Questions: AI setting in Player vs player match & the "morale effect"

[membran]

Hi there,

I have two questions that keep on bugging me for several versions of PES now. Maybe some of you can help me clearing those up. Wall of text ahead!

1)
The AI setting in exhibition matches between two human players. Does this have any influence at all? When creating an online game session in PES2009, the AI is set on "beginner" level per default. It's not possible to change that. In offline exhibition matches between human players, the option is still available.

So, what does it do? Was Konami to lazy to put in an if/else depending on whether there was an enemy AI needed for the upcoming match in the first place? Keep in mind that it is possible to switch from "1P vs 2P" to "1P 2P vs Com" in-game without having to restart the match. Is this the sole reason, or does it also influence the way your own AI players (those you don't control at any given time in a match) act?

What I mean by that is this: When playing against another human player, you COULD choose to let the AI defend most of the time by just not selecting them manually. Of course we all know from playing solo mode, out-dribbling a "beginner" AI is way easier than doing the same against a "top player" AI. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I recall the defense mechanisms of an easy AI are much less solid altogether. Now, if said setting does influence (again: does it?) the behavior of AI players in an human-controlled team, it would be a bad idea not to defend "manually" all the time. Otherwise, on "top player" setting, it could be better (depending on your skills...) to let the AI player do his defending automatically. Therefore, the game would be harder on "beginner" setting. Better players could score goals more easily against a weaker enemy - the weaker player would not have the option of relying on the AI defense (not even by accident - think of players who don't switch players that often!).

Yesterday I tested this casually with a friend. Matches on "beginner" ended with 6+ goals on average. Matches on "top player" ended on 3+ goals. Coincidence? Maybe, because he chose Chelsea when I switched to "top player" and I found it always hard to play against them. Anyway, your thoughts on this matter?


2) The "morale effect". I'm fairly sure, everybody who plays PES knows this effect. Concede one or more goals, and your players just refuse to play soccer any more. Many easy passes end up in the opponent's arms, 100% sure shots won't go in, attackers hide behind the opponent's defenders, while the own defenders do everything but defend. But go up two goals ahead instead, and everything is the exact opposite: Basically, you can 1-pass blindly through the midfield without worrying of it being intercepted, your attackers are always free for a deadly through pass, shots go in easier, and almost every "free ball" on the field ends up magically at one of your player's feet.

From what I've experienced, the only way to "get back in the game" is to play it safe, hold the ball in your possession, try to get a shot on goal every now and then. In short, try to keep up with this situation. Conceding another goal at this moment means open season on your goal. Half time seems to weaken the effect. Goals can turn it around altogether, putting the opponent in that awkward position.

My point is, I basically like the simulation aspect of it - a team that trails 0-3 in real life won't come back without a miracle. But this is still a video game and the effect is way to strong. A player should have the same possibility of scoring a goal all the time. The players should behave the same no matter what the scoreboard reads. Surely, player fatigue has to be taken in account, but that's about it.

Now I know every player has a morale value in his stats, and there are the teamwork values that can be displayed in the formation settings screen. But I've never read anywhere (from Konami or from fans) about the existence of this effect, let alone a documentation for that matter. So, I'd like to hear your thoughts about this, too. Does it exist (or am I and my friends imagining this)?

Kudos for reading.

 

[membran]

I'd like to add quickly (I'm out of time) to the "morale effect" question.

Could be that if a player trails by a few goals, his team switches more often to an attack-minded strategy setting (I'm letting the AI control my settings: "balanced"), hence leaving his team more vulnerable by creating more space for the opponent's attackers. But this still wouldn't explain the other effects of morale.

 

[sattan_hussein]

1) I always thought that it was the GK level, once he's CPU-controlled. But you may have a point there. I'll try playing in lower levels and see what happens.

2) To be honest, that's not what I've experienced all these years. I've had great comebacks from being 0-4 down. A friend and I always joked that when I was winning 2-0, he would eventually win or at least draw the game, and the same for me when he was 3-0 up...
You say against CPU? When CPU is losing, I feel that they can score when they want, by cheating. It's the so called 'Momentum' that Seabass said that is even bigger in 2009, exactly the opposite of what you're saying...

 

[membran]

1) I always thought that it was the GK level, once he's CPU-controlled. But you may have a point there. I'll try playing in lower levels and see what happens.

Ok, but remember this was aimed at Human vs Human, I seldom play vs CPU.

2) To be honest, that's not what I've experienced all these years.

Thanks.

You say against CPU? When CPU is losing, I feel that they can score when they want, by cheating. It's the so called 'Momentum' that Seabass said that is even bigger in 2009, exactly the opposite of what you're saying...

No, I meant vs another human player. But thanks for the term. Will try google Seabass' momentum statement later.

 

[Rob92]

That's a very good question actually - when me and my mate played PES4/5/6 on PS2/PC regularly against each other, we never noticed any difference. My default setting was 6* or Top Player, his was 4 or 5* or Professional, and the game seemed to play the exact same on both. The only thing I noticed that was different was that there were subtle differences in the shooting system between the PC/PS2 versions of PES, but I thought that was well known so wouldn't have been to do with difficulty.

They may have changed it for PES 09 though, I am not sure, it seems unlikely though.

 

[membran]

That's a very good question actually - when me and my mate played PES4/5/6 on PS2/PC regularly against each other, we never noticed any difference. My default setting was 6* or Top Player, his was 4 or 5* or Professional, and the game seemed to play the exact same on both.

Maybe not enough contrast to notice? I'll check with my mate the next time we play on both lowest and highest setting.

 

[neil]

1- great point. I used to wonder that about the keepers in previous versions but hadn't considered that it could also affect the positional play etc of the rest of the teams (when not in human control. My suspicion is that the level makes no difference but I could be wrong.

2- Don't really agree with that tbh. I think it's just sod's law that when things are going for you, everything seems to hit the net and vice versa. Does tend to happen though. I think luck often plays a big part as whether a player sticks in a chance or not is often in the lap of the gods.

I'll add a umber 3 if you don't mind-

(3) I always wished it was possibly for PES (or any other footie game I guess) to be able to make an away game harder to win that a home game. In real life, a champs league away game is really tough but it makes no difference in PES. I reckon they should have an option at the start of a competition to make the ref's homers (slighty bias in favour of the home team). May make the away goals scenario in the knock-out stages a bit more interesting without having too much affect to make it annoying.

just a thought- cheers all