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"Teachers drop the Holocaust to avoid offending Muslims"

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by EatonTJ, 24 May 2007.

  1. EatonTJ

    EatonTJ Why Today Doesn't Suck. Staff

    11 April 2002
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=445979&in_page_id=1770

    When I saw this story I was completely dumbfounded. I understand it's over a month old, but I didn't see any posts about it on here. It is such a huge step backwards, I can't believe more people aren't up in arms over this.

    But, I don't live in Great Britain do I... thoughts anyone?
     
  2. rockykabir

    rockykabir hello

    30 March 2003
    London -> New York -> San Francisco
    Liverpool FC
    I didn't have to read the article and just looked at the link...Surprise Surprise, it's the Daily Mail ;)

    UK's equivalent of the National Enquirer - actually, it's closer to used toilet paper.

    Please, for your own sake and intellect, avoid this trash...

    Sadly, it is one of the highest selling tabloids in the UK today :(
     
    Last edited: 24 May 2007
  3. EatonTJ

    EatonTJ Why Today Doesn't Suck. Staff

    11 April 2002
    Oh. Well there you go then. I suppose it really did sound too crazy to be true.
     
  4. Chris Davies

    Chris Davies At least, I think I am Staff

    14 May 2003
    Tranmere Rovers
    I read it from more sources than the Daily Mail, it was mentioned in a few places if I remember rightly (I remember reading this story and I don't read the Daily Mail).

    I think the reason that there isn't such a big deal about it is that (at least at my school, don't know if it's common all over the UK) history was taught in very short lessons and as such was pretty vague, so if the holocaust was included you get two minutes on it - and as a kid you'll forget those two minutes as soon as you get home and switch the TV on.

    I 100% agree that this shouldn't be happening, you can't censor the past, it's ridiculous. But if a kid is genuinely interested in history then he'll find out about it one way or another (it's not like you can miss it).

    That makes me sound really terrible - put it like this, I can understand it but I absolutely do not support it.
     
  5. ash

    ash DeMinistrator

    21 March 2004
    London
    Man Utd
    I find my History teacher to be very neutral when teaching History. Is is sooooo clever, being an Oxford History grad, and bags of experience.

    In lessons we have debates (not mass) about the Middle East Crisis a lot, and our teacher explains to us how it all happened. And how Engereland used to "own" some of the Middle East etc. A lot of things you won't learn normally in school, but our teacher wants us to get a full understanding. See currently you don't learn about the Middle East Crisis, or even the one after WWII at school, our teacher teaches it anyway. We also talk about those who deny the Holocaust.

    And the Crusades. Quite a cool topic, inc. Saleeh-Uddin or whoever you spell his name, and how the Christians lost a lot fo the time.

    Anway, to end, I think most children don't really care/know enough. So ifthe teachers utters something against their views, a riot will start. But the more, how should I say it, patient ones would listen to all points of views, that is the point of History, hear/read the facts, sources etc. and make up your mind about why and what happened....

    EDIT: Daily Mirror. It is the Daily Inquisitor of Engerland for those of you watch Smallville.
     
  6. rockykabir

    rockykabir hello

    30 March 2003
    London -> New York -> San Francisco
    Liverpool FC
    Political Correctness has indeed gone mad in some instances. In fact, it is giving those people who they are trying to "protect" more problems.

    Myself, and most of the muslim population in the UK will actually be extremely offended for using us as an excuse/reason for removing the Holocaust from the Syllabus. The only people who will be offended are a tiny tiny minority of nutcases who, let's face it, will be offended by anything for the sake of it.

    History is a wonderful topic. In hindsight, I wish I studied it a bit more instead of messing about in the back of class. Events such as the Holocaust, the Crusades, the Middle Eastern Crisis and the genocides in Africa should not be forgotten as they will ultimately make the mature people we are today ;)
     
  7. ash

    ash DeMinistrator

    21 March 2004
    London
    Man Utd
    Africa! Yikes, I have learnt nothing about it apart from a little on the slave trade at school :(

    I would drop learning about Henry VIII for that!
    But I have learnt ancient Chinese which was cool, and also Vietnam War, and also Cuba :) Good breadth, not just World Wars and English History like some other schools. Also Russia, in the 20th and 17th century.
     
  8. JimJoeC

    JimJoeC Custom User Title

    26 June 2002
    Southampton, England
    Saints
    "it found some teachers are reluctant to cover the atrocity for fear of upsetting students whose beliefs include Holocaust denial."

    Holocaust denial?????? WTF! How can you live in denial about that!

    "There is also resistance to tackling the 11th century Crusades - where Christians fought Muslim armies for control of Jerusalem - because lessons often contradict what is taught in local mosques."

    This is the most worrying aspect of the whole thing. How can one contradict the other that's just pointless.
     
  9. MonkeyJug

    MonkeyJug Steering 747s Up Above U!

    15 December 2001
    Southampton
    Glasgow Rangers
    an ostrich springs to mind...
     
  10. NickSCFC

    NickSCFC Banned

    18 July 2003
    Stoke-on-Trent, UK
    Stoke City/Liverpool
    Yet another sign of Islam ruining freedom of speech and open-mindedness in the UK. The fact that there can be no public debate about Islam in the UK is leading to the country becoming Islamised and loss of democracy...




    of course, no one at all is bothered about offending Jews, especially Muslims.
     
  11. ash

    ash DeMinistrator

    21 March 2004
    London
    Man Utd
    Nick, this is the blimmin' Daily Mirror reporting this!
     
  12. matherto

    matherto 12 Times

    13 October 2004
    St. Helens, Merseyside.
    Manchester United
    Strange, we never did anything but peasants and the Tudors in our history lessons. I wanted to do all about the two main wars, but nope, was stuck in the 1500s
     
  13. gerd

    gerd Retired Footballer

    8 January 2002
    Over the moon
    KRC Genk, Spurs
    It's sad that that schools don't teach about the holocaust for whatever reason (if it's true).

    About the Crusades.
    I remember when i was teached about the crusades, it was in that "us-the-good-ones against them-the-bad-ones" style and we were only teached about the first (and most succesfull) Crusade...that the Crusaders were thrashed by Salladin later on was never mentioned.
    Later i read a book that opened my eyes. French-Lebanese writer (one of my favourite writers) Amin Malouf wrote a book about the Crusades from the view point of the Arab World...pretty soon it became obvious to me who the real bad guys were..."we"...
    Those Crusades had an enormous effect on Arab people, they still perceive it as an enormous crime (and rightly so, but it's sad that almost 1000 years later this still can be an issue).
    People like Osama Bin Laden still mobilize young idealistic people with talk about the Crusades. Maybe it's time for the West to make a symbolic gesture and apologize (which is kind of strange i admit).

    Something i want to point out beside when reading this topic...
    When Reagan was presidient of the USA, some schools in the USA (it all started in California where Reagan was governor) stopped theaching Evolution theory in favour of the book of Genesis...what i want to say: it is no Muslim exclusivity...something "we" tend to forget.
     
  14. ash

    ash DeMinistrator

    21 March 2004
    London
    Man Utd
    1600s is a good era ;) There is the British Civil War, and when Britian becomes a Republic (Commonwealth), for a short while only though...
     
  15. bebo

    bebo Looking for a Manager

    25 July 2005
    Arsenal Thread
    The Arsenal FC
    we are taught a differences btw good from bad , but never consequences from responsibilities. There`s a difference btw peace-keepers and peace-makers. War and Love seems easier to understand one thing is certain they go hand to hand (relationship). What are we talking about again? I forgot!
     
  16. GFK

    GFK League 1

    21 April 2003
    Holland
    Hi Gerd,

    I study history and i can tell you that in the books I read about it (not particulary about the crusades but more about that period in general), that the crusades are shown as a stupid action from the 'west' and that all (including the last one) were doomed to fail - which they all did. I also remember that the west were way more cruel to the people they conquered then otherwise, when the muslims conquered it back. I think the western historici finally teach it correct to their students but still I agree with you that the West should accept this view too (although I think its more a question of 'not knowing').
    ANd about your last point; there are 3 Republican kandidates which deny evolution! Not to mention the ones who 'don't know but there must be something'.
     
  17. marukomu

    marukomu Ecchi otoko

    26 November 2005
    Okayama, Japan
    Man Utd, Stockport County
    Maybe it just applies to them.
     
  18. NickSCFC

    NickSCFC Banned

    18 July 2003
    Stoke-on-Trent, UK
    Stoke City/Liverpool
    True, teachings of the Crusades should be taught from both the eyes of Christianity and Islam, whther it be in the west or the middle east.

    What is this taboo with offending Islam, yet people are always open about anti-semetism? It's like the smallest nit-pick is a sin. It gets to me because everyone seems to be free to slag off Jews everyday, whether it be a South Park episode or Ken Livingstone!
     
    Last edited: 8 July 2007
  19. GFK

    GFK League 1

    21 April 2003
    Holland
    Yes, it just applies to them. I didnt say it was the parties opinion. Or do you mean something else?
     
  20. marukomu

    marukomu Ecchi otoko

    26 November 2005
    Okayama, Japan
    Man Utd, Stockport County
    them as individuals.
     
  21. lo zio

    lo zio International

    24 October 2005
    Palermo

    Honestly i have to say that my history teachers were always quite fair. I remember when i studied the crusades i had the clear perception of the aberrations we did in the Holy land. And actually my teacher suggested me to read "The Crusade Through Arab Eyes" of Maalouf (a great book of a great journalist, Gerd ;)). It was really an interesting book (and it was the first Maalouf's book i read).

    About "the symbolic gesture", Gerd, we already did it..... actually we did much more that this. The great Karol Woytyla apologized for what the christians did during the crusades (:applause:).



    this is very, very, very true, mate ;):) the arabs (but i could say all the muslims, except the turkish) were the most enlighted and peaceful conquerors in history..... and my land is such a nice evidence of it :)
     

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