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Tactical tips and discussion. FORMATION QUESTIONS HERE!

Discussion in 'Winning Eleven' started by EatonTJ, 6 May 2004.

  1. EatonTJ

    EatonTJ Why Today Doesn't Suck. Staff

    11 April 2002
    Dallas, Texas.
    Liverpool FC
    Here's a thread I think we need since many good threads about formations fall to the wayside after a few days.

    Post questions or tips about WE/PES (as they are pretty much the same) tactics here and we can all try and answer them.

    Hopefully, we can bring some more joy out of WE as it's been a while since a new release. I always enjoy making new tactics as it makes me employ new players and helps me get more out of a game I've played so many times.

    Feel free to be as creative as possible... I've made a 4-1-5 tactic before and it worked wonders... you never know until you try.

    Also, if you want to debate the best way to cross the ball (I prefer an early :l1: :circle: from deep) or the best defensive strategies for multiplay (no more getting scored on from counter attacks)... post it all here.

    I will kick things off with a few posts I've made in the past, and one new one based on my newest tactic.

    Enjoy.
     
  2. EatonTJ

    EatonTJ Why Today Doesn't Suck. Staff

    11 April 2002
    Dallas, Texas.
    Liverpool FC
    eatontj: 4-4-2 *****CURRENTLY PLAYED FORMATION****

    NOTE: EDITED FORMATION, PUT IN < ATTACKING ARROWS... FORGOT TO PUT THEM IN, THEY ARE CRUCIAL


    My latest formation, a derivation on the 4-4-2. By turning the typical "RH" into an "OH" I've been able to mix up the attack very well and create a bit of more space for my top striker to make to long ball a bit more effective. Plus, it's my first formation utilizing long defensive arrows for the SBs... very effective.


    ==========================/============
    --------------------------------|--------<--LH>---------------------
    ------<--<LB-----------------|------------------------------------
    --------------------------------|------------------------------------
    ---<--<CB----------<-DM---|---------------<CF----------------
    GK-----------------------------|------------------------------------
    -----------------------------<-OH---------------------------<CF>-
    ---<--<CB--------------------|------------------------------------
    --------------------------------|---------/---------------------------
    --------------------------------|--<--OH---------------------------
    --------------<--RB-----------|------------------------------------
    ======================================


    Attacking arrows:
    >
    /
    \
    <


    Defensive arrows:
    <
    <-
    <--


    It may not be exactly right (the positioning) but it's something like this. It plays out like a 3-5-2 or a 3-4-3 depending on where the ball is in attack... one of my better formations I've made in a while.


    I've got:

    Dudek
    Evra---M.Taylor---Hofland---Riise
    Donovan---LeTallec---Gerrard---Kewell
    ----------------------Ciise-----------------
    ------------Owen--------------------------

    as my typical starting lineup. It has worked very well for me in multi and against the CPU so I'm pretty happy.

    I play with BABB (A for Pressing) and the manual strategies Press and Opp.Attack. Of course manual attack level as well to mix it up.

    The way it plays out typically is that Taylor, Hofland, and Riise stay back always (Riise makes the very occasional run up the left, but only when I'm making it happen on a give-and-go :l1: ) and are able to keep possesion with short passes until I can either (in order of preference):
    1. Lay the ball to a waiting Gerrard to start the attack
    2. Open up Evra in the right "wingback" position
    3. Open up Kewell in the left "wing" position
    *4. (*sometimes 1.) play a long manual pass ( :circle: ) to a streaking LeTallec, Donovan, Ciise, or Owen. This long pass works very well in counter situations, or even after passing quickly across the back line.
    5. :l1: :circle: :circle: pass to "target man" (Ciise)

    If I can get the ball to Gerrard, I can work with him and ALT up the middle and can usally release Donovan or Owen with a long :triangle: . Or work a series of short passes until getting a good chance.

    Offensively, it's very nice, really let's me play "beautiful football" as I see it with either a quick succesion of passes/lay-offs, a long throughball to a player making a run, or attempt a mazy dribble run... all depending on the run of play at the time. A nice formation that lets you attack from all angles.

    But, I made this formation for defensive purposes in multiplayer. I was absolutely fed up with my fullbacks getting too far upfield and overlapping (in the modern 4-4-2, fullbacks are not designed to overlap, yet Konami sets them to do so by default it seems) the halfs opening myself up to deadly counter attacks.

    After a bit of fiddling, I decided that I would never give a SB a forward arrow, and that all of my defenders would have long defensive arrows (<--) (EDIT: Also, I gave my LB and 2 CBs backwards attacking arrows < very imprortant to achieve them defenders staying back!) so I would always have at least one more defender back than the opponent has attackers. It definitely works wonders... for those of you who like to design tactics I suggest doing this in every formation.

    Now, the SBs still can get up the field (obviously, if I'm controlling them, they will go wherever I want) but their mentality is to get back to their defensive position whenever they are not involved in the offensive play. To encourage this, I usually have them give up the ball about 2/3 to 3/4 of the way down the pitch whether it be a short pass to an attacker, or an early cross (early crosses... VERY effective).

    The CBs stay back always and mop up and clearances to break up counters and re-start the attack. I used to have problems with opponents being able to play long clearances diagaonally to their attackers (since my SBs would be out of position) much to my chagrin... now, this is no more. I now relish a long clearance as I win nearly all of them (still working on the differences that having the SB/CBs "Cover" or "Man Mark" to try and improve). And if my opponent is somehow able to quickly get the ball to the attackers, I usually outnumber them 2:1 so I can press immediately to try and turn the ball over without worrying about getting beaten on the dribble.

    The outside midfielders (Donovan 'OH' and Kewell 'SH') also have <-- defensive arrows to make sure they come all the way back as quickly as possible to cover defensively on lost possesion. This is working well, I never found it to be too effective when they outside midfielders would stay up the field, I'd rather there be more room for the CFs. Anyway, it works and they don't lose their attacking metality either.

    Oh, and the reason I have Donovan as an 'OH' instead of a 'SH' is to set up a better right side partnership with Owen. This way, Donovan doesn't hang out on the sidelines unless play is slowly building up the right side. Instead, Donovan is usually making runs to the top of the penalty area playing "in the hole" on ocassion. This gives Owen full reign over the right side which allows me to put a lot of manual :circle: passes into space for Owen to run in to. Plus, I'd rather have Donovan in for headers instead of Owen.

    The two inside halfs play with default medium defensive arrows as I've never had problems with them coming back to the right spots for defensive cover. Gerrard does great intercepting passes when the opponent is in my half leaving me free to press with ALT all day. I've giving the central OH (ALT) a short defensive arrow, but it never worked well, he just stayed up with the strikers and never came back (for both defense and offense). Also, no attacking arrows for either of them as I want them to stay near each other in attack to support each other. Don;t worry, they still make attacking runs, but they come back instead of staying with the CFs if the run fails.

    The other big task to accomplish in this formation (besides keeping the SBs back in defense instead of overlapping) was to get the DMF in the position of hovering outside the opponents penalty area when I'm in possesion... finally, I've been able to do so. I now cream the shite out of balls in long range efforts with Gerrard AND can restart the attack to him instead of having to go all the way back to a defender. In the past, the DMF would either wander to far into attack (putting too many people forward leaving me with no back passes), or stay too far back (and opposing CFs would cover any back passes or long shot situations). So, I'm very happy to have worked this out... I think it's because:
    1. I have Gerrard far enough back positionally (if you put a DMF too far up, they are constantly making runs into the box) AND
    2. With the SBs staying back, he no longer has to cover for them and can stay a bit more forward and not "mark" the opposing CFs.

    Ok, the only people left to discuss are the CFs. The short defensive arrows are no brainers... I don't want them coming back to defend (as they sometimes used to do) and leaving me with no options to pass to when I do win possesion back. Obviously, they are staggered so that Ciise is the target Striker and Owen stays on the last defender (hence Owen's attacking arrow). This works fine, but with two OH's there almost is no need for a target player in Ciise, so he's rarely used in that fashion (it is useful to have the option, especially with the quick :l1: :circle: :circle: in a multi game). But, by keeping Ciise off the last man, it is a lot easier to get the ball to him to flick on to another attacker, plus, it means he's running into the box for crosses, something very effective. The two CFs work in a good tandem, nothing really new here.


    Ok, so that's it. A disection of my latest formation. Probably my best formation I've made so far. A bit better positionally than my 4-5-1... although if I put those long defensive arrows and backwards attacking arrows to good use in the 4-5-1 I make prefer it once again.
     
  3. EatonTJ

    EatonTJ Why Today Doesn't Suck. Staff

    11 April 2002
    Dallas, Texas.
    Liverpool FC
    eatontj: 4-5-1


     
  4. EatonTJ

    EatonTJ Why Today Doesn't Suck. Staff

    11 April 2002
    Dallas, Texas.
    Liverpool FC
    eatontj: 4-1-5

    NOTE: This formation can no longer be made in WE7:I. I know it worked in WE7 and possible PES3 but it had to be made from the Valencia formation... To make it now, just move the 2 supporting CFs back to be OHs (as far up as OHs go) and it works about the same. The only change is to give the OHs short defensive arrows and bingo-bango-bongo they play like CFs again.

    Also, this formation is ridiculously easy to score with ONLY if you are very good at individual defense... a lot of 1 v. 1 defending here.





     
  5. EatonTJ

    EatonTJ Why Today Doesn't Suck. Staff

    11 April 2002
    Dallas, Texas.
    Liverpool FC
    Here is my explanation of the 4-5-1 and the 4-1-5 courtesy of a Mr.Coopz question many months ago...

     
  6. EatonTJ

    EatonTJ Why Today Doesn't Suck. Staff

    11 April 2002
    Dallas, Texas.
    Liverpool FC
    Sorry guys, I know it's a lot to read... but I figure for those of you bored at work (and the internet seems to have run out of information as it does sometimes) I thought it would be worth a read.

    Hopefully some of you fire up those PS2s and try some of this stuff out.... and hopefully I;m not the only one who enjoys this crap.
     
  7. rburna

    rburna Guest

    You are not at all the only one who still enjoys this--very much appreciated.
     
  8. KingSly

    KingSly Non-League

    17 May 2002
    Berlin GERMANY
    OK. Here's my strategy I used to play with WE7 but somehow lost my focus on since playing WE7iJ...

    I change my Formation ingame depending on who controls the Ball (me or my opponent).

    Starting with a 4-4-2 (diamond). (BBBA) defence style NORMAL

    Formation A (Standart) Balanced
    ======================================
    --------------------------------|<-LH>-----------------------------
    ---------<--LB-----------------|------------------------------------
    --------------------------------|------------------------------------
    ------<--CB-------------------|---------------------<CF>---------
    GK-------------------<-DM>-|----------<OM>-------------------
    --------------------------------|-----------------------------<CF>-
    -----<--CB--------------------|------------------------------------
    --------------------------------|-------------------------------------
    ----------<--RB---------------|------------------------------------
    --------------------------------|<-RM>----------------------------
    ======================================

    _____________________________________________________________

    When I need to score a goal or my opponent is playing on blue (attack-Level) i switch my formation to 2-4-4 (AACC), defence style NORMAL, by pressing :l2: + :circle: .
    The SBs go to the midfield-line and their role changes to LM and SM.
    The SMs go up front and thei role change to LWG and RWG.

    Formation B ( :l2: + :circle: ) Offensive
    ======================================
    --------------------------------|-<LH>-------------------<LWG>--
    --------------------------------|------------------------------------
    --------------------------------|------------------------------------
    -----------------------<CB----|--------------------------<CF>----
    GK-----------------------------|-<CM>-------<OM>--------------
    --------------------------------|--------------------------<CF>----
    -----------------------<CB----|------------------------------------
    --------------------------------|-------------------------------------
    --------------------------------|------------------------------------
    --------------------------------|-<RM>-------------------<RWG>-
    ======================================

    _____________________________________________________________

    When I need to defend my lead, I switch to 4-4-1-1 (CBCA), defence-style LINE, by pressing :l2: + :square:.
    SBs become CBs, all midfielders become DM, one Striker becomes OM and the other Striker is waiting up front for long counterattack passes.

    Formation C (:l2: + :square: ) Defensive
    ======================================
    --------------------------------|-----------------------------------
    ------<--CB---------<--DM---|------------------------------------
    --------------------------------|------------------------------------
    ------<--CB---------<--DM--|------------------------------------
    GK-----------------------------|---<OM-------------------<CF>--
    --------------------------------|------------------------------------
    ------<--CB---------<--DM--|------------------------------------
    --------------------------------|-------------------------------------
    ------<--CB---------<--DM--|------------------------------------
    --------------------------------|-----------------------------------
    ======================================

    Defensive arrows:
    < = low
    <- =mid
    <-- =high

    Switching Players and their roles on Formation A B and C
    Recoba A Striker, B Striker, C OMF
    Kily Gonzales A LM, B LWG, C DM
    van der Meyde A RM, B RWG, C DM
    Cordoba A LSB, B LM, C CB
    J.Zanetti A RSB, B RM, C CB

    Human opponents hates me for switching to C!!! :mrgreen:
     
  9. EatonTJ

    EatonTJ Why Today Doesn't Suck. Staff

    11 April 2002
    Dallas, Texas.
    Liverpool FC
    Kingsly, do you have problems with not being able to intercept long clearances playing in your "Formation B"?

    It seems like your CM may attack to far up the pictch (along with the SBs maybe) and leave you open to counter-attack...

    Does this happen to you (esp. in multiplayer)?

    Personally, I don't switch formations while playing as you are doing (although now I want to give it a shot) but instead I switch the attack level which seems to give me the same over all effect. If I switch to a blue bar attack level, all my players defend behind the ball and I activate the "counter tactic" to keep my forwards up the field... seems pretty similar to your "Formation C" I think. For attack, I just put the bar in the red, and everyone moves up the pitch.
     
  10. EatonTJ

    EatonTJ Why Today Doesn't Suck. Staff

    11 April 2002
    Dallas, Texas.
    Liverpool FC
    Oh, and I forgot to put < backwards attacking arrows in my first formation. Coupled with <-- defensive arrows, this is how I was able to keep my defenders back and not making overlapping runs.

    I've used < previously on forward players as well, along with V and ^ to get more movement on offense... I might try and make something with those again pretty soon to see what I can come up with.
     
  11. EatonTJ

    EatonTJ Why Today Doesn't Suck. Staff

    11 April 2002
    Dallas, Texas.
    Liverpool FC
    Thanks, if you try out any of the tactics (or just parts of them) post your experiences and the tactic maker can respond... maybe we can get a dialogue going here.,
     
  12. KingSly

    KingSly Non-League

    17 May 2002
    Berlin GERMANY
    Ssssssssshhhhhhhh.... :mrgreen:
    Yes that happens sometimes. But since I have Cannavaro and Gamarra at the back, I don't mind those clearences. They are good enough for picking them up or jump up front to trap the opponents Attackers offside.

    By the way:
    My Strategy-Buttons
    :x: = Pressing
    :triangle: = Offside Trap (I love this Strategy!!!)
    :circle: = Formation A
    :square: = Formation B

    Doesn't give the same. Try it and you will notice how fast they move up front.
    Sometimes my friends I play with are sooo surprised, that the shock is enough to get them out-of-concept... :twisted:
     
  13. EatonTJ

    EatonTJ Why Today Doesn't Suck. Staff

    11 April 2002
    Dallas, Texas.
    Liverpool FC
    Alright I'll defintately try it tonight... hopefully my friends will be as shocked as well...
     
  14. KingSly

    KingSly Non-League

    17 May 2002
    Berlin GERMANY
    Best moment is, when your omf has the ball and you are about in the middle between kick-off-spot and penalty-area.
    Fire the button and see them rushing...
    Tell me how it worked for you once you have checked it!
     
  15. rburna

    rburna Guest

    2 questions: what the heck is an OH/SH? And what does "I play with BABB (A for Pressing)" and the various other four letter terms mean?
     
  16. KingSly

    KingSly Non-League

    17 May 2002
    Berlin GERMANY
    OH = OMF = Offensive Midfieler
    SH = SMF = Side Midfielder
    BABB = Formation, Teamtactics, Teamstrategy
     
  17. distefano

    distefano Conference

    16 May 2002
    arcade holland
    so, inspired by eatonj and his argumentations about beeing bored at work, i decided to work out my favorite defensive line-up.

    |----------------<--DH>------|----------------------------------|
    |======--------------------|------------------------======|
    |---------|<-CB---------------|----------------------|-----------|
    |===----|---------------------|----------<OH>-----|----====|
    |----|----|---------------------|-----------------------|--<CF>--|
    |-GK|----|<-CB----<-DH>--|-----------------------|----|------|
    |----|----|---------------------|----------/----------/-|----|------|
    |===----|--------------------|-----<-OH>------<CF>---====|
    |---------|<-CB---------------|------------------------|----------|
    |======--------------------|------------------------======|
    |---------------<--DH>-------|-----------------------------------|

    - play with line defense (if you have capable DF line defenders)
    - high pressing (only when you feel you can't cope with the opponent attacks, otherwise it'll crash you players)
    - counter attack high
    - offside trap low (but when you play pressing set it to high)

    the most difficult thing with this formation is to let your opponent make the game. he (or she) need to play a very attacking style. most players i know only play very attacking so it's not a problem for me.
    try to 'invite' the opponent onto your half. if the opponent is playing with wingers, it shouldn't be a problem catching them with your dh's on the side. depending on the style of the opponent, you can easily set your dh's to the back or to the front. when the opposing players are near your box, try to steal the ball and pass them towards your dh's. when in a corner or freekick situation try to head or pass it towards the dh's on the side. now the beautiful part of this formation. since the sidehalfs and wingers are way up front you can easily dribble, or take your time to pass, towards the box of the opposing team. only your cf's are marked so if there are a couple of players left on their half try to do a one-two with the dh and the oh. usually you go into an equal situation, i.e. 4 against 4 or 3 against 3. and often you have the advantage when countering.
    what's up next is up to the capabilities of your team. i.e. if you have saviola up front you don't crosspass the ball into the box. play it quick towards ronaldinho and try to do a through pass or some. but when you have kluivert up front, go with your dh (in my case: xavi) and press l1 + o and kluivert can head it home.

    example of my favorite line-up with barca:

    gk valdez
    cb van bronckhorst
    cb puyol
    cb oleguer
    dh davids
    dh cocu (c)
    dh xavi
    oh luis enrique
    oh ronaldinho
    cf kluivert
    cf saviola[/code]
     
  18. Dominic

    Dominic Serie A Staff

    19 August 2003
    Netherlands
    I usually use this simple, yet effective, line up.

    -------------Buffon
    Trabelsi Puyol Mexes/Ferrari Zambo
    --\/-----------/\-------------------\/
    -Fiore-Tacchinardi Maresca Nedved
    --\/--------------------------------\/
    ---------------------Del Piero
    ----------Gilardino
    -------------\/

    2cbs, 2 sb's 4 cmf's and two cf's.
    Zambrotta and Trabelsi very attacking, linking up nicely with the respective smf's.
    Tacchinari there just to clean up the midfield, not a special player, strong though despite his bad stats.
    Maresca a real cmf roams freely around midfield giving great through balls and long balls, can score too.
    Fiore and Nedved there to cause ravage down the flanks. Fiore but especially Nedved tend to cut in, giving it to one of the sb's to cross. Although with Fiore i do tend to go to the sides as he is a great crosser of the ball, i often attempt early crosses with Fiore. Although i'm not always that satisfied with Nedved as he doesn't cross the ball always that well. So I often let Zambo do that from the left, I pass the ball often to Maresca and Zambrotta to 'casue some real havoc.
    Upfront, Gilardino and Del Piero.
    I often attempt 1-2's, smart through balls, openings and dribbles with Del Piero. Maresca and Del Piero often link up. Del Piero is always my topassister followed by Maresca. Del Piero often sends Gilardino through and Marsca often sends Del Piero through. I also tend to go to the sides with Del Piero as he has a good cross.
    Gilardino is quik, very good header and good finisher. works well. Although lately he has been scoring less as Del Piero is scoring more goals :D.


    All in all a very Balanced formation as all 4 midfielders are also fine at going back.
    I notice how Maresca, Del Piero and Zambrotta are pretty much my most imporant players. Whever Nedved or Fiore aren't in form, I move Zambo up to the midfield.

    ----------------
    I used to use the 4-5-1 often, but i've stepped away from it. I looked like this though:

    -------------Buffon
    Trabelsi Puyol Mexes/Ferrari Zambo
    --\/-----------/\-------/\------------\/
    ---------Tacchinari Maresca
    -------------------------\/
    ------Fiore-- Nedved--Del Piero
    --------\/--------\/--------\/
    ---------------Gilardino
    ------------------\/
    Midfield: two dmf's or one dmf and one cmf. Three omf's. Used to work very good, but Maresca is better in the 4-4-2.
     
  19. manoleteloveman

    manoleteloveman Non-League

    24 April 2004
    Just want to say I also do love creating lots of new formations and that I love we are now treating this topic. Once I´ve finished my exams, I will post some of my strategies, and formations.
     
  20. Big Boss

    Big Boss KJH = The Hunter!

    23 July 2003
    The Netherlands
    Ajax & Strasbourg
    Wow Eaton u like yo experiment with tactics i see.... :D

    Ill post my favourite formation of all time here now, ive used many others, but this one has always had a special place in my heart ;)

    3-5-2 Formation:

    ---------------------------GK-------------------------------
    ------------CB-----------CB---------CB---------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    -----------------DMF-----------DMF---------------------
    ------RH---------------------------------LH--------------
    -------------------------OH-----------------------------
    --------------------------------CF---------------------
    ---------------------CF----------------------------------

    I give both my side half an attacking arrow forward, and one of the dmf's an arrow back, and one an arrow forward (usefull for strayballs from crosses)

    Some good players in the formation:

    Dudek

    Thuram
    Stam
    Chivu

    Lampard
    Davids

    Nedved
    Carlos
    Zidane

    Van Nistelrooy
    Raul

    Maybe ill post some more stuff when i feel like making a long post :)
     
  21. EatonTJ

    EatonTJ Why Today Doesn't Suck. Staff

    11 April 2002
    Dallas, Texas.
    Liverpool FC
    KingSly,

    I've tinkered with the Formation "A" and "B" strategies and based on what you said I took a little different approach then you did. You mentioned how when you switch to your offensive "formation A" your SMFs make quick runs to their WGs positions... so what I did for my "on-the-fly" formation changes was to essentially keep the same formation that I have now... but make a few changes to one or two positions to create some different movement.

    It worked quite well:

    Starting from my default...

    ==========================/============
    --------------------------------|--------<--LH>---------------------
    ------<--<LB-----------------|------------------------------------
    --------------------------------|------------------------------------
    ---<--<CB----------<-DM---|---------------<CF----------------
    GK-----------------------------|------------------------------------
    -----------------------------<-OH---------------------------<CF>-
    ---<--<CB--------------------|------------------------------------
    --------------------------------|---------/---------------------------
    --------------------------------|--<--OH---------------------------
    --------------<--RB-----------|------------------------------------
    ======================================



    .....I made my "Fomation A"

    ==========================/============
    --------------------------------|--------<--LH>------------|------
    ------<--<LB-----------------|---------------------------<LW----
    --------------------------------|------------------------------------
    ---<--<CB----------<-DM---|------------------------------------
    GK-----------------------------|------------------------------------
    --------------------------------|--------------------<-CF>---------
    ---<--<CB--------------------|------------------------------------
    --------------------------------|-------------------------------------
    --------------------------------|--<--OH-----------------<RW-----
    --------------<--RB-----------|---------|-------------------|--------
    ======================================


    Basically, I moved my center OH to the center CF position and added an attacking arrow > to put him into a forward run if it's open when he gets into his CF zone. At the same time, I spread out the original "CF"s turning them into WGs and further gave them attacking arrows pointing out wide. I also changed my right "OMF"s attacking arrow to point him out wide as well.

    The result during play is that when I activate my "formation A" ( :l2: :triangle: ), my CFs part, dragging the CBs with them (this happens regardless of how the opponent is marking them, it's the worst for them if it's set to "man" mark of course) and my OMF/CF charges forward into their space. I play a quick manual :circle: ball into the center and it sometimes results in a 1v1 with the goalie.

    It's very nice to use this when I'm in possesion, moving the ball from side to side across my defensive line... it works the best from the DMF spot it seems. Typically, I like to work the ball across until I get some space or movement that allows me to work a series of short passes (or dribble penetrate) into the goal area... but if I see the defense "over-commit" to the wings (which happens when their forwards press), I quickly activate :l1: :triangle: and can sneak attack with an over-the-top ball.

    It took me a bit of time to get the timing of activating it and passing, but now it works like a charm. Beat my roommate 3-0 tonight with all 3 goals coming from this tactic (although I was tyring the tactic A LOT to try and make it work) the first time I tried it... then started using it less frequently but was still getting almost 1 a game with it. About the same rate of success vs. the CPU as well.

    Anyway, I use the quick stategy buttons already to turn on pressing, counter, and opp. attack, so I didn't want to sacrifice one to have 3 formations like KingSly. But, by using just one of the formations in the quick strategy almost like running a set play, I've now found a use for all 4 quick strategy spots.

    Cool stuff KingSly, might want to try it out yourself.
     
  22. EatonTJ

    EatonTJ Why Today Doesn't Suck. Staff

    11 April 2002
    Dallas, Texas.
    Liverpool FC
    A good tactic Big Boss, one of the better ways to make the default ML formation more successful, especially with the DMFs. In the default ML the DMFs would constantly be out of position (worst when both would make forward runs leaving only Stromer, Cecil, and Vorlander trying to chase down Ciise, etc.), sounds like you've solved that one.

    Do you play with Opp.Attack on? Just curious because that was the only way I found to get any real width in attack from the default ML 3-5-2.
     
  23. EatonTJ

    EatonTJ Why Today Doesn't Suck. Staff

    11 April 2002
    Dallas, Texas.
    Liverpool FC

    Distefano, I can completely visualize how your formation plays out... win the ball in the defense, play a through ball to a side DMF (who's already past the opposing SMF) then either play a 1-2 to further move down the line, of pass to an OMF to work some trickery.... My questions are:

    1. How does your formation work when you're in posession?
    2. Do the side DMFs get far enough up field to support passing in the offensive area?
    2. a) if they do get up field, are you open to counter-attack yourself?
    3. Or, do in posession, do you work the ball in your own half until the other team is sucked forward?

    Curious, because I can picture your fomation being great in the counter-attack, but it seems to lack the "triangles" needed to work the ball around in a build-up attack. Since both your OHs and CFs are geared to stay in the middle of the park, it doesn't look like you get support on the wings. Unless your DMFs come up....


    Just curious, good stuff though, nice detail in the explanation.
     
  24. Dominic

    Dominic Serie A Staff

    19 August 2003
    Netherlands
    No comments on my formation(s) than? ;).
     
  25. EatonTJ

    EatonTJ Why Today Doesn't Suck. Staff

    11 April 2002
    Dallas, Texas.
    Liverpool FC

    Looks like a good formation, I have a few suggestions you may want to try out... I think you might like them based on your description of the run of play...

    1. How about adding (or changing) Fiores attacking arrow from straight ahead, to diagonally ahead and to the outside. That way, Fiore will more often get to the sideline where he can better use his crossing ability that you enjoy :D .

    2. If you find yourself getting counter-attacked, perhaps remove the attacking arrows from the SBs and just move them a bit forward (which may not be necessary) in their positioning to get them forward a bit more. Usually, I've found that SBs with attacking arrows forward overlap the SHs too much for my taste. They didn't seem to be crossing too often for you (at least it wasn't mentioned) so you may rather have them in more of a support role, intercepting passes and giving you an option to retreat an attack to restart it.

    3. Maybe switching Del Piero's and Gilardino's side of the field. This would help a few things. First, I think Fiore and Gilardino would link up better on crosses... this way Fiore can go either middle/far post, instead of near post/middle for Gilardino... seems more effective. Second, you can now give Nedved an inside attacking arrow in additon to his straight forward attacking arrow and bring him into more of a playmaker role. (You may even want to change him to an OMF instead of LMF... don't worry he'll still stick to the left).

    This would create this in the attack: (from left to right)

    ------------Zambrotta----------------------------
    -------------------------Nedved------------------
    ---------Maresca----------------------Gilardinho
    ----------------------------------------------------
    Tachinardi--------------------Del Piero----------
    ----------------------------------------------------
    -----Trabelsi--------------------------------------
    --------------------------Fiore---------------------

    .... From what you described, this may better suit your personel. Maresca can now hit through balls to directly put Nedved, Gilardinho, or Del Piero into the penalty area, or play Zambrotta though to the wing. And Fiore is now in better position to cross to Gilardinho, or lay it off to Del Piero to work his magic.

    Obviously, I like your original formation as you seem to be able to play it with good variety... these are just some different ways to play it that may be better or may not.

    Try them if you have time, and let us know what you think. Good Post.

    EDIT:

    1:16 AM
    Nice timing. Just finished my comments. Jerk. :D
     
  26. Dominic

    Dominic Serie A Staff

    19 August 2003
    Netherlands
    Yes that might be very usefull, as I tend to only use Fiore for his crosses. I'll give that a try, thanks.


    Yes I do sometimes get a little exposed on the flanks on the counter-attack.
    I do like them overlapping though, I thought i did mention that especially Zambrotta often crosses the ball especially as I cut in with Nedved and he'll send Zambrotta through.

    You did give me an idea though, when i'm attacking. I could use the switch formation tactic, moving Zambo up to the midfield but retreating dmf(Taccinardi) and I might also retreate Trabelsi, although I'd need a more defending sb. Giving him that support role.


    Yes switching them might be usefull. When i still used the 4-5-1, Gilardino scored more from headers, because Del Piero wouldn't be in his way to sometimes try to head the ball(and fail miserabely). Although now with the exception of Zambrotta and Fiore I play more over the ground.
    I will try switching Gilardino and Del Piero though. This would in addition look better in the starting formation:

    -------------Buffon
    Trabelsi Puyol Mexes/Ferrari Zambo
    --\/-----------/\-------------------\/
    -Fiore-Tacchinardi Maresca Nedved
    -|/-\/----------------------------|/-\/
    ---------Del Piero
    ----------------Gilardino
    --------------------\/

    More Space for Maresca and Nedved to roam down the left side of the field.
    Yes I'll try Nedved 'inside arrow' too. Might be usefull as I could also use use shooting abilities more.
    + I do not fear making him an omf, in my 4-5-1 I also used 3 omf's. it somehow worked better than use an omf and 2 smf's. Well it probaly worked better because Del Piero and Fiore don't have a smf star.


    Only to use this when i'm attacking, right?
    If so, not bad at all. Although I might want Zambrotta and Maresca(he has a good shot) moved up a little further in a attack. This especially will suit Fiore again :).

    + It's just Gilardino. Alberto Gilardino he is Italian ;).


    Well thanks for the compliments and thanks for the suggestions. I'll try them out and i'll let you know how it works out.

    Thanks a lot.
     
  27. EatonTJ

    EatonTJ Why Today Doesn't Suck. Staff

    11 April 2002
    Dallas, Texas.
    Liverpool FC
    Damn, thought I caught all those 'h's...

    Oh, and yes, I missed the part about Zambrotta crossing... may you could change his attacking arrow to an outside attacking arrow as well... Although that may put him out of position a bit too far. But heck, since you're trying stuff out anyway....

    EDIT:

    I was trying to make a diagram including the effects w/the arrows. Trying to show where everyone would be when you are attacking and Maresca has the ball, starting the attack.
     
  28. Dominic

    Dominic Serie A Staff

    19 August 2003
    Netherlands
    Yes... since i'm trying out stuff anyway :D.
     
  29. distefano

    distefano Conference

    16 May 2002
    arcade holland
    1. not that bad. but basicly it's an all defense formation. you try to pass yourselves into the box. but it's not very strong at creating changes from the back. you need some really good oh's and cf's if you want to make some offensive plays. another favorite tactic i use is what i call the oldskool english approach: fire the ball forward. with a good header like pauleta you can try to head the ball to the other cf. a bit like shearer does in real life with bellamy. try to head it over the oppossing df's.
    2. yeah but it depends. with portugal i sometimes put simao (wf) on that position and he tends to go more up front than i.e. maniche. but you can mix up some or bring in a quick winger when you need to score a goal.
    2. (a) (whatever that is ;)) no, i notice that if you try to run into the side area of the box the oh stands a little bit to the back. so any quick counters against you can be easily taken out with a slide or an interception with the remaining dh's or the cb's. on some formations (like 3-4-3) the change of being countered are higher, but if you are capable of defending (which is a must!) you can take it out most counters.
    4. you can do this, but you need a relative good team. this is because of the change being caught when a pass is deliverd poorly. with france this sure is an option to think about. check out answer one for the shearer thing which i sometimes do.

    summary

    advantages:
    > great counter football. catenaccio style!
    > difficult for the opponent to score
    > frustration on your mate's face

    disadvantages:
    > you won't get too many changes
    > some people don't like to play with a good team (like france) and ths formation is not really suitable for teams like poland.
    > some people do not like to play defending football.

    skills you must acquire:
    > you need to be an ace in defending
    > you need to be able to deliver good passes
    > you need to be deadly in the box (cause of the low amount of changes you'll get)

    team requirements:
    > at least 3 strong cb's
    > good cf's, preferable one cf who is capable of passing and shooting and one cf who is good at finishing and heading. or better: two cf's who can do it all.
    > players who can deliver some good long passes
    > one playmaker as an oh

    ---

    keep it rollin'
    does someone have a nice full-out attack formation? not that valencia thing cause i think it needs to applied to all teams.
     
  30. EatonTJ

    EatonTJ Why Today Doesn't Suck. Staff

    11 April 2002
    Dallas, Texas.
    Liverpool FC
    I think a 4-3-3 might be the best all-out attacking formation...
    I'll have to make one.


    Something like this though

    ---------------------------------------------
    --------------LB---------LH--------LW-----
    ---------------------------------------------
    ---------------------------------------------
    GK-----SW-----CB---------CM--------CF-
    ---------------------------------------------
    ---------------------------------------------
    --------------RB---------RH-------RW-----
    ---------------------------------------------

    Could really be made into quite the attacking formation (Ajax style).

    SW - a capable sweeper, very good physical attributes a must.

    CB - you'd want a libero type back, or just use a DMF.

    LB, RB - attacking style backs w/enough speed to cover the whole field. Probably don't want them to overlap too far down field.

    LH,RH,LW,RW - wingers all the way, perhaps a bit more defensive for the LH,RH positions.

    CM - playmaker.

    CF - pure goalscorer. Pacey finisher, good in the air.

    With this formation, I see 9 possible attackers. For players who are excellent short passers (1-2 esp.) getting up the field with the ball should be simple. For flair players, there should be quite enough room to open a dribble attack from almost anywhere on the pitch. Heck, even long ball players can do well by using all the space.

    The problem of course is defending. It's easy to make this formation, but hard to balance it out so that it's not open to quick counters from a loss of posession.

    I might try to work on it this week, but maybe someone else could give it a shot because I'm in the middle of exams. Hey, maybe if Distefano is looking for a more attacking formation....
     

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