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pes5 pet hates - warning : rant :

Discussion in 'Pro Evolution Soccer - PC' started by acm2000, 30 December 2005.

  1. acm2000

    acm2000 Guest

    firstly, yes, pes5 is the best footy game we have, don't get me wrong, i like the game, but its no longer as fun as it used to be, they need to make some big changes for once, not just tiny ones, it has so many flaws its unreal, here are some of my pet hates;

    1) the refs - ok, they give to many fouls, i can live with that, its kinda realistic, what i can't live with is the sheer lack of f*cking cards, ive only ever seen 1 red card in the whole time ive being playing PES5, and its damn hard to even get a yellow, its a joke.

    2) the controls - about as responsive as drunk man in a coma, i think its got worse since last years version, the players are as nimble as a rock and control the ball like a 5-a-side OAP side, its appauling.

    3) the movement - since when can players only move in 8 directions with a ball? its deliberatly setup that way to save them from having to make more advanced game mechanics, theres no 'just avoiding a tackle' in this game, its move 1 of 8 directions and hope they didn't choose the same one, pathetic.

    4) the ai - stupider than a coconut, sure they make intelligent runs, trouble is, usually before you even have the ball, so when you finally can pass, they are 2 miles offside and your defenders love to run away from the action, great work.

    5) passing - why is it you can only pass infront of a player, why can't i decide what i want my player to do? i want control of my team, i don't always want to run forward, i don't always want to be pressure insanely by the computer, i want to be able to pass it around to make space, not be forced to pass up field constantly.

    please god konami, in the next gen installment, make this game responsive, fair and intelligent, i wouldn't care if it had graphics like the back end of a horse, aslong as they actually bothered to change the game mechanics, just for once. :(

    ps the reason im only posting this now, is because ive been playing it since it came out, ive played it long enough now to rant fairly about the game, no rushed judgements from just playing the demo or full game for a week.
     
  2. burnside

    burnside ..:: ManUtd R #1!!! ::..

    23 April 2005
    Wales
    Man United
    u have sum fair points in there, i love pes5 but it can make me so frustrated, like wen i break down the wing, cum 2 pass inside the box and the ball just goes forward straight into the goalies hands, annoying! and its a little lame how many simes ur shot will be blocked in a match!
     
  3. Bebeto 94

    Bebeto 94 For the good of the game

    9 November 2002
    Plymouth UK
    Agree with most points except number 1 . It depends on which ref you use , with Ito i rarely get to finish a match as i dont have enough players left on the field i get so many red cards!!!
     
  4. PetrovLFC

    PetrovLFC Raul!

    13 March 2005
    NW London
    Liverpool
    agree on all those points.

    Attacking AI is shite, the Defensive AI is awful too, all they do is send 2 or three people charging round the pitch against you (and they don't tire), or the defensive line is so far back their literally on the goal-line.

    The 8 way movement thing is annoying, but they can't help that really, theres far too many technical limitations to that. Hopefully the next gen consoles will allow for steps in the right direction.

    My pet hate. The fact that the best passing animations (the ones that happen on average twice a game) are far too rare, and they still have the awful toe poke with the wrong foot, and rushed passing animations. And the long ball animations? give me a break, thats how eight year olds kick the ball at the park.

    PES1 was still the best game end of story.

    The crossing, is god damn awful. So predictable, no variation
     
  5. NickD

    NickD Guest

    For me by far the biggest problem (now that Juce has fixed alot of atmosphere) is the defense.

    Every single player will instantly try to attack the ball and tackle.

    Now on a game that prides itself on realistic gameplay this is a joke.

    I uninstalled PES5 and am awaiting the next generation console games so I can get a better port :roll: and maybe just maybe get some realistic gameplay.
     
  6. Bebeto 94

    Bebeto 94 For the good of the game

    9 November 2002
    Plymouth UK
    I am slowly warming to PES5 but still rate PES4 above it .
     
  7. acm2000

    acm2000 Guest

    Bebeto 94: ive tried all the refs, i never get booked let alone red carded, its annoying, but yes, PES4 is a more instantly enjoyable game, PES5 is better in some ways, worse in others, but im sticking with it as its the latest and best looking.

    juce has improved PES5 no end from its original beta crapness
     
  8. Chris Davies

    Chris Davies At least, I think I am Staff

    14 May 2003
    Tranmere Rovers
    PES5\WE9 has put me off these kinds of games for a while, at the moment I'm into Football Manager and loving it. Until a game comes out with the depth of FM and a lot more realistic gameplay, I can't see myself playing PES6 etc... I'm sure I'll buy it and give it a go, but if it's anything like it is now, it won't be in the console for very long.

    The schoolboy mentality of "everyone, let's all run to the ball and try to kick it", the predictability, the "KICK THE BALL, KICK THE FUCKING BALL, I'VE PRESSED THE BUTTON TEN TIMES"-ness of it all...
     
  9. Bebeto 94

    Bebeto 94 For the good of the game

    9 November 2002
    Plymouth UK
    ACM - Totally agree with you mate , as for the refs you want to change you tackling method as i can assure you even with Martin O`Brien i can easily get at least one red card per game . This chart below was taken from a previous thread on refs from PES4 but all of these refs also feature in PES5.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: 1 January 2006
  10. cigol

    cigol League 1

    14 August 2003
    The above chart doesn't take into account the BIAS against the human player.

    and:

    examples of cheating, manipulation et al

    You are through on goal and your player is chasing the ball with defenders either BEHIND or to the SIDE. Should you continue running at the current pace you will pick up the ball in flight and be one on one with the keeper.

    Unfortunately this is Pro Evolution Soccer.

    So what actually happens is that once you make contact with the ball (irregardless of whether it is Castolo or Henry, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho... whoever) the player will suddenly take a route TOWARDS A DEFENDER. So whilst it might make perfect sense to continue with the run straight ahead (the direction you are pushing for with the control stick) what actually happens is the game decides you need to go another way, the longer, more difficult way. In most cases too the first touch and control of the player will become nonexistent and they will run, get the ball, turn in an opposite direction and lose posession because they had no control over it after touching it.

    This happens too often in CRITICAL situations for it to be a coincidence.

    Another example is when you are destined to lose a game. It doesn't matter that your key players (the ones you judge) have a high form/morale arrow. They will still fall under the spell of a blanket attribute manipulation. These kind of games are fairly rare, but when they happen they defy logic and are extremely noticeable.

    Another example is that the opposition teams ALL use the same 'park a coach in front of the goal' tactical deployment - irregardless of the players at their disposal or the team they represent. This severely limits the way you can play the game. It becomes one dimensonal in approach and you'll invariably use the same old routines for scoring goals. The opposition AI on the otherhand doesn't succumb to this problem REGARDLESS of whether or not you set it up in that manner. Your players don't seem to have the same rigid discipline it would seem!

    Another example? How about the classic 'player goes to mark a player already marked'? Not a problem you might say. Happens to the best of them... Okay, so how about 'player goes to mark a player already marked thereby leaving the player he was originally marking unmmarked JUST IN TIME for the crucial pass which sets him up for a goal'?

    Play a game and notice how your players will move AWAY from the intended player the AI wants to pass to. Some liberal and overt use of the manual player control will allow you to negate this SOMEWHAT but you'll be fustrated in your efforts because your anticipation is VERY RARELY rewarded.

    Fullbacks leave their channels openwide, centerbacks cover the fullbacks and the defensive/central midfielders form a pathway for the opposition to run through. For me this is poor AI which is designed to help make the game challenging. Thus it is a form of manipulation I detest. Furthermore in practice it ends up with the defense and mifield leaving gaping holes because by the time they realise they are in the wrong zone they are running back and leaving another player unmarked and the same charade continues.

    Turning on the ball, bringing it into control... conveniently takes half an hour - which is just enough time for the flat flooted defense to catch up.

    Players become static too often.

    Players can very often fail to run when you tell them to UNTIL the oppopsition gets control of the ball you wanted to get.

    Your players slow down once you take control of them - so if your battling for a ball on the wing your player will instantly visably slow down whilst the CPU will not.

    On the subject of speeding up and down the CPU doesn't really care for stamina or pace/acceleration. It is MUCH, MUCH better than prevous PES games but the catch up is still there and in motion.

    Refrees biased towards the CPU. You can get the odd (and I do mean ODD) referee who doesn't adhere to this mantra but it is incredibly rare.

    Loose balls favouring AI. Any loose ball will conveniently make a beeline for the opposition players.

    Your defenders play your opposition strikers onside regardless of tactics setting. And I don't mean ACCIDENTALLY play them on side. I mean ON PURPOSE. In AI breakaways this is very evident.

    This is off the top of my head, I could think of more probably but I think this is bad enough.
     
  11. PetrovLFC

    PetrovLFC Raul!

    13 March 2005
    NW London
    Liverpool
    Agree with all of that Frustratingly awful game. Yes its the best footie game, but thats only because there is ONE serious contender, and even that is a load of arcade rubbish too.

    I fail to see how you can call the game a simulation when Cygan catches up with Eto. You score 2 headers in league season, you score more goals from 30yards out then you do in the box. Or where 3 opposition players constantly press you around the field at superhuman pace and never tire. Or the fact that the AI is so poor that they have to result to cheating to make it challenging. Or the fact that being through on goal and being taken out by the last defender doesn't result in a red card. Or where Chris Perry beats Kluivert in the air 9.5/10

    The demo was a sublime game of football. The defensive line played further up the field (and yes i've tried forcing everyteam to A for the strategy, the strikers made intelligent runs, the crosses usually met the head of player with good position, ala Crespo, or good jumping abillity, ala Corradi. Why did they ruin in? To please the kids, to please the FIFA converts.

    I really need to get my hands on the WE games as I've heard they are better, but they aren't on the PC are they?
     
  12. cigol

    cigol League 1

    14 August 2003
    WE is exactly the same, I have played all varients. It's the spinoffs that are different.
     
  13. NickD

    NickD Guest

    Guys you say you will buy the game even though you know you will not like it.

    PLEASE DON'T! Only your money talks and the only way Konami or any other company of its ilk will want to improve is because of their bottom line.

    DON'T BUY IT UNLESS YOU WANT TO SUPPORT THE DIRECTION!
     
  14. acm2000

    acm2000 Guest

    i haven't bought it, its the first PES ive not paid for, ive bought it since ISS Pro on the PSX (which is its spiritual beginning), all the way through to PES4 on the PC, but this time im not going to bother, and unless the next installment fixes these same flaws which have been with it from the beginning mostly, then i won't be buying that either.

    i agree with everything cigol said too.

    one of my fav footy games has been World League Soccer 98 on the psx/sat/pc, this game gave you full control of shooting and player movement and was great, it later migrated to the dreamcast as world wide soccer and lost its charm in the process (it was fun, but they failed to move the game forward)

    actua soccer series also gave you great control, actua soccer 3 being the best, and last, maybe if someone was to revive this series, we'd have a serious contender to PES, but untill then we only have FIFA, which, as fun as it is for short games, just don't cut it, its nothing like football.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 1 January 2006
  15. scarfo

    scarfo Non-League

    20 June 2004
    What this all boils down to is that they should bring back Sensible Soccer.
     
  16. Bebeto 94

    Bebeto 94 For the good of the game

    9 November 2002
    Plymouth UK
    ....yes , and Match Day too !!!
     
  17. acm2000

    acm2000 Guest

    scarfo: a new sensible soccer is coming out this year, it looks bloody awful :P
     
  18. scarfo

    scarfo Non-League

    20 June 2004
    I'm not talking about a new Sensible Soccer.

    Just box up the Amiga version and sell it on all the next get consoles.

    Sensible World of Soccer was soley responsible for my primary school underachievement and lack of homework.
     
  19. PetrovLFC

    PetrovLFC Raul!

    13 March 2005
    NW London
    Liverpool
    Twas a great game, fun, slick and plenty of depth.

    Starting to get back into PES5 now. Obviously it has limitations. Hardware, games devloperment tech etc etc. Now I switched back to Type 1 long passing, its now a three dimensional game :) Best of the series. Maybe not the slickest and doesn't have bags of entertainment, but theres so much depth to it, and the physics (ball and player) are the best of the lot so far.
     
  20. biker_jim_uk

    biker_jim_uk International

    24 November 2003
    Man City
    you do know you can download Sensi for no cost and play it on your PC right now? Plus if you took ten minutes you'd find updates to this season
     
  21. Bebeto 94

    Bebeto 94 For the good of the game

    9 November 2002
    Plymouth UK
    I have it if anyone wants it . You just nedd to get yourself an Amiga emulator such as winUAE
     
  22. scarfo

    scarfo Non-League

    20 June 2004
    Even better, get GENS and the Mega Drive ROM (I can provide), then you can play online against people.

    Speaking of which... WHO IS UP FOR A SENSI WORLD CUP :D

    I'm serious, if we get 8 we can do it, it would be the most fun ever. Just to make it even better, I can get a Teamspeak server...

    </dream>
     
  23. Artist

    Artist Guest

    I understand your complains but most of them are because you just don´t know how to play the game. You score more goals inside the box then outside of it for sure.. just learn how to use r2... 5 and 6 stars AI cheats, no doubts of that but the greatest PES 5 experience is multiplayer and there is no cheat. Fouls? You make many fouls if you don´t know how to play the game properly. When I started to play the game I had 10 and more fouls per game. Now I finish a game with 1 or 2 fouls without any problem. PES 5 is not an easy game as previous games of the serie were, so you have to pratice and have the right timing in each situation. I score many headers, I score many goals inside the box, I don´t make many fouls.. just practice! And stop complaining.
     
  24. acm2000

    acm2000 Guest

    i win pretty much every game, 4*, 3rd in the league in serie A, lost 1, drawn 3 won 18, i know how to play it, doesn't make it less annoying or have less cheating AI and game mechanics, all my points are valid gameplay flaws, nothing to do with the user of the game, the only goals you ever concede are via AI cheats
     
  25. NickD

    NickD Guest

    The defense is also on crack which means they never hold their ground and instead rush for a tackle in every situation.

    It's indeed very hard to call this a simulation, sad thing is Konami will get away with it and release the same tripe next year and in 4 different boxes.
     
  26. acm2000

    acm2000 Guest

    what are the alternatives?

    FIFA - also always the same, plays nothing like football and is ugly
    This Is Football - even more arcady than FIFA
    International Superstar Soccer - was good on N64, hasn't changed since

    thats it, with EA now owning the UEFA rights (and just about every other sporting license), there'll be no more UEFA Football games (only FIFA rebranded versions)

    f**king great

    with no competition, konami won't bother changing :( some make a cross between PES and actua soccer
     
  27. PetrovLFC

    PetrovLFC Raul!

    13 March 2005
    NW London
    Liverpool
    yep I don't know how to play the game obviously as I've taken Real Sociedad to the WEFA CL :D

    Its got nothing to do with that mate.
     
  28. The best thing you can do is to stop playing the game, its not worth it because it will just piss you off so much, and the game isn't fun playing anymore even if you win constantly , just wait for the next version, that's what I am doing atm
     

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