The Retro-PES Corner

With just under two weeks to go until the Youth Test League starts the fixtures have been announced. The league looks up for grabs for any one of the eight sides. Each have their hot prospects who are expected to show just why they are highly touted.

A quick glance at the teams and players to look out for:

Atalanta:

Atalanta have a lot of good solid players that will surely be a test for anyone. In midfield they have Da Riva who could thread a pass through the eye of a needle. They also have Rinaldi and Panada who can find a pass in there as well. Nivokazi and Kobacki look the likely front pair although there are other options.

Bayern Munich:

Bayern will be there or thereabouts I think. In goal they have Germany's World Youth Cup keeper, Fruchtl, who is one of the best keepers in the tournament. He's not the only one player from the German team as you'd expect, there are a few. Meier is a wide man who has quick feet, a decent passer and an even better crosser of the ball. Add that to a real eye for a goal and you have a real threat on your hands. There's a whole squad we could go on about here but for now we'll leave you with World Youth Cup tournament flop Zirkzee, who to be fair only had one match, but it was a bit of a stinker. You can be sure he'll be looking to show what he's about in this league.


Dinamo Zagreb:

Marin is the obvious go to guy here. A player who had he lasted more than 46 minutes of the WY Cup may now be waiting to play a Quarter Final with Croatia. However Ireland 'removed' him from the game and the rest is history. He will be a thorn in anyone's side in this league.


FC Porto:

The standout up front is another guy who fluffed his lines in the WY Cup. Fabio Silva. With a bit of everything he'll be a menace to any defence he comes up against as long as he doesn't bring his Cup form with him that is. Sousa will most likely do most of the probing in midfield with his typical Portuguese technique and passing ability.


Lyon:

Lyon have some real attacking talent in this squad, more on that in a bit. At the back they have a solid if unspectacular keeper in Girardot. Lyon, though, is a team that gets better the further forward you look. Starting with 15yr old Cherki, an AM/WF who can tip-toe through the tightest of spaces, never mind the tulips. Da Silva and Thomas are also real talents in that midfield area as well. Up front is Griffiths, the current WY Cup Golden Boot leader, Gouiri, who was supposed to lead France to the WY Cup title but didn't and a selection of others that most teams would be happy to field. They may be too top loaded but it should be entertaining.


Marseille:

AM Khetir, is quick, agile and a very accurate passer, probably more likely to be bothering the assists charts than the goal charts. Aouachria is made from the same mould and also out of the same production line comes Phiiponeau who is option three in there. So it looks like making chances should not be a problem for Marseille if any two of these are playing. Who's going to put them away might be the question. There's several candidates that all have their pluses. It will be interesting to see who gets the job.


Tottenham:


Their stand out guy will likely be Irishman Parrot who is set for a Quarter Final match tomorrow. Richards may well accompany him in the front line, although not for Ireland tomorrow. In midfield is Skipp, who already has first team appearances under his belt and is strong at most aspects of the game in midfield. Oakley-Boothe, who's had a fine World Youth Cup with England, is in midfield as well and this could be quite a partnership. Their defence may give them a headache or two but they do have pace their which will help them out.


Torino:


Torino have what could be a potent strike force in Ibrahimi and Millico. The former is strong, surprisingly good in the dribble despite his 193cm's and has a decent leap too which with his head start could cause real problems from set pieces. The latter is the polar opposite. 173cm tall, good in the air (if it comes in low enough), very quick and agile and always ready to pounce on any loose ball. He has a unerring accuracy with his shots to back it all up.


Who will be Top Scorer? Who will be Player of the Season? Who will be the Champions?


Test Lge Fixt.JPG
 
Sooooooo........

The Dinner has one big question about this COM vs COM Youth League. Penalty taking in PES, I think we can all agree, is a bit of a weak point in the game series. Basically stick the ball low and down the middle and it is a certain goal 999 times out of 1000.

Do the COM games have many penalties awarded and can managers nerf a game by instructing penalty shooting down the middle, which is a dead cert ?

:BLINK::BLINK::BLINK:
 
That missed summed up Openda's YWC. He has all the technical ability but makes poor decisions in the final 3rd. Opposite to him is Leoni who plays well above his young age. Almost reminds me of Pirlo in some ways.
Masangu will be missed! Will have to look who can replace him, or maybe do a reformation...
 
Sooooooo........

The Dinner has one big question about this COM vs COM Youth League. Penalty taking in PES, I think we can all agree, is a bit of a weak point in the game series. Basically stick the ball low and down the middle and it is a certain goal 999 times out of 1000.

Do the COM games have many penalties awarded and can managers nerf a game by instructing penalty shooting down the middle, which is a dead cert ?

:BLINK::BLINK::BLINK:


There's been 3 or 4 penalties I think so far (in game) and I think one was missed. You can't decide where they put it as manager. The penalty shoot outs have been full of drama. They aim in all corners of the goal as well as the middle (and wide!)

Here's the Switzerland v France shoot out



That missed summed up Openda's YWC. He has all the technical ability but makes poor decisions in the final 3rd. Opposite to him is Leoni who plays well above his young age. Almost reminds me of Pirlo in some ways.
Masangu will be missed! Will have to look who can replace him, or maybe do a reformation...

Yeah I really like that Leoni. It think it was him (I'm almost sure but could be wrong) who dinked that ball over the top for Cuypers when he miscontrolled, what a ball that was. I agree with Openda as well, it seems to always want to turn back which is a surprise given his pace. It's as if he's playing in first gear. Maybe you could rent a wall to replace Masangu :D
 
There's been 3 or 4 penalties I think so far (in game) and I think one was missed. You can't decide where they put it as manager. The penalty shoot outs have been full of drama. They aim in all corners of the goal as well as the middle (and wide!)

Here's the Switzerland v France shoot out





Yeah I really like that Leoni. It think it was him (I'm almost sure but could be wrong) who dinked that ball over the top for Cuypers when he miscontrolled, what a ball that was. I agree with Openda as well, it seems to always want to turn back which is a surprise given his pace. It's as if he's playing in first gear. Maybe you could rent a wall to replace Masangu :D

Thanks @mattmid , just shows, computers can't take over the world yet. Aiming for corners is a waste of time in PES.
 
Match Day #25


Belgium v South Korea



Belgium, having already dispensed with Scotland and Brazil, go into this one in a confident mood. Cuypers who has been lethal in front of goal so far will be looking to at least join Griffiths of England at the top of the Golden Boot charts. With the England man's tournament already over the chance to claim a cherished prize is in his sights with the nearest other challenger Edlehofer of Austria on 3 goals, who will play later in the week. They will not disrespect South Korea but they must fancy their chances of a Semi Final appearance. On their showing so far you'd be wise not to bet against them, particularly as their manager will also be wearing his lucky socks.



South Korea meanwhile are nobody's mugs. Expected to have long since been back home they refuse to go away. Upsetting Portugal in the first round was followed up with a solid 1-0 win over Bulgaria. They are resilient and have shown enough up front to suggest they can trouble Belgium.



View attachment 17486








A strange kind of game in a way. Belgium had many chances to get the job done much earlier than they did. Key man Cuypers missing a golden chance when clean through and then minutes later a lovely ball over the top saw him take a bad first chance to allow the keeper to collect. They then conspired to hit a man on the line from 6 yards when 90% of the goal was wide open and also hit the bar late on after they had finally scored. Despite all that though, South Korea were always in the game even if ultimately they could not find a decent finish with Delanghe again looking confident in goal, making one excellent save in the first half and some more routine one's later. Ultimately a deserved victory for Belgium but far from the relaxed one it might have been had they had their shooting boots on.


M.o.M Masungu an absolute mountain in midfield who would appear to be a magnet to the ball, although a lose bit of control in the first half almost cost his side a goal. His second yellow card of the tournament will result in a big hole to fill in midfield for the semi final though.


Up: Baiye: Another good performance alongside Masangu in the middle of the Belgium team.

Up: Leoni: Produced what he'd threatened to do all tournament with some lovely passing and got the winning goal, although how much he knew about it I don't know.

Down: Cuypers: Harsh, and only because of the high standards he's already set this tournament. Could have had the game won for Belgium in the first 30 minutes but looked like he had his boots on the wrong feet today.

Belgium just hate me. Better than the Scotland effort? Scoreline suggests so but not the other stats. Only one stats counts they say.

Vote so far for the Full League following our test league is

Opt 1) 2
Opt 2) 1

still need votes from @jihado86 @wildwind @Flipper the Priest

So we have two options.

1) We use real life teams (same teams as you have in the test league - but you can change to another if you wish as long as nobody else already has them) You can pick 12 players over 21 from their real life squad for 2019/20 the remaining 20 will come from your team's youth players from the World Youth OF.

2) We use our Amador file and you can play as your region for the team name (if you aren't from anywhere in the Amador file we can rename a team to your region if you wish or you can just pick one) Each Amador team will keep their 12 oldest players and as above you then select 20 youth players from the team you are using in the test league (or you can change the team if you want as long as nobody else has them)

* All future youth players coming into the league will be real players in either option.

Option 1 for me.

Thanks @mattmid , just shows, computers can't take over the world yet. Aiming for corners is a waste of time in PES.

For all their glory, golden era PES games didn't do pens well. Especially PES4 onwards. They're still atrocious now, in PES2019.
 
Belgium just hate me. Better than the Scotland effort? Scoreline suggests so but not the other stats. Only one stats counts they say.



Option 1 for me.



For all their glory, golden era PES games didn't do pens well. Especially PES4 onwards. They're still atrocious now, in PES2019.

@Flipper the Priest , well Flipper, that is nice to hear that at least one thing remains the same. And honestly, the poor penalty mechanics went hand in hand with the so bad, it was kinda funny, Brackers and Brookers commentary in the old games.

The gameplay made up for all these little screw ups......

:BEER:
 
I actually like the retro PES penalty kick system. While it is a lot simpler, it is the simplicity that helps add to the drama. A common theme in the retro PES games is that attributes are king, and they seem to play a big part in PK's. I notice I have less "control" where I am able to put it, but by relying on the attributes, seem to create a more unpredictable experience. I aim at a general direction, and then the CPU takes care of the rest. I like it!

I also notice this in FK's as well. During my Tottenham ML I can only remember giving up 1 FK goal to Mr. C. Ronaldo... Drogba hit the bar twice, and all other FK's near the goal were no where close. I scored 2 FK's during my season. Jenas scored a lovely kick, and Bale scored a peach of a FK to win the game for us.
 
@Special4988 From watching these CPU penalties I think the mentality stat plays a big part as well. I forget which team it was now, I think it was South Korea actually, the big midfielder, Kang is it? He has mentality of 95 and I remember in the first round he took the final penalty and tucked it away nicely. It was the kick to win it as well so the pressure was on, that mentality had to have helped.


@Flipper the Priest Although Belgium had chances to win it by 2 or 3 in the end it always felt like South Korea could nick a goal at 1-0 down. Ultimately though the front three didn't really produce even though they actually had more shots on target than Belgium. The rest of the team played pretty well. If it's any consolation you may well have gone out twice to the eventual winners!
 
I actually like the retro PES penalty kick system. While it is a lot simpler, it is the simplicity that helps add to the drama. A common theme in the retro PES games is that attributes are king, and they seem to play a big part in PK's. I notice I have less "control" where I am able to put it, but by relying on the attributes, seem to create a more unpredictable experience. I aim at a general direction, and then the CPU takes care of the rest. I like it!

I also notice this in FK's as well. During my Tottenham ML I can only remember giving up 1 FK goal to Mr. C. Ronaldo... Drogba hit the bar twice, and all other FK's near the goal were no where close. I scored 2 FK's during my season. Jenas scored a lovely kick, and Bale scored a peach of a FK to win the game for us.

@Special4988 and @mattmid , great points gents.

The stats in penalties can work in a Bobby Baggio kind of way.

(Nostalgia side road: USA '94 a young Dinner in Ireland and Rocko in Sweden are watching the most gifted footballer of his generation play the worst Brazil team ever to appear in a World Cup, Dunga and Co against the Divine Ponytail. And he blazes it high over the crossbar. I shed a tear, even though the azzurri broke Irish hearts in 1990.
He was too talented to take a penalty. It was too prosaic and basic a skill for Roberto Baggio.)

Matters said mentality is what counts. And no other stat really does. A midfield hard man like Macco or that guy Kang will just smack the ball low and straight time after time.
COM keepers in PES 1 through PES 6 always jump out of the way.


:BOUNCE::BOUNCE::BOUNCE:
 
@Special4988 and @mattmid , great points gents.

The stats in penalties can work in a Bobby Baggio kind of way.

(Nostalgia side road: USA '94 a young Dinner in Ireland and Rocko in Sweden are watching the most gifted footballer of his generation play the worst Brazil team ever to appear in a World Cup, Dunga and Co against the Divine Ponytail. And he blazes it high over the crossbar. I shed a tear, even though the azzurri broke Irish hearts in 1990.
He was too talented to take a penalty. It was too prosaic and basic a skill for Roberto Baggio.)

Matters said mentality is what counts. And no other stat really does. A midfield hard man like Macco or that guy Kang will just smack the ball low and straight time after time.
COM keepers in PES 1 through PES 6 always jump out of the way.


:BOUNCE::BOUNCE::BOUNCE:

Don't get me wrong, there's such a things as too much control. But I think Golden Era PES was a little too random from the spot. Not in keeping with the free kick controls which are simple, beautiful, and yet to be surpassed.
 
Don't get me wrong, there's such a things as too much control. But I think Golden Era PES was a little too random from the spot. Not in keeping with the free kick controls which are simple, beautiful, and yet to be surpassed.

Well I certainly agree the free kick controls were far more complete and abilities and skills made a massive difference. Often too hard in some editions like PES 2.
 
I actually like the retro PES penalty kick system. While it is a lot simpler, it is the simplicity that helps add to the drama. A common theme in the retro PES games is that attributes are king, and they seem to play a big part in PK's. I notice I have less "control" where I am able to put it, but by relying on the attributes, seem to create a more unpredictable experience. I aim at a general direction, and then the CPU takes care of the rest. I like it!
I'm glad you brought this up. In recent weeks i've been thinking about this every time a penalty comes up in one of my games then i forget to mention it in here. When i was a kid, I used to HATE this penalty system because of the simple reason why i love these games now. It's algorithm based.

Just like the algorithm is infused with the stats of your players to create this juxtaposition of individuality and a sense of unpredictability in open play by using limited technology to it's full potential, Konami understood there was a dilemma "How can we faithfully recreate the drama of penalty kicks in our game, With our limitations?" They applied this genius to the penalty kick system - The user gives the instructions; The player carries out the action. It's a simple formula that crafts that circle of mental challenge, Form and stat influenced game play that works so well.

I used to hate the lack of control i had over my penalty kicks when i was a kid but as an adult i understand what their vision was, It's a game interpreting reality - Now they're games that try to replicate reality & by giving the user too much cognitive control, Ironically it causes a strangely artificial replication of football. It's less about virtual players and recreating their nuances and what their capable of in certain situations and now it's about the human and his skill with the controller overriding that, Breaking the immersion in a way.

Notice how on PS2 PES there's not way you can ping pong the ball from the back line all the way up to attack with first time passes? It's literally impossible, Because the ball physics and context of your players position was correct all along - More realistic than it ever has been. The ball the simply runs out of momentum, It's spin betrays you and it;s just simply very difficult to pass the ball first time in a direction your not facing with out controlling and resetting yourself.

Nowadays the balls physics seem to just reset every time it's "possessed" by a new player, It almost resembles a hockey puck more than a football if anything which is why you see these videos of these guys patting themselves on the back like their some kind of football genius or like they've accomplished something significant that really anyone with could hand eye coordination and twitch reflexes can do on PA3. You're not playing or trying to recreate football, You're playing with a pinball machine in a stadium.
 
@MafiaMurderBag Couldn't agree more. That's the irony of the modern versions it isn't it? In trying to replicate football as you say they've got further away from a realistic representation of it when they already had the perfect idea - Use the player's individual stats to affect the outcome of their actions and then make adjustments on those base figures by taking into account their body position, are they being challenged, are they off balance, are they on their weaker foot and so on. Get that right and things will look realistic.
 
I'm glad you brought this up. In recent weeks i've been thinking about this every time a penalty comes up in one of my games then i forget to mention it in here. When i was a kid, I used to HATE this penalty system because of the simple reason why i love these games now. It's algorithm based.

Just like the algorithm is infused with the stats of your players to create this juxtaposition of individuality and a sense of unpredictability in open play by using limited technology to it's full potential, Konami understood there was a dilemma "How can we faithfully recreate the drama of penalty kicks in our game, With our limitations?" They applied this genius to the penalty kick system - The user gives the instructions; The player carries out the action. It's a simple formula that crafts that circle of mental challenge, Form and stat influenced game play that works so well.

I used to hate the lack of control i had over my penalty kicks when i was a kid but as an adult i understand what their vision was, It's a game interpreting reality - Now they're games that try to replicate reality & by giving the user too much cognitive control, Ironically it causes a strangely artificial replication of football. It's less about virtual players and recreating their nuances and what their capable of in certain situations and now it's about the human and his skill with the controller overriding that, Breaking the immersion in a way.

Notice how on PS2 PES there's not way you can ping pong the ball from the back line all the way up to attack with first time passes? It's literally impossible, Because the ball physics and context of your players position was correct all along - More realistic than it ever has been. The ball the simply runs out of momentum, It's spin betrays you and it;s just simply very difficult to pass the ball first time in a direction your not facing with out controlling and resetting yourself.

Nowadays the balls physics seem to just reset every time it's "possessed" by a new player, It almost resembles a hockey puck more than a football if anything which is why you see these videos of these guys patting themselves on the back like their some kind of football genius or like they've accomplished something significant that really anyone with could hand eye coordination and twitch reflexes can do on PA3. You're not playing or trying to recreate football, You're playing with a pinball machine in a stadium.

@MafiaMurderBag , if you think about it. Things have a habit of turning full circle.
The tap tap tap one touch passing was something older forum members will remember from ISS Pro in 1997. Really all ISS games, including the series that followed on the PlayStation 2 were all one touch, pass from anywhere, arcade dreamland games. As the ISS series ran parallel to the Pro Evo games and ended in early 2000s, we thought it was dead.

Nope, it was just hibernating.....
 
1) We use real life teams (same teams as you have in the test league - but you can change to another if you wish as long as nobody else already has them) You can pick 12 players over 21 from their real life squad for 2019/20 the remaining 20 will come from your team's youth players from the World Youth OF.

Right, option 1 wins with a resounding 5-1 victroy. So option 1 it is.

Also as long as they are regular first team members any of the 12 you pick from the first team can be under 21 as otherwise we are missing out players aged 18-20.

Ie Diogo Costa at Porto, Dalot at Man Utd and so on

Wildwind will be changing to Man Utd when the real league starts, is everybody else happy to stay with who they are in the Test League? Just let me know if you want to change team
 
Quarter-finals Matchday #2 - Ireland (@miguelfcp) vs. Serbia (@mattmid)

(tune in to the game's broadcast in a bit...)



Perhaps one of the most one-sided matches of the World Youth Cup 2019 so far. Serbia was always the better team on every aspect, though they were having trouble creating clear-cut-chances as Ireland’s numerous and rather combative defensive organization denied were proving to be a tough one to beat. However, Ireland’s brilliance pretty much ended there as they were shockingly poor on the offensive side, never able to build any kind of danger – a hard thing to accomplish when you can’t even build-up play at the back, let alone create a scoring chance…!

Despite Serbia’s obvious and total dominance, the 0-0 prevailed until Ireland’s manager decided to play around and subbed off one of the CBs, McKeown, curiously one that was playing rather well thus far, for a striker (!), in turn changing the formation to a kind of 3-4-3 with a single CB at the back. Well, minutes later Kokir would take advantage of the sudden inexplicable lack of defenders and intelligently scored the match winner. After the match, Ireland’s manager confessed he had had to “take a leak” around the 80th minute (when McKeown was subbed off) and left his assistant manager in charge. When he came back, Ireland’s defensive organization – one that had worked solidly for 80 minutes – had been ruined in just a couple of minutes.

That just goes to show how your world can be turned upside down when you least expect it.

When confronted with Ireland’s manager’s intriguing revelation, Serbia’s manager retorted: “Oh, did he? I’m shocked! I honestly thought he had had his bathroom break before the match, because his decision to play O’Connor as a sweeper was complete and utter crap”.

M.o.M: Kokir. As a late sub-in, Kokir was the protagonist of perhaps the only one moment of pure footballing inspiration of the entire match as he completely fooled Ireland’s sideback Barry before striking a potent shot to eventually score the winning goal. In the land of the blind…

Up: Radmanovac. Perhaps the best RB of this competition? Defensively he was, as usual, very competent and offensively he was – as usual as well – a tireless combative fighter with a tendency to do the entire right lane as if he were a winger.

Down: Markovic. This wasn’t his day, that’s for sure, as both McKeown and O’Connor easily neutralized this otherwise scary threat. On the few occasions he was able to get a shot on goal, those were always way off target.

Down: Ireland’s left side. McEneff was given an improbable starting-11 role near left back O’Sullivan – that dynamic did not work out at all, as they both always seemed out of sync with each other.

Down: Parrott. Ireland’s undisputed superstar was barely seen out there today. McAuley was a bit more active despite also having been uninspired; still, though the latter at least tried, Parrott seemed to accept his inglorious fate.
 
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Ireland are a hell of a tough nut to crack, they get in their tackles, throw bodies in the way and have a top level keeper behind them. Fortunately Kokir came up with a moment of inspiration (lovely first touch!) and an unstoppable shot. I love Radmanovac, he bombs up and down that line and puts a good cross in too usually. I thought Tedic played well and Milosavljevic was excellent again. He won so many headers from Irish clearances and drove forward well from midfield when he got hold of it. Markovic can't seem to hit a clean shot and is heading everything miles over. He works hard though and wins the ball back quite a lot. This team really do play some nice football at times. If they can just put an end product on it...
 
I'm going to start a PES 2013 Master League. Haven't decided which team I'm using yet, probably Newcastle United.

I've got a 15-16 Season Patch installed, it's very good. I've just created 20 Premier League stadiums, took me all day. Yep, I spend my week off from work doing stuff like this, reminds me of the good ol days.

I'll report back with my findings. Top Player or Superstar? I don't remember how difficult PES 2013 is in Master League?
 
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