- Staff
- #9,272
That second one........
I'm ready to slam a door / kick a bin / headbutt a wall.
Not only have you got the ridiculous "win the ball but that's not allowed so now you have to SLIP ON YOUR ARSE", but then you've got the "keeper's got it covered OH WAIT HE'S GOT HOLOGRAPHIC HANDS AFTER THAT TERRIBLE ACCIDENT HE WAS IN, we should really get a new goalkeeper".
I'm seething on your behalf mate, disgraceful.
Chilleverest
League 1
- 6 June 2018
So much for the physics engine. Stuff like above happen in both fifa and pes. Here is my personal vid just to showcase it happens in both games. Mind you, i had this happen in weekend league, a mode where you get selected for regional finals (esport) if you have good enough ranking.
https://gfycat.com/afraidsouramericanquarterhorse
I swear footy games have gone backwards in recent years.
https://gfycat.com/afraidsouramericanquarterhorse
I swear footy games have gone backwards in recent years.
saintric
Premiership
- 9 October 2007
Did laugh at my recent cup game on 2019 in the ML I played Livorno and lost 4-2 but 3 of their goals came from my defenders taking a step backwards before going forwards to close like i originally asked giving the AI a nice clear shot on goal to blast it top corner
played a bit of 2018 tonight very enjoyable a much tighter game that i feel in control of
played a bit of 2018 tonight very enjoyable a much tighter game that i feel in control of
Pretty sure these clipping issues have been since 2016.
IIRC I think it was good in 2015 which was why I was so hyped up for the future of PES.
- Staff
- #9,276
Had a little marathon yesterday and played Pes17, 18, 19 and even F19.
Before properly digging into pes17 ML i wanted to compare them all.
Im not gonna talk about each of them as this is not the place to do it.
Out of them all, without any doubt, 19 feels best on the ball. Its physics, players movements, pace - it just feels fantastic.
One thing tho.
After playing 17, 19 feels a little bit... soft. 17 felt more weighty, not even on the ball, but players felt heavier and clashes were more enjoyable on 17. Nonetheless - 19 on the ball is dogs bollox - just deadly.
Up to more or less final third of the Pitch AI also plays nice, the whole one dimention really starts showing around penalty box and with the finishing (and obviously - AI dribbling is close to non-existent)
But it wasnt too bad. They even scored from outside the box, which had raised my eyebrow. (On that - can we not have goal-less draw every now and again?? Does every match needs drama and goals??)
Anyhow, not too bad, id even say enjoyable till about 80th minute. AI realises there is 10 mins left and they are goal down. So what do they do? They have three cans of redbull, stick a laser pointer up their asses and start passing the ball from midfield to the strikers.
And it literally feels like this
Im sorry, but bottom 3 team having ground passes like this to the striker, missing EVERY single one of my players.. its just wrong. Doesnt feel right, doesnt look right. Shame.
Before properly digging into pes17 ML i wanted to compare them all.
Im not gonna talk about each of them as this is not the place to do it.
Out of them all, without any doubt, 19 feels best on the ball. Its physics, players movements, pace - it just feels fantastic.
One thing tho.
After playing 17, 19 feels a little bit... soft. 17 felt more weighty, not even on the ball, but players felt heavier and clashes were more enjoyable on 17. Nonetheless - 19 on the ball is dogs bollox - just deadly.
Up to more or less final third of the Pitch AI also plays nice, the whole one dimention really starts showing around penalty box and with the finishing (and obviously - AI dribbling is close to non-existent)
But it wasnt too bad. They even scored from outside the box, which had raised my eyebrow. (On that - can we not have goal-less draw every now and again?? Does every match needs drama and goals??)
Anyhow, not too bad, id even say enjoyable till about 80th minute. AI realises there is 10 mins left and they are goal down. So what do they do? They have three cans of redbull, stick a laser pointer up their asses and start passing the ball from midfield to the strikers.
And it literally feels like this
Im sorry, but bottom 3 team having ground passes like this to the striker, missing EVERY single one of my players.. its just wrong. Doesnt feel right, doesnt look right. Shame.
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Yes, maybe the translated meaning of myst is a lit bit different in german. So sorry for the irritation. Inconsistant and hardly measureable is exalctly what i wanted to express, i would add "unreliable" to this list. In the end, exhibition and tournament/league games shared the same problems on PES2017.
Enlighted by our conversation i tried superstar level on PES2019 again. The gap to legend is immense, especially when it comes to AI defending and pressure. I can pick the worst team imaginable and play against the european elite, i never feel like being dominated and there is plenty of space to build up and go through on goal. I can imagine that this "realistic resistance" on legend is watering down the CPU-going-wild-script, as it is more constant through 90minutes and not as artificial as on superstar.
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- Staff
- #9,278
So, in your opinion, is it ok to play against, lets say, Kilmarnock and being constantly under pressure from them, throughout 90mins, like it is on Legend?
Whats the difference between Kilmarnock and Real then?
And (I know that you dont play league/cup/ML, nonetheless they are main modes for people playing offline) how are people supposed to play any offline mode, if you have constant, unrealistic pressure from every single team on Legend and "wild script" below?
Pes19 is simply unballanced, unfinished and very simplified when it comes to AI.
Of course i am playing league and cups (just no ML) and i am referring to them.
It is crystal clear that PES no nowhere near as balanced as it could and should be. But if have the choice, i will pick the more demanding gameplay over the dumbed down thing every day. A low team pressuring over 90 minutes is as unrealistic as Barcelona watching you bombing their box with a second division team. But in PES2018/PES2019 i have the choice, at least.
Best thing i could think of is some sort of hybrid between superstar and legend, taking the more measured CPU attacks from superstar (without CPU hyperboosts) and adapting the CPU midfield awareness from legend. At least to the day when the AI can bring teams to life in a scalable difficulty set.
It is crystal clear that PES no nowhere near as balanced as it could and should be. But if have the choice, i will pick the more demanding gameplay over the dumbed down thing every day. A low team pressuring over 90 minutes is as unrealistic as Barcelona watching you bombing their box with a second division team. But in PES2018/PES2019 i have the choice, at least.
Best thing i could think of is some sort of hybrid between superstar and legend, taking the more measured CPU attacks from superstar (without CPU hyperboosts) and adapting the CPU midfield awareness from legend. At least to the day when the AI can bring teams to life in a scalable difficulty set.
- Staff
- #9,280
This is why I'm always saying "it's entirely personal preference". I mean, of course you wouldn't play a game you knew that you were going to win before you'd even kicked off, what's the point.
But by the same token, a person doesn't have to play a football game. My attitude isn't "well, it's really hard, so I'll make the most of it" - it's... "Well, this doesn't represent reality on any level, why would I play this just because it's difficult? If my players could only run at half-speed, that'd be a challenge too - but it wouldn't be fun, would it? Neither is this, 'difficult' doesn't equal 'fun'."
But for some, it clearly does. I see Fulham passing like Man City and I just can't carry on playing, it's not football, it's something else. But that's just my personal preference. I'm lucky in that I can play PES 2017 on Superstar and be challenged, and I'm enjoying the other game too (entirely thanks to sliders - I'd be pretty miserable without them).
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The last two years it was always a tough thing comparing FIFA (on sliders) and PES, and its mostly down to the animations and the resulting flow of gameplay which made me preferring PES for the last two years. When it comes to difficulty, both games share the same problem: If you want it to be really challenging, you have to limit yourself or give superpower to the CPU.
- Staff
- #9,282
The flow is beautiful, for the human team. In local multiplayer it's great, no doubt. But when have we ever been able to say "wow, PES is terrible with friends"? Literally never. So that's never changed.
It's all about what you can't stand, rather than what you love. If it was about what we love, I'd be playing the hell out of PES 2019 because that flow and those ball physics are delicious - but no part of me is okay watching a terrible team play like Barcelona. No matter what, I just can't get past that.
They could beat me by playing ten in defence and hitting me on the counter - sure. But by playing like Man City? What's the point in there being an actual Man City then? What's the point calling teams Fulham and Man City if they both play like Man City? They may as well be Team A and Team B.
It may as well be an entirely fictional team with entirely fictional players - but then you'd still be playing Man City 38 times a season in a 20-team league. So I don't get the point of playing the game at all (against the AI).
This has been my complaint with PES (along with locked-on passes and no error) since FIFA showed that freedom is possible - and yet, perversely, if I go back to the older games, the "every team plays like Barcelona" feel is nowhere near as bad as it is now.
I'll never forget receiving PES 2018, editing all Man City's players to have the lowest attributes possible, and finding literally no difference in A) their goalkeeping, B) the competency and fluidity of their passing, and C) their finishing. (Footage of which you can find in the PES 2018 review I did.)
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I still wonder why the whole individual player feeling couldn´t be translated from the PS2 games. I suppose it is somewhere linked to whole process of motion capturing etc. While the PS2 game were more schematic (pixel dots moving at a certain speed, with a certain acceleration etc., to say it in an exaggarated way) everything has now to fit into a few different animation processes. That makes the game look more lifelike, but limits the individual values unfolding to the extent of the classic games.
That is one of the few explanations i have for the decreased ratio in stats and team styles. Although it really makes a difference (on legend) if you are playing against a top or low team. And i can´t remember any football game that translated the ugliness and danger of a low team well to a game without overpowering them.
That is one of the few explanations i have for the decreased ratio in stats and team styles. Although it really makes a difference (on legend) if you are playing against a top or low team. And i can´t remember any football game that translated the ugliness and danger of a low team well to a game without overpowering them.
is that the problem with individuality or is the problem that Konami believes that faces are the be all and end all to fantastic individuality
Thiago Maycon
Apaixonado por PES
PRO_TOO
Team Heffernan
ThomasGOAL
Retired Footballer
- 15 March 2003
- Staff
- #9,288
I dont MIND (as much) every team playing like Barcelona, if my difficulty level is high enough. What I do mind is every team playing the same
And thats where, at the end of the day - Pes19 collapses and does not get up.
Thats the difference between Pes19 and every other Pes I ever played (even Pes18).
And im not even talking about team ID here. Im talking about players. As much as they dumbed down Player ID over the years, even in Pes18 there was still difference between them.
You saw @rockstrongo replay with Icardi.
I remember playing Parma against Napoli and Hamsik destroying me the whole time.
Pes19 has literally - none of that (or all of that, depending how you look at it).
Good players dont dribble, good players dont shoot from distance, good players dont stand out by an inch, comparing to all other players on the pitch.
If all teams played same way, but good players made a difference - that would be ok for me. If I played Man City and knew I have to keep a close eye on Aguero, or against Chelsea Id be scared of Hazard. That would be ok.
But if you have every single team playing exactly the same way, scoring exactly the same goals, and all players are able to have surgical pass with top shelf finish - thats unacceptable.
And thats where, at the end of the day - Pes19 collapses and does not get up.
Thats the difference between Pes19 and every other Pes I ever played (even Pes18).
And im not even talking about team ID here. Im talking about players. As much as they dumbed down Player ID over the years, even in Pes18 there was still difference between them.
You saw @rockstrongo replay with Icardi.
I remember playing Parma against Napoli and Hamsik destroying me the whole time.
Pes19 has literally - none of that (or all of that, depending how you look at it).
Good players dont dribble, good players dont shoot from distance, good players dont stand out by an inch, comparing to all other players on the pitch.
If all teams played same way, but good players made a difference - that would be ok for me. If I played Man City and knew I have to keep a close eye on Aguero, or against Chelsea Id be scared of Hazard. That would be ok.
But if you have every single team playing exactly the same way, scoring exactly the same goals, and all players are able to have surgical pass with top shelf finish - thats unacceptable.
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
So true,both paragraphs.
I want to be scared/keep an eye out for Icardi/Immobile/Piatek/Suso.
Not having a 69 ovr player scoring a hattrick out of the blue.
Or lose to a 67 ovr FC Zürich with my 85 ovr Milan ,and not having possession all game long
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Thiago Maycon
Apaixonado por PES
- Staff
- #9,292
I've just been looking up reviews of ISS PE and the sequel on the original PlayStation, and found this page where the guy reckons PES5 is (paraphrasing) full of catch-up logic, and only allows you to progress up the field via passing overkill.
I'm not saying I agree, but it's really got me thinking. I've never really compared the two...
Live updates are usually deployed alongside patches without issue.
I imagine it's just that the one data guy they employ has gone on holiday...
Madmac79
Champions League
- 11 September 2006
That description is completely off, at least in regards of the stats not playing their role in the game. Defence was op for a number of reasons (referee whistling at small collisions, defenders having more contrasts animations, CPU effectively playing with a parked bus the 99% of the time, change of directions clunky) but you could still feel speedsters and technical guys super legitimately.
Chuny
-
- 11 December 2007
I'd say I agree and I'd go as far as saying all PES versions are based on the same logic bar a few of them.
Even my beloved 2013 is.
The difference is that in PES 2013 you had extra speed-bursts (removed from 2014 onwards) that, when timed right, could let you get away from the opposition.
It's due to the international break, they never do live updates during those weeks.
chiefrocka4real
Champions League
Noticed the catchup problem in PES 2014.
I don´t know how it´s been on 2015 and 2016, as I skipped those two.
But never really had a problem with it from 2017 on.
When the timing is right, I can get away with a fast player.
The only thing that´s a problem is, when you change your direction a tiny bit while sprinting.
Cause then, that one animation kicks in which slows you down and then you have no chance to get away.
At this moment, this game is quite an on and off thing.
The FA cup and EL final matches a couple of days ago, have been one of the best I ever had in this game.
Finished the season on the 5th place with Stoke, tried to win the double, but lost against ManU 1:2 in the FA cup.
That game was so intense, but I just couldn´t win. A lot of misplaced shots that had me thrilled.
Very intense and I loved it anyway. Didn´t feel cheated.
Then EL final came up against AS Rome and I wanted to win at least that one.
Very very tight game, both teams had good chances. It was tough getting through their defense.
And then, somewhere in the 75th minute, I have the chance for a counter attack and passed a long ball to Bailey, my fast right winger. Poulsen, my center striker runs forward ready to receive the ball. Bailey stops, passes to the center from the right and Poulsen shoots it in the bottom right corner. This one made me yell as it looked so cool how the GK was wrong footed expecting the shot to the left corner. Wish I had saved it.
Then yesterday I had two national team matches after the end of the season which were kinda meh.
But maybe because the season is over and maybe I wasn´t really keen on playing PES in the first place.
I don´t play it much, but I always come back for a couple of matches.
I don´t know how it´s been on 2015 and 2016, as I skipped those two.
But never really had a problem with it from 2017 on.
When the timing is right, I can get away with a fast player.
The only thing that´s a problem is, when you change your direction a tiny bit while sprinting.
Cause then, that one animation kicks in which slows you down and then you have no chance to get away.
At this moment, this game is quite an on and off thing.
The FA cup and EL final matches a couple of days ago, have been one of the best I ever had in this game.
Finished the season on the 5th place with Stoke, tried to win the double, but lost against ManU 1:2 in the FA cup.
That game was so intense, but I just couldn´t win. A lot of misplaced shots that had me thrilled.
Very intense and I loved it anyway. Didn´t feel cheated.
Then EL final came up against AS Rome and I wanted to win at least that one.
Very very tight game, both teams had good chances. It was tough getting through their defense.
And then, somewhere in the 75th minute, I have the chance for a counter attack and passed a long ball to Bailey, my fast right winger. Poulsen, my center striker runs forward ready to receive the ball. Bailey stops, passes to the center from the right and Poulsen shoots it in the bottom right corner. This one made me yell as it looked so cool how the GK was wrong footed expecting the shot to the left corner. Wish I had saved it.
Then yesterday I had two national team matches after the end of the season which were kinda meh.
But maybe because the season is over and maybe I wasn´t really keen on playing PES in the first place.
I don´t play it much, but I always come back for a couple of matches.
- Staff
- #9,297
Jeez, you are one of the few really positive posters left who still really loves PES 2019 I think - if you're starting to get burned out by it, then I know for sure that last patch has done something bad to the game...
PRO_TOO
Team Heffernan
@chiefrocka4realJeez, you are one of the few really positive posters left who still really loves PES 2019 I think - if you're starting to get burned out by it, then I know for sure that last patch has done something bad to the game...
if you really want to feel the mood, get the vibes...
chiefrocka4real
Champions League
Jeez, you are one of the few really positive posters left who still really loves PES 2019 I think - if you're starting to get burned out by it, then I know for sure that last patch has done something bad to the game...
I don´t know if I could say I love it
.It´s really fun playing a match and continue my ML once in a while.
All the negative feedback coming from other users on here...most of it I understand and agree to it.
But a) I play the PC version totally modded out (Evo Switcher, Gameplay patch, GFX MOD, etc) and hardly touched the PS4 version in the recent time. Could have saved my money on here.
And b), I play a lot of other games in between (just discovered Rainbow 6 Siege for myself), but sometimes I feel like playing some football and fire up PES.
For a couple of matches I can overlook the flaws of it. The one that upsets me the most is the poor foul system.
My player gets pushed or tackled, but the foul is called against me by the ref and I guess the problem is:
The system doesn´t check the first touch, only the last one.
For example: AI hits my player in a classic header duel, runs from behind towards my player and jumps up for a header. Pushes my player hard, but stumbles over him as he is in his way. So the stumbling gets counted, but not the push at first.
So as I said, for a couple of matches it´s okay.
But if I´d play the crap out of it, it might turn me down sooner or later, I guess.
The negatives would outweigh the positives.
At least that´s my guess.
But still for me as a casual offline player, the positives weigh a tiny bit more. FUMA goals still feel rewarding and I´m glad I´m not alone.
Kudos to @PRO_TOO
.I´m playing this until I don´t feel it no more.
Jeez, you are one of the few really positive posters left who still really loves PES 2019 I think - if you're starting to get burned out by it, then I know for sure that last patch has done something bad to the game...
Chief´s commentary didn´t sound like a love declaration to me. I think everybody in here sees the glaring issues and the tons of unused potential which Konami doesn´t activate for a certain reason.
As a consumer who just wants to play the best suiting football game available, you have to select one of EAs or Konami´s products thrown at the market in the last years (unless you get completely exotic). Little differences in expectations and preferences can decide if you put PES2019 or PES5 in your machine. After all, on full manual and with toned down stats PES2019 does the best job of transporting football feeling to me. But i am surely not "in love" with it, as there still so much sloppy work in it.