Why dont you Patchers UNITE your great works ???

Discussion in 'Winning Eleven' started by Madrileno, 11 August 2005.

Patchers Unite ?

  1. Yes create EVO WEB patchers team..

    48 vote(s)
  2. No I dont like the idea..

    10 vote(s)
  1. Madrileno

    Madrileno EVIVA LA LIGAAAA

    18 June 2005
    Real Madrid
    Why dont you smart guys unite your works ?

    Its obvious that all of you patchers have favourite parts of the game were you go to edit the most for example Fernando is the king were it comes to translate and he is always first to release his patch.

    In fact his Patch should be the fertile land were other smart patchers could work.

    That could mean we have no more the hassle to decide witch patch is best and it could make things faster for patchers themself.

    Having people like Kel, Scorpion , Sizou and others( sorry for not mentioning everyone) working on clubs and national kits, others on Flags and banners and people like PLF working on Player stats.

    They could come out with an Ultimate patch and people would call it EVO WEB patch perhaps giving credit to all people mentioned up here of course.

    Its not something impossible because those smart people are regular members in these forums and they are lovers of the game also so I dont think its difficult to create the best Patcher s group there is if anyone one of them puts his individual pride aside and work to take this game a step further to realism.

    I find it strange that nobody had this idea before, the thing that makes me angry most is when I see a patch were they have perfect kits to the least detail but players stats are not good ( obviously because the person that made that patched is specialized in Kits) or patches that have perfect boots and vice versa dont have all kits as they should be.

    Having a team of people all working on their specific area of the game and all of them knowing what their part is will only improve quality because they can spend more time and go more in detail on thet particular area.

    Some would say that would not be good because its better to have individual patches so that we have competion and more quality but do those who create patches cover the game 100% ? and do they do it for competion or to make Winning Eleven a better game ? Surely if a team was to be created it would be a team of no more than 8 persons and there are a lot more people than just 8 that create patches so thats not an issue.

    Please post comments about this and give your opinions.

    IMPORTANT: Any patchers ( people that are smart enough to make our game better) that read this thread and have opinions on this idea please post and make it clear that you are patchers and what you think about your work not being more indiviual but in teamwork.
    Last edited: 11 August 2005
  2. PLF

    PLF Legend

    2 August 2004
    I see what you're saying mate but that's basically what our current and future patches will be. A compilation of a group of people's work who trust in each other put in one patch for people to enjoy.

    I don't think we need an Evo-web patch! Because after all even on evo-web we each have our own people we trust and certain people we would like to work with so that's what we'll do.. no worries.. many patches will be out soon and I'm sure you'll see something you really like ;)

    Take care.
  3. Noaxx

    Noaxx League 2

    18 October 2003

    I had the same idea, but I am to lazy too post it!
    I am more a reader than a poster :)

    The profit of how it is now working is that there are more patches in a shorter amount of time.
  4. Cammey

    Cammey Shirt Untucker

    12 October 2004
    Everton FC and Burnley FC
    Sounds like a great idea to me but i guess we will see i use patches but i dont know how to make them.
  5. RuneEdge

    RuneEdge Silent Assassin

    1 October 2003
    Manchester United
    Why dont you just put everything together yourself? I think itss an idea that only lazy people would like.

    IMO, one person shoud make the patch. He or she would have a better idea of what the final thing should look like. If too many people work on it, it'll never work cuz everyone has their own opinion.
  6. Dar

    Dar Part Timer Staff

    21 February 2003
    There have been large patching groups before, and most of us know how they ended up.

    The way it is now is probably best for the community, as even if you dont realise it, a lot of editors/ patchers do actually work with each other on different patches, just look at the readme's for patches and the acknowledgements within. :)
  7. Sulph

    Sulph Goodbye...

    28 September 2003
    Im happy to see a variety of patches though.
  8. RuneEdge

    RuneEdge Silent Assassin

    1 October 2003
    Manchester United
    You'll only get variety if different people making their own patches. Not everyone working on one patch.
  9. Sulph

    Sulph Goodbye...

    28 September 2003
    Yup, unless some unite and some dont.
  10. Madrileno

    Madrileno EVIVA LA LIGAAAA

    18 June 2005
    Real Madrid
    Yes but dont forget that there are people that like me dont know how to edit patches and mix patches etc ....

    But I have faith that if PLF sad that they are doing something similiar he will be delivering so im happy.
  11. Sulph

    Sulph Goodbye...

    28 September 2003
    It aint hard to learn mate.
  12. Madrileno

    Madrileno EVIVA LA LIGAAAA

    18 June 2005
    Real Madrid
    So you are all saying that if for example I like Kel s kits om his patch and I like I like sombody s else flags and banners on his patch and yet PLF s data on a third different patch I can mix them in a single patch all by myself ?
  13. Sulph

    Sulph Goodbye...

    28 September 2003
    Well the key thing would be to make your own patch!
  14. :: JJ ::

    :: JJ :: Guest

    Being an individualist I voted for no.
  15. Madrileno

    Madrileno EVIVA LA LIGAAAA

    18 June 2005
    Real Madrid
    And thats the key problem, my friend, not all of us know how to make their own patch or have the devices they need.

    Thats why people like me are very interested to see smart people work together to see them create a complete patch in every area down to detail.
  16. Negatrev

    Negatrev League 1

    19 September 2003
    Unforetunately with these sort of creative products, it's logistically very hard work to work together with more than a couple of other people. The best way is to wait for all the components you want to appear then either; ask for the source files so you can use the latest WEeditor to add each bit you want your self (it's as hard as copy and paste for most things) or just be patient. You will soon see combined patches where someone has modified and added to somebody elses work and release it with thanks and permission from the original author. I've already seen many groups using Fernando's english patch (there's nothing better).
  17. Madrileno

    Madrileno EVIVA LA LIGAAAA

    18 June 2005
    Real Madrid
    Yes It is possible to work together, when I sad work together I ment thay they accept that their patch is used to be improved in some other area were they dont specialize.

    For ezample Mister A translates, than Mister B uses Mister A s translated patch to work on Kits, Once Mister B is ready with Kits than Mister C can work on Boots or chants etc... on the same patch, Finally Mister D can work and update Player stats and transfers on the same patch that Mister A translated and all the others worked on, to have a Final version of the patch.

    This isnt a problem of logistics but a problem of pride and to know how to work in a team and let that other s name appear near yours on the list of people who worked on tha patch.

    It is possible and PLF has already a couple of friends he didnt mention for now that are working on somethng similar.
  18. Pere Ubu

    Pere Ubu Championship

    29 October 2002
    Important points here:

    1. ALL patches are group efforts. Even ones like my patch for WE8, which I put together by myself, I didn't actually make every texture in the patch! It had boots by Yogui, faces by Davidian, logos by Higgs, kits by Spark, Kel, biker_jim etc., a mix of stadiums. It's just the patchmaker's choice how much to do himself and how much to use from the fantastic offerings you find on Evo-Web. Reefur does a bit more of his patches himself, cos he's got various useful skills, but for most of them, the actual patchmaker only arranges everything, chooses it, inserts it, sorts out the .afs size - then to personalise the patch they make backgrounds, a music soundtrack, maybe a couple of stadiums, they edit the names of balls, stadiums etc, and maybe do a new database with transfers etc (although even that last one, people will often use a database someone else has already made). It's all stuff that you can learn if you're patient or you know a bit about computers already, but it is complicated and time-consuming. Most of us who've been here a while make personal mix patches as our main game, usually based on something like a Reefur or Sunjun patch but with changes to balls, adboards, etc, then maybe burn another couple of patches (eg a South American patch or a Classic teams patch) to play for a change. Making a full patch for release isn't much more complicated than that, it just involves more hard work and time, which not everyone can be bothered with.

    2. One of the main reasons this editing forum exists is so people don't actually have to *know* each other to collaborate. If you think of some random editors as a sample: Kel, reefur, IceMan, Sunjun, Solidus, Mauras, PLF, RenzoLouis, Fernando. None of those guys even live in the same country, but every patch you see will have something in it by at least two or three of them. So if everyone made an "evo-web patch", it would really just have most of the same things in as any other patch, it would just come down to who chose what went in. Which would be impossible with that many people, not all of whom even LIKE each other, never mind chat regularly.

    3. I think the new generation of patchers do work together more than in the old days - it's nothing to send a PM or meet someone on MSN these days. When I did my last one various top people were really helpful, and I've already spoken to a few people in preparation for my WE9 Ubumix patch (coming soon...ish :) ) It's all good, cos different editors learn things by talking to each other, and the community gets better product as a result. But ultimately you need one or two people in control of a patch, just so it has a general theme, like a visual theme running through it, or the same sense of humour if it's going to have jokes in it, music that fits the look, etc etc.
  19. PLF

    PLF Legend

    2 August 2004
    What Pere said really.

    Each patch has a wide variety of people working on different things just like you WANT... Madrilleno.

    You said it'd be good if someone does translation then shares with person B who does stadiums.. to person C who does data to person D who does flags and then boots then chants and this goeso n and on and this is basically what happens so dont worry about it.

    Once you download a complete patch ... it will have all or many of these things you like and as others said even if it doesn't it's not hard to put something you like from one patch in another.

    But anyways once we figure out the kit situation there will be many great full patches coming out for a wide variety of people's choices since not everyone likes same thing so having ONE big ultimate evo-web patch wouldn't be a good idea because people have own opinions and while some like Mr. X's kits.. some like Mr. Y's more and while some like PLF data.. some prefer default. So what would you do?? If you put PLF data in Ultimate patch.. what about people who don't want it?? So it's best I think to have 2-3 complete patches which we will have as always and then people can choose the one they like most or mix and match.

    So basically all your worries and questions shouldn't there hehe ;) everyting is gonna be fine and you're gonna be playing a top class WE9 game real soon with all the things you like in one ;).

    Take care
  20. Sulph

    Sulph Goodbye...

    28 September 2003
    That would be ideal PLF, if only it were that simple!
  21. Madrileno

    Madrileno EVIVA LA LIGAAAA

    18 June 2005
    Real Madrid
    Well Nobody sad it is simple sulph but for PLF and Pere Ubu and all others that are smarter asses than us and now how to patch and mix and etc...well for them its simplier than for us :)

    And I am very satisfied with their replies I didnt know about all this collaboration its a very healthy thing foe this community and yes Im begining to think that its better to have 2/3 complete patches so that people can choose.

    Well Iv already choose and I choose the patch witch will contain PLF data so PLF why dont we open a thread and talk there about PLF and company upcoming patch ? is it too early ?
  22. PLF

    PLF Legend

    2 August 2004
    Yes it is too early mate also wrong to call me some sort of expert or smart ass cuz i'm not. ;)

    I have not much knowledge of computers, patches in general just the basics that I've picked up from a few helpful people here over past year or so.

    Also any discussion about that patch(s) containing PLF data can be done so in my thread, Madrilleno , no need for new threads as nothing is even official yet due to we9 kit encryption problems.

    Take care mate
  23. TikTikTikTikTik

    TikTikTikTikTik *****

    7 August 2004
    I posted a reply to this on pesinsight however i didnt get a complete response.

    Is it possible to make ppf's of parts of the game thats been edited. For example:

    And that you could mix and match to your own taste what you would want. If so that, imo, would be great.

    You could then make a selection based on what you want in the game and which version of the ppf you want. (reefer menu or someone else's menu.ppf, standaard database or plf's or someone else's, ect)

    Im not sure if its possible to do, but as there are ppf update's reguraly released im guessing it is. Correct me if im wrong.

    The main positives of this is that:
    -non patchers like myself can select what they want and not have to choose between 2/3 patches which mayby collectively contain what we want but individually not( matter of taste)
    - download size will be limited, no need to download 2/3 500/700mb files to find out what you want
    - Would make it faster and less work to create a patch (specialist do data and then are finished, at the same time others do kits,ect)

    A negative or positive depending on your outlook is that copyright of the work will free up. Example if i would want plf.data in my patch i would not have to download a certain one which contains it which means recognistion will be garantied. Also this will free up people trying to make patches based on other people's work. After all whats the point if everybody can get the section that they want and make their own mix for themselves.This will keep recognition for people's individual work and make it pointless for others to release a total patch that is only 25%, if that, of their own work. Offcourse someone could, but seeing the patching scene im guessing it would very quickly be spotted.
  24. Madrileno

    Madrileno EVIVA LA LIGAAAA

    18 June 2005
    Real Madrid
    Emm I think there are people capable of doinf that but im not one of them sorry.
  25. Sulph

    Sulph Goodbye...

    28 September 2003
    Also we must take into account that not all the patchers are here at Evo Web
  26. Pere Ubu

    Pere Ubu Championship

    29 October 2002
    You can't do that with ppf files, because of the way they're made. They look at the whole of the original ISO file, then the whole of the patched ISO, and just remember the differences. SO when you apply them, they can only understand the ISO you're patching if it's EXACTLY the same as the one the ppf was made for (that is, usually the original unpatched iso).

    Dkz Studio patches can work in this way though, because a .dkz patch only looks for the NAMES of the files it's replacing. So you can apply it to a game that's already been patched, and the worst that will happen is that you overwrite some stuff that you've already patched in. I.e. it doesn't need to check what's IN the files it's patching, it just replaces them.

    But ppf patchers are better for noobs because they're so easy. Dkz patches aren't hard to apply, but you need to know how to use Dkz Studio first.

    Anyway, if you really want to mix and match patches yourself, all you REALLY need is Graphic Studio and a bit of space on your harddrive - make a new iso, patch it with whatever ppf you want to take stuff from, then look at an AFS map that shows you what goes where, find all the changed files in the new iso with Graphic Studio, extract them and then insert them in the ISO you're using for your main game.

    This should work fine for simple stuff, but sooner or later you'll find that things are the wrong size to go in, too big. This is where you need to learn how to resize an O_TEXT in AFS Explorer. It's not that hard, but I'm not writing a tutorial for it here cos there are loads around already if you search.

    Alternatively, you can use dkZ studio again, which will insert files even if they're too big, and then burn your game with UDF/ISO mode in Nero instead of putting all the individual AFS files back into the main iso. This doesn't always work, but it usually does. It means you can't make an iso from your game disc though, so if you want to carry on editing, you must keep the files you burnt from as backup.

    This stuff isn't just useful for mixing patches, it's also the way you insert individual things into WE9 as people make them - eg new stadiums or balls or bootpacks - without waiting for a ppf patch. If you've not done much editing yourself, then test it out by inserting one small thing, eg go to the new Nou Camp thread, get the new Nou Camp (it's just six small files to insert that are the right size to fit), get Graphic Studio and insert. Once you see how easy it is to insert simple things yourself, you'll have the confidence to start trying out the trickier stuff.

    But then, of course, when I make my WE9 patch, you can stop mixing and matching altogether and just stick with the perfection...lol...
  27. TikTikTikTikTik

    TikTikTikTikTik *****

    7 August 2004
    tnx for the anwser pere. Was wondering if it was possible, shame it isnt as they do work really easy. Been trying to mix and match and am normally good at this kind of stuff but am still finding it a bit hard. Have been trying to edit the pitches myself but that really didnt work :lol:. Changing menu backgrounds and stuff though was easy enough. Having looked at the we9 files and decided to wait for a patch. The main thing i was looking for was decent pitches as i really cant stand having those stupid jaggy lines in the pitches.
  28. Pere Ubu

    Pere Ubu Championship

    29 October 2002
    The pitch textures are MAN'S WORK...lol... not easy.

    You can change the grass-cut pattern though. Take the bmp that shows a straight line grass pattern and just drop it over the wobbly one in, eg, Parc Des Princes.
  29. Nniao

    Nniao Conference

    3 August 2003

    There is nothing better than COMPETITION.
    and for that :

    ############### TOPIC CLOSED ####################
  30. PLF

    PLF Legend

    2 August 2004
    Yup agreed.

    Not to mention if there was anymore people working on a patch than there already is cuz already it's a huge # of people working and compiling to put one thing together there'd potentially be problems with creative decisions as the more people/decisionmakers you have.. the more there is to argue over as well.

    I think everything is as great as it is and I think that was a very good post Pere to give some of the rather more new people.. an idea of how mix and match is done.

    I know I would've really appreciated that post about a year ago when I joined this community and didn't know much and was wondering about same things so there is nothing wrong with asking these.. after all we all learned it sometime... ;)

    Bottom line is everything is gonna be fine soon and the game that Konami makes and the things that we do to enhance the gameplay and fun will only get better and better each year ;) so I'm excited! :mrgeen:

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