Nick Cave
Wrexham fan for my sins...
FIFA 11/12/13 Manager Mode Suggestions Thread
- Thread starter romagnoli
- Start date
Placebo
Ԁlɐɔǝqo
Hmm I see the white arrows as which runs they should be making (ie workrate related) and the other ones as to how deep or high up they should play, is there an actual EA guide to these arrows/settings? I use the white arrows on my forwards especially to send them on overlapping runs, my left forward has an up right white arrow and my right forward has an up left white arrow and they constantly cross each other with their runs which helps them lose their marker.
Nick Cave
Wrexham fan for my sins...
I'm the same...
nerf
Forming triangles
Another fine example of EA's front-end being unnecessarily ambiguous.
The way I interpret it:
White arrows = where to re-position yourself. A backwards defensive arrow (pointing towards his own goal) on a CM will make him sit deeper when we don't have the ball, as if he is a CDM. Similarly, a CDM with a backwards defensive arrow would drop into the back line as a CB. A forwards attacking arrow on a CM tells him to move further up the pitch, more in a CAM position, when we have the ball.
My initial point was about the High/Blue, Normal/Yellow, Low/Red work-rate settings, which are to do with how often they make runs forward, and how diligent they are in tracking back defensively when they are caught ahead of the play, i.e. effort/work-rate.
The way I interpret it:
White arrows = where to re-position yourself. A backwards defensive arrow (pointing towards his own goal) on a CM will make him sit deeper when we don't have the ball, as if he is a CDM. Similarly, a CDM with a backwards defensive arrow would drop into the back line as a CB. A forwards attacking arrow on a CM tells him to move further up the pitch, more in a CAM position, when we have the ball.
My initial point was about the High/Blue, Normal/Yellow, Low/Red work-rate settings, which are to do with how often they make runs forward, and how diligent they are in tracking back defensively when they are caught ahead of the play, i.e. effort/work-rate.
- Thread starter
- #35
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
From what I heard in Canada, the workrate settings won't override the player's natural habits, but it will influence or tweak them. What has been Berbatoved cannot be unBerbatoved.
Placebo
Ԁlɐɔǝqo
By workrate you're presumably referring to tactical/positional arrows not the actual attacking/defending workrate stat that each player now has
- Thread starter
- #37
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
By workrate you're presumably referring to tactical/positional arrows not the actual attacking/defending workrate stat that each player now has
There's a defensive and attacking work rate setting in custom formations (isn't there?) - that's what I mean. It won't override the player's WR attributes but it'll work with them.
Placebo
Ԁlɐɔǝqo
But that's not workrate, that's positional/tactical adjustment, it doesn't matter if the player is hardworking or lazy per their stats, if you tell them to play deep they'll play deep, it doesn't tell them to work really hard when they play deep. Workrate for me is only ever meaning how hard someone works and shouldn't be confused with arrows that give players tactical/positional adjustments, maybe I'm the only one seeing the difference here?
nerf
Forming triangles
I think the time has come to re-visit the Edit Formation screen, Placebo
In the "Set Work Rate For:" menu, Attacking is "Set how frequently this player will make runs going forward", and Defence is "Set how diligent this player is in defence".
It's very rare that this front-end actually tells us what's going on, so I guess we should pay attention on the odd occasion that they do.
Meanwhile, I stand by my idea that a Freedom setting would be quite cool, it makes tactical sense that it should be set individually rather than team-wide. I'm not convinced that the Work Rate option should exist at all from now on; it will only be used as an exploit to make a lazy player slightly less lazy.
In the "Set Work Rate For:" menu, Attacking is "Set how frequently this player will make runs going forward", and Defence is "Set how diligent this player is in defence".
It's very rare that this front-end actually tells us what's going on, so I guess we should pay attention on the odd occasion that they do.
Meanwhile, I stand by my idea that a Freedom setting would be quite cool, it makes tactical sense that it should be set individually rather than team-wide. I'm not convinced that the Work Rate option should exist at all from now on; it will only be used as an exploit to make a lazy player slightly less lazy.
Where did you hear that Marcel almost got the sack?
One thing very concerning is the standard of EA's programming. If MM is to really move forward it needs to improve. Today i played Manager Mode for the first time in over a month because ive been playing the World Cup game and there were 2 Blackburn Rovers in the Premiership and it said my league position was 1/16. Just 2 ridiculous bugs i instantly noticed.
PES 2010's Master League is more in-depth than MM yet you never see duplicate teams in the league and 2 matches being played in one day, nearly every match played in the rain, etc.. which leaves you wondering why.
Some people say it's because Fifa has more game modes. I don't buy that excuse because how many modes does Fifa actually have. Offline, Fifa has BAP and PES has Be a Legend. Fifa has MM, PES has ML. Online Fifa has more modes than PES i gather but modes such as Online League's have barely changed since last year if not at all so it's not like EA are spending a lot of time enhancing those modes. Clubs has changed quite a lot but for the worser in a lot of people's opinions.
I have heard that EA's programmers are paid low wages and work long hours. I don't know how much truth there is in this but would be interesting to know if that is the reason for the sheer amount of bugs.
The board.
Inspired by the MM (Masochistic Mode) I'm attempting with Turkish minnow Ankaraspor, in which after a very narrow 0-1 defeat at home to title-challenging giant Fenerbahce, I was told that the board 'expected a better result against this opponent'
1. Board Comments.
What use is judging my result based on expectations if I was not informed of those expectations beforehand? If I should be doing X, please lay it out clearly prior to the attempt.
Not only would this flesh out the feature to something more well-rounded, it would also give some character to that fixture. Am I the underdog against a dangerous opponent? Am I expected to go and win this? Are we expecting a tight game against an evenly-match opponent? It creates tension and gives the gamer an outline of what sort of atmosphere surrounds this particular fixture, helping to make it different from the last.
It also gives the subsequent feedback comment more meaning. If I get a very positive/negative comment after a win/loss, I know it's because beforehand I was expected to lose/win, etc etc.
Needless to say, the other important thing is to make these expectations/comments logical and authentic... but I'll try to keep away from moaning about endless bugs for this post.
I agree with what TikTikTikTikTik said earlier that the Board should only comment on your progress every month or so as in real life you don't get the Board telling the Manager what result they expect before each match or them saying what they think of the result post-match.
Maybe to create a tension and give the gamer an outline of what sort of atmopshere surrounds the particular match, their could be bookies odd's before each fixture so you know if your the underdog, favourite, etc.. Maybe EA could even have a real bookies logo such as Bet365 to make it even more authentic as im sure many bookies would snap up the opportunity to appear in Fifa.
I agree with this. The Board Confidence bar needs improving so you know where you specifically stand. Maybe split it into 3 colours so the middle colour would be neutral. Or maybe show a percentage figure next to the bar so it's even more specific?
On the topic of bars, they should bring back the Fan Appreaciation bar which was in Fifa 09.
Agreed. This definatly needs a re-design. If your in the Premiership instead of saying 'CURR.RESULT: 17' it should say something like;
Current League Position: 17/20
Avoid the Relegation Zone
- Finish 17th or higher
Also having visible highlighted coloured bars on the league tables which highlight the places in the relegation zone would help also.
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Placebo
Ԁlɐɔǝqo
He said it himself to someone here via PM I believe. He had to cut his honeymoon short and was summoned to a meeting with Peter Moore and David Rutter apparently.
Dusse
Banned
It's not really fair to blame Manager Mode on the guys currently working on it. As far as I understand until last year it was still the old manager mode from the PS2 etc days which was a mess. Last year was basically a rewrite of the code behind that to be able to improve in in the coming years.
Of course they are paid low wages and work long hours..it's the gaming industry (but no, EA is not as bad as they were a couple of years ago).
Of course they are paid low wages and work long hours..it's the gaming industry (but no, EA is not as bad as they were a couple of years ago).
If Marcel Kuhn was given the job to improve or rewrite the MM, and his team produced that many bugs, then surely he's not doing his job right? There's a reason he was called back to HQ for an emergency meeting and almost got the sack.
klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
Hmm i read all your ideas from manager mode and neuf's ideas! they are all workable and very positive but tbh i think it's best for FIFA 11 to basically have the same strucutre as FIFA 10.
Just sort out all the bugs! So the dam thing works! Then we can move on and make some progress.
The layout and the amount of Depth in manager mode is more than good enough, it's also clear they are working on online, gameplay and oher aspects so i wouldn't expect manager mode to be a bitesize football manager or even like total club manager was back on the PS2.
Also like you i do really wonder about EA' programmers, is there a serious issue with pay there?, the bugs such as duplicate teams appering in Manager mode has been around since FIFA 04!
My vision for FIFA's manager mode is to when the current manager mode is sorted hopefully for 11. EA should in a way 'scrap' their current system they have, go back to total club manager 2005, use that system almost as a football fusion.
From what ive heard it's still based on old code. Which is why there's issue's such as Norweign and Swedish teams can't qualifying for European Competitions and why there's no FA Cup Replays.
nerf
Forming triangles
I agree that it doesn't have to be FM-style deep, but I disagree about the layout. I'm not looking for something super deep and complicated (and I should just give up now, if I was!), but what is there could be made so much better with some simple thought and care applied to the way it is implemented.
I think there are three things that could elevate this mode to a new level without the need for crowbarring in complicated new features:
1) Yep, the most important thing at this point is bug fixes. Pretty embarassing.
2) A decent UI, with care taken in the way that information is presented. Not merely being nicely laid out, but in terms of clarity and gameplay relevence. You can't overestimate how good feedback can further engage and immerse the gamer in the virtual world.
3) Infuse it with some atmosphere. It's sad that if I leave my poor Polish club and take a new job at Bayern Munich, nothing changes! It doesn't matter if I'm in Ireland or Italy, it's the same. Or the Carling Cup 2nd Rnd or the Champions League final, it's the same. It's all so sterile.
I don't want to set the price of hot dogs or upgrade the gym at the training ground, just give me something that's immersive, has a reasonable level of authenticity (i.e. no ridiculously odd transfers, wrong competition rules, unrealistic weather/time etc)... and actually works.
Nick Cave
Wrexham fan for my sins...
I'd disagree on both counts, MM is poor in layout and depth..
It's fine if you just dabble in it but play every game for 10 seasones and there is very little in there at all, the info it gives is meager and the page layout is down right annoying at times...
It seems EA make finding info and looking through the menu a task in its self...
It's fine if you just dabble in it but play every game for 10 seasones and there is very little in there at all, the info it gives is meager and the page layout is down right annoying at times...
It seems EA make finding info and looking through the menu a task in its self...
What do you think EA's motivation is for drastically improving the manager mode? As has been pointed out (and is obvious from their attempts) it is very hard to code, takes a disproportionate amount of time and resources.
And, no incremental revenue for them. Whereas new online modes, that increases online activities, which does have some revenue upside. Plus add-ons like Ultimate Team, again more £££.
I haven't played PES in 3 years (sniffle, I miss it) but have to give them some dues, it does at least feel like they're trying to make a game that is enjoyable for fans of manger mode. (though let down by the gameplay). For me EA is just adding it because they feel like it's a mode they need to have.
Which is made all the more odd when you consider the depth of NHL/Madden franchise systems. Why they can't just bring in some of that team I'll never understand.
And, no incremental revenue for them. Whereas new online modes, that increases online activities, which does have some revenue upside. Plus add-ons like Ultimate Team, again more £££.
I haven't played PES in 3 years (sniffle, I miss it) but have to give them some dues, it does at least feel like they're trying to make a game that is enjoyable for fans of manger mode. (though let down by the gameplay). For me EA is just adding it because they feel like it's a mode they need to have.
Which is made all the more odd when you consider the depth of NHL/Madden franchise systems. Why they can't just bring in some of that team I'll never understand.
Nick Cave
Wrexham fan for my sins...
I'm sure there is some info somewhere on which parts of the game are more popular than others, I'm sure MM is up there?...
Placebo
Ԁlɐɔǝqo
Pretty sure David Rutter said it was the most popular mode recently.
Dusse
Banned
Previews for FIFA10 said it was the next most popular mode, after exhibitions. I wonder how they measure that though.
Nick Cave
Wrexham fan for my sins...
Can you remember where this is posted?...
Placebo
Ԁlɐɔǝqo
Fraid not sorry, could have been text or could have been spoken in an interview, I just remember being surprised and the voice in my head said "well if the mode's so important why did you fuck us over so much with it last year"........
Nick Cave
Wrexham fan for my sins...
Ahh so true, it does give me a little hope though knowing it's a big part of the game still..
Surely EA must do something this time, surely...
Surely EA must do something this time, surely...
- Thread starter
- #55
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
There's a lot of incentive for EA to make as much of the MM as possible. The problem last year was they tried to dress mutton as lamb. They can't afford to keep using the same old system.
I do feel positive about MM, precisely because 10's was so dire. If 10's had been average with only a couple of bugs then I don't think this year's would be as good.
I do feel positive about MM, precisely because 10's was so dire. If 10's had been average with only a couple of bugs then I don't think this year's would be as good.
Nick Cave
Wrexham fan for my sins...
In a way that's my only worry, at some point namely now, are we going to get a whole rewrite which means if anything a thinner if not more stable MM than we have now and EA and Rutter bringing out the old three year programme?..
Great to hear about the new Career Mode, the UI has been improved as well as the issue with no long term injuries. It seems the weather has been sorted also as Phil said on the EA forums his first 4 matches were in day time/dry weather. As well as a 2 tier negotigation process with player transfers.
Hopefully it will have very few issue's this time and the fundermentals will be sorted so we can concentrate on giving suggestions for Fifa 12 that will really flesh out the mode instead of hoping EA will fix the basics.
Was the MM code from Fifa 10 ported from CG (PS2)? As the Career Mode for Fifa 11 has been specifically coded for NG does this mean that it should be more stable and efficient?
Hopefully it will have very few issue's this time and the fundermentals will be sorted so we can concentrate on giving suggestions for Fifa 12 that will really flesh out the mode instead of hoping EA will fix the basics.
Was the MM code from Fifa 10 ported from CG (PS2)? As the Career Mode for Fifa 11 has been specifically coded for NG does this mean that it should be more stable and efficient?
Wilko22
Confusions Familiar
- 19 March 2003
- Manchester United
I believe it was the old gen engine yes, so in theory it should be more stable, in theory...
mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
I'd agree with you if we were talking about FIFA 10. As Placebo and I have said on the other forums, it sounds like we're getting this year what we should have gotten last year.
Career Mode does look promising. It's just sad we're only now getting a next-gen manager mode.
We're suppose to be in the 2nd year of a 3-year development process for MM, but I think we can all agree that despite Rutter's recent comments, we're actually in the first year of a new cycle? Like a previous post mentioned, I expect the real improvements will come in FIFA 12 and 13.
Looking to the future, one feature I'd like to see added is the ability to try-out potential transfer targets - it sucks getting a new player only to find you don't like how he handles, or he doesn't quite fit with your squad like you'd hoped. One way to accomplish this would be allowing us to include players on our transfer short-list in a practice session.
nerf
Forming triangles
I would only agree with that for players who are free agents. If you could bring an unattached player in for a trial, that makes some sense. Being able to trial players from other teams doesn't.