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The neverending case - AIMING

Discussion in 'Winning Eleven' started by Mauras, 28 July 2005.

  1. Mauras

    Mauras Premiership

    7 October 2002
    Not proud about it but also not shy to admit it: I'm a lousy finisher, ever since I play WE/PES, over 10 years now.

    In the PSX versions I missed less, I tended to dominate a bit better the shot aiming sytem. Ever since the PS2 arrived it became worse. I build a lot of play, usually I dominate the game but I miss, and miss, and miss...

    I remember a lot of discussion about aiming has taken place. I'll try to ilustrate the various theories and ask you to comment on it and state your views on it, hoping that this will become a quind of FAQ on aiming that helps everybody having the same trouble as me: why in the hell the shot sometimes goes to a place I never intended it too?.

    PLAY SITUATION:
    ATTACKING FROM LEFT TO RIGHT -->


    1st THEORY - THE "DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU ARE" THEORY

    This is the usual theory on shooting and I must say this was the aiming logic in PSX versions.
    If you are attacking from left to right you'll face the opposing goal on the right side of the screen. Once you reached it you press shoot and... (now come the examples of this aiming theory).

    a) press right/down for a shot on the right side of the goal (from the striker's point of view)
    b) press right/op for a shot on the left side of the goal (idem)
    c) press right for a straight shot.
    d) press back/down for a ??? shot on the right side of the goal (idem)
    e) press back/up for a ??? shot on the left side of the goal (idem)
    f) press back for a ??? straight shot on goal (idem)


    2nd THEORY - "THE ALWAYS FACING FRONT" THEORY

    This is not my shooting theory but the truth is sometimes momentum almost proves it happens. In this theory after you press shooting you should think as you were facing the goal ahead of you, as if the tv screen was the goal itself. Some examples (very similar to the penalty taker aiming logic)

    a) press up for a straight shot
    b) press down for a ??? straight shot
    c) press right/up for a shot on the top right corner
    d) press right/down for a shot on the down right corner
    etc...

    A THIRD THEORY I've read says that you shoot using theory 1 and then you can give aftertouch or slight ball deviation using theory 2! :D.

    MY CASE:

    I aim based on theory 1. Nevertheless I see a LOT OF SHOTS of mine curving to strange sides using that. But not always! Imagine this:

    I'm running left to right, the goal is ahead of me and I'm outside the box. I decide to make a straight shot of goal, no curving intended. I shoot and mantain the right d-pad button pressed, trying o mantain the ball in the same direction I was running. I can get to kind of resuts.

    Result 1: the ball goes straight forward, proving theory 1.
    Result 2: the ball ridiculously curves to the right side of the net, as if proving theory 2

    It's difficult to reach a conclusion, even after 10 years of WE experience :)

    Hope that this was explainatory without being confusing and that great WE finishers can comment on this and leave their views.
     
  2. The Power

    The Power League 1

    18 July 2003
    [​IMG]

    Look at the picture... the aiming system is very simple.

    You have 2 methods to aim:

    First method

    1.Press left for the left sight of the goal.
    2.Press right for the right sight of the goal.

    Second method.

    1. Press up for the left sight of the goal
    2. Press down for the right sight of the goal.

    For a shot in the middle dont press any button.

    The first method is more accurate

    With the shooting bar you regulate the high of the shoot.

    Thats it ;)
     
    Last edited: 28 July 2005
  3. Mauras

    Mauras Premiership

    7 October 2002
    yep, nice picture and explanation, guess that goes in the direction of THEORY 1 with subtle changes... but the existence of 2 methods is in itself strange, unless as the image pictures, the "RED" method is used when you wanna put the ball as far from the keeper as possible for either of the sides. Is that it? because the lines seem to draw an aiming diference between them.
     
  4. Ike

    Ike permaninizated

    18 March 2003
    I'm quite a lousy finisher myself, I'm not sure but I feel the aiming has become worse over the years, I don't remember having that problem in earlier versions. I think theory 1 is basically right.

    What I'm not sure about is if it matters how long you press the desired direction. Sometimes I get the impression that if I hold it longer, it is more likely to go right into the corner, or if the player doesn't have good control of the ball, it is more likely to go wide in the direction you pressed. So, as a theory:

    Good control of the ball: The ball is likely to go in the corner you aimed for, no matter if you pressed the direction for long or not. To put it another way, the 'dead zone' for the perfect shot is wider. The width of that zone also depends on player values such as shot accuracy.

    Bad control of the ball: The worse your control is (eg. drop shot), the smaller the dead zone is and the earlier the dead zone begins. So if you want to hit it hard and hold the desired direction the complete time you fill up the shooting bar, it is likely to go wide.
     
  5. RuneEdge

    RuneEdge Silent Assassin

    1 October 2003
    Turn around, I'm right behind you...
    Manchester United
    No Way! :shock:
    I didnt know holding back aimed to the left of the goal.
    And I thought I knew everthing there is to know about PES4.
     
  6. The Power

    The Power League 1

    18 July 2003
    Yes the second method is more accurate.

    @rune

    try it..you will see it ;)
     
  7. filthydani

    filthydani Guest

    I think shooting with the right food is the most importnat thing about aiming, dosnt matter which angel you chose, shooting with the strong foot will make the shot more accurate and powerfull
     
  8. Mauras

    Mauras Premiership

    7 October 2002
    never quite understood how ppl have ingame time to:

    1) check which foot the player is using.
    2) remember if that's his strong foot
    3) change the foot for shooting

    but that's me, and ageing rat :D

    Seems like this thread isn't as inapropriate as I supposed, guess some of these news aren't fresh only for me.

    "stupid is not the one who asks basic questions but the one that holds them back afraid of causing a bad impression" ;)
     
  9. TikTikTikTikTik

    TikTikTikTikTik *****

    7 August 2004
    Liverpool
    the same as the picture for me, however after reading the comments of seabass on the middle shoot ( saying it was in the previous games) and reading someone saying with the use of R2 ive been practising that and have noticed that works a lot better in a 1-1 situation. You can keep it low with a decent amount of power, whereas R1 will give you more power but less accuracy. So now i use a combination of aiming which corner i want(dpad), which foot is the best for the player(leftside or rightside) and if i want to use r2, r1, or neither.
     
  10. Mauras

    Mauras Premiership

    7 October 2002
    Does this work regardless of my shooting position?

    I mean this example is made over a "left -> right" frontal position facing the goal.

    What if I'm for example diagonally facing the same goal coming from the right side of the box? It's exacly the same to make the ball go to either sides (up = left far side of the goal, down = right near side of the goal)?
     
  11. JayM

    JayM International

    17 April 2004
    North Yorkshire
    Celtic
    Holding the buttons longer helps aswell IMO.
     
  12. The Power

    The Power League 1

    18 July 2003
    Yes the same direction...regardless of your shooting position!
     
    Last edited: 28 July 2005
  13. kingpug

    kingpug Guest

    I can tell you this now, everytime I aim like left or right, it goes down the middle, when I aim for a corner like up+right, it 80% of the time goes MILES wide.

    I would say 95% of my goals are scored from within the box, either a 1on1 or a header, scoring outside is just impossible since every shot goes down the middle, even easy shots seem to just go straight into the keeper.

    Aiming needs a vast improvement, so does overall aiming, which includes headers and passes, for me the heading in the game is really a disgrace, if my own header goes to one of my own players its a bonus, it really is a shambles, passing aswell..
     
  14. timsmith10000

    timsmith10000 LEICESTER CITY!

    18 August 2003
    Leicester
    to score outside the box you just need practise, and then you will see what works and what doesnt, play a few games and just shoot when you get the chance instead of running into the box, thats how i learnt to do it, now i can score in lots of ways and its more fun
     
  15. kingpug

    kingpug Guest

    I shoot from anywhere, if the ball lines up for me nicely and I am at the half-way I will still shoot it, now I do some beauties but they are always straight at the keeper :|
     
  16. TrebuTa

    TrebuTa League 2

    8 April 2004
    I'm a lousy finisher too!

    Now, let's say you arrive in the big box, not straight in the middle but a bit more to the left or right(strikers vision). When I put the analog stick up and to the right so I can shoot to the goal from a sharp angle, the ball just goes 5m wide past the goal. It's either that or the ball just goes straight forward. I hope I explained this good, if not just ask.

    Second question is, when do you press the buttons to aim at goal? After you push the shoot button? Or you turn a bit with you player first so he can give the ball more spin. I use the second option and sometimes the ball goes extremely wide or he just goes right at goal.
     
  17. TrebuTa

    TrebuTa League 2

    8 April 2004
    I got the same problem.
     
  18. Shooting is generally shit, most of the shots go over the bar or straight at the keeper and if you try to aim in the corners a lot of the time it goes madly wide.

    The thing that REALLY bugs me is how the keepers can save some corner shots so easily, it never appears like the keeper is ever having to "scramble" for a shot, they always just "appear" in line with the ball as if they knew which way it was coming. Really sucks and I hope they improve the aiming system, although I doubt it. :(
     
  19. Chris Davies

    Chris Davies Resident PESsimist Staff

    14 May 2003
    Tranmere Rovers
    Passes are disgusting. Five times in a ROW today my passes failed to go to the player I aimed them at. There was no player between me and the guy I wanted to pass to, but every time it went to a different player entirely. It infuriates me no end; how are you supposed to play any kind of organised football when you can't even give the ball to who you want to give it to?! It's what football's all about for God's sake!!
     
  20. The_Analog_Kid

    The_Analog_Kid Non-League

    17 September 2003
    I also have a problem with passing, but taking a quick glance at the radar has improved my passing skills, specially with long-range efforts and crosses. About this shooting/aiming deal, I found ThePower's picture to be very helpful. Like j4y3m, i also find that keeping the d-pad pressed helps with curling/aiming (most evidently in crosses). Never tried using R1 or R2 tough... Just L1 and a quick tap of the Square for a chipped shot. I'll go training now and report back if I find out anything interesting.
     
  21. Mauras

    Mauras Premiership

    7 October 2002
    point well taken and once again a big issue.. since PSX versions I've gained the habit of shooting on a diagonal, meaning that even when in front of goal I tend to position diagonally left or right facing the goal and shoot. In the first versions of the game that's was super to deliver great shots on the sides, today I find a lot of my shots going wide, either 1m or less or sometimes just ridiculously 4,5m wide.
     
  22. Zygalski

    Zygalski Ninja Samurai

    2 February 2003
    London, UK
    England
    Quite a bit of weird conspiracy theories going on in here.

    Sometimes you just have to accept that Ronaldo with his shot accuracy of 99 will miss an open goal even when he's on a red form arrow. It's part of the randomness of the game that you can't control.
     
  23. Mauras

    Mauras Premiership

    7 October 2002
    yep, but I tend to blame myself really :)

    On the other hand one goes along with equally performed shots that vary one, two meters, but shots that go on a straight line and others that curve insanely performed in the same way is reason enough to think something's wrong :).
     
  24. brunnoce

    brunnoce It's a Grand Old Team

    29 July 2003
    Belo Horizonte, Brazil
    Cruzeiro/Everton
    about shooting guys, i have same issue as everybody since ps2..but i cant wait to try the new r2+[] shoot of we9, they say always insed the foot shoots..lets hope, that we can curl balls like kaka last game against argentina..
    and also choose to make fierced shoots !
     
  25. forgamez

    forgamez Guest

    Here is my suggestion for people on shooting. This from my many hours of experience and I think I am pretty decent. Not saying it is 100% true, cause I think the game adds a bit of randomness in just to make it more realistic.

    1. If you are on the breakaway, always aim for the far bottom corner. (ie. if you are dribbling down the left wing, aim for the far right) Actually, I find for almost all players, especially the bad ones (ie. Gary Neville), aiming for the bottom corners are the only way to go. Leave the top corner shots for people with good accuarcy. Going for the near corner more often than not will get saved.

    2. If you are posting up somewhat deep in the box (ie. w/ RVN), then I would suggest aiming for top corners. The reason being, all though bottom corner is more accurate, there are usually people blocking you, so a top corner shot will more likely avoid the people.

    3. For shots outside the box, it depends. If I have someone good, (ie. Scholes or Ronaldhino), always aim for the near top corner with just a little bit less than half power for the shot. Also, as someone posted earlier, holding onto to the direction button (ie. keep holding on to top left) does help. But that may be my imagination. For average shooters, (ie. Nicky Butt), I will avoid doing long shots, just cause the chance of you scoring is too low. Not saying its impossible, but just a very low probablity. If you are shooting with a bad player, aim for the bottom corners, again with little less than half power.

    4. I also very much agree with the poster who said that it depends on what foot the player is and how much control you have of the ball. They are both EXTREMELY important. If you are going to shoot a long shot, make sure you have 1)clear lane, 2) decent control (don't just turbo and shoot) 3) make sure you are on the correct foot. For the poster that saids its hard, if you play a mastr league team, I am sure you will get famaliar with your players quickly.

    5. The last thing is that it is important to be composed and not rush your shots. Just like in real life, players who are great finishers (ie. Herny , Shev) are patient and pick their spots. This applies to the game as well. If you are about to shoot, make sure you know which corner you are gonna shoot at, see if the lane is avaliable. Don't just shoot right away without aiming just cause you are open. AIMING MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE. Thats why I love this game. There are just so many aspects of real sports they incorporated into it.

    Anyways those are my thoughts, hope it helps. Can't wait for the WE9.
     
  26. PIPEÑO

    PIPEÑO First Class

    12 February 2004
    Santiago, CL
    Manchester United
    LOL @ Method 1. How can pressing back aim a shot to the left? i never tried that either xD

    and I think shot power makes more than aiming... low shots tend to score more easily.
     
  27. SPMC

    SPMC MY last WE07JLCC banners:

    22 February 2004
    califas norte
    howz about analog finishing?
     
  28. Mauras

    Mauras Premiership

    7 October 2002
    Tried the methods posted here yesterday with the picture and my scoring improved greatly. My ratio between total shots and shots on goal raised imediately from below 50% to about 80%.

    Nevertheless I find that the right vs left method is a bit less efective than the back for left/forward for right method.

    About the difference of methods it's EXACLY as put in the picture. The method 2 puts te ball farthest in the corners and the method 1 pics one of the sides but draws a tighter curve, not so close to the post.

    About the foot option... how the hell do you guys find if easy to identify which foot the player is using on Wide camera and how do you change ball between feet?
     
  29. TrebuTa

    TrebuTa League 2

    8 April 2004
    I tryed it too, nothing has improved.
     
  30. The_Analog_Kid

    The_Analog_Kid Non-League

    17 September 2003
    My shooting has improved a lot using the aiming method as stated in the picture posted by ThePower. Just like Mauras, I found it to be very accurate in relation to the green/red lines.
    About the foot option, well, just check your strikers before the game begins. Let's say you have a right footed striker and that you come dribbling with him on a breakaway, coming closer and closer to the box. The obvious way to score is to perfomn a lob shot. But since we're practicing aiming, let's try that. Very well, when your guy touches the ball with his LEFT foot, propelling it forward, you fill up the shot gauge. What comes up next is that he will shott using his right foot instead of dribbling it a bit more if you hadn't pressed the shoot button. Try it out, it's all about getting the timing right between the last dribble forwards, the power bar, and the shot animation.
     

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