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Why are so few football players inventive in their play

Discussion in 'Football' started by pes4lyfe, 23 February 2012.

  1. pes4lyfe

    pes4lyfe Champions League

    4 July 2011
    Think of your Neymars, Ronaldihnos etc...

    They always wanna try a move/flick/random skill and runs to make things happen. Its like they dont even know what they are gonna do next and they ty crazy things.

    Most footballers play simple, control, pass, move etc...

    When I play football I like to do crazy things, its fun.

    Why are there so few pros with the mentalitys of your Ronaldinhos etc?
     
  2. Valon

    Valon Banned

    30 September 2010
    Atlanta GA
    Liverpool & Lecce
    I think Ronaldinho bring football to next level , he was the only who did such an amazing things in field ,

    I dont even know that things exist before than Ronaldinho show them (im talking for profesional football and do them on pitch)

    never saw a complete match of neymar so cant really say he do or he dont , but for do those things u need to be a very big talent , thing that Ronaldinho a lot !
     
  3. pes4lyfe

    pes4lyfe Champions League

    4 July 2011
    Mmm I dunno at my 5-a-side team there are a few of us and likewise want to try tricks and beat players. Im sure most pros have these skills if even a guy like me can do that and does do them.

    I think many players just lack, courage, imagination, creatviivty, inventiveness and just the craziness do try soemthing different. Off course losing the ball for the team is not good so its easier just to do what is simple.

    Even on my 5-a-side league I know players better than me and even my teammates better than me but they dont try things I do...So its also about mentality? I play football to show-off tbh, I like to show-off. I guess players like Ronaldinho were also showmen. High flair, want to have fun?
     
    Last edited: 23 February 2012
  4. PIPA23

    PIPA23 retired :) Staff

    21 June 2007
    England
    LFC
    Balotelli tryed a back heal and he was sent off by coach for not respecting the rival...

    says all about how the current coach looks for win more than entertain the crowd..

    football in backstage has become buisiness for only wealthy people to attend matches and in terms of on field matters it has became to a game where 1:0 is a result you need to defend rather than go for more...

    but the teams overall are stronger , especially in england you have Stoke playing europa league or similar.. there is not many points between them so it´s very strong league..

    players are still inventive, but all depends on how the coach will let them express themselfs...and how much space the coach will give them...

    Ronaldinho in his Barca days was top talent, he had free role, the same Gerrard in the time of his best years.. free role means that the coach knows this player will do something without him even trying to tell him what to do...

    Zidane, Ronaldinho were genious attacking thread, but in terms of inovation, not many is discoussed about more defensive players, as DM, CB, or even full backs..where Alves stands out.. or even keepers...

    what is exactly inventive aspects of players, only making tricks or playing in a differetnt way than any other player did so far..?
     
  5. pes4lyfe

    pes4lyfe Champions League

    4 July 2011
    True point, Like Balotelli messed up and it was only even a freindly and a big fuss was made.

    If you make a bad pass and lose the ball its not a big deal though its bad.

    If you try and do a super flick or soemthing and lose the ball your team and coaches will go mad.

    I guess on a non-competitive level such as freinds or 5-a-side then you can do what you want, its no big deal.

    I guess in the real pro football its just not acceptable to lose possesion so stupidly nor is one to play so greedily so its not encouraged?

    Only the true greats are allowed by coaches to express it.
     
  6. pes4lyfe

    pes4lyfe Champions League

    4 July 2011
    I mean by inventive, rather than making the simple pass try a skill move to beat a player, try a dribble all the way past 3 players, try something crazy with your feet...etc..etc..Be direct and just go for the goal and go for it...

    YouTube - Goal of the year : Neymar Amazing Goal VS Flamengo
     
  7. daikirai

    daikirai statement™

    3 November 2003
    Santa Rosa, CA, USA
    Liverpool
    I would blame it on coaching. Players aren't coached to express themselves, they're coached to fit into a system. Yes managers would like the players personal strengths/ability to shine, but within the system.
    Have this problem a lot in the US (In my opinion anyway), with the whole Pay to Play structure. Players are pumped out like robots, so no one ends up really standing out
     
  8. pes4lyfe

    pes4lyfe Champions League

    4 July 2011
    I think maybe the fact I rarely/never played for any clubs as a youngster is why I am different. I mean I was never told or forced upon by any coaches to play rigidly or whatever.

    Thats why a lot of brazilians are liek that..they play on the streets and beaches and then one day play for a club they have already built up this flair and exciting mentally of style of play.
     
  9. daikirai

    daikirai statement™

    3 November 2003
    Santa Rosa, CA, USA
    Liverpool
    You can see the same thing in basketball, to a lesser extent. Players who have played in elementary/high school all their lives are more 'structured' and players who haven't have a bit of flair to their game; crossovers, passes, etc.
    I didn't really get into basketball until just before high school, once I played people in high school it was very odd to see everyone dribble dribble pass, over and over, no one trying something to break anyone down.

    If someone has been brought up through clubs his entire life he will have a vastly different game to someone who played on the streets/pick up games only.
     
  10. pes4lyfe

    pes4lyfe Champions League

    4 July 2011
    Yeh and specifically in certain countries...here in Uk I remember playing for a club once just before I went into high school and for my school team..Not only was the coaches telling the players to play long ball so where my teammates..It was all about long ball, long ball, long ball....I just wanted to dribble and stuff.

    I then remember again playing for some teams when I was 15-17 and again not only my coaches but the teammates same mentality...get ball kick it up to stikers, long ball, long ball.....

    In UK youth coaches are terrible and so many teammates just dumb idiots who think best way to play is get ball forward ASAP.

    I think if you are brought up in Spain or Brazil they encourage other aspects of the game.

    Also, here in UK its always size over ability. I was skinny and fast but the coaches always preffered the big strong type looking guys even if they had 2 left feet.

    I know a lot off kids like me on the streets play just for fun and with flair but we all kinda overlooked when it came to the real youth teams. They only wanted the tall strong kids who could kick the ball the hardest and furthest.
     
  11. PIPA23

    PIPA23 retired :) Staff

    21 June 2007
    England
    LFC
    pes4lyfe BIG players are inventive all the time, it´s also a matter how INVENTIVE or effective the defence is... big players are big not becouse they break low team defences or play with fantastic skills against low clubs...

    big players for me are those who always amaze in top leagues for long period of time..

    i don´t even look on cup as world cup to be determiner of some top class quality of player, becouse it might be that the world teams are pick from best players possible, but many time it´s not this case..and it´s after all a cup anyway... in a cup anything can happend, underdogs can go far, and top class players will be destroyed by some stupid ref for example... remember england goal not seen by the ref but all others in world?

    my point is, that... if you show me Neymar vid and ask why players are not so much inventive...it´s bad example.. for me best example of a player being inventive is anything Silva from City produced this season...or Messi maybe...Xavi...this are fantastic players with brain like only few out there this days...
     
  12. pes4lyfe

    pes4lyfe Champions League

    4 July 2011
    Silva did spring to mind a lot....He is always direct as is MEssi and looking to make attacks happen and take defenders on.

    But with skill. I mean take Walcott he only uses his speed, knock ball and run...But Silva or Messi liek to use skill to beat players.

    And ronaldinos and Neymar and McGeady etc..they try rare moves you dotn often see other players attempt.

    YouTube - McGeady Spin
     
  13. matherto

    matherto 12 Times

    13 October 2004
    St. Helens, Merseyside.
    Manchester United
    Not every footballer is capable of doing the tricks.

    Most of the time doing a trick is risky unless you're one of the very best who is capable of making it worth it. If you give the ball away because you've tried to be fancy then you're just asking to be slated for it, especially when the simple approach would've worked better.
     
  14. PIPA23

    PIPA23 retired :) Staff

    21 June 2007
    England
    LFC
    for me a star player is not a player who has the skill in strenght or legs, but in brain.. in terms of skills any player can make runs, any better can make dribble or score a good free kick..but there is very few not physically big players who have the idea or football brain like no other.. combined with skill and personal quality you only can pick very few players this days like that... + of course they need to perform for longer than one season to be considered legends..that´s why i don´t like if a player wins golden ball for good 2 weeks in world cup matches...
     
  15. pes4lyfe

    pes4lyfe Champions League

    4 July 2011
    I guess I am reffering to as mathero says skill moves, as would be reffered to in FIFA games.

    Inventive I mean by using 5 star skill moves lol...And combos off skill moves.

    As Mathero says the risk/reward thing...If you lose the ball, big trouble!!

    Mathero also states maybe many players cannot do these so well. I wonder why that is I can do and do actually do many skill moves when I play football 360 roulette, fancy flicks, elasticos etc...all the time I always am trying moves and Im a nobody.

    Ok I may suck in other ways Im skinny and not got the gretest football brain so Im not a pro footballer obviously.

    BUt I guess I have high flair but its not as if I developed it. I just am fast and agile also due to my build. But if I can do all these moves and stuff effectively then why cant most pros...Surely they are much better than me. I dont know?
     
  16. Ronaldinho_23

    Ronaldinho_23 Premiership

    11 February 2007
    Spain
    Fc. Barcelona , Juventus
    ronaldinho
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    others
     
  17. ThomasGOAL

    ThomasGOAL Retired Footballer

    15 March 2003
    France
    Last edited: 25 February 2012
  18. ALBICELESTE2010

    ALBICELESTE2010 Champions League

    13 July 2006
    Watford
    Argentina & Watford
    Which has been absent since 1990. But the myth of joga bonito is perpetuated.

    Players like Ronaldinho were discarded by Dunga because of his unorthodox style and also off the field behaviour.

    Football is an enormous business. Fear kicks in and players are coached to play safety first with efficiency for fear of a needless mistake.

    Even Messi although he could pull off a flip flap or roulette rarely will do so. Diego used to pull tricks all the time.

    Another player like Pastore is also criticized for his flamboynat dragbacks, flicks and overhead passes.
     
  19. Neoexodus

    Neoexodus SLB Juve Barça Arsenal

    8 November 2007
    Portugal
    Football is no longer the offensive minded game that once was. You guys need to understand that. This question only comes from someone that isn't concious of how much the tactical knowledge evolved in the last 10/15 years.
    Small clubs now have the understanding that big clubs had back then, that says a lot about how much globalization and the overall understanding of the game evolved.

    A player can no longer be a game changer. Not without a good team behind him. I would bet anyone that we we'll never ever see a 1986 Worldcup Maradona again. Its utopia to think that nowadays you can be, on your own, as decisive as Pelé, Maradona, Muller, etc.
    All this to say that dribbles are still a part of the game, they just aren't that effective any more unless your talking about superb players doing it like Messi, Nasri or Robben. A wrong move can unbalance a team and cause a dificult situation for the team that know needs to make a defensive transition asap and if this isn't correctly timed and done fast your likely to give a goal away, specially if we are talking about the high level that even a second league has today.
     
  20. Ronaldinho_23

    Ronaldinho_23 Premiership

    11 February 2007
    Spain
    Fc. Barcelona , Juventus
    because this is football, no FIFA STREET.
     
  21. Review

    Review Guest

    That is Barca in a nutshell. Physical strength is not that important. Their team is build around players with good technique, tactial knowledge, and speed of mind.
     
  22. ImpossibleYesbutitsTrue

    ImpossibleYesbutitsTrue Banned

    9 October 2010
    For me its not about tricks, not about the ovbious eye candy everyone can see, its about the simple things and the timing, and how it looks.

    and i can write quite a few such sentences, quote cruijff and go on.. sounds always funny..:p
     
  23. Godotelli

    Godotelli Stroking Silva's Hair

    27 July 2012
    Manchester
    Manchester City
    Le Tissier was doing it whilst Ronaldinho still had his babyteeth.
     
  24. sonoman

    sonoman Premiership

    13 November 2003
    México
    Mexico / Türkiye
    this is what i love the most about some italian players (Pirlo, Del Piero, Nesta, etc)
    CLASS

    beautiful footie it's not about doing 200 stepovers, it's just perfect timing..
    elegant, precise timing
     
  25. bonjovifan

    bonjovifan League 2

    16 October 2005
    Maidstone United
    I seem to remember Nani getting a lot of stick for his show-boating a few years back, I don't watch a lot of Man United games so I can't really say if he changed because of that.
     
  26. gerd

    gerd Retired Footballer

    8 January 2002
    Over the moon
    KRC Genk, Spurs
    Why are so few football players inventive in their play?
    Because of most youth coaches and because of almost all parents.

    Youth football is not about winning or results, but about learning football skills and searching elegant constructive solutions to problems.

    Watch youth matches for a while and you will see what will be the better players. Of course they should have a minimum of skill but it's not all about skill. If you see youth players it's not about the dribblings or the the step-overs. The real talented players are the ones that are looking up before they even receive and control the ball. At that moment they already know what they will do with the ball. These are the inventive players and these are the players one should stimulate even if they are physically disadvantaged.

    Sometimes you see immensively gifted players who just don't see it. The best example of a very gifted player who doesn't see it is Steven Gerrard. Am i the one who is saying that? No (well in a way yes, but i'm not the first)? No, a certain R. Bennitez has claimed this.

    Is Gerrard to blame? No not at all. His youth coaches are to blame. Imagine what an immense player Gerrard could have been if had been trained and encouraged to think about football.

    Now what concerns English football. English football have a couple enormous disadvantages.

    1. no tradition of skill and inventive play (just hoof it forwards, particularly at youth level);
    2. the physical aspect is much too important
    3 More and more foreigners block homegrown players
    4 English players are far too expensive (and i'm not talking Andy Carroll here, but the average good championship player is far too expensive for good foreign clubs).
    5 English football culture is still highly insulated, the average English football fan or player doesn't care about foreign competitions (Shearer who had never heard of Hatem Ben Arfa is a striking example).

    In the near future English club will continue to attract all the best foreigners, but your national team will suffer enormously because of it.
     
  27. drekkard

    drekkard International

    23 March 2005
    Barcelona
    Barça, Arsenal, Ajax
    To me football it's played best in the brain. So I value any pass of Xavi more than 100 stepovers and flicks from any shower player. I value a good movement, a good pass, a good lecture of what your team needs. That's being inventive for me. Creating spaces, using them, beating your opponent by thinking faster and learning new ways to beat them.

    There are others who prefer the tricks, or the athletic aspect, to me it's all about playing with your head first. That's because I spent some years in the youth teams of Barcelona and there I was taught to play that way. And I'm not talking about the current La Masia, I'm talking about the early 80s, when even at Barcelona small or skinny players were left out in benefit of the athletic ones!

    Let me put it in other words: a trick will beat a man. A good movement and a 1-2 can beat a whole defense. Laudrup was an incredible inventive player and never did any trick or flashy movement.

    But yes, current football lacks passion, risk and most of all, it's too athletic and too deffensive. 90% of coaches add nothing to the world of football.

    I remember the times where big clubs had to have a very athletic DMF (Vieira, Davids, Desailly...). Barcelona fell for that for some years that were absolutely dreadfful. Then they went back to the roots of Cruyff philosophy that proved that you can beat all those athletes with the smallest team in the competition if you have a collection of brilliant minds.

    I said I played in the young teams of Barcelona. I wasn't athletic at all (think of a Guardiola constitution, a bit smaller), I wasn't specially gifted in terms of technique. I couldn't head the ball to save my life. But I was good at thinking, and I was fast with my mind so I didn't need to be fast with my legs. Of course, at the end the guys that had a fast mind AND fast legs went on and I didn't, but that's another story...
     
  28. info0

    info0 Banned

    3 September 2011
    Poland - Lodz
    Santos FC :)
    :D

    The player I rate highest comes from Barcelona. His name is Iniesta.

    But it isn't Iniesta who caught my attention, it's the guy who taught Iniesta his croqueta and elegant play style. The man who now is manager of Swansea.

    Michael Laudrup.

    YouTube - Michael Laudrup Brilliance

    Like I said somewhere else, it's not about tricks or goals, but sometimes passes to make the goal are best thing ever. ;)

    This was the highest rated player for me. Until that guy came:

    YouTube - Ronaldinho Magic Passes

    And ruined that perfect World I had in my head. Ronaldinho is a genius whatever people say. Look at his passing, assists and whatnot!! Any part of his body was lethal for making... Passes.

    Shame he got unfit, but now saw some games he had in Brazil league and the king is back ;).

    Joyous moments :D.

    Still bit worried players are getting LESS and LESS creative with their game. Basing their game style on fancy footwork, but no substance. Pretty much like C. Ronaldo... Doing million step overs getting nowhere <lol>.
     
  29. Godotelli

    Godotelli Stroking Silva's Hair

    27 July 2012
    Manchester
    Manchester City
    I agree with much of what you say here. England should have built the mid-90s team around Le Tissier (and Gazza).

    It's also a great shame for us what happened to Gazza. He was destined to become a great before his injury/s
     
  30. beachryan

    beachryan Golden Boot Winner

    4 July 2003
    Bermuda
    A big part of it is also that football has become so incredibly tactical. I'm pretty sure it was Gary Neville who was saying that now when teams train they really do prepare down to like 3 yards of the pitch. So, for example, a full back knows his opposition - which foot they prefer, what runs they make, when they'll shoot, when they'll cross etc - and trains all week with that in mind.

    It might not have been Neville, but some professional player who I can't remember was saying there's no joy in playing football at the top level. It's not about creation, it's about rigidly following a tactical blueprint. You don't think for yourself, who do what you've been trained to do. It's almost more like the NFL where players have set plays drawn up for them, and they just go through the motions.

    Obviously in every generation there are exceptions (Ronnie, Zidane, Messi etc) but the vast majority of pros are there to do their job, plainly and simply.
     

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