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The Greek Euro Mith - R.I.P (as some forecasted)

Discussion in 'Football' started by Mauras, 20 June 2005.

  1. Mauras

    Mauras Premiership

    7 October 2002
    I remember some threads here after the euro. Some members predicted the obvious "death" of the greek team and their negative playstyle. This was understandably confused with lack of fair play, but the truth is now there for everyone to see it: Greece is having a shameful Confederations cup for a worthy european champion and the WC qualification is running away from their defensive hands.

    I sincerely hope they fail qualification, so the greek negative approach can be definetely buried and we can all hope for a 2006 WC free of "the greek example" by teams that should look forward to more positive soccer examples.
     
  2. gergerger

    gergerger Banned

    14 March 2005
    Considering how I hate defensive teams, I have to agree with you on this one. I don't care if they go to the world cup or not (considering there WILL be inferior teams than them)... sure, they can go, I just don't want them to bother the teams that really want to play.
     
  3. Zygalski

    Zygalski Ninja Samurai

    2 February 2003
    London, UK
    England
    http://soccernet.espn.go.com/report?id=184077&cc=5739

    [​IMG]

    It's a shame that the "best team in Europe" has to resort to these tactics, unsuccessfully.
     
  4. Mauras

    Mauras Premiership

    7 October 2002
    It's no news mate, they are doing the same they did in the Euro the diference is that:

    - opposing teams aren't as "beaten up" as most euro teams were in that period
    - the olimpus gods aren't helping them as much as they did in the euro (eg: the game against the czechs, as lucky as they could be).
     
  5. gerd

    gerd Retired Footballer

    8 January 2002
    Over the moon
    KRC Genk, Spurs
    Jesus Mauras, how long can some people be unfair...it's only the confederations cup...the one that treally counted was the Euro and Greece won that one...you can complain 2OOO years if you want but people will remember one thing about Euro 2004:

    Final: Greece - Portugal 1-0

    Like dozens of people said on this forum: Portugal was the only team who had a second chance against Greece and they blew that one too..the most clever team won it.

    I know it must hurt all over again knowing that Portugal could have played this ridiculous, worthless confederations cup, but boy: get over it.

    Get a life!!!!
     
  6. Cloud1863

    Cloud1863 Premiership

    10 December 2004
    Stoke City
    Im tryng to find away to defend the greeks but Im thinking its impossible they deserve all they get the play a very horrible game to watch a little like celtic but at least they had a good striker in Larsson the greeks dont have that from back to front they destroy the name of football. So roll on WC2006 and lets hope its a greek free zone!
     
  7. Dominic

    Dominic Serie A Staff

    19 August 2003
    Netherlands
    You've gotta be kidding me, are you such a sore loser Mauras?

    Yes the Greek team is crumbling apart now and won't make wc06.
    The Greeks simply won at ec04 though and quite deservedly so. The Greeks, got the maximum out of a 'mediocre' team compared to the likes of Portugal, to name one team. You may not like their style of play, but you can't blame them for it. They knew how to win and they went for it.
    Or would it have made more sense for the Greek team to have attacked 90 minutes each match, while being ripped apart at the back?
     
  8. gerd

    gerd Retired Footballer

    8 January 2002
    Over the moon
    KRC Genk, Spurs
    Exactly Don...
    They were certainly not the most attractive team but they won the tournament and that's all that count.
    But the frustration must be overwhelming since the Portugese stars lost both matches against Greece...
    Oh and when watching the final i supported Portugal but honestly they never deserved to win it.
    I think this must be the worst thread on this forum for quite a while...Mauras, you are not doing justice to your beautifull country and their very good football team. Just come to terms with that loss...
     
  9. Milanista

    Milanista Mangiamoli! Staff

    19 December 2002
    London & Milan
    AC Milan
    lol you didnt exactly think that for Milan when they managed to get to the final playing mediocre but effective football.
     
  10. RuneEdge

    RuneEdge Silent Assassin

    1 October 2003
    Turn around, I'm right behind you...
    Manchester United
    Who decides what is a positive tactic and a negative tactic?
    Common sense would tell you that a positive tactic is the one that wins you the game and Greece used that.
    As much as I hate defensive play (I'm a Man Utd fan and have seen tons of teams use it effectively against us), if it helps to win, why complain?
    If a team cant figure out a way to break a defensive team, they dont deserve to win the match.
     
  11. Dominic

    Dominic Serie A Staff

    19 August 2003
    Netherlands
    The difference is quite obvious though, as you can hardly compare Milan's squad to the one of Greece. Greece was a mediocre team playing effective football, while Milan is a great team playing mediocre,yet effective football.

    Speaking of Milan, this year's team was a shadow of their 03/04 team. That considering it consisted of 95% of the same players.
     
  12. Parkin09

    Parkin09 No...I AM SPARTACUS

    7 March 2004
    Swindon
    lets dig up a topic thats over 11 months old now, Greece Won....End Of

    Get over it negative football is played every where like was mentioned before Ac Milan play it sometimes and as said before linking to celtic they do it better because they have an amazing striker

    this portugese bitterness is really boring
     
  13. ghazi

    ghazi Guest

    lmao - here we go again. Don Demenico and Gerd already hit the nail on the head. . and hopefully the coffin on this conversation.

    there's no such thing as negative or positive "tactics". . only negative and positive "results." And Greece got the most positive results of any team in Europe and deservedly so.

    Hey, i wanted England or Czechs. . or evern hosts Portugal to take it all last summer. But Portugal got beat TWICE AT HOME by Greece and Greece also beat the tournament-best Czechs and France.

    Sounds like a postitive result.

    lastly, nobody expected them to do wonders in the long and gruelling qualifying, when compared to a shorter duration tournament where anything can happen, and where tactical changes have much bigger impacts because of the lack of preparation time and analysis.

    I could care less if the Greeks qualify, but they deserved the Euro crown more than any team that played last summer. Period.

    OPA!
     
  14. RuneEdge

    RuneEdge Silent Assassin

    1 October 2003
    Turn around, I'm right behind you...
    Manchester United
    Its funny how the only team to beat Greece in the Euros was Russia who along with Greece had the lowest odds to win the competition.
     
  15. JayM

    JayM International

    17 April 2004
    North Yorkshire
    Celtic
    Celtic are a lot more intresting to watch than most other teams in the UK...
     
  16. gergerger

    gergerger Banned

    14 March 2005
    Mauras didn't open this thread to discuss the euro. He did it to talk about "the greek euro mith". That is, the post euro period. Sure, he also complained about the euro, but he didn't mean to start a discussion about that.

    I believe in "positive" and "negative" soccer (soccer, not tactics), but not under the terms discussed here. I believe it has to do with every country's football culture and identity. Brazil will go negative if they ever play like Greece. But Greece won the euro because they know who they are and they got the most of it. It sucks being ultra defensive, specially when talking about national team (where you actually choose your players), but it happens. I don't like defensive teams, and I hate it when they do anything as possible to prevent the other team from winning, and just that. They become obstacles rather than teams. The debate begins when some of these obstacles actually win something. That's why I find this thread useful.
     
  17. gomito#10

    gomito#10 World Cup Winner

    9 May 2003
    DC, USA
    so greece should have laid down and let portugal win, sat there like practice cones cause they dont have players playing for man u, ac milan,
    etc.... not sure what your point is...
     
    Last edited: 20 June 2005
  18. jimis

    jimis Greek WE Maniac

    7 September 2004
    Germany
    What will this thread say to us?????

    First at all:

    in the euro 2004 greece has theyre complete team, now with a lot of injuries: dellas, Kapsis, seitaridis......, they cant play there strategy, greeks are not brazilians! and never forget that the greeks are only 10 million, wherre you guys want to find superplayers in this litle country?

    Everyone who told negative about greece dont forget that in the euro it was the only team who was a Team without superstars, everyone runs for his team! they have defeted portugal 2 time,France, they have defeted a lot of Teams with Superstars! in the qualifyin they defeted spain in La coruna!

    The Greeks would never be a Team like Brazil or argentina!!!!

    The greek team 4 matches now had a bad Condition, no one knows why only the team by hisself! After winning the euro its not easy to play a Match as european Champion! everyone wants to see you winning, but this cant be!
    The greatest greek striker nikolaidis from AEK athens has stopped playing Football! where we will find a new one like him?????
    what do you guys know about the Greek League??

    whats your problem??? do you think its easy for an greek to see his Country( who is european Champion ) to loose against Japan?????

    Has no one see that this Team plays totaly differen now, that they are not hungry enough???? I dont know what the problem is but stop this stupid thread against a Team who is european Champion!

    If you guys dont like the Greek team dont watch it! I have seen what the superstarteams of England, France and other countrys has done in the euro!

    why no one has started a thread about France? Who has Problems to defeat Cypus in the world cup Qualifiying????
     
    Last edited: 20 June 2005
  19. gomito#10

    gomito#10 World Cup Winner

    9 May 2003
    DC, USA
    good point
     
  20. every average team has their luck on one season or another, but i think greece's chance of future cups are very less... not just greece , im talking about average countries that didnt go to finals in WC.
     
  21. jimis

    jimis Greek WE Maniac

    7 September 2004
    Germany
    Dont missundestand me but thats the way greek plays Football!
    and if someone dont knows the Greek league, theyre players and so on, he cant start athread against a team!

    Greece will never be brazil, but if they find back to theyre old Strengh they can defeat any Team!

    now in Greece there a big discusions what is wrong witch our National team??? No one knows! Me to, i was inside the stadium in frankfurt by the Match Greece:Japan! For me it was a desaster to see my team loosing this way! No defence, no tactics, all the substitution doesnt give anything to the Team! you can loose a Match its not a shame the way you loose make it Heavy! In portugal it was a team who wanted to win, know it a Team who has Fear to loose!!!!!
     
  22. Mauras

    Mauras Premiership

    7 October 2002
    I don't quite get some remarks in this thread. Trying to explain a bit better:

    1 - I'm not talking about confed cup only. In fact, most important than the ridiculous greek performance in the confed cup is the laughable greek sadness in euro qualifiers.

    2 - That "greeks are not brazilians" is a nonsense argument. No one is Brazil, few can even match them. Yet soccer history is filled with examples of teams that excelled or even reached finals and titles playing attractive soccer without much resources. For example, who could tell what Cameroon might achieved in WC90 if they had a little more luck agains england (as they deserved)? Here you go, a nice example of a team who are not brazil, in fact I bet cameroon has even less soccer means than greece and yet... they remained in the colective memory for something else than just 11 men behind the ball.

    2 - Negative and positive soccer is a subjective concept. For me positive football is the kind of football that keeps me glued to the telly, which doesn't means always 100% attacking: it means inteligent, classy soccer. Did Greece one get a result? Sure. Did they do what they could to reach it and deserve credit for it? Of course. That doesn't necessarely make them have "positive soccer" in my point of view. To give you a perfect example: AC Milan - a team who is able to play both positive and negative soccer, unfortunately under a negative coach, but in the CL final they played as positive soccer as Liverpool, both teams tried to win, Milan didn't defend after the first goal. That's giving viewers what they deserve.

    3 - No question about the Euro. Portugal got what it deserved. Scolari failed big time in the final making the same mistakes as in the opening game. End of Story.

    4 - Greece was more than luck against Spain and specially, specially against the czechs, who played enough football to beat them by 2 or 3. Ahead.

    5 - What I meant from the beggining was... when the Euro ended some thought a new kind of soccer power, a new method of winning had emerged. I'm more than happy to see it fail. 100% defensive soccer must never succed as an example. All teams play with 11 healthy young men so both have equal changes: let's have both aim for the objective of soccer - scoring goals and winning, for the sake of football.
     
    Last edited: 20 June 2005
  23. juveboy

    juveboy Juve con te!

    3 January 2003
    Torino
    Juventus

    Great point my man \\:o/
     
  24. gerd

    gerd Retired Footballer

    8 January 2002
    Over the moon
    KRC Genk, Spurs
    Milanista and Mauras: you are both blinded because you are one-sided fans.
    A team like Greece will always be underdogs, minions virtually every match they play they will start as underdogs...they have the right to defend themselves with "negative" (or clever) football.

    A team like AC Milan with all their money: they have to play positive attacking football.

    If a team like Greece wins by playing defensive, they are being clever and win against all odds. This is good for football (and nobody ever said that Greece would start winning other things after that Euro 2004 Mauras). If a team like Milan wins by playing defensive, they are being negative which is bad for football. A team like Milan should win with champagne football.

    And to make this a litle bit more objective so that even Milanista and Mauras would see my point: read this post again and every time you see Greece think Liechtenstein, Albania, Belgium, Switzerland, Austria...and evry time you see AC Milan think Chelsea, Man Utd, Barcelona, Juventus or Inter.
     
  25. jimis

    jimis Greek WE Maniac

    7 September 2004
    Germany
    @ Milanista and Mauras:

    When i said Greece is not Brazil then i mean watch the Players they have for substitute, you can make 3 A Teams with Brazil soccers, and they can win the world champion Chip!

    Greece hasn't got Players with this high quality the only Team who is strong in defending and playing counter Attacks was the Team who wins the Euro! You Guys say it was Luck! Yes you need Luck also too, when you win a Match, But when Players LiKe :Figo, Raul, C. Ronaldo, Nedved.... Cant score against a Team like Greece thst is for me a Shame.

    No one speaks about other Teams who are now Bad watch France with all tere stars, Watch Italy who played a Defensive tactic for Years but what have they won???? Who is France now?They have Problems to defeat Cyprus and they are on the 4 place in the Qualifieng for world Cup!

    And here we are Talking about national Teams not about AC Milan or Juventus, in this Teams you see players fro all the world around, But for a National team you cant buy Players! Watch Germany they give german nationality to a lot of Players to build a Team, thas for me a Shame.
    Asamoah(Ghana) Omowoyela( i dont Know where he comes from) Kuranyi (Portugal).
    I Greece you will never see something like that, making Players Greek to win Matches!


    If you guys dont Like this style of Playing dont Watch it! What was your thinking that greece after winning the Euro they will defeat every team of the world, it was only a tournament, they have played well ant thats it is!

    Football now means to Have athletic Players who are Fast, have a good condition, a strong tactik, to be technical strong, to play well passes when you are under presure.......!
    Does anyone knows a lot of Teams who can do this????
     
    Last edited: 21 June 2005
  26. Milanista

    Milanista Mangiamoli! Staff

    19 December 2002
    London & Milan
    AC Milan
    I agree with you there.

    I dont think that a team with money means they have to play attacking. Its not always the successful option. But if you're implying that a rich team needs to play attractive football, I would agree that this year Milan was quite poor, but I believed that 03/04 we played the most beautiful football in a while.
     
  27. Zygalski

    Zygalski Ninja Samurai

    2 February 2003
    London, UK
    England
    I'd rate Mexico at about the same standard as Greece - and they're not doing too badly.

    Yes verily much there are things like these tactics ;)
     
  28. polakis

    polakis PES - FIFA Greek master

    10 May 2002
    Athens,Greece
    Aek Athens
    OMG Greece is this Greece is that!!!!!
    Greece is finished...Who said that?
    We had 2 bad games in Con. Cup and we are finished?For Gods sake...
    And who said that we are out of WC2006?
    Ukraine is 1st yes after the very lucky win in Athnes.We should have won 3-0 but the ball didnt went in....
    So what?
    We have Ukraine-turkey and turkey denmark.
    Do you remember 2nd place?Just wait and see.

    OMG BRAZIL IS ONE TRAGIC TEAM!THEY CANT WIN MEXICO AND IF THEY DONT WIN JAPAN THEY WILL NOT QUALIFY!OH ITS THE END OF BRAZIL
    Loosers.........
     
  29. Milanista

    Milanista Mangiamoli! Staff

    19 December 2002
    London & Milan
    AC Milan
    Brazil are known to be a good team, so people expect them to be back. Greece had a 1 hit wonder and people obviously notice that more than Brazil.
     
  30. SPiTFiRE

    SPiTFiRE Eus├ębio forever

    6 April 2004
    SL Benfica
    Oh yeah? And what to you say about the 5 stars in their shirt?

    Ahead... Greece isn't a joy to play, very defensive (playing like a italian style), they are a "cynical team" like a old fox (I'm not saying this to insult, but they wait for the best opportunity and they don't forgive to score a goal!), and when the game is over they throw the ball over they field.

    Brazil isn't Portugal, that's because they are Champions of the world, most of them are very experienced, they don't play at service.
     

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