PES 2019 Discussion Thread (PS4, XB1)

I say PES forget the traditional way of doing things with yearly updates, I think this is a better way that satisfies more players and has the potential to make them more cash and grab more of the market share.

PES2020, use maybe PES13 or even 6 as a base, focus on arcade pickup and play gameplay and myClub, offer 3 years of data updates.

PES2021, maybe use PES19 as a base, focus on true simulation gameplay and maybe a Pro Clubs mode, offer 3 years of data updates

PES2022, use PES 6, 13, 17 or whatever as a base, then focus on excellent AI and maybe Online Master League, offer 3 years of data updates

With this approach, PES can then have three active games on the market for three years each, yet all with up to date teams, kits etc.

All three games offer slightly different gameplay that caters to a different audience.

You're telling me they can't do this? Non-P2P servers on each for three years minimum and PC modders have shown you can edit the gameplay pretty easy, so don't tell me they don't have the time or resources to do this. They do.
 
Pagi84 said:
I say PES forget the traditional way of doing things with yearly updates, I think this is a better way that satisfies more players and has the potential to make them more cash and grab more of the market share.

PES2020, use maybe PES13 or even 6 as a base, focus on arcade pickup and play gameplay and myClub, offer 3 years of data updates.

PES2021, maybe use PES19 as a base, focus on true simulation gameplay and maybe a Pro Clubs mode, offer 3 years of data updates

PES2022, use PES 6, 13, 17 or whatever as a base, then focus on excellent AI and maybe Online Master League, offer 3 years of data updates

With this approach, PES can then have three active games on the market for three years each, yet all with up to date teams, kits etc.

All three games offer slightly different gameplay that caters to a different audience.

You're telling me they can't do this? Non-P2P servers on each for three years minimum and PC modders have shown you can edit the gameplay pretty easy, so don't tell me they don't have the time or resources to do this. They do.
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For another company maybe this would be viable. I can’t see it working for KONAMi, when they need 2-3 months to fix single game-breaking bugs in one game. While in MyClub they do fixes, from the next day to maximum a week.
Don’t believe they can handle 3 separate versions, with full services.
 
slamsoze said:
For another company maybe this would be viable. I can’t see it working for KONAMi, when they need 2-3 months to fix single game-breaking bugs in one game. While in MyClub they do fixes, from the next day to maximum a week.
Don’t believe they can handle 3 separate versions, with full services.
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The simplest way to make happy everyone is add to game slider settings with 3 presets: Simulation, Balanced, Arcade.
With options like:
Players weight.
Stats impact.
Pace.
Tactics impact.
CPU strategy managment.
Ball physics freedom.
Physicality.
Player emotions.

I thinks some of this values or similar could exist now in the game engine because Konami plays with it in every update.
 
amartingil said:
The simplest way to make happy everyone is add to game slider settings with 3 presets: Simulation, Balanced, Arcade.
With options like:
Players weight.
Stats impact.
Pace.
Tactics impact.
CPU strategy managment.
Ball physics freedom.
Physicality.
Player emotions.

I thinks some of this values or similar could exist now in the game engine because Konami plays with it in every update.
Click to expand...
I am the biggest fan of these solutions, especially the split between online and offline non-annual versions . The problem is you can't market easily this type of game, cause the online Myclub/PES league people, although in reality they love the arcade pace, no-fouls, 10-9 scorelines, no interruption, full assisted, they hate the label of "arcade". They prefer living in illusion that it is heavy football sim , where they just bend the rules cause they have awesome skills.
It sounds paradox but that's how i feel it, every time i discuss with such players about gameplay .
You can't tell them straight the truth , that the e-sports pvp games do not represent anything close to real football. They will feel offended.
 
slamsoze said:
I am the biggest fan of these solutions, especially the split between online and offline non-annual versions . The problem is you can't market easily this type of game, cause the online Myclub/PES league people, although in reality they love the arcade pace, no-fouls, 10-9 scorelines, no interruption, full assisted, they hate the label of "arcade". They prefer living in illusion that it is heavy football sim , where they just bend the rules cause they have awesome skills.
It sounds paradox but that's how i feel it, every time i discuss with such players about gameplay .
You can't tell them straight the truth , that the e-sports pvp games do not represent anything close to real football. They will feel offended.
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If the problem is the label, name it whatever you want.
If there is space in ther maket for games like Força Motorsport or Project Cars, there should be for a simulation football aproach.

Try it one year, get data from the players, and then you will know what kind of game they prefer.
I don't know where this Myclubers claim. But here and in whole Pes community forums, People post that they have to play the game in -1/-2 speed or with PA0 to make the gameplay enjoyable.
 
amartingil said:
If the problem is the label, name it whatever you want.
If there is space in ther maket for games like Força Motorsport or Project Cars, there should be for a simulation football aproach.

Try it one year, get data from the players, and then you will know what kind of game they prefer.
I don't know where this Myclubers claim. But here and in whole Pes community forums, People post that they have to play the game in -1/-2 speed or with PA0 to make the gameplay enjoyable.
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Yep, here is different, it is like the lost/last resort for offline players.
If you take a ride to pes reddit, you can read a different agenta, most posts are about MC,spins,MCmanagers, black balls, gold balls etc...
 
slamsoze said:
Yep, here is different, it is like the lost/last resort for offline players.
If you take a ride to pes reddit, you can read a different agenta, most posts are about MC,spins,MCmanagers, black balls, gold balls etc...
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That shows they doesn't care about gameplay. Then, bring them more cheatured players and they'll adapt to any gamestyle aproach.
 
Hi!! I'm done with Pes 2019. i only play ML and this is absolut robbish.. There's no fun to play this game. No fouls, penalties, AI cheating, AI lightning refleks, ball fysics jne... Pes 2018 is better when play ML, of course there's too weaks, but it's better than 2019. And after that new patch every game has , aa hit the post.. My record is 4 straight shots hit the post and same match 2 breakway hit the post...Weather has change too, rain much more than early.
Pes 2020 stay shop, i don't bye it.. :)
 
sir_mamont said:
Hi everybody! Do someone play on Legend difficulty in offline modes? How is it going? Is it playable?
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still on superstar full manual 30 min games.. I tend to be losing 4-3 3-2 . I'm conceding soft goals and then making a comeback late in the game.. Get a lot of fouls but no pens
 
I think i met a bug in Master League. I was managing both a club and a nation, i SIMed fast September until January, cause i came in aggrement with a club from another League. The SIM results were really bad, mostly defeats, but i didn't care, so when the last day of December came, additionally to my predetermined move i also fired. When January began and started setting up in my new club, i checked the schedule cause i had sone World Cup qualification matches, but the National Team was transparent.
It seems that besides my club i got fired from the National team too, although the jobs for Nations are decided in 4th August, they can't fire you in mid season and without a cause.
It is funny cause similar bug happened to me in FM2007, when by resignation by ultimatum from a Nation, i got by bug resigned also from the club i was managing.
 
I've never been one to use the term scripting because I feel it's too vague and overused.

I just played a match in my ML save which I play like a BAL save (I imported my guy from my BAL and put him on Dortmund). I do so because it gives me greater control because the AI is pretty much brain dead at squad building and in match tactical decisions.

It's the first knockout stage of the Champions League and I'm away against Panathinaikos. Like I said I play it like a BAL save so I only control one player.

Via a defensive error I go up 1-0 in the 3rd minute. From that moment on, it was downhill. I didn't feel as agile as I usually do, I don't feel as quick as I usually do. I just felt....off.

My teammates weren't as sharp as they usually are. They just reacted slowly and at times behaved like they stopped working; not passing or shooting when they usually would.

Pana won every challenge and were first to every ball. I'm used to the AI being boosted defensively. That's how Konami makes up for the AI poor positinal awareness defensively. But it felt like they were boosted even further.

After the match I took a look at their squad. No one was faster than 75 speed.

I mention this because, at this point, my guy is pretty broken; he's in his mid 20s and, multiple breakthroughs later, is sporting 99s all over the place. And yet he got chased down constantly. Outmuscled constantly.

And fouled constantly. To the point where he went off injured partway through the second half. So I had to control someone else the remainder of the match.

So I was up 1-0. They scored 10 in match minutes later (I play 20 minute matches). Up until some time in the second half, all of my shots were either blocked or off target. Even the ones where I or my teammates were wide open. Missed every time.

We managed to bundle one in off of a corner and managed another to make it 3-1. And then one long pass over the top of my defense made it 3-2. And then in the 92nd, some tiki taka one touch passes through my backline made it 3-3.

3 shots. 3 goals.

It was an awful match from the second I scored in the 3rd minute. Awful matches happen. I'm not mad at the result. I'm mad at how it happened.

I'm mad at the fact that I felt like I was fighting the controller. I'm mad are the fact my player, with the highest form arrow, was slower, weaker, and less agile than a player with attributes in the 60s.

I'm annoyed at the fact that my teammates played so lethargic despite them all having good form arrows too (besides I don't play anyone who has bad ones).

I'm annoyed at the fact that every single time I play a team vastly inferior to me, it's not fun. Not because I'm bored of smashing a bad team, but because they play above their abilities. Without fail.

I get it. Bad days happen. They should. But that doesn't mean that the opponent always happens to be having the game of their life on the day I happen to be having an off day. And it doesn't mean that everyone collectively on one team is in bad form while everyone on the other team is in good form collectively.

I meanwhat are the form arrows even there for then?

The way this is implemented in PES is just too absolute and too blatant.

RNG means certain dice rolls will go against you. But in PES, too often I see when something is going to go against you, everything is about to go against you.

So apologies for the rant. I needed it to calm down lol
 
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The lowest form of game rigging/manipulation is when it manipulates your input, This a trend that im seeing since the moneymaking modes have been introduced.

Cursor switching

Pass direction

Defensive clearance delay

Players taking a step away from the ball, usually when the AI is about to do it’s low crossed scripted goal or when it’s a cleared ball

Laggy response of 90+ rated players despite playing offline!

It’s a joke really.
 
aderow said:
I've never been one to use the term scripting because I feel it's too vague and overused.

I just played a match in my ML save which I play like a BAL save (I imported my guy from my BAL and put him on Dortmund). I do so because it gives me greater control because the AI is pretty much brain dead at squad building and in match tactical decisions.

It's the first knockout stage of the Champions League and I'm away against Panathinaikos. Like I said I play it like a BAL save so I only control one player.

Via a defensive error I go up 1-0 in the 3rd minute. From that moment on, it was downhill. I didn't feel as agile as I usually do, I don't feel as quick as I usually do. I just felt....off.

My teammates weren't as sharp as they usually are. They just reacted slowly and at times behaved like they stopped working; not passing or shooting when they usually would.

Pana won every challenge and were first to every ball. I'm used to the AI being boosted defensively. That's how Konami makes up for the AI poor positinal awareness defensively. But it felt like they were boosted even further.

After the match I took a look at their squad. No one was faster than 75 speed.

I mention this because, at this point, my guy is pretty broken; he's in his mid 20s and, multiple breakthroughs later, is sporting 99s all over the place. And yet he got chased down constantly. Outmuscled constantly.

And fouled constantly. To the point where he went off injured partway through the second half. So I had to control someone else the remainder of the match.

So I was up 1-0. They scored 10 in match minutes later (I play 20 minute matches). Up until some time in the second half, all of my shots were either blocked or off target. Even the ones where I or my teammates were wide open. Missed every time.

We managed to bundle one in off of a corner and managed another to make it 3-1. And then one long pass over the top of my defense made it 3-2. And then in the 92nd, some tiki taka one touch passes through my backline made it 3-3.

3 shots. 3 goals.

It was an awful match from the second I scored in the 3rd minute. Awful matches happen. I'm not mad at the result. I'm mad at how it happened.

I'm mad at the fact that I felt like I was fighting the controller. I'm mad are the fact my player, with the highest form arrow, was slower, weaker, and less agile than a player with attributes in the 60s.

I'm annoyed at the fact that my teammates played so lethargic despite them all having good form arrows too (besides I don't play anyone who has bad ones).

I'm annoyed at the fact that every single time I play a team vastly inferior to me, it's not fun. Not because I'm bored of smashing a bad team, but because they play above their abilities. Without fail.

I get it. Bad days happen. They should. But that doesn't mean that the opponent always happens to be having the game of their life on the day I happen to be having an off day. And it doesn't mean that everyone collectively on one team is in bad form while everyone on the other team is in good form collectively.

I meanwhat are the form arrows even there for then?

The way this is implemented in PES is just too absolute and too blatant.

RNG means certain dice rolls will go against you. But in PES, too often I see when something is going to go against you, everything is about to go against you.

So apologies for the rant. I needed it to calm down lol
Click to expand...

I think we all know what you are talking about and have been there more than once. I am sometimes at the point where I do not want to score early, because it means that I have to deal with all the shit you describe even longer.

The worst thing about all of this is not that the AI makes you concede cheap goals or somehow cripples you players and constantly makes you blow opportunities to keep things "exciting" and "tight" – the worst thing is that WHEN you score, you cannot tell whether this was because you are good at the game (or improved in it) or simply because some AI-director in the background "allowed" you to score because that goes with the script (literally).
 
Rodchenko said:
I think we all know what you are talking about and have been there more than once. I am sometimes at the point where I do not want to score early, because it means that I have to deal with all the shit you describe even longer.

The worst thing about all of this is not that the AI makes you concede cheap goals or somehow cripples you players and constantly makes you blow opportunities to keep things "exciting" and "tight" – the worst thing is that WHEN you score, you cannot tell whether this was because you are good at the game (or improved in it) or simply because some AI-director in the background "allowed" you to score because that goes with the script (literally).
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Yeh it takes away the magic when you score. Old PES when you scored it felt great , an achievement no matter how . This PES your like Meh even if you score 3 you know the AI will boost itself and score a handful itself.
A few games into my new Belgian League ML and i am getting frustrated already. The first couple of matches were interesting.
My TS is 55 and i swear the game plays better for it until the scripting kicks in the AI score a ridiculous volley into top corner. But for a long period in the games everything felt right , it was hard to attack for both teams and there was a good amount of misplaced passes and fouls and lots of randomness. The shooting was tough and realistic not the tottaly overpowered sh1tfest of goals you normaly get. It needs to play like this as a base and improve when you sign higher rated players. Ditch this TS nonsense Konami.
 
It's a weird thing to be this far into the cycle (this near to E3), and to have next to nothing by way of news for the next edition. I'm hopeful the silence augurs well, as they're just focusing on getting the game – and the launch – right.

But I do have worries. So many things in PES 2019 remain irritants or really bloody annoying. The biggest for me:
  • Super cancel only works intermittently
  • Manual bugs still there (how many years have we had target locking for...? or inability to head a cross, etc.)
  • Woeful teammate AI (own team routinely nicking the ball off you, or running across and deflecting a pass into the opposition, no sense of where to be, fullbacks playing oppo attackers onside, etc.)
  • Reaction time/turning circles too tank-like
  • PA1 still too assisted (certainly not ... "free as a bird"!)
  • Through balls waayyyyy too assisted (such that it regularly chooses the wrong man just because it's a "better" option)
  • PA2-3 not properly filtered out in various game modes and submodes
  • Team ID barely there for offline play (everyone passes like Barca)
  • Formations don't matter enough – hence the many absurd formations online, like the infamous 3-1-6 and others – teams should be annihilated for such idiocy
  • Close control is almost unusable at times – often initiates this weird quick feet animation that has to cycle through for too long, meaning you'll just get tackled.. in those times, it gives you less control
  • Overpowered ball winning stats – tiny players can just run through the back of strong players, and nick the ball without consequence or difficulty
  • Thus, overpowered pressing – where's the risk-reward balance? The stamina changes are good but not effective enough
  • Pitches feel too big – no midfield, games almost always end to end, with acres of space
I'm sure there's loads more! The annoying thing here is that some of these things come about from good ideas just not executed or fine tuned well. Take passing: there's more error this year related to body position, great! But instead of passing on the turn causing the ball to go short, have weird spin, or be fluffed entirely, often it will get smacked 20 yards down the pitch. For a game which overall has pretty good physics, this is just bizarre and so frustrating.

Or take the physicality this year. It's great that players have a real weight to them, that there's a momentum to their movement. But it's overplayed, and sometimes players who should be nifty and have good balance stats, still turn around like tanks and take years to get into position. And when they are, they can be so unresponsive, failing to stick out a foot when the ball is inches away.
 
janguv said:
It's a weird thing to be this far into the cycle (this near to E3), and to have next to nothing by way of news for the next edition. I'm hopeful the silence augurs well, as they're just focusing on getting the game – and the launch – right.

But I do have worries. So many things in PES 2019 remain irritants or really bloody annoying. The biggest for me:

  • Super cancel only works intermittently
    Manual bugs still there (how many years have we had target locking for...? or inability to head a cross, etc.)
    Woeful teammate AI (own team routinely nicking the ball off you, or running across and deflecting a pass into the opposition, no sense of where to be, fullbacks playing oppo attackers onside, etc.)
    Reaction time/turning circles too tank-like
    PA1 still too assisted (certainly not ... "free as a bird"!)
    Through balls waayyyyy too assisted (such that it regularly chooses the wrong man just because it's a "better" option)
    PA2-3 not properly filtered out in various game modes and submodes
    Team ID barely there for offline play (everyone passes like Barca)
    Formations don't matter enough – hence the many absurd formations online, like the infamous 3-1-6 and others – teams should be annihilated for such idiocy
    Close control is almost unusable at times – often initiates this weird quick feet animation that has to cycle through for too long, meaning you'll just get tackled.. in those times, it gives you less control
    Overpowered ball winning stats – tiny players can just run through the back of strong players, and nick the ball without consequence or difficulty
    Thus, overpowered pressing – where's the risk-reward balance? The stamina changes are good but not effective enough
    Pitches feel too big – no midfield, games almost always end to end, with acres of space
I'm sure there's loads more! The annoying thing here is that some of these things come about from good ideas just not executed or fine tuned well. Take passing: there's more error this year related to body position, great! But instead of passing on the turn causing the ball to go short, have weird spin, or be fluffed entirely, often it will get smacked 20 yards down the pitch. For a game which overall has pretty good physics, this is just bizarre and so frustrating.

Or take the physicality this year. It's great that players have a real weight to them, that there's a momentum to their movement. But it's overplayed, and sometimes players who should be nifty and have good balance stats, still turn around like tanks and take years to get into position. And when they are, they can be so unresponsive, failing to stick out a foot when the ball is inches away.
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Agreed 100%. What i noticed after so many seasons already, the shoots and especially the distance shoots which seem broken this year, are dictated by the physics engine, leaving stats with a less than 10% participation. Shooting from distance with Hamsik makes no difference than shooting with a player from Thai-League. What makes the difference is shoot in the proper body stance and with the right stepping, which makes sense as a point, but when body position is the only factor for a good distance shoot, than stats and traits are totally neglected. That's why there used to be players like Gerrard, Lampard, who could score from distance no matter if the circumstamces were ideal or not.
Also for attackes, balance is not the only requirement to score inside the penalty area. There were players like Ronaldo (phainomenon), Van Nistelrooy , Ibrahimovic or even Pipo Inzaghi, who could score a goal even out of balance. For sure a good striker needs balance, but he needs also, instict, vision, luck, streak, SHOT TECHNIQUE (a stat removed since 2011) etc.
Now it is more, pass and shoot to score under the most idealic circumstances or shoot under bad terms and make a flooty ballon pass to the opponenet GK.
 
Furthermore two other conclusion. It seems that the stats since were pressed from 1~99 to the modern 40-99, tend to work a little weird, especially this year.
When i was in ML in League 2 , with most teams 2*~2,5*, the game's tempo was bearable to good in most cases. Even the CPu cheating was less obvious. In EFL where most teams were 3*~3,5* it became a little bit strange, but was kind of smooth again. Now in EPL , the honey moon is finished, most teams are 3,5*~4,5*, the pace in most games is frantic and it seems either i dominate, or i get demolished, there is no average, no sense of match control at all, I.E.: I won Tottenham 4-1, did a 3-3 with Man City (the only game that seemed legit to be honest, although Sterling scored 2 same chip-shots from 30meters!!) and after this i lost 1-4 to Newcastle. You know when things don't work properly in these matches, when you loose 1-4 with shoots 12(9)- 5(4) , possession 60%-40% and the MVP of the match was Newcastle's Goalkeeper!!!!!!

I agree also that the formations are tented useless this year for some reason. The only universal playstyle , is to find a formation that helps you spam (X) passes and 1-2 passes to hold the possession over 55%, even if you are Alcorcon against Barcelona, you cannot even make your fast players work,run or dribble, cause of the catch-up situation.
Until pes2018 i used to manage low national teams, Greece, Honduras and play a 5-3-2 formation, while my ML clubs formation is a 4-2-1-3 or 4-2-3-1. This year i tried with Greece, Honduras and Costa Rica, but with 5-4-1, 5-3-2 formations seems that nothing work, can't make a quick counter attack , cause i do not have enough players in attack to spam passes. In the same time my defense even with hard 5-men defense lines seem to be useless, like i am wasting people there. I had Greece defense line with Torosidis-SOKRATIS-MANOLAS-K. PAPADOPOULOS-Cholebas (CBs as CAP letters) and the most games i conceded 3-4 goals, cause every time CPU was cutting apart my line by displacing one player. For example last night with Costa Rica, i won a ball from an opponent striker, my 3 Cbs and the RB moved forward in a line, leaving the opp. CF off-side, my LB for a reason he only knows, he decided to move to his initial position, backwards!!!!, near the edge of the box,covering the Opp.CF on-side, despite the team was moving forward. The result was i lost the ball immediately, laser one touch passing by COM, and a chip-through ball from the opp.AMF to the opp.CF, who moved all alone, with a LB covering him 20 meters near the corner flag!

So it forces me to play with the National team, the same play-style i play with the Club team, quick tiki-taka , domination passing game. It does not allow any other variety.
 
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Lami said:
Why are you guys torturing yourselves? To expect different outcomes, things must be changed at code level.
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I agree. There a fundamental issues within the engine. How it reads situations and how and which animations it triggers.

Plus there are issues I have with the logic they use in their passing as well as player speed, physicality, defensive awareness, and defensive reaction time.

These are things that can't be changed without a complete overhaul of the code itself.
 
aderow said:
I agree. There a fundamental issues within the engine. How it reads situations and how and which animations it triggers.

Plus there are issues I have with the logic they use in their passing as well as player speed, physicality, defensive awareness, and defensive reaction time.

These are things that can't be changed without a complete overhaul of the code itself.
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But how did the same code worked for pes2017?
At least for the defensive awareness, it was a joy to defend on that game, plus the physical game which made the defense very mental or sneaky if you are a Materazzi-style defender. :)
I mean this was in the same engine too.
 
We are done here; In this thread! ;)

Been reading here every freaking day...
And it’s not worth it anymore. Man, i gave it some time and passion....

...and we are, for sure, the elite!

I came to that conclusion, because I have that strong feeling we freaking CARE!!
About OUR game! The customers game. The fans of the sports game!!
We do freaking care a lot!!! And that makes us all “the elite”!
Be it negative or positive comments, when evo members behave, it’s all good.

Switch over to the 2020*fingerscrossed*PES rumours thread!! You’ll find “elite” friends! ;)

*you might exchange every word including “rea“ with an “u“!
 
PRO_TOO
Im done with it as well, theres been a lot of good discussion on PES19 in here , some great posters with amazing ideas. Only a few months to pes20 and hope. Will i buy it like a mug, Yes . Because when PES gets it right its awesome.
My latest thought on the game would just be a re hash but why does it ALWAYS have to screw you over in 90% of games!
 
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