The Retro-PES Corner

The 2022 World Cup qualifiers are already underway, and little Guam or Bhutan sure have a long journey ahead of them:

Results:

Bhutan 1 - 0 Guam 1st Leg
Guam 5 - 0 Bhutan 2nd Leg

Guam progress to the next qualifying phase with a 5 - 1 aggregate win.
The Dinner loves these little countries players and supporters, the players are mostly amateurs and the supporters are all heart and passion, no corporate corruption or greed to be found.

Sad to say, it is perhaps better for these little nations never to be tainted or soiled by getting to the now ruined World Cup Finals, where money is the only winner.
 
@WhoAteMeDinner I hadn't been for a while then @miguelfcp mentioned them after he'd been watching some and well, the evidence is there. :LOL: It's surprisingly addictive. I keep thinking about doing an ML managing only. Although whether it would be good for the health to watch the early season defaults I don't know. Mind, it would be good for a change to moan at Castolo for missing with the satisfaction that it wasn't you who'd caused him to hit yet another shot into the crowd. :D

And @miguelfcp will have more on this subject soon and hopefully you might release the inner Mick McCarthy in you.
 
mattmid said:
@WhoAteMeDinner I hadn't been for a while then @miguelfcp mentioned them after he'd been watching some and well, the evidence is there. :LOL: It's surprisingly addictive. I keep thinking about doing an ML managing only. Although whether it would be good for the health to watch the early season defaults I don't know. Mind, it would be good for a change to moan at Castolo for missing with the satisfaction that it wasn't you who'd caused him to hit yet another shot into the crowd. :D

And @miguelfcp will have more on this subject soon and hopefully you might release the inner Mick McCarthy in you.
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@mattmid , the Dinner may need to make an intervention if this watching from the sidelines addiction worsens.

And though I agree everyone needs to release their inner Big Mick McCarthy, our cheerful and beloved coach. Perhaps miggy would be channelling his inner Paulo Sousa.

Oh and the Dinner is off on one tonight, some moron on Talksport just compared Frank Lampard to Der Kaiser......

:NONO::NONO::NONO:
 
@WhoAteMeDinner: When it comes to "spirit animals" in the form of football managers, mine is undoubtedly Quinito. He's a Portuguese legend not so much for his coaching abilities - not at all, frankly...- but particularly for his persona. He singlehandedly created the Portuguese footballing jargon, and did it in style.


Here's Carlos Carvalhal stealing one of Quinito's trademark lines - Carvalhal even mentions him (starts at around 0:40). "Pôr a carne toda no assador", which he translated literally to "putting all the meat in the barbecue".

Quinito once showed up to a Portuguese Cup final wearing a white tuxedo - can't find a bigger image, sorry.
quinito_la%C3%A7o.jpg


What a guy.
 
@miguelfcp , he looks like a proper coach. Nice black bowtie to offset the white splendour. Zdenek Zeman is another philosopher / football coach who always had brilliant turns of phrase.

They broke the mould when they made these men.....

:WORSHIP::WORSHIP::WORSHIP:
 
And Miggy, Quinito, full name: Joaquim Lucas Duro de Jesus. I am guessing with such a modestly short name by Portuguese standards that he is a man of the people. Aristocratic or lower nobility types have about eight names I believe. ?

No wonder the Brazilian players just call themselves "Jo" or "Fred".

:THINK::THINK::THINK:
 
@WhoAteMeDinner: It's indeed a short name, and a rather appropriate one: "Duro" means "hard" or "tough". As you say, he really was a man of the people and you could tell it by the way he spoke and how he spoke.

Once he was asked about a player who ended up becoming one of the most interesting of its generation: Pedro Barbosa. He was the typical classy midfielder who runs the show effortlessly, another Minanda. Quinito said this about him: "I'd buy him just so I could watch him play in my backyard".
 
@mattmid: Everyone has a bit of Quinito running in their blood :LMAO:
I'm sorry to hijack the thread with Quinito but this guy is the gift that keeps on giving.
Back when he was Braga's manager they played a Cup Winners' Cup round vs. Tottenham - which had the likes of Ardiles, Glenn Hoddle...they lost 0-3 at home and then 0-6 away.
After the match, as he entered the team bus he saw all the players visibly concerned with the proper beating they just had gotten. 'What's wrong, everyone's so quiet!" Legend says that at that moment, Glenn Hoddle was leaving the stadium with his girlfriend. Quinito pointed at him and said: "look at him: tall, blond, dashing girl, and a nice car. Look at you all: short, bearded, horrible girlfriends and poor cars...and you wanted to win against these guys? So we lost 0-6, that's great! Bus driver, put on some music!"
 
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@miguelfcp , this is precisely the right thread for nostalgia about a proper football man. All things retro, that is us.

My only question is apart from Benfica and Sporting Lisbon, Quinito seems to have managed every other top flight club in the Primeira Liga, including Porto.

Was he a touch volatile as a coach ?
 
@WhoAteMeDinner: Tell me about it, if it wasn't for the Corner, where else would one be able to post these nuggets?

He showed potential early on, hence Porto giving him the manager job not too long after our first-ever European Cup win. However, he totally failed with a stacked team like we had back then and it ended up completely ruining his prospect of ever managing at that high of a level ever again. He's the type of manager who excels in a mid/low-level, but won't ever be anything more than that.

Also, he was a type that was already at the time going extinct: nowadays, managers are a kind of "football scientists", perfectionists who take football way too serious - probably because it's a very expensive industry these days. Quinito was the complete opposite of that. He believed in enjoying football for the beautiful game that it is. I can't remember the exact quote, but I once heard he addressed his players more or less like this: "guys, tonight I just want to sit in my bench, smoke my cigarette and have multiple orgasms watching you guys play football, ok?". Compare this with the modern managers' tactical/strategical obssessions...
 
@miguelfcp , yep, there used to be more to life than labour, drudgery and toil. Modern football management is all Pro-Zone and nandrolone I suspect.

Love for the game, spontaneity, off the cuff play is a thing of the past.

I used to really admire Marcelo Bielsa until it was recently revealed that he and his staff approach the beautiful game like a forensic accountancy audit.

Just a final note, next tournament the Dinner will watch is Euro 2024 in Germany. Football is offside until then.

:COAT::COAT::COAT:
 
They do seem to excel in over complicating the game these days. I think I mentioned it here already but I'll do so again. The best 'live' game I've watched in years was a couple of weeks before the end of the season against Peterborough. A must win game for both teams and it was played in that manner, both teams going hammer and tong at each other for goals. An absolute joy to watch even though we ended up losing it.

Most manager's these days are so afraid to lose because they are given absolutely no time to build a team. This leads them to play ultra cautiously and play not to lose, rather than to win. It was a breath of fresh air to see Crystal Palace and Leicester win against Man City last season by actually taking them on rather than camping in their own box only to delay the inevitable defeat.
 
WhoAteMeDinner said:
Possibly a hundred ML seasons in PES 3, miggy, and only managed goals like that maybe once every few seasons.

As flipper said well, only the lightest touch on the shoot button will produce that, only with perfect timing though.
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For reference it was on four star difficulty so maybe increased the likelihood of going in. I'm working my way through the gears playing random International Cups in between my option file editing.

I like how it was scored by a bit of a no mark player. Only in because main man Mehdi Mahdavikia was 'on a grey' and he on red. Classic PES 'story'.

miguelfcp said:
@WhoAteMeDinner: When it comes to "spirit animals" in the form of football managers, mine is undoubtedly Quinito. He's a Portuguese legend not so much for his coaching abilities - not at all, frankly...- but particularly for his persona. He singlehandedly created the Portuguese footballing jargon, and did it in style.


Here's Carlos Carvalhal stealing one of Quinito's trademark lines - Carvalhal even mentions him (starts at around 0:40). "Pôr a carne toda no assador", which he translated literally to "putting all the meat in the barbecue".

Quinito once showed up to a Portuguese Cup final wearing a white tuxedo - can't find a bigger image, sorry.
quinito_la%C3%A7o.jpg


What a guy.
Click to expand...

Was it this lad who gave Pedro 'best Rangers manager in their seven year history' Caixinha his "the dogs bark and the caravan keeps going" bit? That stumped Scottish football.

Old Dons gaffer Ebbe Skovdahl had a way with words and the game in general, similar to Quinito. "The operation went well but the patient died", "statistics are like miniskirts - they look nice but hide all the important parts", chain smoking, chucking on two extra strikers for the hell of it. Bloody good fun. And shite, unfortunately.
 
Flipper the Priest said:
For reference it was on four star difficulty so maybe increased the likelihood of going in. I'm working my way through the gears playing random International Cups in between my option file editing.

I like how it was scored by a bit of a no mark player. Only in because main man Mehdi Mahdavikia was 'on a grey' and he on red. Classic PES 'story'.



Was it this lad who gave Pedro 'best Rangers manager in their seven year history' Caixinha his "the dogs bark and the caravan keeps going" bit? That stumped Scottish football.

Old Dons gaffer Ebbe Skovdahl had a way with words and the game in general, similar to Quinito. "The operation went well but the patient died", "statistics are like miniskirts - they look nice but hide all the important parts", chain smoking, chucking on two extra strikers for the hell of it. Bloody good fun. And shite, unfortunately.
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@Flipper the Priest , do not be so hard on yourself pal.That strike would have hit the back of the net at five or six star difficulty (PES 4 and 5 had that oddly).
 
Flipper the Priest said:
For reference it was on four star difficulty so maybe increased the likelihood of going in. I'm working my way through the gears playing random International Cups in between my option file editing.

I like how it was scored by a bit of a no mark player. Only in because main man Mehdi Mahdavikia was 'on a grey' and he on red. Classic PES 'story'.



Was it this lad who gave Pedro 'best Rangers manager in their seven year history' Caixinha his "the dogs bark and the caravan keeps going" bit? That stumped Scottish football.

Old Dons gaffer Ebbe Skovdahl had a way with words and the game in general, similar to Quinito. "The operation went well but the patient died", "statistics are like miniskirts - they look nice but hide all the important parts", chain smoking, chucking on two extra strikers for the hell of it. Bloody good fun. And shite, unfortunately.
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That is actually starkly true about surgical operations. Surgeons have gallows humour on steroids. Any nervous patients would run if they heard them.

All top managers used to chain smoke, like Zdenek Zeman. He was like the Czech Marlboro Man on the touchline.

Modern managers don't even wear leather shoes, the world is fuc'd.

Talksport talk some bollox......

:CURSE::CURSE::CURSE:
 
@WhoAteMeDinner I suppose they've been going on about Lampard all day have they? I've nothing against him but what other first time manager who'd done one season and achieved pretty much what the club had achieved in the last 5 seasons and wasn't deemed good enough seemingly as those manager's have been dispensed with, would then step into a top 6 job? Not a chance in hell. Which is not to say he won't do well there, but more that why don't they apply the same principle to other managers?

For example, why aren't Chelsea after Chris Wilder? Has anybody got a better record than him in the last 3-4 years? Won Lge 2 with Northampton, Won Lge 1 with Sheffield Utd after they'd been stuck in the league for years, 10th in the Championship, then promotion to the Premier.
 
@mattmid , Yep mate, it is Frank Lampard Radio all week on Talksport.
(And just to repeat I am only forced to listen as the BBC radio is totally GEOBLOCKED here in Ireland during big international tournaments).
The Dinner has not turned into a reactionary, obnoxious, middle-aged man, yet.
:BLINK::BLINK::BLINK:
 
miguelfcp said:
@WhoAteMeDinner: When it comes to "spirit animals" in the form of football managers, mine is undoubtedly Quinito. He's a Portuguese legend not so much for his coaching abilities - not at all, frankly...- but particularly for his persona. He singlehandedly created the Portuguese footballing jargon, and did it in style.


Here's Carlos Carvalhal stealing one of Quinito's trademark lines - Carvalhal even mentions him (starts at around 0:40). "Pôr a carne toda no assador", which he translated literally to "putting all the meat in the barbecue".

Quinito once showed up to a Portuguese Cup final wearing a white tuxedo - can't find a bigger image, sorry.
quinito_la%C3%A7o.jpg


What a guy.
Click to expand...

Hang on Miggy, is the Braga assistant coach wearing a fetching beige suit and white socks ? Fashion contest circa 1985. Marvellouus.

Also, when did football teams and coaches become too good for camp stools ?

Race car leather seating. :NONO::NONO::NONO:
 
mattmid said:
@WhoAteMeDinner I suppose they've been going on about Lampard all day have they? I've nothing against him but what other first time manager who'd done one season and achieved pretty much what the club had achieved in the last 5 seasons and wasn't deemed good enough seemingly as those manager's have been dispensed with, would then step into a top 6 job? Not a chance in hell. Which is not to say he won't do well there, but more that why don't they apply the same principle to other managers?

For example, why aren't Chelsea after Chris Wilder? Has anybody got a better record than him in the last 3-4 years? Won Lge 2 with Northampton, Won Lge 1 with Sheffield Utd after they'd been stuck in the league for years, 10th in the Championship, then promotion to the Premier.
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It's simply because it's Frank Lampard coming home i think has a lot to do with it. It sounds obvious but i think it's the pomp of the homecoming which kind of clouds rationale here.

Yes a sensible verdict would be lets go after someone with more credentials as it's not only a demanding role, it's a demanding club. Maybe he'll prove us wrong and sometimes it's great for the squads morale to bring in a respected figure like the Solskjaer appointment did for a while.

But if history has taught us anything, It's that great players don't always make great managers. Case in point, Shearer coaching Newcastle & Dalglish coaching Liverpool. It's romantic but romance doesn't get you results.
 
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