The Footy United Podcast thread

gerd

gerd

Retired Footballer
8 January 2002
Over the moon
KRC Genk, Spurs
I think we should have a trhead about this very good podcast.

I'll start with a reaction about the latest podcast that was already in the PES2017 thread.
Listened to the latest footy united podcast by our American friends.
Very good podcast. I'm glad that Adam Bhatti has reached out to these guys.
In this latest podcast they said lots things that i agree with.
Particulraly liked the stuff about the exagerated stats.
The "best PES" i've ever played was the demo for PES2015 (after that the game was a huge disappointment). Bhatti afterwards talked about this demo. Demo's are made by a separate team and this particular team decided to exagerate the stats. That turned out to be a very good idea IMO. Of course this wasn't a full game but merely a demo, so we will never know enoug habout it to discover weak points, but i massively liked that demo.
The footy united guys are now asking for exagerated stats and i agree with them.

IMO there should be more stats like in the old days.

IMO Brian and his friends should dedicate podcasts about the stats and also about the influence game modes have on the gameplay.
Since PES 2016 the game is almost brilliant in exhibition games, but it sucks in the Master League and BAL modes due to scripting and team spirit.
 
Thanks for the thread gerd. This is Charles. Would be happy for this place to be a discussion about possible podcast topics and things people would like to see implemented in PES moving forward. If anyone is interested in coming on the podcast let me know.
 
gerd said:
I think we should have a trhead about this very good podcast.

I'll start with a reaction about the latest podcast that was already in the PES2017 thread.
Listened to the latest footy united podcast by our American friends.
Very good podcast. I'm glad that Adam Bhatti has reached out to these guys.
In this latest podcast they said lots things that i agree with.
Particulraly liked the stuff about the exagerated stats.
The "best PES" i've ever played was the demo for PES2015 (after that the game was a huge disappointment). Bhatti afterwards talked about this demo. Demo's are made by a separate team and this particular team decided to exagerate the stats. That turned out to be a very good idea IMO. Of course this wasn't a full game but merely a demo, so we will never know enoug habout it to discover weak points, but i massively liked that demo.
The footy united guys are now asking for exagerated stats and i agree with them.

IMO there should be more stats like in the old days.

IMO Brian and his friends should dedicate podcasts about the stats and also about the influence game modes have on the gameplay.
Since PES 2016 the game is almost brilliant in exhibition games, but it sucks in the Master League and BAL modes due to scripting and team spirit.
Click to expand...

I'm with you here on exaggerated stats. I much prefer them over the binding contracts that are tactics. Tactical adherence at 100% limits what you can learn about with your players, and that includes player role. Just imagine, a user putting Pirlo in DMF role, where he's sitting on the back line, while FB's pull forward. All because his player role is set to "DMF". There's no variation to the "DMF" role, it's not a DMF that pushes forward, it's not a DMF that takes aggressive angles so everyone else can stay goal side, it's not a DMF who drops back at an angle to come back to the ball.

Players hate to be typcasted, and these strict tactics bind them without a say, and their abilities. Exaggerated stats would be a lot better. For example, I have increased Defensive Prowess to 99 for all players, and reduced their Ball winning to 40. What this does is not only brings in a more aggressive reaction to the ball and player, it also greatly reduces the "stun" animation when a player is tackled since that Ball winning value is essentially removed. Makes a world of difference.

PES does a great job in using the phsyicality of player's height and weight correctly, from there they just have to focus on the player ratings/abilities and not just slap an OVR...over the top of it.
 
That would be a stupid thing to do, Brian.
I'm a non native English speaker and not sure if i'm "hardcore" enough to have interesting enough opinions.
Besides that, i'm not good with technology, making contact with you guys would already be half a miracle.
Thanks fot the offer, but i will keep posting in this thread.
I really liked the last podcast. Lost of very good stuff. Really hope Konami listens to you guys.
 
Just heard the latest podcast.

Some observations.

About the shooting.
There is not enough diffeence between weaker and stronger foot shooting. To implement it for the player (and i mean the player who plays PES) one could use both the left and the right stick. The most used stick (obviously the left) would be for aiming with the strong foot and the right steak would have to be used for aiming with the weaker foot. Players who have two evenly good feet: aiming with the left stick fo both feet.

IMO free kicks are too difficult. There should be more variation, but i have no clue how. The idea in the cast to play free kicks with the normal camera is in my opinion not a good one.

There was a very intersting discussion about the stats.
There should lots of more stats than there are currently. Personally I would diffenrentiate between 1 and 9,5 (theoretically 10, but perfection doesn't exist). A player like Messi should have some 9/10's and perhaps one time 9,5.

But usually the star players are pretty good, i have problems with other very good player. I will take an example from my favourite team, Spurs. Mousa Dembele is not a world class player, but a very good one. According to Opta stats, last season he had the best passing rate of any player in the 5 big leagues. The season before that (or the one before that, i'm not sure) Dembele was the best tackler in the EPL. In PES he's a very ordinary player.

In PES2 days you had fantastic players like Edgar Davids who weren't the top stars but they were very special, a modern day version of Davids would be Kanté. He is pretty ordinary in current PES.

And this a player who plays for an absolute big club like Chelsea, what about the Monaco players, what about very good players for lesser teams?

Our American friends think that that is because there are too many teams in PES. But what about Football Manager? There are thousands of players in their database. Why not use the FM stats (there used to be som sort of coöperation between PES and FM, but i wonder if this ever resulted in anything specific).

There are other opportunities to implement stats: the OPTA Stats for example. Certain fantasy football games use them, why not Konami?

And if all this does not work, why not use to community? I would gladly (and for free) help with stats about players and teams. Put 5 people on the same team and you will have a pretty good idea about stats for all their players.

I also wonder why there are much less stats in the current PES then in the PS2 days. Player individuality is less obvious in recent PES games. That is a shame.

I remember lovong certain players: D'Alessandro, Jari Litmanen, Ilhan Mansiz,... Those players were good, but hardly stars (perhaps with the exception of Litmanen)...this was for me the one feature that made PES so damn good...this is almost gone now...
 
Yesterday i started listening to the latest podcast and i stopped midway through teh part about a possible remastered version of PES6 for Nintendo Switch.

I'm very, very categorically against it. If Konami do this, this will result in the end of the PES. There are lots of people who prefer PES6 to the latest version (and for me PES2017 is very promising, it could result i na very good game) and imo they will not buy the future versions...

I understand that they want to serve millions of people in South-America who can't afford a PS4, but why not make this PES6 remastered version only for the South-American market?

I think it would be a step backwards...
 
I'd love it personally, but i'm biased, being a huge fan of pes 6, still playing it over pes 2017/fifa 16. Would like this remastered edition on pc too. I understand your point, though.
 
Ideas for a better ML experience.

First of all and maybe most important: a fully customizable ML (CPU teams transfer frequency, the possibility to turn of team spirit or limit the effects, the amount and the seriousness of injuries and lots of other things, good example: NBA2K games).

A more realistic transfer and loan system.

INJURIES.

Effect of promotion or relegation on your club budget and also the willingness of player coming to your club. Messi should never play for Burton Albion when they are a second division team. If they get promotion and win titles gradually bigger players should be tempted to play for them.

The possibility to introduce scenario's in to the ML. An example: you begin your ML and you have the choice to begin a new season or to start midway to a season (or at the end). For example you take over from Ranieri with Leicester in a relegation battle but still in the CL (what happened irl this season is an excellent example). Take over a club that is struggling because of an injury crisis or a club that is financially in dire straits.

News about other clubs could add to this scenario feeling. A team is underperforming and they decide to sack the manager, this may or may not give boost to their performance...

A more realistic form curve for both teams and players.
Players: if a forward scores an hattrick, the next match he should have an arrow up and vice versa. A player that scores an own goal should have an arrow down.
Teams: a team that won 4 matches in a row should be hard to play even if it is a team like Hull or Swansea. Teams that are in a relegation battle should be hard to beat (Leicester two season ago). Vice versa.

Stats for temperament for both players and teams. A player with a bad temper could be more at risk to get a red card if he doesn't play enough, if the club isn't doing well (this for your own club) or there is a bigger possibility that he can cause serious injuries to one of your players (cpu teams).

Players that are appoached by bigger clubs should either be more motivated (and thus have better form) or less motivated according to how you treat their transfer demands. How to do this: 3 or 4 possible answer to their requests ("no it's out of the question" , "no i will build my team aropund you", "You can go if i get the right money", etcetera, etcetera).

The possibility to have a director of football in your club or not. Not having one: you decide about transfers. Having one: you can give a profile for a player you want, and the director of football will search a player for you and you have to accept this...

Logic transfers from league to league: a Spanish player in his prime will never go to the Dutch league or even the Franch unless PSG. And this logic also apply to CPU transfers.

Lowering the impact of team spirit (but this could be solved by the possinility to customize the game much more than now).

Sackings! At the beginning of the season the club gives you objectives and when you don't fullfill them you get sacked and can restart at a lesser club of your choice (5 or 6 possible clubs in different competitions, also the possibility to start with the irl squad or with a squad that is affected by thransfers).

The possibility to edit the names and nationality of the youth players of the club you play with.

A better and more realistic system of rivalries. Also when you don't play them: example you play with Leicester and the same happens as with Chelsea-Spurs last season. Roma can become champions if Lazio loose to Milan and of course Lazio will not loose (this shouldnot be deciding, but a setback).

Perhaps more to come...
 
gerd said:
Ideas for a better ML experience.

First of all and maybe most important: a fully customizable ML (CPU teams transfer frequency, the possibility to turn of team spirit or limit the effects, the amount and the seriousness of injuries and lots of other things, good example: NBA2K games).

A more realistic transfer and loan system.

INJURIES.

Effect of promotion or relegation on your club budget and also the willingness of player coming to your club. Messi should never play for Burton Albion when they are a second division team. If they get promotion and win titles gradually bigger players should be tempted to play for them.

The possibility to introduce scenario's in to the ML. An example: you begin your ML and you have the choice to begin a new season or to start midway to a season (or at the end). For example you take over from Ranieri with Leicester in a relegation battle but still in the CL (what happened irl this season is an excellent example). Take over a club that is struggling because of an injury crisis or a club that is financially in dire straits.

News about other clubs could add to this scenario feeling. A team is underperforming and they decide to sack the manager, this may or may not give boost to their performance...

A more realistic form curve for both teams and players.
Players: if a forward scores an hattrick, the next match he should have an arrow up and vice versa. A player that scores an own goal should have an arrow down.
Teams: a team that won 4 matches in a row should be hard to play even if it is a team like Hull or Swansea. Teams that are in a relegation battle should be hard to beat (Leicester two season ago). Vice versa.

Stats for temperament for both players and teams. A player with a bad temper could be more at risk to get a red card if he doesn't play enough, if the club isn't doing well (this for your own club) or there is a bigger possibility that he can cause serious injuries to one of your players (cpu teams).

Players that are appoached by bigger clubs should either be more motivated (and thus have better form) or less motivated according to how you treat their transfer demands. How to do this: 3 or 4 possible answer to their requests ("no it's out of the question" , "no i will build my team aropund you", "You can go if i get the right money", etcetera, etcetera).

The possibility to have a director of football in your club or not. Not having one: you decide about transfers. Having one: you can give a profile for a player you want, and the director of football will search a player for you and you have to accept this...

Logic transfers from league to league: a Spanish player in his prime will never go to the Dutch league or even the Franch unless PSG. And this logic also apply to CPU transfers.

Lowering the impact of team spirit (but this could be solved by the possinility to customize the game much more than now).

Sackings! At the beginning of the season the club gives you objectives and when you don't fullfill them you get sacked and can restart at a lesser club of your choice (5 or 6 possible clubs in different competitions, also the possibility to start with the irl squad or with a squad that is affected by thransfers).

The possibility to edit the names and nationality of the youth players of the club you play with.

A better and more realistic system of rivalries. Also when you don't play them: example you play with Leicester and the same happens as with Chelsea-Spurs last season. Roma can become champions if Lazio loose to Milan and of course Lazio will not loose (this shouldnot be deciding, but a setback).

Perhaps more to come...
Click to expand...

I agree with most of that Gerd. . . .. I always liked the threat of the sack in past editions. .. .as for the scripting. .. . stop the predetermination of matches and seasons . .and Cpu teams should change their style of play when different managers take over.
 
Deco said:
and Cpu teams should change their style of play when different managers take over.
Click to expand...
They do, don't they? The only problem is, it happens so rarely (a club replacing their manager) that you barely get the opportunity to see it! I've seen two clubs replace their managers in something like 4-5 seasons in different ML saves!

Imagine a world where only two clubs in professional football changed their manager over the course of five years...
 
Chris Davies said:
They do, don't they? The only problem is, it happens so rarely (a club replacing their manager) that you barely get the opportunity to see it! I've seen two clubs replace their managers in something like 4-5 seasons in different ML saves!

Imagine a world where only two clubs in professional football changed their manager over the course of five years...
Click to expand...

Thats probably why I never noticed it ha ha.
 
Finally listened to the integral podcast.
I totally agree with them when they say that you get a good ML with good gameplay and nothing much is needed.
A realistic transfer system, development (good ideas about development in the podcast, as long as a CB like Jagielka can't become a CB with Messi-esque ability), training that influneces development, a realistic calender (Konami succeded remotely doing that).

Also agree about a better stamina system.

Some good ideas:
you get a flash message if a rival team (promotion, winning the league, relagation, CL qualification) scores or gets a goal against.
Fixture pile

I absolutely don't agree with the fact that ML should be about one team, but that doesn't matter is the mode is customizable enough. When you set up your ML one of the many choices should be between playing with one team or the possibility to change team.

If i play ML, i feel like being a manager or even more like a continental coach (hence why i suggested the possibility to choose for having a director of football above you).

Another good listen...
 
As for the youth players and regens and their silly names. You know there are about a houndred of data collectors from all over the world. They should just ask us to write up 50 surnames and 50 last names for every country thats in the game that way youth players could get real names.

For ML my ideas are the following:

1. just make the base like it was in the PS2 days as a base. transfers, training with a potential to increase or decrease forms/cause injuries, proper injury and stamina system which are in connection, also form system which is affected by abilities and the ratings after a game
2. get rid of team spirit and bring back the abilities teamwork and consistency so that way you would have real dilemmas who to play on a certain position eg. A, your old reliable player with high teamwork affecting the whole team B, your knew signing with high attributes but low teamwork and maybe with green arrow/slightly injured C, your youngster whos is in red form.
Thats all you need to be forced to mix your team and to write unique stories to certain games.
3. live scores from other influential games


Thats it as a base, its all PS2 days + live scores. I dont think its much of an effort. They probably have the old codes or ways to implement these programming codes in 2018.
 
As for the tactical side i think we also need very badly back the attack arrows and that defence levels.

You could set up everything manuall via those + the given tactics or you could overwrite everything with these tactical samples like Tiki-Taka.

Those basic set ups from the PS2 days gave the ability to replicate any tactic you wanted basically.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
As for the youth players and regens and their silly names. *Snip*
Click to expand...
I was really enjoying PES until the "team spirit" really started to break the experience, but I'd have carried on - I'd have carried on with managers barely ever getting sacked (including human ones) - I'd have carried on despite getting rubbish transfer offers for my best players and having to pay stupid money for average ones - I'd have carried on with the youth regens being 15-year-olds with the face of a retired 40-year-old, whose future you already know about - but when you roll all of this stuff together... It kills it.

(I've got great mileage out of the game, and it's quite possibly my favourite football game of all-time - no game is perfect, and no previous PES game was better in my opinion, honestly. I just hope this stuff is changed, personally.)
 
Matt10 said:
Episode 24 - and yours truly got to be a guest. Had a blast. Listen to it and let's hear some feedback. PES 2018 teaser and more!

http://www.footy-united.com/podcasts
Click to expand...

Great podcast. . .like your idea about the sprint bar Matt. . . .they used that idea before in boxing video games . .throw a flurry of punches and when the bar goes down you lose speed and power until you recover.
 
Deco said:
Great podcast. . .like your idea about the sprint bar Matt. . . .they used that idea before in boxing video games . .throw a flurry of punches and when the bar goes down you lose speed and power until you recover.
Click to expand...

That's a great comparison, Deco. I mean it makes perfect sense. There has to be a sense of having a chance to lose something if it is abused. I think this was FIFA's intent with the jogging animation, but just poorly designed. Charles is definitely not going crazy thinking along these lines.
 
Matt10 said:
That's a great comparison, Deco. I mean it makes perfect sense. There has to be a sense of having a chance to lose something if it is abused. I think this was FIFA's intent with the jogging animation, but just poorly designed. Charles is definitely not going crazy thinking along these lines.
Click to expand...

Well I think it's a great idea .. players should be knackered after running the length of the pitch at speed.
 
I also liked Matts idea. It would add a tactical layer toward the game.
You play for example against an team with wingbacks like Walker and Rose. It could be a good tactic to counter that with 4-3-3 and every time Walker or Rose made a run, to counter them with your wingers...because at that moment they are knackered...would be great.

When i started the podcast and i heard it was about the teaser trailer, i thouht meeh...but to be fair that was once again a very entertaining podcast.

I'm afraid expectations based upon a tease trailer of less than 2 minutes and a press text of half a page, are waaaay too high, unless B-man and his friends know more than we do.

But all in all once again i enjoyed it, well done!
 
I dont know. In the past we had no problems with such things as

- stamina as it was impacting the attributes during the game so it spiced things up
- form arrows as they were indeed working based on the attribute condition + the previous game peformance. and you could gamble to increase/decrease it by training and by risking injury for the injury prone players
- teamwork also what i would mention here as a big factor for ML when it came to sign a new player as it started from very low and you HAD to play the player to fit in

these 3 combo made an amazing ML back then. i would bring these backs honestly and then think about run bar

but this is only my dream
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
I dont know. In the past we had no problems with such things as

- stamina as it was impacting the attributes during the game so it spiced things up
- form arrows as they were indeed working based on the attribute condition + the previous game peformance. and you could gamble to increase/decrease it by training and by risking injury for the injury prone players
- teamwork also what i would mention here as a big factor for ML when it came to sign a new player as it started from very low and you HAD to play the player to fit in

these 3 combo made an amazing ML back then. i would bring these backs honestly and then think about run bar

but this is only my dream
Click to expand...

Yeh but the teamwork thing still sort of exists. . . for example if you bring on a new signing with great stats your team spirit will drop most of the time until he becomes a regular on the team .. ..I'm in favour of Matts idea of a sprint bar instead of stamina . . it would stop the abuse of using fast players to chase up and down the pitch constantly.
 
http://www.footy-united.com/podcasts
Episode 25 - E3 PES 2018 Impressions
E3 impressions are here! Arguably the most exciting time of the year in the annual PES build up has come and gone. Join Charles and Matt10 as they get the latest gameplay impressions from Nestor, Jose, and B-Man.

Could PES 2018 be the proper version of PES14 that we've been craving? Promising times, but we've been here before...

Thanks for listening, we hope you enjoy.
Click to expand...
 
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