The Cycling Thread

LOL!, yeah gomito, u see in spain (latin america spanish can be a bit different sometimes) people often use the world "animal" to express what americans would call "a beast".
for instance if i would say to u "jason pierre paul is a beast, man!" u certainly would realise i'm not insulting him but actually remarking his huge phisicality.
but if i would say to drekkard "dani alves es una bestia" ,he would see this as an insult (exactly as u thought he was insulting american nba players calling them "animals")..... it's just a lost in translation :))

anyway, although i agree with u guys that doping isn't just a cyclism problem, i honestly believe that in cyclism doping has become much more of an issue than in any other sport.

Gerd what do u think about we7god's idea (lifebans instead of those silly 2 years bans)? coz i kinda agree with him. theese temporary bans are clearely not working... don't u think a more "radical solution" would be in order. honestly i'd love the idea.... u screw up 1 single time? ok that's it, now go find a real job asshole!!! maybe it won't solve the problem... but boy, it would give me such a huge satisfaction!!! :P
 
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It's not a bad idea Ben.
I had another, similar idea a couple of years ago and i actually posted it to all Belgian professional teams (and nobody bothered answering).
What i was thinking about was some sort of pension funds. At the beginning of their carreer (and every month) professional cyclists should be pay a sum to a collective pension funds. At the end of their carreer they can get this money (with intrest of course), but only if they stayed clean throughout their carreer.
Cyclists who were found out for doping should not get this money and should also be banned permanently from cycling, not only as active cyclist but also later on, not as a coach, trainer, manager or whatever from other cyclists or team.

I'm afraid there will never be a good solution for this problem, unless you stop controlling and let those adults do what they like.
 
I like the idea of lifeban, and would support it in all sports. I also like the idea of Gerd, it seems that money is the best language to speak, so that would make some impact.

But the major impact of doping in sports like football is done in the 13-19 years of the boys. They dope them at those ages where there are practically no controls, and while they are growing to stimulate a better development. That is impossible to detect later on!

By the way, Ben, maybe Cyclism is the sport with more doping issues because it's the sport with more controls? You never know what's first, the egg or the chicken! By the way, shouldn't it be "the egg or the hen"? Jesus, English has some oddities!
 
Cheating has always been the essence of cyclism since the beginning of the sport.
Why do we have the impression that cyclists take more drugs than other athletes?
Two reasons: because they are controlled far more frequently and because this is by far the most hard sport.
Triathlon is hard? Compared to cyclism it isn't. Cyclists who compete in the grand tours are competing three weeks in all kinds of weather and temperatures...there is not a single sport that is comparable with cyclism.

In the 90's doctors started to give EPO because they were convinced that giving EPO was the lesser of two negatives...you can't compete in the the Tour de France, Giro or Vuelta without some form of pharmaceutical help...at the time teams were experimenting with life threatening things...so the doctors decided to take over because they were convinced they helped the riders...i'm inclined to believe them.

There is more about drugs than only cheating.
 
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lo zio said:
LOL!, yeah gomito, u see in spain (latin america spanish can be a bit different sometimes) people often use the world "animal" to express what americans would call "a beast".
for instance if i would say to u "jason pierre paul is a beast, man!" u certainly would realise i'm not insulting him but actually remarking his huge phisicality.
but if i would say to drekkard "dani alves es una bestia" ,he would see this as an insult (exactly as u thought he was insulting american nba players calling them "animals")..... it's just a lost in translation :))

anyway, although i agree with u guys that doping isn't just a cyclism problem, i honestly believe that in cyclism doping has become much more of an issue than in any other sport.

Gerd what do u think about we7god's idea (lifebans instead of those silly 2 years bans)? coz i kinda agree with him. theese temporary bans are clearely not working... don't u think a more "radical solution" would be in order. honestly i'd love the idea.... u screw up 1 single time? ok that's it, now go find a real job asshole!!! maybe it won't solve the problem... but boy, it would give me such a huge satisfaction!!! :P
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ahh yes, that makes much more sense now, no offense meant drek!
 
that's nonsense alexis, your english is absolutely excellent! :))
drekkard said:
...Ben, maybe Cyclism is the sport with more doping issues because it's the sport with more controls?
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that's a good point indeed.

Gerd i absolutely love your idea. just brilliant!!! :WORSHIP:
also i completely agree with u about cyclism being by far the most challenging sport in terms of fatigue. and that's probably what makes this sport so "epic", what makes cyclist "timeless heroes" to our eyes....and also what makes us feel so angry and stupid whenever another cyclist is "pinched" by the antidoping commission.
 
The teams i contacted seemed to be far from impressed...
That is one of the reasons i still think that drugs are widespread in cycling. And this despite the fact that teams and riders claim that there is far less doping in the sport.
I think doping is used different now. In the 90's people like Riis, Ullrich, Pantani and Armstrong used drugs to "fly". If you compare the chrono's in the mountains then you see that Contador, the Schlecks and Evans don't come even near the chrono's of Pantani, Armstrong and Ullrich.

Now doping is used against fatigue. This has for effect that the overall times are better because riders recuperate better. To give you an example. The total time of the 1996 Tour de France winner Riis was above the total time of the last rider in the overall ranking of the Tour de France of 2006 or 2007 (i don't remember the exact year, but that is not important).

I know that you can't compare different Tours because every year the road (parcours in French, i don't know the exact English word) changes...one year there are steeper mountains than the other...But the difference is too big. Although the itinerary changes from year to year, the principles used to make itinerary are the same...So the difference between 1996 and ten years later is too big...and if you know that when Riis won, teams were wildly experimenting with doping this is a circumstantial proof that doping is still widespread in cycling...

To be completely honest i'm getting fed up about this sport. This was the sport i loved most of all because it's by far the most epic sport. Compared to cyclists, football players are sissies.. But i'm sick and tired of all the hypocrisy and the cheating.
And what is really bad is that the real fanatic cyclist fans don't care anymore about the cheating. They prefer spectacular races to honest competition. They prefer 7 mountains in one stage above 3. They want their mountains higher and steeper every year. In Tour of Italy stages have ended on the ski tracks, tracks that aren't suited to cars...but cyclists have to climb them. This is madness (and i'm a big fan of the Tour of Italy, it's my favourite race).
Fans don't like a rider like Cadel Evan either. Evans is more of a follower than a puncher like Pantani and Armstrong were. Fans don't like when Evans wins...I have lots of respect for Evans. He's my favourite rider at the moment (together with Boasson Hagen and Ryder Hesjedal)...he is the first winner if the Tour de France in a very long time about whom everybody seems to agree that he is clean...if it would turn out that this isn't the case (and you always expect something like that in cyclism), this would be a huge blow. Evans is a role model for young cyclists that you can win big races (and especially grand tours) without doping...
 
I was just reading my last post, where i was talking about Ryder Hesjedal and since then he won the Giro.
It is strange that no English posters come in this thread now that they have a world champion and the big favourite for the Tour de France (Brad Wiggins, a strange guy, an elite sporter but also somebody on the verge of being an alcoholic).

Anyway what i really wanted to write.
Currently i'm reading a magnificent book, written by pro cyclist David Millar (Racing Through the Dark). It gives a magnificent insight of professional cyclism and the doping culture that surrounds it. Millar was fervently against doping, yet he ended up taking doping anyway. Everybody who is interested in cyclism should read that book.
 
Great advise, Gerd, I'm quite interested in this book. I hope I can find it in Spanish, but English will do if I don't.

Thanks for it!

No posts about the Tour that already started, but with Contador and Schleck out it seems a bit "small". But I'm confident it will mean more intense fights and defeats in the mountains.
 
I'm glad they are both absent alex. They are too far above the rest.

I just discovered something. Last season Gilbert was the best rider in the classics. This season he was very bad and suddenly Tom Boonen dominated after an unbelievable come back. He was written off here in Belgium. What happened? Gilbert's doctor is working for Boonen now. It's a Spanish doctor (with a Bask sounding name, difficult to recall) who before that worked for Saunier Duval the team of Ricco, Cobo and Piepoli...if something changes spectacularly in cycling, doping is the obvious explanation. The way the media here in Belgium are negating the obvious is disgusting...journalists should search for the truth...
 
I don't know if you watch women cycling but

Tragedy for young cyclist Angeliki Koutsonikoli (23 years old), as she passed away in a car accident last night...

http://www.sport24.gr/Sports/OtherS..._h_23xronh_aggelikh_koytsonikolh.1843366.html

(the fourth girl in the video)
YouTube - 2009-10 World Cup - Cali - Keirin (Women)

She was a near friend, my brother is with her brother at the hospital (they are close friends). He was in the car at the time of the accident, luckily not injured, but apart from her, her uncle was also deadly injured... :(
 
Scarcely watch women's cyclism. I wish her all the best.
Belgian television has an evening program in the margin of the Tour de France. It's a talkshow. Where non-participants of the Tour are invited. The day before yesterday they invited a 30 year old who used to be captain of ourt national ice hockey team and who later converted to cyclism. They was riding in a litle professional and had a relation with a grand daughter of cycling legend Rik Van Looy (one of the best classis riders ever). This program follows the Tour and was captured in Honfleur (France, near stage town Rouen). That night the cyclist (Rob Goris) died in of a heart failure in his sleep. The whole country is in shock now...

I was shell shocked myself. To be honest, before the talk show i had nevered heard of the guy. But after hearing him i had genuine admiration for him. While playing ice hockey is his weight was 125 KG's. Weight is the biggest enemy of cyclist. As a cuclist his weight is 85 KG's. In the talkshow he talked about his daily struggle against weight. It is very weird and disturbing if you hear the following day that that same person died in his sleep. RIP.
 
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Sad news again overshadow cyclism. And the tour has started like crazy, with lots and lots of falls and injured.
I can hardly watch it, though, as I'm having a long period of busy work.

It's a pitty, because it was almost sacred to watch the end of each tour stage at the office. We connect a big tv and we hear it as we work, and occasionally we watch it too. But I'm so absolutely busy that I can't even hear it! I heard wiggins is leading, let's see if it encourages more brits to write on this thread!
 
i'm more impressed by Froome to be honest.
I'm not sure if Wiggins will be as good in the third week. In last year's Vuelta Froome was the better rider and should have won.
 
Hypocrite bastard. I hope he gets jail.
The guy would have become governor of Texas and who knows even president of the USA if he wasn't found out. If Marion Jones has to go to jail for taking doping, then he should go twice.

The worst thing is that he systematically ostracized rivals who were caught out taking doping and meanwhile sacking team mates who refused to take drugs.

I'm following sports for 42 years and this ist the worst fraud i've ever seen...he destroyed this fantastic sports.
 
I'm pretty sure the German government allowing terrorists who killed the Israelis in Munich to get away clean and free is a much greater fraud...
 
gerd said:
Hypocrite bastard. I hope he gets jail.
The guy would have become governor of Texas and who knows even president of the USA if he wasn't found out. If Marion Jones has to go to jail for taking doping, then he should go twice.

The worst thing is that he systematically ostracized rivals who were caught out taking doping and meanwhile sacking team mates who refused to take drugs.

I'm following sports for 42 years and this ist the worst fraud i've ever seen...he destroyed this fantastic sports.
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And the worrying thing is that he didn't even appear to be emotionally troubled by it. What a mental case. Doing the wrong thing is one thing, destroying people who tried to sound the alarm is just flat out criminal. Those are mob type practices.
 
I agree that the sport was ruined before Armstrong came along.
But when Armstrong won his first Tour de France he presented himself as an icon of clean and healthy sports. Soon he transgressed cycling (which is a regional sports compared to global sports like football, basketball, tennis and athletics).
He was the head of this foundation about cancer, that made him immensely rich (and that is a fact my friend, it was proven before the USADA report).
Next he had plans to go into politics: becoming governor of Texas wast the first step, but becoming president of the USA was the ultimate aim. How am i knowing all this? Because a friend of mine worked in Armstrongs teams. (And i've been saying this for years).

The bottom line is that Armstrong became immensely rich and it was all founded upon fraud and lies. He was much bigger than the cycling sports. That is why i consider him the biggest sports fraud ever. It would be like knowing now that Mohammed Ali competed with iron in his boxing gloves...
 
gerd said:
I agree that the sport was ruined before Armstrong came along.
But when Armstrong won his first Tour de France he presented himself as an icon of clean and healthy sports. Soon he transgressed cycling (which is a regional sports compared to global sports like football, basketball, tennis and athletics).
He was the head of this foundation about cancer, that made him immensely rich (and that is a fact my friend, it was proven before the USADA report).
Next he had plans to go into politics: becoming governor of Texas wast the first step, but becoming president of the USA was the ultimate aim. How am i knowing all this? Because a friend of mine worked in Armstrongs teams. (And i've been saying this for years).

The bottom line is that Armstrong became immensely rich and it was all founded upon fraud and lies. He was much bigger than the cycling sports. That is why i consider him the biggest sports fraud ever. It would be like knowing now that Mohammed Ali competed with iron in his boxing gloves...
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Completely agree. He's cycling's own Moggi.
 
IMO he's much worse than Moggi, much worse...Moggi did it for his club and for sport, Armstrong was an icon for all people who suffered cancer throughout the world, he was a super role model (and presented himself as a role model) and it turned out that he was a fraud.

Just consider the fact that Marion Jones went to jail for using doping...compare her to Armstrong, she is nothing compared to him...

For me personally Armstrong should not go to jail, but if you take other fraudulent people as a benchmark, he should go.

All in all this is a story with an happy end. The USA escaped a disaster...imagine this guy governing a City, the State of Texas or the USA...

One should also consider the way he treated people who threatened to tell the truth about him: Betsy Andreu, Walsh, Filippo Simeoni, Emma O' Reilly and others. He intimidated them constantly...those are practices like in criminal organisations. A few well rehearesed tears while talking with Ophrah will not gloss all of this over...
 
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Well the flip side to that Gerd is that Armstrong did raise millions and millions of dollars for cancer research and treatment... A penance if you will... He didn't fake cancer
 
No he didn't fake cancer, but he made a name for himself as the healthy alternative in a sports that is infamous for doping abuse...
Armstrong did indeed raise millions for cancer, but also for himself via Livestrong.
 
This thread seems to be death and yet in 8 days the 100th Tour de France is starting.
Somehow i found some new excitement about cycling (despite all the hypocrisy in the sports).

Meanwhile the Dutch Rabobank als so proved to be organised frauds...

I've been rereading some of my posts about Armstrong. I've changed my mind about him (well a litle bit). I no longer want him to go to jail. I've been reading things written by Jonathan Vaughters a former team mate of Arsmtrong (and the first to break with him) who is now manager of the Garmin Team (Hesjedal, Talansky, Van Summeren, Millar).
What Vaughters wants is that the whole cycling world comes clean with the drugs period and that everybody confesses and that an open debate about drugs and cycling as a sports can start. Vaughters thinks Armstrong can play an important role in this open debate and he has contacted Arsmtrong. Apparently Armstrong has agreed to do this if this would ever be possible (personally i don't think so).

Meanwhile i hope Contador will not win the Tour de France, he doped himself but never adlmitted it. It seems more and more younge professional cyclists are fed up with the drugs culture in the sports, but the most successfull riders still use drugs. Now less in stage runs but more in the classics (Boonen, Gilbert, Cancellara).

This season we witnessed the re-emergence of the Colombian riders (Uran, Henao, Betancur and the best of all Quintana). I always loved the Colombians. The best book about cycling is about Colombian cycling: "Kings of the Mountains" by Matt Rendell.

I'm convinced Quintana can win the Tour de France one day...

I hope other cycling fans write in this thread during the Tour...
 
Froome - successor of Lance Armstrong ?!?! wtf was that yesterday ?!?!
Absolutely ridiculous and quite obvious what was going on. This reminds me of Rasmussen and Contador back in 2007...
Man, tis sport is so messed up... :(
 
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