FIFA/EASFC and PES/eFootball: Contrast & Compare

[majuh]

I actually agree with this. The game functions differently on Professional, Top Player and Superstar, than it does on Regular. For some reason your output on the ball is reduced. Without changing any controller settings or direction shooting on target becomes a lot harder? Why is this?

Surely the CPU should just provide a tougher challenge?

I believe the AI is actually the same on Professional, Top Player and Superstar. At a higher difficulty setting, the game simply uses more scripting against you to provide you with an artificial challenge.

Sorry majuh there is no such thing as a random second division team beating you from scripting in PES 2017 which you cant change from mastering how your team should play. Sounds like the AI are just exploiting your tactics, i saw enough in the last two games and especially 2017 again that this game is all about how you defend and set you team up regardless of opposition strength to win.

Of course there are huge difficulty spikes in the games that occur completely independent of stats and tactics. It's beyond me how people can choose to overlook this...

There no such thing as random, things happen for a reason, find out why to give yourself peace of mind, no point coming here all insecure and wanting everyone to agree with you, this is a forum we are here to debate. Sorry it sounds as if your ego cant handle being beaten on Top player or Superstar.

The point is that I win almost all matches on Top Player or Superstar. The game basically rolls a die before each match, and those matches I don't win are the ones where the outcome of the dice throw makes the game ramp up the scripting against me.

I even got proof for that: There is a series of simulated PES tournaments called the 4chan Cup, where the various boards of 4chan compete against each other in AI vs AI matches. The managers of the teams invest a huge amount of time and simulate hundreds of matches in order to find the most efficient tactics, but the unanimous opinion of the managers is: The game is purely based on luck. Tactics don't make a difference regarding the win percentage, and each team has exactly the same player stats. You can literally simulate exactly the same match twice with the same teams, tactics and form arrows, and in the first match Team A wins 7-0, while in the second match Team B wins 8-1.

I've seen absolutely ridiculous stuff when watching the 4chan Cup, for example a match between /lit/ and /his/, where /lit/ went up 5-0 in the first 40 minutes, before /his/ came back and also scored 5 goals. The match ended 6-5 and there weren't any tactical changes in between...

The 4chan Cup makes it pretty obvious how bad PES is in terms of simulating football these days. It used to be different.

 

[Antoine]

By the way thought i'd say it whilst you are here - thanks for all your efforts over the years with pes tactics Klashmann, ive been following it closely. Especially with the work on Pes 13 which i still play occasionally now.

 

[pretty]

I'm not going to list pros and cons of both games, I think many on this forum are well aware what they are.

Ultimately for me the core of pes is better in terms of how the matches are played out, the variety in the matches, and the effectiveness of tactics.

Fifa is better in every other aspect, I think that Fifa is closer to being the better football game, if and it's a big if, they managed to implement more variety, and an emphasis on tactics to win games, as opposed to pace, skills, and finding the "sweet spot" to score.

As things stand for me personally when playing fifa it feels souless, it's just Team A vs Team B again. It's all well and good being slick, but if it doesn't feel right on the pitch then all that is irrelevant. But PES looks souless to me, so it feels great to play, but the presentation and animation variety, shooting variety etc takes away from the game.

Fifa has an almost unlimited amount of variety in the animations, but repetitive gameplay, and Konami has an almost unlimited variety in how each match plays out but repetitive animations.

I want the core gameplay of PES with the look of Fifa.

But things are very unlikely to change, it's clear to see where EA are focused, and unfortunately Konami just don't have the manpower or budget to compete in certain areas.

Both developers seem to have a very different focus on development, with EA seemingly having the on pitch action as secondary, and Konami having presentation etc as secondary.

I also think a key difference is Konami are physically incapable of competing in certain areas. whereas EA are choosing NOT to compete in certain areas. I see no reason at all why EA are unable to produce more variety, and make tactics more important. But ultimately with the focus being on online and FUT, is the extra investment and resources on developing a.i worth the return? Probably not.

 

[Final Pass]

After spending a long time with PES 2017, I can honestly say it's the best football video game of all time.

It's so addictive. I need to stop thinking about it and give my family some attention!

 

[Chris Davies]

Fifa is better in every other aspect, I think that Fifa is closer to being the better football game, if and it's a big if, they managed to implement more variety, and an emphasis on tactics to win games, as opposed to pace, skills, and finding the "sweet spot" to score.

As things stand for me personally when playing fifa it feels souless, it's just Team A vs Team B again.

Love this post, nails it for me. Every year, I buy one, and end up buying the other because of what's missing from the first one. It's already happened - love PES, but still get a nagging feeling that something's missing, so bought FIFA, and there's what I'm missing (pass error, more variety in physics, deeper career mode), wrapped up in that damn "Team A v Team B" gameplay. But, this is the first time in many years that PES is getting more playtime each week than FIFA does, at least.

After spending a long time with PES 2017, I can honestly say it's the best football video game I've just changed my mind, FIFA 17 is the, no, PES, FIFA, PES, FIFA, PES, FIFA, ARGHHHHHH

Fixed this for you...

 

[pretty]

Love this post, nails it for me. Every year I buy one and end up buying the other because of what's missing from the first one. It's already happened - love PES, but still get a nagging feeling that something's missing, so bought FIFA, and there's what I'm missing (pass error, more variety in physics), wrapped up in that "Team A v Team B" gameplay.

It's really frustrating as Fifa at times looks incredible, the variety in animations, and how they differ depending on body positioning, speed, timing etc is amazing. It's obviously not all good as Fifa 17 has a bit of "jankiness", the legs sometimes look weird and twitchy when someone sprints.

But it just all falls down when I realise that while I'm enjoying what I'm seeing on screen, I'm just not enjoying controlling it.

I enjoy controlling PES, everything is responsive, and each match feels different, but man oh man do some of the animations look terrible. Don't get me wrong the animations are very smooth, but it looks like a ps2 games at times.

The key differentiator in terms of feel is that in PES the players input is given priority, whereas in Fifa the animations have priority, so if you press a button it doesn't matter, it will NOT happen until the first animation has completed. This effect is really bad in Fifa 17 which has really caused the "input lag" to be more apparent.

Aside from the team a vs team b gameplay, there are little things that could be added to Fifa to make the career mode better, things like team chemistry (team spirit in pes), or a players rating reducing if you play them in the wrong position. As things stand I see no reason to not play someone. Adding something like that alone would change the career mode drastically for me.

How about tactics familiarity too? I'd love Fifa to reduce team chemistry if I suddenly tried changing my tactics, PES does this.

But then again EA would need to fix the damn tactics in the first place lol.

 

[curdstar]

Just to make an extra point. Yes but you are talking about yourself and your team. Im fine controlling my team, its the oppositionand the CPU that stops it being a sim. It can be played out by myself as a sim. I can take my time controlling my buildup play and i can knock it about at my leisure, but the CPU doesnt do that. It just goes for the throat constantly.

Nah, the COM adapts and mixes up its play far more in PES than it does in FIFA and slider shizzle ain't changing that in FIFA. Playing ML, or indeed any of the competition modes in single player is a vastly different experience to playing exhibitions.

Arcade games are about instincts and quick reflexes. Real football, when considering having a ball at your feet, is just the same. That is why I don't engage in the sim/arcade debate any longer because it is a bullshit debate when considering both games.

FIFA, although fun in its own way, is one-tempo, if we are going to talk tempo. Unfurtanetely when playing against an AI that simply won't take a risk, refuses to use the games mechanics to the full (still not seen a real-life skillful player do any of the skills, or shoot from range - both in PES) then it is a glacial one on slow game speed, and just weird looking at normal game speed. The complete and utter lack of tactical variety and team individuality on show makes it boring very fast and while PES has its faults, it isn't boring.

I am playing an ML as Benvento in Serie B at the moment and the game ebbs and flows with a variety of tempo's found throughout the match thanks to an AI that uses individual players skills, is reactive and pro-active to my tactical tweakery. All played on -1 game speed and it is fantastic with every game having a narrative of sorts. I do not feel that in gameplay in FIFA even if the commentators are telling me so.

All that said, I like FIFA this year, but much prefer PES currently. Maybe FIFA will have its day in the sun with me further down the line, but they are going to need to patch the shit out of it this year (PES needs some things addressing too, but less in the way of fundamentals and technical issues) and get down to bloody work for next year as that slider shit won't fly with me for much longer when it comes to "enhancing" the single player experience.

Sliders in FIFA are the equivalent of an equaliser on an excellent sound system. Justin fucking Beiber's shitehouse music is still going to be Justin Beiber's shitehouse music no matter how much I dick around with the equaliser.

But it is important to offer thanks to the likes of Matt and others, when considering sliders, for taking time and trying to work with what is there. I'm really not sure how much longer FIFA would've lasted for me without guys like that's input. Sliders should be a "nice to have" not "need to have" Currently FIFA, or more accurately keen football videogame players, need them. EA should not be thanked for that.

 

[pretty]

FIFA, although fun in its own way, is one-tempo, if we are going to talk tempo. Unfurtanetely when playing against an AI that simply won't take a risk, refuses to use the games mechanics to the full (still not seen a real-life skillful player do any of the skills, or shoot from range - both in PES) then it is a glacial one on slow game speed, and just weird looking at normal game speed. The complete and utter lack of tactical variety and team individuality on show makes it boring very fast and while PES has its faults, it isn't boring.

That's the thing, in PES someone like Pogba in the a.i controlled team will take long shots. Konami have coded certain "traits" in players to reflect real life.

If you press triangle on a player in the game plan screen and then press R1 to flick through until you get to the playing style section it lists COM Playing Styles (When on the ball). Using Pogba as the example his are Trickster, Long Ball Expert, Long Ranger. As a contrast Depay has Speeding Bullet, Incisive Run, Trickster and Long Ranger.

It's not something that EA are unable to do, and it has a MASSIVE positive effect when playing against the a.i. I can't see one single reason EA couldn't even implement something like that. Having something like that would drastically transform how each team feels to play against, even if their general team tactics aren't overly different.

It's such a simple thing if you think about it, but it adds so much depth to the gameplay. Having specific computer controlled players trying long shots, or killer through balls more than others is great.

Having individual player traits in itself would add to team variety. As things stand I could play against Watford or Real Madrid the ai will attempt to play the EXACT same way.

That in itself renders tactics irrelvant (even if they were working correctly). The reason tactics need to be changed at times in PES is because opponents will play differently, and they actually do adapt to your playstyle too.

Using Pogba as an exaple again, I had a match last night where I kept passing to him to abuse L1=+Triangle through balls, then I notice that the a.i are suddenly marking and closing him down a lot. The commentary even points this out. I had to change my style of play as it was pointless trying to use Pogba as I'd lose the ball.

It's little things like that that keep the game feeling fresh.

 

[Chris Davies]

If you press triangle on a player in the game plan screen and then press R1 to flick through until you get to the playing style section it lists COM Playing Styles (When on the ball). Using Pogba as the example his are Trickster, Long Ball Expert, Long Ranger. As a contrast Depay has Speeding Bullet, Incisive Run, Trickster and Long Ranger.

It's not something that EA are unable to do, and it has a MASSIVE positive effect when playing against the a.i.

Again, absolutely spot on. 100% agree.

I have to admit, I rarely take these styles into consideration. Nearly everyone in my team has some of these labels, but I've no idea what they do (unless it's blatantly obvious through reading the label) and I don't think about whether they'll be detrimental to my tactics.

 

[curdstar]

That's the thing, in PES someone like Pogba in the a.i controlled team will take long shots. Konami have coded certain "traits" in players to reflect real life.

If you press triangle on a player in the game plan screen and then press R1 to flick through until you get to the playing style section it lists COM Playing Styles (When on the ball). Using Pogba as the example his are Trickster, Long Ball Expert, Long Ranger. As a contrast Depay has Speeding Bullet, Incisive Run, Trickster and Long Ranger.

It's not something that EA are unable to do, and it has a MASSIVE positive effect when playing against the a.i. I can't see one single reason EA couldn't even implement something like that. Having something like that would drastically transform how each team feels to play against, even if their general team tactics aren't overly different.

Taking a guess, they actually can't, thanks to the over-engineered mechanics driving the game which the AI in turn adheres to in that it knows these things are risky and the AI is programmed to be risk averse. So it won't have a pop from range, or try skill you. It will shield then pass, shield then pass until it gets to the wing or plays its way up to the vicinity of the six yard box. If the games mechanics were far more streamlined, and the developers took a rock, paper, scissors like approach, while also focussing on tactical depth and the AI being more pro-active and reactive thanks to it being less muddled in possession, then it could be like that. Currently though, the game is a multi-player focused product. Yes, these games will always be better against a player of similar skill-set than they would be against the AI, but you shouldn't then go on about "having the complete package" and a wonderful career mode if the AI is incredibly limited. I'm not one for hyperbole, but there are those who could look at that and think "that is half a game" God knows PES gets that treatment when considering its online woes.

 

[pretty]

Again, absolutely spot on. 100% agree.

I have to admit, I rarely take these styles into consideration. Nearly everyone in my team has some of these labels, but I've no idea what they do (unless it's blatantly obvious through reading the label) and I don't think about whether they'll be detrimental to my tactics.

Well the COM playing styles won't effect your tactics as they only relate to when on the ball, as opposed to whether a player will make more runs etc.

However I do take "player skills" listed into account. For example someone like Ronaldo has "Knuckle Shots" as one of his special skills so I will tend to do them often with him, and someone like Kroos has specialities like "Pinpoint Crossing", "Weighted Pass", "One-touch pass" etc so I will tend to use him as a playmaker. I notice his through balls tend to be better than if I used someone like Asensio.

PES 2017 has so much depth it is actually really impressive, I just wish it had more variety in animations. I do appreciate that star players have unique animations, but on the whole there aren't a massive amount of generic animations, especially when compared to Fifa.

If you've not done it already it might be worth going into the training ground and setting only the goalkeeper as the a.i team, and then having a play around, it gives you a chance to appreciate the intricacies and differences between the players.

Taking a guess, they actually can't,

I think another factor is that they simpy don't want to either because as you say:

Currently though, the game is a multi-player focused product.

I agree.

At the end of the day EA are a company, and when developing their game they obviously look at how they are going to manage their resources for the biggest return on their investment. Spending time and money on further developing a.i and offline modes on what is pretty much Ultimate team 17 with offline as a complimentary option isn't worth it.

I remember when games used to be offline first and foremost and online was the bonus, it was a much better place, now though EVERY game is so online focused and as someone who is primarily an offline gamer I hate it. It's had a negative effect. Taking it off topic slightly but look at GTA V, where is the single player DLC??? We can thank GTA Online for that. Why are Rockstar going to spend time and money creating single player dlc when they can make a much larger return on investment on shark cash cards.

The same applies with Fifa, why spend time and money developing a.i, when they can make more money focusing on creative way to entice people in buying "packs".

It's silly really as EA could actually kill of PES if they just copied certain funadamentals of PES. Obviously the last thing I want is only one football game though as that would be terrible as there would be no incentive for a developer to improve their product. It's just frustrating as both games have positives, they just happen to be what the other game is missing.

 

[craney91]

After spending a long time with PES 2017, I can honestly say it's the best football video game of all time.

It's so addictive. I need to stop thinking about it and give my family some attention!

If this is somehow legimate, after saying how much you loved FIFA 17 on release day. Just out of interest, why dont you like it now and why has your tune changed on PES 2017?

 

[Final Pass]

If this is somehow legimate, after saying how much you loved FIFA 17 on release day. Just out of interest, why dont you like it now and why has your tune changed on PES 2017?

Read my posts in the PES 2017 thread.

I DID love FIFA on release date. Then it got stale extremely quickly whilst PES 2017 has a steep learning curve and is more rewarding the more hours I pour into it.

 

[rockstrongo]

Read my posts in the PES 2017 thread.

I DID love FIFA on release date. Then it got stale extremely quickly whilst PES 2017 has a steep learning curve and is more rewarding the more hours I pour into it.

That couldn't have been any news?
It having a steep learning curve?
And I remember you reviewing/criticising/explaining your thoughts about PES.
In retrospective,no offense mate,it's kinda,excuse the phrase,dumb to base your opinion on how good/bad a game is,when you've barely scratched the surface on it?
Or even have a grasp on how good it really is.
Not trying to "shoot you down" here,so I hope you take it for what it is,not meaning to offend you in any way
Just a reflection.
And I'm glad you like it,it's an amazing game,so deep

 

[Lons]

Main difference between Pes 2017 and FIFA 17 is deep gameplay. Pes 2017 has it.

 

[Final Pass]

That couldn't have been any news?
It having a steep learning curve?
And I remember you reviewing/criticising/explaining your thoughts about PES.
In retrospective,no offense mate,it's kinda,excuse the phrase,dumb to base your opinion on how good/bad a game is,when you've barely scratched the surface on it?
Or even have a grasp on how good it really is.
Not trying to "shoot you down" here,so I hope you take it for what it is,not meaning to offend you in any way
Just a reflection.
And I'm glad you like it,it's an amazing game,so deep

No your points are fair. I should have given it a LOT more time than I initially did.

Now that I have, I am very glad that I did!

 

[rockstrongo]

No your points are fair. I should have given it a LOT more time than I initially did.

Now that I have, I am very glad that I did!

Hey,takes a good man to do what you just did.
Appriciated mate.
Really glad you enjoy it,and post your ML stories in the ML thread,always good to have some new stories.
Boro right?

 

[Final Pass]

Hey,takes a good man to do what you just did.
Appriciated mate.
Really glad you enjoy it,and post your ML stories in the ML thread,always good to have some new stories.
Boro right?

No worries!

Yep, Boro

 

[klashman69]

Dont know whether i agree Klashmann. I keep using Carpi as an example becuase i've played them excessively to test with a multitude of sides. At times they play super one touch football to the edge of your box like Barcelona. You'd expect more mistakes and a slower build up in play. You'd certainly expect a team, such as Carpi who in game throw 4-6 players forward but always manage to get back into position super quickly through the full game stamina to be rock bottom.

The way PES works, you need to force them into mistakes by obligating them to to try hard passes, this comes come closing down players with marking or forcing them to try a hollywood passes by playing a high line. The reason they do this ping pong is becuase they have space to do so, i've learned and seen many times since also momentum affects their ping pong ability, you need to get your team sorted so you don't allow the opposition space.

Remember unless your doing 30 minute games you can't expect the AI to take ages to buildup an attack, the game difficulty and AI aggression for me must be balanced in conjunction with the time limit. We will get an effect like we have seen in the last two FIFA's where the AI just passes backwards and sideways for ages until they finally try a first time shot well over the ball.

This is probably the most important reason why many people see PES gameplay as better than FIFA, its about that competitiveness that if you fuck up on PES 2017 n superstar even with the bad default tactics the AI punishes you, on FIFA, its about preventing the AI from getting to that sweetspot

 

[klashman69]

I believe the AI is actually the same on Professional, Top Player and Superstar. At a higher difficulty setting, the game simply uses more scripting against you to provide you with an artificial challenge.


Of course there are huge difficulty spikes in the games that occur completely independent of stats and tactics. It's beyond me how people can choose to overlook this...

majuh, its not about overlooking this, if you read my previous posts you would have seen me mention that if don't make the AI cheat in some form, do you know how easy this game would be? You do realise Sports games AI is still nowhere near smart enough to take you on, given practice and understanding of the game. I expect the cheating to happen until AI becomes smart enough to properly take me on. The balance is good in PES, very good.

The point is that I win almost all matches on Top Player or Superstar. The game basically rolls a die before each match, and those matches I don't win are the ones where the outcome of the dice throw makes the game ramp up the scripting against me.

I even got proof for that: There is a series of simulated PES tournaments called the 4chan Cup, where the various boards of 4chan compete against each other in AI vs AI matches. The managers of the teams invest a huge amount of time and simulate hundreds of matches in order to find the most efficient tactics, but the unanimous opinion of the managers is: The game is purely based on luck. Tactics don't make a difference regarding the win percentage, and each team has exactly the same player stats. You can literally simulate exactly the same match twice with the same teams, tactics and form arrows, and in the first match Team A wins 7-0, while in the second match Team B wins 8-1.

I've seen absolutely ridiculous stuff when watching the 4chan Cup, for example a match between /lit/ and /his/, where /lit/ went up 5-0 in the first 40 minutes, before /his/ came back and also scored 5 goals. The match ended 6-5 and there weren't any tactical changes in between...

The 4chan Cup makes it pretty obvious how bad PES is in terms of simulating football these days. It used to be different.

You mean this this shitshow?

Is this a troll post or something? I must be being pranked here I mean its bad enough watching a few of these games, none of them are using fluid formation for starters which is the key if you want realistic results specifically regarding DM positioning and transition between defence and attack, these crazy people are clearly just having fun and dont give a flying fuck about the results from these games and have no interest in creating competitive strategies, they are more concerned in spamming horse fucker every time theres a foul.

You know what i will use the rest of my indica up and sit down and watch this madness again. Thanks majuh

 

[Placebo]

Ouch!

 

[Chris Davies]

Ouch!

It'll never sell well, unfortunately it's a different world now from 10+ years ago. We were enthusiasts who were willing to toil over updating the game with better gameplay, but the majority now (all 1.1 million of them) can't fathom buying a game and then having to piss about with it to make the real kits appear (and I can understand that to a degree - I wish Konami would implement a built-in option file solution that doesn't involve a laptop, a USB stick and signing up to a forum).

If we were playing "I'm An Average Joe!" and rating gameplay (worth 10 points, maybe) versus everything else including game modes, graphics and online play (worth 30 points in total), then EVEN IF you rated PES's gameplay more highly, it'd be crushed (my scores would be PES's 24 v FIFA's 32).

I'm tempted to say "if PES dies then FIFA will have no competition and it'll stagnate" but from a business point of view, in reality, it makes no difference with those kinds of numbers. Even critically, PES leads by just 2 points on PS4 and XBO (according to Metacritic), so who cares, from EA's point of view.

Given the focus on FUT and the career mode enhancements that consist of, er, pie charts... I'd argue that it's already stagnated. I'm already waiting for next year's game, when (hopefully) with the switch to Frostbite out of the way, we'll see something more substantial (though I hope we don't just get the same game but with The Journey 2: Journeylicious).

Anyway, in other news!

I've just posted in the FIFA thread about playing Be A Pro on 17. With Matt's latest sliders and tweaks, I'm surprised at how good it is (which makes me think their single-player focus was The Journey and the surrounding mechanics).

I dislike playing as the team, even with sliders, but as a single player, you see how non-binary everything is. Whether you think the engine is convoluted and has "too many mechanics" or not (I don't really agree with that), I was pretty shocked when comparing it to PES's Become A Legend.

I'd recommend anyone looking for the differences in the two games to play a single game as a single player on Be A Pro, then Become A Legend. It accentuates FIFA's best bits and PES's worst.

All the passes on PES are on perfect rails, there's no ball physics to speak of. Player runs and awareness doesn't exist and you're doing the same passes all the time. It's thoroughly simplified in comparison, and response times are horrendous for dribbling (FIFA's newly introduced response-time issues are being spoken about everywhere, but even with that going on, it's 100x more responsive for dribbling and taking a man on with an average player who could, in reality, still beat a man with a dribble occasionally - it's not just a case of being made to run into a guy over and over again because you're not Ronaldo).

The tactical element is pretty much taken out of the equation because of the AI managers and it feels more like a prototype than a final product, it's pretty black-and-white (in my opinion, obviously).

Yet, I really don't like playing FIFA as the whole team, and I absolutely love playing PES as the whole team.

So I'm glad I caved and bought both...

 

[majuh]

majuh, its not about overlooking this, if you read my previous posts you would have seen me mention that if don't make the AI cheat in some form, do you know how easy this game would be? You do realise Sports games AI is still nowhere near smart enough to take you on, given practice and understanding of the game. I expect the cheating to happen until AI becomes smart enough to properly take me on. The balance is good in PES, very good.

I agree that cheating is needed in sports games, but it is horribly balanced in Fox Engine PES in my opinion. I'd expect more scripting when playing with a weak team against a strong team than playing with a strong team against a weak team, but it's not consistently the case.

Is this a troll post or something? I must be being pranked here I mean its bad enough watching a few of these games, none of them are using fluid formation for starters which is the key if you want realistic results specifically regarding DM positioning and transition between defence and attack, these crazy people are clearly just having fun and dont give a flying fuck about the results from these games and have no interest in creating competitive strategies, they are more concerned in spamming horse fucker every time theres a foul.

You know what i will use the rest of my indica up and sit down and watch this madness again. Thanks majuh

It's funny that you mention Fluid Formation, because the unanimous opinion of the managers is that Fluid Formation makes AI teams actually perform worse. That's why nobody is using it there, it has even become a meme. Keep in mind that they aren't setting teams up to play realistically, they want them to be successful instead. Watching a tournament with fake teams and fake players is great for analysing the game because it's completely detached from real football.

 

[TroyDeeneyScoredAPenal!]

Welcome to the future when it comes to "Stagnation"... Eventually they will run out of ideas to add to the game and also how to make it play better in my opinion. Then try justifying the fecking price tag EA...

 

[Final Pass]

PES 2017 is so good I think I'll cry if Konami stop making football games. I don't think I could go back to a FIFA game after playing this.

Saying that, if FIFA slowed down their general gameplay and changed the awful AI, I'd be back in.

But it won't happen. EA target the FUT kiddies who's daddy will buy them the game every year regardless.

I do worry for the PES series if it isn't selling well. Konami could easily pull the plug.

 

[curdstar]

Ouch!

And yet there will be a PES next year, the year after that and the year after that and so on.

Question for you: Do McDonalds make the best quality beef burgers?

 

[chiefrocka4real]

Love this post, nails it for me. Every year, I buy one, and end up buying the other because of what's missing from the first one. It's already happened - love PES, but still get a nagging feeling that something's missing, so bought FIFA, and there's what I'm missing (pass error, more variety in physics, deeper career mode), wrapped up in that damn "Team A v Team B" gameplay. But, this is the first time in many years that PES is getting more playtime each week than FIFA does, at least.

Actually I agree on almost all of your posts, but here I have to disagree, at least on pass error and variety in physics...unless I misunderstood you.
The lack of passing error in PES forced me to get used to manual passing. But then I´m glad that it had to be, as I can enjoy it a lot more.
On FIFA I never had to do that, as assisted passing is just fine for me and enough passing error is provided (at least by me...maybe less by the AI).
Then variety in physics. What physics? I only can speak about FIFA 16 as I haven´t played 17 enough, but I doubt it´s so different, but the variety of ball physics in FIFA 16 has blown me away for one year.
It created situations after months and uncountable hours of gaming, which I haven´t seen before.
Yet, there are things in FIFA´s gameplay I find annoying, which I would be able to overlook though if PES wasn´t satisfying for me.

 

[P34SEMM]

If someone in the EA office bought PES, fired it up, showed it to the development team and they implemented the PES style AI in FIFA then PES would be fucked. It would die overnight (in Europe anyway)

But (luckily for Konami) EA aren’t interested in the AI – they want an online game played by kids spending their money on shitty coins. They couldn’t give a shit if people like me or you think its shit. The kids love it. That’s their audience. Nearly every kid in my lads team bought Fifa last week and all they talk about is FUT.

FIFA is amazing to look at. It’s like watching Sky Sports Super Sunday….and that’s where the greatness stops in my opinion.

FIFA17 is a horrible game. I’ve tried Matts sliders and all although they improve it so much the AI still lacks that drive to play football and change things if a certain way isn’t working. PES has that nailed.

I really want to prefer FIFA as 20 years ago this is how I dreamed a footy game would look but they still don’t have the gameplay.

 

[TroyDeeneyScoredAPenal!]

If someone in the EA office bought PES, fired it up, showed it to the development team and they implemented the PES style AI in FIFA then PES would be fucked. It would die overnight (in Europe anyway)

But (luckily for Konami) EA aren’t interested in the AI – they want an online game played by kids spending their money on shitty coins. They couldn’t give a shit if people like me or you think its shit. The kids love it. That’s their audience. Nearly every kid in my lads team bought Fifa last week and all they talk about is FUT.

FIFA is amazing to look at. It’s like watching Sky Sports Super Sunday….and that’s where the greatness stops in my opinion.

FIFA17 is a horrible game. I’ve tried Matts sliders and all although they improve it so much the AI still lacks that drive to play football and change things if a certain way isn’t working. PES has that nailed.

I really want to prefer FIFA as 20 years ago this is how I dreamed a footy game would look but they still don’t have the gameplay.

Couldn't agree more mate. I am sick of EA's focus on FUT and the diamond stud earring wearing kids who want the game to run as quickly as Cristiano Ronaldo's Ferrari... well before he crashes it into a tunnel that is!.

 

[P34SEMM]

Matt has a new set of slider tweaks out and ill try them tonight. Hopefully he will eventually get to a point where the game is playable.