The Retro-PES Corner

[miguelfcp]

@mattmid:

Spoiler: .

Mihaila, yet another WYC19 hero is born. It looks like Romania's midfield swallowed Denmark whole - and they didn't even had to play Toma alongside Screciu to achieve that! When the manager finally opts to pair them together...Romania will be a tough nut to crack for any team in this competition.

 

[WhoAteMeDinner]

@WhoAteMeDinner: Was about to say that. A good-ol' Slim, built like a tank and always ready to roll, is a must-have. It's the John Wayne of consoles. Quiet, strong, reliable and tolerates no bullshit - cuts to the chase.

@miguelfcp ,
Yup miggy, especially in an era where nobody can trust to the likes of Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo to offer what was once expected backward compatibility on all new consoles and operating systems for PCs.
Windows 10 killed dozens of PC games from the early 2000s, making CD ROMs paid for with hard cash just plastic junk.
It is outrageous to me that games before 2015 on consoles are not playable on the current generation of machines.

Sony CET in Japan are coming under increasing pressure from Japanese gamers to reopen PlayStation 2 new console production and as the last batch of production was back in 2013. Even the sturdy and reliable Slimline late models we both adore will begin to fail at some point.

 

[rockstrongo]

That just proves how after- market PlayStation 2s are so important to Retro-gamers.

Right....@rockstrongo, pal ?

It is mate!
I've gone over to Pes 4/5 on my pc now,holy crap how much fun I'm having ,kits and stadium overdose.

 

[rockstrongo]

Thanks, second roll of the dice, I'm going to take a gamble on the Russian youth. Something about what could be considered a successful World Cup last year by their standards would've surely boosted Russian motivation and confidence in the new generation of young players.

Youth Academies probably got a massive boost in financial backing by their government due to the enticement of officials hoping to recreate this success in the future.

The stance of football being a viable career for young men in Mother Russia is changing and lifting a trophy while representing The Sbornaya is now, something aspirational.

This changing of the guard begins here, In PES 6 & The World Youth Cup 2019!

World Youth Cup 2019 - Manager list

- Portugal - @miguelfcp

- Scotland - @Flipper the Priest

- England - @sniglet

- France - @MafiaMurderBag

- Netherlands - @jihado86

- Italy - @wildwind

- Norway - @mattmid

- Sweden - @Special4988 (temporary back seat driver until internet back on! )

- Russia - @MafiaMurderBag

Still Available: (in playing order)

Spoiler

Bulgaria through to Last 16
Switzerland (Saturday)
Spain (Sunday)
Romania (Monday)
Denmark (Monday)
Ukraine
Serbia
Ireland
Croatia
Brazil
Northern Ireland
China
Italy
Hungary
Austria
Peru
Russia
Germany
Poland
Greece
Belarus
Finland
South Korea
Belgium

So has anyone heard the news about The San Siro? One of footballs most iconic stadiums, is about to be demolished and replaced by another one of those bloody soup bowl, Allianz clones.

It was about a couple of weeks ago we were all hear discussing our distaste at the extermination of cultural stadiums and their recognizable character.

I would say that in a hundred years time there will be a whole generation of kids laughing at how old The Calderon, WHL and The Nou Camp looked in "The history of football" books, but then i remembered books will be eradicated and they'll be scrolling through this information their HUD's impanted into their brains Black Mirror style.

There's been talk on Olimpico too.
Being fond of Roma or Lazio really hurts seeing that one go.
Plus ownership/management at Roma is absolutely shite!
Not keeping DDR,forcing Totti to move on etc.
Wasn't Delle Alpi a short term solution for Juve when that one was built?
I memory serves me right they used to play at Olimpico Torino before that (Torino's stadium)

 

[mattmid]

Match Day 5 Ukraine v Serbia



Ukraine (likely 4-4-2) go into this match as the underdogs. A position they'll be more than happy with particularly with that already meaning little in the early stages of the tournament.

In goal for them could be any of their three keepers. There's not a lot to choose between them, but Karavaschenko's better consistency might just see him get the shirt.

Centre back is something of a problem position for them beyond Aziziov who is no more than average himself. At Full back, the pacy Shushko looks likely to get the nod, not least because he can play either side. He has good acceleration to aid recovery and is fairly dependable whilst not the worst going forward. Agapov is a right back with pace to burn, he will likely be using it though as he completes a defence that might have its work cut out keeping clean sheets.

The two CM berths are likely to be between Yevsikov, Bondarenko and Panchyshyn. Yevsikov is an accomplished passer in the middle of the park and he'll be looking to get Ukraine going forward if he gets the call. Bondarenko is another good passer, every bit as good as Yevsikov. If the manager decides not to pair them he has the option of Panchysyn who is more of a dribbler. The three are much alike otherwise. Out wider in midfield although fairly narrow will probably be Kashchuk and Kozak who are not player's you'd expect to be causing too many problems for Serbia. There are rumours that AM Kholod may start wide instead if he does not play up front.

Up front they do have the necessary fire power to cause problems IF they can create the chances. That is where the problem may lie. The aforementioned Kholod, Ribeiro and Alefirenko all have an eye for goal but none are great at passing so we can probably expect not to see them cutting through the Serbian defence with one-two's.




It would be a surprise if Serbia (4-3-3) did not start with Gordic in goal. Solid, with good responses and very agile he would appear to be the number one. Add to that his affinity for saving penalties and his value increases.

Serbia have options in defence and lots of them. 192cm Erakovic with a leap to match is a colussus in the air and whilst not pacy he isn't slow. Markovic whilst slightly smaller at 185cm is also good in the air. Sehovic a CB or SB is the pick of the bunch so it depends on where he plays on who fills the CB positions. He is more cultured than the other two and what he also offers going forward could see him more likely to be at LB. However that is a bit of a headache for the manager because Belic is a more than capable LB himself. At RB is Radmanovac another solid defender. Backing them all up is Markovic who would probably be first choice for Ukraine if he was from there but could be lucky to start a game in the tournament for Serbia. He won't let anyone down if he does though.

Serbia use two CM's behind an AM in midfield. Ilic and Tedic are as likely to start at CM as anyone, both competent, Tedic slightly better going forward, Ilic slightly better defensively. Ilic has an eye for a pass and will be neat and tidy in midfield. At AM will be the lynchpin for the Serbs. They have a few who can play there but it would be a big surprise if it isn't Djerlek wearing the shirt. He offers a threat with his short and long range passing, his technique is great and he can just as easy set off with the ball at his feet. Add in a bit of pace and a reasonable shot and you have yourself an Attacking midfielder of some quality.

It's hard to look beyond L.Markovic for the number 9 shirt (not least because he has it) but without being a star he has good ability where it counts. He can score with feet or head, has good attacking awareness, his technique is fine and he's got enough pace for it not to be a problem. In short, a jack of all trades, master of none. But he's likely to put something together on any given day. The two wingers will surely be Zivanovic and Jocic. Bovic perhaps slightly the better passer but Zivanovic has the better technique and goal threat.

The bench for Serbia, defence apart, doesn't look to offer an awful lot that they don't already have better on the pitch and if the likely starters are out there it's hard to see who would come on to change the game. This may become a problem as the tournament progresses but for this game, on paper at least, they look too strong for Ukraine.

 

[miguelfcp]

@WhoAteMeDinner: Even if they end up making more PS2s in the future, they won't be anything like the ones we own. I'm guessing they'd surely force you to have an online connection for you to be able to play a game, and it would only read non-physical games. The Slim is truly a relic which modern market forces will not allow for developers to ever reproduce it as faithfully as we'd hope for.

Is that true, regarding backwards compatibility? Goddamn it. If this trend continues, in a few years one will be prohibited to play a game that is not from the current year. BUY NEW GAMES! BUY NEW GAMES!

 

[WhoAteMeDinner]

@WhoAteMeDinner: Even if they end up making more PS2s in the future, they won't be anything like the ones we own. I'm guessing they'd surely force you to have an online connection for you to be able to play a game, and it would only read non-physical games. The Slim is truly a relic which modern market forces will not allow for developers to ever reproduce it as faithfully as we'd hope for.

Is that true, regarding backwards compatibility? Goddamn it. If this trend continues, in a few years one will be prohibited to play a game that is not from the current year. BUY NEW GAMES! BUY NEW GAMES!

@miguelfcp , well miggy, I think it is and does seem to be getting worse year on year. Remember a while ago I was a asking you about the PlayStation Vita and you told me there were no PES titles published for it. Likewise the trend of Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo locked in a corporate battle to the death to gather as many exclusive games for their consoles, effectively imprisoning game developers in a single game platform.

Maybe one small hope, Japanese gamers are notoriously demanding and militant and perhaps a CD ROM drive may be kept in any new PlayStation 2 as there are billions of PlayStation 2 CD games out there....

 

[slamsoze]

@miguelfcp , well miggy, I think it is and does seem to be getting worse year on year. Remember a while ago I was a asking you about the PlayStation Vita and you told me there were no PES titles published for it. Likewise the trend of Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo locked in a corporate battle to the death to gather as many exclusive games for their consoles, effectively imprisoning game developers in a single game platform.

Maybe one small hope, Japanese gamers are notoriously demanding and militant and perhaps a CD ROM drive may be kept in any new PlayStation 2 as there are billions of PlayStation 2 CD games out there....

Regardin PSvita, i recently bought one second-hand and it was one of my most successful purchases in history!!! NOOOOT!!
It seems like SONY sabotaged it, by any possible way.
First of all , it has very very little titles playable. I searched for footies, in order to play at night when travelling in my job and i found only a legit FIfA 15 on psstore and a pes2013 which i do not know if it is legit cause i find only ISOs when i search the net.
The second reason is they withdraw the support and production too early. I was searching for months and the only brand new PSvitas i found, were from wuestionable ebay and amazon sellers and the price was on the top. I barely found a second-hand here in Greece.
The third and possibly most important reason for its failure is that you can't use a typical microSD for memory. You must buy a SONY exclusive one, which costs 99€ for the best capacity card. This is crazy if you think that i gave 150€ for a second-hand which is already a robbery, i would never give the 2/3 of the price for a peripheral hardaware, although without memorycard i can only play remotely to my ps4, which works also terrible without physical shoulder buttons.
I don't know what SONY had in mind and sabotaged their selfs so hard.

 

[Marlon Anthony]

@miguelfcp ,
Yup miggy, especially in an era where nobody can trust to the likes of Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo to offer what was once expected backward compatibility on all new consoles and operating systems for PCs.
Windows 10 killed dozens of PC games from the early 2000s, making CD ROMs paid for with hard cash just plastic junk.
It is outrageous to me that games before 2015 on consoles are not playable on the current generation of machines.

Sony CET in Japan are coming under increasing pressure from Japanese gamers to reopen PlayStation 2 new console production and as the last batch of production was back in 2013. Even the sturdy and reliable Slimline late models we both adore will begin to fail at some point.

Game preservation is a serious concern for many gamers, It's clear not a lot of foresight went into future proofing games. Take this generations trend of releasing remasters as an example. As many developers didn't bother keeping source code and assets for their projects; As they didn't anticipate the demand for remastered games or an increase in resolution fidelity as well as the source assets taking up a lot of storage (Storage was a lot smaller and more expensive, They didn't just go out and buy new storage, they just wiped finished projects and reused storage) they just didn't see the value in keeping work and had to reverse engineer the games or even redraw artwork and assets from scratch for remastered games, Which is why sometimes you end up with something that isn't even faithful to the original art direction like in Shadow of the Colossus or Final Fantasy X.

The other issue is console manufacturers and operating systems developers like windows also think that retro gamers are a drop in the ocean. If they wanted to, they could make their platforms backwards compatible but they just think "Why would people want to play these games, they look old!" as famously uttered by a Sony representative.

It's also getting harder to actually find the software too. Winning Eleven 9:LE for example goes on eBay for around £150-£300. It's next to impossible to find a physical PS2 copy anywhere. fortunately our next hope is ROM & ISO websites that host digital copies of these games which is technically piracy but as they're discounted and very, very few publishers retail few retro titles anymore, They wouldn't get any revenue from purchasing these anyway. I don't even think they get a penny from second hand stores like CeX here in the UK. But also these ROM/ISO are being crippled by cease and desists & shutdown orders.

There is absolutely no way to buy 90% of these classic titles in a way where the original publisher and/or developer makes money off of it. And i'm sure the old programmers who made these games would rather you pirate and keep their legacy alive. This is the way gaming has been gone with unfinished games and tons of micro-transactions and were retro gamers for a reason - To go return to a different era of gaming that held standards.

@WhoAteMeDinner: Even if they end up making more PS2s in the future, they won't be anything like the ones we own. I'm guessing they'd surely force you to have an online connection for you to be able to play a game, and it would only read non-physical games. The Slim is truly a relic which modern market forces will not allow for developers to ever reproduce it as faithfully as we'd hope for.

Is that true, regarding backwards compatibility? Goddamn it. If this trend continues, in a few years one will be prohibited to play a game that is not from the current year. BUY NEW GAMES! BUY NEW GAMES!

This is exactly what i predict. A gimmicked, Holiday edition of the PS2 classic with no physical disk drive, essentially a glorified Pi, with 20 irrelevant built in games and many legendary options that come to mind when you think of the PS2 omitted due to licensing issues. Sounds a lot like the PS1 Classic doesn't it? There's your gaming equivalent of shilling Rolling Stones & Nirvana t-shirts as manufactured fashion trends to for teenagers to wear who couldn't even name you a single song of theirs let alone actually being alive during their most active years.

The ignorance of backwards compatibility from Sony isn't just snobbery though, it's a business decision. If there's demand for it, even if it's small in scale in comparison to 4K games and micro transactions, Why give it away for free when you can repackage it as something different and profit off of it?

They have a service where you can stream PS3 games in nowhere near the original quality they were released in and they re-sell select PS2 games in a digital sarcophagus labelled "PS2 Classics" at nearly £10 a pop. The physical games in your local second hand shop rarely exceed £1 and would hold collectors value too.

 

[mattmid]

I guess it's the same principle really as the likes of PES and FIFA, making a new version every year (which is essentially a large patch a lot of the time). They don't want you to play previous versions which surely also suggests they would be mad to strive to make the 'perfect' game these days as it is not in their interest to. In the past I don't think that thought was there. I was trying to think who started the trend of a yearly version of a game and I might be wrong but surely EA's Madden must have been one of the first to go down that path. Sure sequels and beyond have always been a thing in games, but that strict yearly edition - I can't think of an earlier example off the top of my head (i'm sure there will be though).

It would never happen but if PES and FIFA came to an agreement where they released bi-annual versions, in alternate years to each other, I'm sure both would progress immensely between versions. But it's never going to happen and not in their interests too either.

This all ties in to not making things backwards compatible, after all what's in it for them if you keep playing one of their older games and don't buy a new one? Not enough people do it for it to bother them, there's too many who slag off this years game and then go out and buy the new version and slag that off too without stopping to think why they are doing it other than because they are a sheep, following the crowd. They don't for a moment think - I really enjoy 2012's version of this why don't I keep playing that? Test out the new demo, if I don't like it, if it's not better than this then don't buy it. Simple really isn't it?

So, until more do that the games companies have no need to make anything backwards compatible. After all if you make the 'perfect' game where's your future profit?

 

[slamsoze]

Game preservation is a serious concern for many gamers, It's clear not a lot of foresight went into future proofing games. Take this generations trend of releasing remasters as an example. As many developers didn't bother keeping source code and assets for their projects; As they didn't anticipate the demand for remastered games or an increase in resolution fidelity as well as the source assets taking up a lot of storage (Storage was a lot smaller and more expensive, They didn't just go out and buy new storage, they just wiped finished projects and reused storage) they just didn't see the value in keeping work and had to reverse engineer the games or even redraw artwork and assets from scratch for remastered games, Which is why sometimes you end up with something that isn't even faithful to the original art direction like in Shadow of the Colossus or Final Fantasy X.

The other issue is console manufacturers and operating systems developers like windows also think that retro gamers are a drop in the ocean. If they wanted to, they could make their platforms backwards compatible but they just think "Why would people want to play these games, they look old!" as famously uttered by a Sony representative.

It's also getting harder to actually find the software too. Winning Eleven 9:LE for example goes on eBay for around £150-£300. It's next to impossible to find a physical PS2 copy anywhere. fortunately our next hope is ROM & ISO websites that host digital copies of these games which is technically piracy but as they're discounted and very, very few publishers retail few retro titles anymore, They wouldn't get any revenue from purchasing these anyway. I don't even think they get a penny from second hand stores like CeX here in the UK. But also these ROM/ISO are being crippled by cease and desists & shutdown orders.

There is absolutely no way to buy 90% of these classic titles in a way where the original publisher and/or developer makes money off of it. And i'm sure the old programmers who made these games would rather you pirate and keep their legacy alive. This is the way gaming has been gone with unfinished games and tons of micro-transactions and were retro gamers for a reason - To go return to a different era of gaming that held standards.


This is exactly what i predict. A gimmicked, Holiday edition of the PS2 classic with no physical disk drive, essentially a glorified Pi, with 20 irrelevant built in games and many legendary options that come to mind when you think of the PS2 omitted due to licensing issues. Sounds a lot like the PS1 Classic doesn't it? There's your gaming equivalent of shilling Rolling Stones & Nirvana t-shirts as manufactured fashion trends to for teenagers to wear who couldn't even name you a single song of theirs let alone actually being alive during their most active years.

The ignorance of backwards compatibility from Sony isn't just snobbery though, it's a business decision. If there's demand for it, even if it's small in scale in comparison to 4K games and micro transactions, Why give it away for free when you can repackage it as something different and profit off of it?

They have a service where you can stream PS3 games in nowhere near the original quality they were released in and they re-sell select PS2 games in a digital sarcophagus labelled "PS2 Classics" at nearly £10 a pop. The physical games in your local second hand shop rarely exceed £1 and would hold collectors value too.

Imagine this situation plus being in a small country like here in Greece . At least in Italy/UK/Germany/Portugal the video-games market is morr flexible and organised. Here you usually have to track the individual seller through a forum and contact him un personal.
The biggest problem i have is with sealed, brand new , but old games that are left as stock. As i like to buy old staff from collectors perspective, there are times that my mind tends to explode.And as i travel to many places due to work, in many cities i meet the same situation.
Last winter, I found a sealed PES2017 for PC in a dept. store, it was a greek collectable version, so i wanted to buy it, although i have both a ps4 and a pc digital versions. The price was 49,99€ while in the next shelf he had a PES 2018 new special edit for only 19,99€. I explained the clerk, that this was false strategy and nobody would buy an older PES double the price of a new one, but he ignored me. So i resisted and didn't buy it, no matter how hard i wanted it. The previous month i was un my wife's hometown and while visiting a store i found a sealed PES 2014 PC Champions League special edition. I wanted it so hard, checked the price; it was 42€ hand overwritten by pen. I asked about the price, they checked in their PC and they told me it is correct. In tge meantime pes2019 is sold in the same store for half the price. Also un my hometown last summer i found in an internet-café, a sealed PS4 with a PES2015 bundle. Although i own a ps4pro i would buy it for sure in a reasonable price. It was a dusty box, almost the owner of the shop must have forgotten that he had it still. I asked the price and that MoFo wanted to sell it to me to its initial price. Even more than a ps4 costs today!!! It really makes me crazy cause all these collectible chances will stay to dust in stores and possibly they will return them to distributors as unsold stock or worse they will throw them to garbage.I dont think that any marketer supplier will pay a refund interest to a shop owner for an unsold pes2014 mow in 2019.

The only successful deal i had, was with a neighbour-shop, in a small island in east Aegean, that sold mainly action-figures and models, toys and had some video games for ages . He was selling-out cause he was retiring and i was going to his shop every day to make some deals, which he denied stubborn from 2012 to 2014 . I only achieved to buy a sealed Mario Kart DS for NDS at 20€, while it was more than 5 years in his shop-window. The box colours were faded away completely from the sun. For each other game he was selling at cost price, which was absurd . Finally on January 2015 the last week before he closed the shop, i achieved a "decent" deal with this stubborn old man, he sold me sealed new-old games for 5€ per copy, some worth it others not but i wanted them so bad. I took for PC : Rome Total War gold edition , Starcraft+Broodwar, Warcraft II, Warcraft III, Nba Live 2008, FIFA 2010, PES 2008 and PES 2010. It was big summary if money, but worth it. He initially asked 10 per copy which put the deal in danger, but i would sucumb at last, especially for the PES 08 & 10 pc versions, cause i gave away my copies to friends, while i was disappointed back in the days 2008-2010.
Now i must by back only a PES 2009 pc ver. To recomplete my collection. Just got the lesson that even the worst does not deserve to be sold or thrown, cause it is extremely difficult to find it in a reasonable price, some years after.

 

[Madmac79]

@slamsoze woha man!! Well done with the deal. So envious for Warcraft 2 ! I've been searching one in my own language (loved the voice-overs, one of my first and best memories as a young gamer) for a lifetime but without any luck.

 

[slamsoze]

@slamsoze woha man!! Well done with the deal. So envious for Warcraft 2 ! I've been searching one in my own language (loved the voice-overs, one of my first and best memories as a young gamer) for a lifetime but without any luck.

Yeah. It was a "battle.net" special edition, officially releashed in January of 2005. Of course battle.net shite didn't work 10 years after, but who cares!! Campaign is all the way to go!!!
You should see my wife's face when i went home hugging the games. Her words were like "Wtf are all these old games you paid money for"!!!
She is in a primitive logic like "why you buy PES 2010 when you have PES 2015" or "why Warcraft II when you have Warcraft III". Totally noob!!!!

 

[slamsoze]

@Madmac79 wanted to take some photos from the games to show you, but i am solo with my 21months son now, who is a little bit more dangerous than Galactus the planet-eater, so thats the best i could take. My son is also the reason i have the CD-DVD stocked in a pile and not in a shelf as i used to. This is what survived from his menacing-wraths. You can see Warcraft in the bottom below Rome, i tried to put it out but i can't now. I wiil do in tge future a special photo shoot, especially for the sports games.

 

[slamsoze]

I guess it's the same principle really as the likes of PES and FIFA, making a new version every year (which is essentially a large patch a lot of the time). They don't want you to play previous versions which surely also suggests they would be mad to strive to make the 'perfect' game these days as it is not in their interest to. In the past I don't think that thought was there. I was trying to think who started the trend of a yearly version of a game and I might be wrong but surely EA's Madden must have been one of the first to go down that path. Sure sequels and beyond have always been a thing in games, but that strict yearly edition - I can't think of an earlier example off the top of my head (i'm sure there will be though).

It would never happen but if PES and FIFA came to an agreement where they released bi-annual versions, in alternate years to each other, I'm sure both would progress immensely between versions. But it's never going to happen and not in their interests too either.

This all ties in to not making things backwards compatible, after all what's in it for them if you keep playing one of their older games and don't buy a new one? Not enough people do it for it to bother them, there's too many who slag off this years game and then go out and buy the new version and slag that off too without stopping to think why they are doing it other than because they are a sheep, following the crowd. They don't for a moment think - I really enjoy 2012's version of this why don't I keep playing that? Test out the new demo, if I don't like it, if it's not better than this then don't buy it. Simple really isn't it?

So, until more do that the games companies have no need to make anything backwards compatible. After all if you make the 'perfect' game where's your future profit?

For me it is clear that KONAMI took an extra-aggressive route, since 2018, the same year they based their strategy completely on myClub. Don't know what made them so greed that year but it is very bad.., cause while they couldn't threat EA sports they decided to attack their own fans by two moves.
1) Until 2018 , every digital copy from previous years were on Steam/PSstore. From 18 onwards they suddenly decided to take down every previous version, living only 18 available for purchase. This moved hurted only people like us who play older games besides with new. I.E.: although i have pes15-16 physical PC copy, i would be glad to buy ps4 digital versions, which became impossible after this move.When 19 came out, same story with 18, got remived from PSstore&Steam.
2) Again until 18 , the online servers were every year online for 3 seasons, for example pes2013 severs stopped the summer of 2015. This was a lifespan of 3 games pes-2013-14-15. From last yearand on they made it, so servers go down one season and half after launch , IE.: pes17 servers closed on May of 2018 and 2018's this May of 2019 . Being aggressive marketing towards even the people who play online.
They have clearly the strategy to force everyone to new games, while in the same time they cut our paths to the past versions . Not even EA did such an attacking move. FiFAs until 2015 are still available in digital stores and i think they didn't even shut down their servers, if i am not wrong you can buy fifa15 today and play online.

 

[WhoAteMeDinner]

@slamsoze , all your stories of overpriced games remind me of what I call "funnel economics", tiny peripheral countries like Ireland and Greece are at the narrow end of a global supply chain funnel, so if somethng is shipped from Germany onto Greece, a big price increase is added on.
Here in Ireland, goods sent from the UK usually have a hefty third more added to every price, vastly more than the exchange rate.

 

[slamsoze]

@slamsoze , all your stories of overpriced games remind me of what I call "funnel economics", tiny peripheral countries like Ireland and Greece are at the narrow end of a global supply chain funnel, so if somethng is shipped from Germany onto Greece, a big price increase is added on.
Here in Ireland, goods sent from the UK usually have a hefty third more added to every price, vastly more than the exchange rate.

Yeah dude i know and i agree for the "active" years of a product, cause we are small country, imports cost more etc,etc. But when we have a PES game from 2014 now in 2019 i don't believe the same strategy works, cause it is 5 years gone. If the marketer had an insurance pay-off term for the products that would end as stock, i think it should apply for the first 1-2 years, especially for an annual title. Now in 2019 none will pay his damage for an non-sold PES 2014, the most possible is it will end in a DVD crematorium at best.
I don't kniw if i express it right in English. If i would have a pes2014 for sale, the first years i would try to make profit. Second year i would try to sell to cover the cost. The third year i would consider it as a totall loss with zero profit and any amount from 5-10€ would be comsidered as damage control of loss.
And being annual is special occasion cause in the same time you ask 50€ for an old common version , you sell the newest one 2019 in half-price .
Of course it is different to sell for example a PES 2013 today in comparison to a GTA V.

 

[WhoAteMeDinner]

Yeah dude i know and i agree for the "active" years of a product, cause we are small country, imports cost more etc,etc. But when we have a PES game from 2014 now in 2019 i don't believe the same strategy works, cause it is 5 years gone. If the marketer had an insurance pay-off term for the products that would end as stock, i think it should apply for the first 1-2 years, especially for an annual title. Now in 2019 none will pay his damage for an non-sold PES 2014, the most possible is it will end in a DVD crematorium at best.
I don't kniw if i express it right in English. If i would have a pes2014 for sale, the first years i would try to make profit. Second year i would try to sell to cover the cost. The third year i would consider it as a totall loss with zero profit and any amount from 5-10€ would be comsidered as damage control of loss.
And being annual is special occasion cause in the same time you ask 50€ for an old common version , you sell the newest one 2019 in half-price .
Of course it is different to sell for example a PES 2013 today in comparison to a GTA V.

You are explaining it perfectly @slamsoze , mate. Most games are seriously discounted after two years except for exceptional games. A GTA or a Final Fantasy game from fifteen or twenty years back is gold dust now.

 

[miguelfcp]

Matchday #5 - Ukraine vs Serbia

Some matches you wish they'd never end.

This was one of those.

Few expect a Ukraine-Serbia matchup to be one of the most exciting and well-played matches of any kind of competition, these kids outdid themselves tonight.

Right away it was obvious that both of these teams had arrived on the stadium with one objective - to secure a place in the upcoming Round of 16 as early on as possible. Both seemed eager to get that first goal that would put them in the driver's seat, usually exploring the opponent's wings to create some danger in the form of crosses, mostly.

Six minutes in and bad news for Ukraine, as Agapov the rigthback is injured and comes off for Shushko. The latter would end up being one of the most active Ukrainian players throughout the whole match, but this was a sign of things to come, as not five minutes later after that injury, Serbia is able to score the first goal. That was also the first shooting attempt of the match for any of these nations; but when you have a striker like Markovic up front, anything is possible.

Still, Ukraine kept going. They surely lack the art and the technique to match Serbia's superior talent on all fronts, that's undeniable, yet they managed to put some pressure on the opposition's defense, mainly through the solo attacking runs of Shushko down the right lane and the one-man-show presented by striker Kholod, who strangely enough completely overshadowed L. Ribeiro and took the reigns of Ukraine's offense. That wasn't enough to create some actual, palpable danger as Serbia's defense didn't even have to break a sweat to maintain a clean sheet early on.

Bit by bit, after a frenetic fifteen/twenty minutes of endless end-to-end fun, Serbia's midfield starts asserting itself in this match, as the likes of Milosavljevic and Jocic completely take control of the game - as expected beforehand, surely. If when defending they are reckless and give no space to the likes of Panchyshyn on the other side - often committing fouls to prevent Ukraine from putting together a counterattacking play -; offensively, they accurately build-up play and simultaneously join the offense later on. Such a beautiful dynamic was a joy to watch; at times, it looked as if Serbia had five instead of only two centre-midfielders, such was this duo's dominance.

Ukraine couldn't get a break. Though they were often getting close to Serbia's box on offense, they still hadn't had a single shooting attempt. After a couple of unsuccessful shots by the Serbian side, they do score the 0-2. Tedic is an attacking midfielder but here he was, appearing in the box for a header in a zone typically occupied by the striker: this was a constant scenario during the whole game, as Serbia put often 3-4 players in the box waiting for a cross every time, and wasn't shy on letting pretty much everyone besides the two centrebacks attack the space and join the offensive process. Strength in numbers and superior talent is a combination that was proving to be too much for a (albeit competent) Ukrainian side.

After the goal, Serbia diminished their electric intensity and just relied on their trademark uber-pressing strategy when without the ball (at times there were four players surrounding Ukrainian's defense when the latter had ball possession...not that far away from their own keeper!). This allowed for Ukraine to gather the strength to come up with a couple of shooting attempts, even if those were utterly forgettable and provided no danger for Gordic the keeper, who at this point was just enjoying the show whilst reading a magazine and drinking margaritas. That's fine mate, enjoy it while it lasts, for right when the ref was going to blow his whistle and send everyone to their locker rooms, Kholod proves himself to be a force to be reckoned with. Serbia seemed to have the match under complete control and the second half was surely going to be a walk in the park as a consequence, but Kholod had other plans and at halftime, only one goal separated both teams.



Yes, Ukraine could and should still dream about that equalizer. What's your take on it, Serbia? They laughed. Milosavljevic and Jocic just kept enforcing their superiority down the middle, and the dynamics were as cool as ever. Serbia is turning out to be one of the most interesting teams to watch in this competition; their brand of fast-paced one-twos-based football, played by technically endowed individuals is one that every football enthusiast must love to watch. As Ukraine lost both their energy and hope, suddenly, even those two CMFs were able to have a few shots on goal, and Milosavljevic even got a one-on-one situation with the opponent's keeper not five minutes after the second half had started, though he wasted it alright.

From the 60th minute until the very last one, Ukraine had one shot (didn't even tickle the keeper, to be honest...) while Serbia had...eight. Manager Valery Komoplyanka tried everything he could to provide his Ukrainian team with an improved attacking presence but this was clearly too much for them to handle. Serbia's the far better team here and deserved to go through to the next round. Thanks to Trubin the goalkeeeper, Serbia couldn't score anyway, and the match would end 1-2.

In the end, I'm disappointed. Sometimes, 90 minutes is not enough time to witness such a great team like this Serbian side. Adapting the words once uttered by a very wise man, I'd buy this Serbian team only to watch them play in my backyard.

Men of the Match: Yes, "Men of the Match": Mirolavljevic and Jocic. Together, they had twelve (12!) interceptions, had a good portion of Serbia's ball possession and overall dominated the entire match in a dramatically obvious way.

Take a look at Jocic's heat map:

This is not a man, this is an engine.

Up: L. Markovic. He was there when the team needed him the most, and was always Serbia's most feared offensive weapon (as expected).

Up: Panchyshyn. Though he took a while to heat up, once he got it together, Panchyshyn was Ukraine's leader out there: on offense he took care of build-up the play from the back; defensively, we did what he could to help contain the opponent's midfield - a brave effort, if inglorious.

Up: Kholod. What a goal he scored. That was the cherry on top of an overall solid exhibition; Kholod wasn't always successful in his attacking ventures - far from that - but he did put his heart out there at all times.

Down: L. Ribeiro. What, Kholod had an attacking partner? I kept shouting "Ribeiro! Ribeiro! Where are you Ribeiro?!" during the whole match, hoping the team's bus driver heard it and went to the team's hotel to pick him up and bring him to the stadium. He never did.

Highlights

 

[slamsoze]

You are explaining it perfectly @slamsoze , mate. Most games are seriously discounted after two years except for exceptional games. A GTA or a Final Fantasy game from fifteen or twenty years back is gold dust now.

We live in a west capitalist free market era unfortunately. And you know this stategy of companies duscussed above, hurts more the old-sealed versions on stock than the second hand sales. Black market monstrosities are created, like finding an over-priced PES6 or WE9LE sealed-copy. The biggest case i know , is the MarvelVSCapcom 2 case, where the physical copies of ps2 & xbox were limited due some stupid licence and now you can find a MvsC 2 ps2 physical copy sold for 200$ or 300$ one-shop platforms. While the Dreamcast version, which is far superior is much much cheaper

 

[WhoAteMeDinner]

Comrade Slamsozness, all things change, nothing lasts forever, not even the greedy and dead hand of global free market capitalism.

The Dinner knows this little tune by heart:

Stand up damned of the Earth.
Stand up prisoners of Starvation.
Reason thunders in it's volcano.
This is the eruption of the end.
Of the past, let us make a clean slate.
Enslaved masses, stand up, stand up.....



(No hammer and sickle or AK 47 smileys sadly).

 

[WhoAteMeDinner]

And look on the bright side my friend. We are Irish and Greek, we at least are not paying the home decoration bills of a couple called the: "Duke and Duchess of Sussex".

Sounds more like the name of a pub to me, but this couple just spent 2.4 million STERLING on doing up a gaff, (two weeks pay for Paul Pogba) seriously dosh .

And poor @mattmid , @MafiaMurderBag and our other British comrades are on the hook for the bill.

Feudalism ehhhh....where is me coat.....

 

[cosmo]

Rome Total War

A masterpiece and my fav. strat. game, released in the last days of the golden age of pc gaming, lets say late 90s to mid first mill. decade, with the 360/ps3 gen. it slowly all went down the shitters imho.

 

[WhoAteMeDinner]

Last gasp of creativity and epic scale in the RTS golden age was probably Sins of a Solar Empire in 2008.

But @cosmo , you are right, the mid-2000s and the console generation change seemed to send all gaming down the smelly brown drain.

 

[mattmid]

@miguelfcp

Serbia with the performance of the tournament so far then. What can their fellow ex Yugolsavians Croatia do against Dinner's Ireland tomorrow I wonder?

 

[rockstrongo]

We live in a west capitalist free market era unfortunately. And you know this stategy of companies duscussed above, hurts more the old-sealed versions on stock than the second hand sales. Black market monstrosities are created, like finding an over-priced PES6 or WE9LE sealed-copy. The biggest case i know , is the MarvelVSCapcom 2 case, where the physical copies of ps2 & xbox were limited due some stupid licence and now you can find a MvsC 2 ps2 physical copy sold for 200$ or 300$ one-shop platforms. While the Dreamcast version, which is far superior is much much cheaper

Haven't bought RDR 2 yet,simply because a digital copy is still 65€ ish.
I remember GTA 5 was still very expensive only 6 months ago.
Speaking of Dreamcast ,I had one rather quickly ,can't remember if it was before I bought a PS2 or not.
Still believe (not Pes and fifa) Xbox I s very good at retrogames ,old 360 or of Xbox are being back comp.
I'm playing my very first Dreamcast game on my X right now,Shenmue

 

[WhoAteMeDinner]

@miguelfcp

Serbia with the performance of the tournament so far then. What can their fellow ex Yugolsavians Croatia do against Dinner's Ireland tomorrow I wonder?

Good lads Matters and Miggy, still doing the football manager thing. What I love about this thread (really an entire world of it's own), is that we can all discuss our special themes and interests in the football world. The write ups of the COM v COM games are brilliant.
Just the Dinner does not do point and click gaming of any kind.

 

[WhoAteMeDinner]

Haven't bought RDR 2 yet,simply because a digital copy is still 65€ ish.
I remember GTA 5 was still very expensive only 6 months ago.
Speaking of Dreamcast ,I had one rather quickly ,can't remember if it was before I bought a PS2 or not.
Still believe (not Pes and fifa) Xbox I s very good at retrogames ,old 360 or of Xbox are being back comp.
I'm playing my very first Dreamcast game on my X right now,Shenmue

@rockstrongo , the business model looks quite brazen really. Make games like Final Fantasy from twenty years or more ago unplayble and unbuyable in today's gaming "free" market.

Then start selling Final Fantasy smartphone game versions for twelve to sixteen euro on Google and Apple stores. No doubt a totally tiny and shiiite version of all the GTAs will appear on phones soon for big money.

Capitalism, make suckers pay twice for the same product and make the second one totally gutted and awful.

Gotta love the "free" market ehhh.....

 

[cosmo]

Sins of a Solar Empire

...the mid-2000s and the console generation change seemed to send all gaming down the smelly brown drain.

The game title itself is a masterpiece, now I want to make me some more coff. and to ponder about life and things, really inspiring.

The titles and covers tell everything, it started to be generic, for example since CoD Modern Warfare that "hero" type figure big in focus for shooter games etc

 

[rockstrongo]

@rockstrongo , the business model looks quite brazen really. Make games like Final Fantasy from twenty years or more ago unplayble and unbuyable in today's gaming "free" market.

Then start selling Final Fantasy smartphone game versions for twelve to sixteen euro on Google and Apple stores. No doubt a totally tiny and shiiite version of all the GTAs will appear on phones soon for big money.

Capitalism, make suckers pay twice for the same product and make the second one totally gutted and awful.

Gotta love the "free" market ehhh.....

Capitalism can go fuck itself.
Where I live we have private schools ,for kids between 6-18,all those schools are owned by very shifty dudes/companies,none of the profit goes back to the kids but to offshore accounts etc,plus they get funds from the state/government to,same shit with assisted elderly living.
That school system,yup were the only ones with it (Sweden)
Such a ruthless system,both for gaming and all other areas.
People need to realise we need a sustainable system instead,don't need to be a hardcore DDR commie to get that