POLL: Master League Youth System

Do you like the Youth system in Master League in PES2017?

  • Yes - I have no problems with the current youth system

    Votes: 10 8.4%

  • No - I would like to see a change in how the youth system works

    Votes: 109 91.6%
  • Total voters
    119
robbieryan

robbieryan

I dream of occasional fanzine mentions
21 August 2011
Fife
Millwall
Hi All.

Something that has grated me for a long time in Master League is the current system for youth team players. After talking about it numerous times in the main threads and the Master League Adventures thread It seems that a lot of people have a similar opinion and dislike the current system, whether it be the stats, old man faces on 16 year olds or the fact you can get a really good player essentially for free.

If you don't know what I am talking about, I have an example of my current Youth team as Torino manager in 2022

DCht4QxXoAAc45C.jpg:large


I want to collect data to take to Konami to be able to give feedback on this, me tweeting them saying 'I don't like this' without any meaningful backup seems pointless. Please respond to the poll and leave a comment in the thread about what you would like to see changed and why if you have any opinion on this issue.

Thanks
 
I have voted that I would like to see a change in the system.

For me, the Overall ratings that the youth players have is far too high by default, this means that you can essentially get 16 year olds for free who are as good, if not better than your current players in your squad, within a few years these players become the best in the entire game killing the immersion of Master League as it becomes too easy and your squad becomes more unrealistic.
 
Youth System needs a major overhaul. The current system really destroy the immersion due to it's recycling nature.
 
No need to rewrite everything I wrote in the ML thread:

*aLe said:
I agree.
They should just be "newgens" instead of regens: it must not be that difficult after all.

All they really need is a list of the most used surnames in every language (like the ones provided by behindthename which by the way were the ones I was using when trying to create a PES 5 OF made only of fake players, good ol' times) and a set of templates to derive the appearance/stats of the players from (much like what happens in FIFA and/or FM).

What happens in PES is absolutely game breaking after a few years and I usually stop too before it happens.
Exceptions do exist in real life (Christian Maldini who is the son of Paolo Maldini who in turn is the son of Cesare Maldini for example, or Federico Chiesa) but it's not like each and every single player must return with the same role and with the same stats more or less and you already know he's going to be a superstar, come on.
Also in FIFA there's the way to spot future superstars when they regen under a false name (they spawn in the league the former player was playing in and they have the same nationality, so if Pirlo stops playing and you almost immediately spot a random Italian guy joining the youth academy of one of the MLS teams you know it's most likely him in disguise) but in PES this is way worse.
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Ameppe said:
There shouldn't be an explanation to why the current system is totally wrong. Just create a random regens system and it will be good.
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a-ha but you see this is where it gets more complicated and why I wanted to keep the poll simple.

Sure, when Z. Ibrahimovic retires, let's replace him with a randomly generated player. i'd be all for that BUT from konami's point of view, all that work that's gone into that original player has gone. As well as that, what happens on the game plan screen? All licensed players have their real photo in game, we'll lose real photo's and have what in place? a random grey face like PES2017?

The solution isn't an easy one and imo is a discussion for another day, first I just want to get acknowledgement that the current system is almost universally disliked!
 
robbieryan said:
a-ha but you see this is where it gets more complicated and why I wanted to keep the poll simple.

Sure, when Z. Ibrahimovic retires, let's replace him with a randomly generated player. i'd be all for that BUT from konami's point of view, all that work that's gone into that original player has gone. As well as that, what happens on the game plan screen? All licensed players have their real photo in game, we'll lose real photo's and have what in place? a random grey face like PES2017?

The solution isn't an easy one and imo is a discussion for another day, first I just want to get acknowledgement that the current system is almost universally disliked!
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Honestly i don't care if the new regen players would have grey faces like in Pes 2017, but they could use a gameplan face generator for regen players.
 
100% dislike so far. not exactly sure what to do next! i will message officialpes with this link. i'm hoping that the poll is the info presented simply and the replies in the thread provide opinion and valuable feedback...
 
robbieryan said:
i'm hoping that the poll is the info presented simply and the replies in the thread provide opinion and valuable feedback...
Click to expand...
Hopefully it's not too late for them to implement "random" newgens instead of the same players who respawn over and over and over.
It would really, really be a game changer.

I just hope they're not willing to follow EA's path, only looking after FUT users and neglecting single player modes. ML used to be great, let's make it great again!

#makeMasterLeagueGreatAgain
 
ianni said:
Youth System need an option to activate this player regeneration or to not activate it, as with the "use Classic Players" option.
Click to expand...

Yup, but if they introduce this option, then the game also needs one entirely new youth system feature (new as far as PES is concerned) - game would have to create new random youngsters every season. Otherwise, given enough seasons, every available player would retire and there would be no one to play with.
 
Lami said:
Haha I'm the opposite. My teams are usually full of them. Only yesterday I promoted 4 of them.
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See? You're still playing PES 2017 and you're doubting whether or not you'll get 2018? Come on now...
comeonyoureds.gif
 
zlac said:
game would have to create new random youngsters every season.
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Yeah, exactly. My idea would be as follows:

If a player retires, a new player should be created belonging to the same confederation the retired one belonged to and playing in a similar role (for example, when Iniesta retires, a new European youth playing as a midfielder should spawn).
For every role there should be some templates for stats and some templates for development curve that vary from 'non-league for entire life' to 'future superstar' to 'wonderkid' and the newgen should be given one of them, almost randomly. He should be randomly aged between 15 and 18.
His name should be chosen randomly from a table containing the most used surnames in a language (for example, if the guy is Italian he should be called Rossi, or Bianchi, or Spada... Definitely not Sinkiewicz) and his appearance should be built with a skin tone matching the region he's from, with random eyes colour (matching the skin tone) and random hair colour/hairstyle (again matching the skin colour, I wouldn't want to see a newgen from Iceland with dark skin, green eyes and red hair).
Then he should join a random team of his nation at the beginning, with a youth contract, and you should be able to browse through the youth teams and scout players you believe are interesting to you (for example by role/position).
Players from nations who have no teams in the game should randomly sign for teams of the same confederation or remain unattached, why not.
​
Complicated maybe, but it would really add a lot of realism to the ML. Now it's just too easy to build supadupa teams with regens, as you already know who they are.
 
zlac said:
Yup, but if they introduce this option, then the game also needs one entirely new youth system feature (new as far as PES is concerned) - game would have to create new random youngsters every season. Otherwise, given enough seasons, every available player would retire and there would be no one to play with.
Click to expand...

exactly why this is more complicated than we think, however the starting point is saying we don't like the current system and working from there :)
 
To be honest?

I don't mind it ALL that much. I would settle for retired players respawning with random stats. So new Ibrahimović might be some low-level goalkeeper without any redeeming traits and new Ben Foster might be well, what Ibra used to be :D I could easily live with this.

Alternatively, just give us the option to turn regens off. Randomly generated players, I guess it would be okay but it wouldn't be massive improvement for me at all. I understand (and 100% agree) we have a problem, this one I can just...live with or sth idk.

Do you know what's the real problem with regens though? Early retirements. It's shitty! Only yesterday I've noticed Vitor Gomes, my yung AMF is regen of a guy who's 29 years old at the game start. So he retired at 30. What the hell! In PES 5/6 they always retire very late, 38+ in 90% of cases, but here they can stop so early it has to be some shitty if condition, like if player_age > 30 then rng chance to retire and that's how we even notice regens happen.

I barely notice them in PES 5/6. You gotta play for at least five years to start noticing regenators. In new ML they retire so early you get flooded with them right from the start.

So basically just raise average age of when retirement happens and problem will be mostly gone.


Regardless, I appreciate the thread @robbieryan , we Master League Fam (wot :D) are finally awake/awoken/whatever we dont sleep english is hard plz send help. I remember sad times when I was posting my PES 6 MLs there for, like, me myself and I and now those dark days are gone. Just a sidenote, random way to say thanks to y'all :)
 
Anjin Miura said:
To be honest?

I don't mind it ALL that much. I would settle for retired players respawning with random stats. So new Ibrahimović might be some low-level goalkeeper without any redeeming traits and new Ben Foster might be well, what Ibra used to be :D I could easily live with this.

Alternatively, just give us the option to turn regens off. Randomly generated players, I guess it would be okay but it wouldn't be massive improvement for me at all. I understand (and 100% agree) we have a problem, this one I can just...live with or sth idk.

Do you know what's the real problem with regens though? Early retirements. It's shitty! Only yesterday I've noticed Vitor Gomes, my yung AMF is regen of a guy who's 29 years old at the game start. So he retired at 30. What the hell! In PES 5/6 they always retire very late, 38+ in 90% of cases, but here they can stop so early it has to be some shitty if condition, like if player_age > 30 then rng chance to retire and that's how we even notice regens happen.

I barely notice them in PES 5/6. You gotta play for at least five years to start noticing regenators. In new ML they retire so early you get flooded with them right from the start.

So basically just raise average age of when retirement happens and problem will be mostly gone.


Regardless, I appreciate the thread @robbieryan , we Master League Fam (wot :D) are finally awake/awoken/whatever we dont sleep english is hard plz send help. I remember sad times when I was posting my PES 6 MLs there for, like, me myself and I and now those dark days are gone. Just a sidenote, random way to say thanks to y'all :)
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Great post, suggestions there that could possibly solve all problems for devs and ML enthusiasts.

Randomising the stats for the regens - this would mean all the hard work Konami have put in on player faces/models, commentary doesn't go to waste. It also means that you as a player don't have a nailed on superstar based on the name and look of the regenerated player. For me this is the best solution. Combine that with the option to turn off Youth players and you might nearly please everyone although I do agree with a previous post that says perhaps the player pool will end up too small too quickly, i think raising the retirement age would help with that though! too many players retire at an early age!
 
They needs to change the whole youth system plus short Youth cup or something like that [with play or sim option].
 
It has lot of fun, but after some years its boring, so they have to change that system.. I would suggest them to use basic characteristics from players. Something like a base copy of stats-positions combo (and maybe height-weight) randomising players names and editmode faces.
 
How I about I make this harder?

I'd love a youth or reserves league :P. More like they play the youth or reserves teams the first team is playing.

I've actually always dreamt of it but I know it's never happening because too many games. But we can chose to simulate it :p
 
Lami said:
Hell no! Lol. I'm playing 2016 now ;)
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How are you finding Pes 2016 Lami? My Superstar scripting is easing up a bit and the game is playing fine even though it has limitations. . . .put up a vid Lami let's see you in action.
 
Creation of regens like in FM/NBA 2k is badly needed.
Have x amount of them spawn as free agents every year, and x new are added to youth teams of random teams, as well as the team you play as every season as well.

a new random superstar may be generated in club x, and then can end being bought by the AI team of Barca/Real/etc when it's overall is high enough in a few years game time.
Improve scouting to scout youth teams, judge youth players potential and when they are peaking.

A simple system that could work.
 
What are the chances it's been changed for pes 2018.. I am hoping so i can play Master league and not have it break the immersion.
 
We haven't heard anything about it in any releases or info so I doubt it's changed nor is there any time to do anything about it. Would love to hear otherwise...
 
robbieryan said:
We haven't heard anything about it in any releases or info so I doubt it's changed nor is there any time to do anything about it. Would love to hear otherwise...
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Adam has responded to questions on the subject, saying that it's "fine" as far as he's concerned, but that he's heard more people talk about it this year.

That gives the impression that it's still the same and that it might be on the agenda to change it next year, given that he isn't saying "wait and see" like he is with other new features (e.g. the return of a harder difficulty setting than Superstar).
 
I actually created an account just to vote on this matter (voted that I don't like the current system). I would really like it changed one way or the other, especially seeing regens out of Master League or at least an option to switch it off. Would love to see a realistic youth system with actual young talented players being part of the game and signing for top clubs, that the user would be in a bidding war with.

So hello to you all :BYE: going by this and other threads, Evo Web seems to be a very nice place for a good and sound discussion! Not sure how active I'll be though.
 
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