to build a default-team into a great side. You play a while and save it; play again etc.
    But how can you do that on-line? You play with a lot of others and if you decide you have to stop for a reason, the others can't play on neither, because you aren't there anymore for them to play against your team! So the fixtures will really mess up :shock: How do they solve that problem? You cannot expect all players play for days at the same time....
     
  16. TikTikTikTikTik

    TikTikTikTikTik *****

    7 August 2004
    Liverpool
    same point i made han, the evo league and evo CL was hard enough and thats with the majority wanting to play it.
     
  17. PLF

    PLF Legend

    2 August 2004
    Great points by DB and everyone here but to be honest now that it is clear we won't get realistic ML structure that we all want and crave so badly similar to real life one, I just hope at LEAST we don't have to get stuck with Konami's crap database/stats for teams in ML now like in PES4 where only way to get rid of them was to edit the para file on DVD!

    In WE9/PES5, at least it was a huge sigh of relief for me to see despite the same crappy structure staying at least option file stat changes now take affect in ML (except Middle shoot ability) but with all this Online ML talk thing, I can't help but think Konami will again try to find a way to cut out those cheaters who want to bump up their players stats to 99 or whatever and therefore ruin game for those like me as well who the game is simply unplayable for until stats are fixed.

    I just hope they dont go back to their ways in PES4/WE8 with stat-edtiing being reverted back to default when you start ML but can't help but think they probably will :/.

    what does everyone else think about this?
     
  18. TikTikTikTikTik

    TikTikTikTikTik *****

    7 August 2004
    Liverpool
    dont the stats go back to the para when playing online anyway now? The kits are always without the editing when i play online. Or was that your point that online ML will be crap with the basic nokami stats? I still live in hope that they will improve/overhaul the ML structure, not expecting it though.

    On a another note, i think i read that the ML in the new JL has a big 1st and 2nd division ( correct me if im wrong). Wouldnt a patch be able to make it play for example a prem and 1st division with english teams?With the other leagues set up as superleagues to get a good WEFA cup Or different countries ( la liga 1 and 2, lique 1 and 2 etc? And with the amount of stadiums a patch like the british one for pes4 is a possibility. A lot of work though :(. Or is this just wishfull thinking like the improved ML structure :lol:
     
  19. winston

    winston Champions League

    7 August 2005
    Well, like most other folks here, the first thing I felt on reading Seabass's words was disappointment at lack of intent towards having a decent ML structure.

    The whole interview is somewhat underwhelming with the exception of their efforts to improve AI so that it will make errors typical of humans. I'll believe it when I see it...in PES5, all the AI teams seem to play the same pixel-perfect football and have huge stats boosts to make them challenging, barely even a hint of error. They've got their work cut out to make it convincing.

    Let's hope we get somewhere closer to 100% control of our player, instead iof the increasingly scripted routines.

    No mention of full analogue control makes me think it wil be the same core game engine as before, with the same scripted feel.

    Back to ML, I think we need to organise ourselves into some sort of campaign and let them know how important to the European (an other) markets that we have proper league structures. Frankly, I don't want 6 x 20 team top divisions, as some have suggested. I want a proper 4 league domestic strutcure with promotion and relegation. I'm sure there are literally thousands who want exactly the same thing yet Konami don;t deliver.

    They've said that they'll consider releaseing the PES Management game on PC if people ask for it. So we need to let them know how much we crave proper league structures. There are no techniacl excuses, it's just a question of will on the part of Konami.
     
  20. TheWolf

    TheWolf League 1

    7 August 2003
    Texas, USA
    Manchester United
    I really don't think Konami see the Western attitude towards realistic league structure as an issue. The way around it is to offer a 100% custom league structure where you choose:
    - Number of divisions.
    - Decide whether those leagues run from strongest to weakest or whether they are at the same level.
    - Number of teams in each division.
    - Number of teams promoted/relegated.
    - Method of promotion/relegation (play-off, league placing, etc.)
    - Customize cups so you can have a domestic cup and a European cup system. Fully customizable format for those too in regards to qualification etc.
    - Turn fake players/classic players off.
    - Turn growth system on/off.
    - Turn aging on/off (because sooner or later the players get too old and retire then regenerate as youngsters again).

    With this, you should be able to replicate the structure of any league in the world even if you don't have all the teams to be able to do so.
     
  21. winston

    winston Champions League

    7 August 2005
    Wolf, what you describe is indeed what many of us want. On the surface, it may seem complex but when you consider what effort and skill is required to get the rest of the game working, coding up custom leagues is child's play.

    But the problem is, as you said, "I really don't think Konami see the Western attitude towards realistic league structure as an issue". That being the case, I'd say it makes it more unlikely that they'd offer custom leagues...they don' see it as an issue.

    The latest J-League game is a case in point. It actually has a better ML structure than WE9/PES5 uin that it has a 30 team domestic league with 18 teams in Div 1 and 12 in Div 2. You can also play this format in normal League mode, outwith the ML game mode. But you cannot play it with anything other than J-League teams. I had been hoping to edit a bunch of the other teams in the game to have 30 English teams and play them in the new 30 team J-League foramt in League mode, but alas, they do not permit it, which I think demonstrates there lack of understanding about what we (you, me and many others) want.

    I keep thinking "next version, surely they'll make that break-through". Then the next version comes around and the disappointment sets it yet again. The news thus far about WE10 was almost inevitable.
     
  22. TikTikTikTikTik

    TikTikTikTikTik *****

    7 August 2004
    Liverpool
    So my patch idea can work? :D Shame im not that good at this patching ( although i did manage to change all the pitches for we9 :lol:
     
  23. PLF

    PLF Legend

    2 August 2004
    I fully agree with what you're saying Winston.

    And as Wolf said best this is the whole issue: This sentence sums it up:

    "I really don't think Konami see the Western attitude towards realistic league structure as an issue"

    this is the whole problem!!!
     
  24. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Banned

    12 February 2005
    London
    I don't think having 20 teams in Div1 (and not have a Div2) is gonna make the ML better, infact it'll make is wosre...because the game will be short.

    It's having more team to accomadate the ML that should looked at. Having a Full Div1 and Div2 for each of the top leagues. For example Serie A and Serie B...The Premeirship and The coca cola championship....Ligue 1 and Ligue 2 and etc...
     
  25. psfzola

    psfzola Non-League

    31 March 2004
    West London

    This is exactly what I want.

    Other things that would vastly improve the ML would be the ability to change teams in ML. I get bored of playing with the same team after 5+ seasons, but I don't want to have to start again at 2005 with every player at the same level of development and every club with the same squad. It doesn't even need a complicated structure like in management games to accomplish this. You could just be able to swap to controlling a different side, and leave the rest to your imagination.

    Even further down the line I want to see retired players gone for good, and their replacements being random appearance/stat newcomers. This is obviously a long way away though.
     
  26. PLF

    PLF Legend

    2 August 2004
    Well obviously what you're suggesting is the best possible deal we can get and all of us would love to have real Div 2 as well but since I don't see that happening soon, I was saying I still DO prefer to have a realistic Ligue 1, La Liga or EPL ML instead of a 16 team division.
     
  27. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Banned

    12 February 2005
    London
    Yeah i see what you mean. But Konami should put full Div1 and Div2 team in PES....it'll make the editing MUCH HARDER, but with all the team roster, it'll make ML enjoyable.

    Also i reckon on PES6 on the PS3 that the hair on players will move a lot...they did that in PES3, but i reckon there'll be a LOT more detail. Sorry for being a bit random here...
     
  28. PLF

    PLF Legend

    2 August 2004
    Yeah sure I agree that'd be the best possible scenerio we could get and it'd make the ML experience amazing but until we get that option, I'd rather have more realistic Div 1 games so not against 15 other teams but against 19 if it's 20-team league and against 17 others if its let's say Bundesliga and I wouldn't care about Div 2 then or want anyone promoted to it since they wont be German teams for example, I'd be happy to wait on that until they make proper Div 1 and Div 2 teams like you said.
     
  29. PetrovLFC

    PetrovLFC Raul!

    13 March 2005
    NW London
    Liverpool
    I agree 100% with the bloody training mode and that useless challenge mod, take that out and free enough resources (time, memory limits) into less scripted gameplay, more animations and a proper 6 league ML with Champions league, Domestic Cups, Uefa cup.

    And also the abillity to change your team in ML as managers loose jobs etc and positions open up.

    As PLF says, proper database research is crucial. Online ML would be too hard to implement.
     
  30. steevio_uk

    steevio_uk Premiership

    7 October 2003
    West Ham
    Ask him why pes5 is so shit and full of schoolboy errors.

    I thought developers were meant to IMPROVE the game.
     

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