PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

I think people who say the videos are irrelevant isn't giving enough respect to the people who spent time capturing the footage and posting them online.

The videos are there for people to see how the game plays as it is provided by Konami at this time. It is what it is.

There are good things and there are bad things. While it's great to see the improved animation and small touches like the player picking up the ball before a throw-in, it is just disappointing to see the same problems show up year after year.

Many of us has been here before, "don't judge it based on videos." Yet we all know that usually at this point, the game isn't gonna change dramatically with a month or so left before release.

It's pretty clear there are glaring flaws with the demo at gamescom, and it will be interesting to see what all the people in denial say after the demo is out for download.
 
Unfortunately 'do not judge it on videos' and 'there is a much better version that only a lucky few have seen, trust me it is great' tropes/excuses are now sadly an annual ritual in the PES community.
 
Ivan Yakov said:
Look everyone knows that if playtesters really slated the game they got to play before release they would NEVER be invited back. No offense guys, but I take all these impressions with a massive pinch of salt - and I don't think anyone should be offended at that attitude.
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No, I am offended at that attitude. There are, I'm sure, cases where this would be true... but I don't feel that way at all. I care more about telling the truth than I do about being invited both - I want both naturally.

http://forum.ea.com/uk/posts/list/711510.page
http://forum.ea.com/uk/posts/list/838063.page

These are two of my previews from playtests of FIFA 12. I slated the game pretty heavily, I think you'll agree. I have no problem with slating a game. I try to represent the game as honestly as possible. It's that simple. Will I pick up every little problem in a few hours? No. I do my best. That's all any of us can do.
 
I have to question the motives of some of the newer members, their arguments are pretty nonsensical. It may be best to ignore them.
 
Rodelero said:
You've lost your mind. We were not there in a QA capacity. We were not there to bugtest. We were there to play the game, to experience it as deeply as possible, and to give our impressions. That was my aim, I stand by that aim, and I stand by the impressions I wrote.

I was not, in any way, there to list bugs. Nor, incidentally, would you be able to write a 'book' in a few hours of play and a few hours of watching someone else play. Stop being quite so insolent, and at the very least wait for the bloody demo before making such outlandishly stupid claims.
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In that case you should stop calling yourselves playtesters and be called something else like pre-release viral marketing agents. I think you SHOULD be there in a QA capacity, not a traditional QA/software testing capacity because obviously that is impossible given the time-frames, but assuring the quality of the product in the eyes of the community by making sure the most prominent gameplay issues get the attention they deserve.

Software testers are very good at finding objective problems with the game, for example: "in certain situations when taking a corner the game gets stuck", that is something I would not expect a community tester to pick up on because it is too situational. Things I would expect the community playtesters to pick up on are broader gameplay issues that may be missed by the software testers, more subjective issues that can't be classified as a bug in a programmatic sense but rather something that needs modifying to improve the realism and playability of the game.

Obviously the issues are there because we all see them when the videos get released, so either they weren't in the build you played which is possible but too often comes up as an excuse in both games, or you are simply not picking up on them, downplaying them or assuring people it's nothing to worry about which in my opinion is the worst aspect of this playtester scheme because as I said before it suppresses genuine concerns, meaning the reviews don't just end up being not helpful they end up being completely counter-productive.

http://forum.ea.com/uk/posts/list/711510.page
http://forum.ea.com/uk/posts/list/838063.page

These are two of my previews from playtests of FIFA 12. I slated the game pretty heavily, I think you'll agree. I have no problem with slating a game. I try to represent the game as honestly as possible. It's that simple. Will I pick up every little problem in a few hours? No. I do my best. That's all any of us can do.
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That is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Very detailed critical reviews that highlight the key areas that need to be addressed, I haven't seen that sort of review from PES playtesters or might I add from the majority of FIFA testers in previous years.
 
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retronym said:
In that case you should stop calling yourselves playtesters and be called something else like pre-release viral marketing agents.
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Will you stop saying that? I told you before that if you think this forum is a place for viral marketing then you are seriously wrong.

I'm not quite sure why you keep going in circles. I've already told you the difference between what we did and what bug testers are. You know that as well. We did our best to report on everything without bias. And if you've been on here enough you would know Rom and Rod are far from being biased. We've got nothing in it for us. We just say it as it is.

And like I told you, we will have a feedback thread opened soon to report bugs and improvements. The demo will be out in about 6 days. Not long to go now. Go ahead and test it yourself then, and report your results in the feedback thread.

We've got nothing more to say anymore regarding this.
 
Here is a short video where captain obvious himself is pointing out that every pass triggers a forward run. And this did not happen in trailers or in the play testing from other builds (otherwise we'd know about them already). And just for thick people: THE CPU DOES IT TOO! :SMUG:

YouTube - PES 2012 Gamescom forward runs

Edit: Noticed Adam on WENB says it's only because the guy in this video pressed forward run EVERY SINGLE TIME. Yeah right, this happens in EVERY video. I am not going to do this bollocks for every video, it's not that hard to look for yourselves. That guy is thick.
 
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retronym said:
In that case you should stop calling yourselves playtesters and be called something else like pre-release viral marketing agents. I think you SHOULD be there in a QA capacity, not a traditional QA/software testing capacity because obviously that is impossible given the time-frames, but assuring the quality of the product in the eyes of the community by making sure the most prominent gameplay issues get the attention they deserve.

Software testers are very good at finding objective problems with the game, for example: "in certain situations when taking a corner the game gets stuck", that is something I would not expect a community tester to pick up on because it is too situational. Things I would expect the community playtesters to pick up on are broader gameplay issues that may be missed by the software testers, more subjective issues that can't be classified as a bug in a programmatic sense but rather something that needs modifying to improve the realism and playability of the game.

Obviously the issues are there because we all see them when the videos get released, so either they weren't in the build you played which is possible but too often comes up as an excuse in both games, or you are simply not picking up on them, downplaying them or assuring people it's nothing to worry about which in my opinion is the worst aspect of this playtester scheme because as I said before it suppresses genuine concerns, meaning the reviews don't just end up being not helpful they end up being completely counter-productive.
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I'm afraid I can't quite fit "Pre Release", but otherwise, my transformation has been completed. You sir, have discovered me. I, the Viral Marketing Agent, who has set about manipulating the dweebs of Evo-Web.

That is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Very detailed critical reviews that highlight the key areas that need to be addressed, I haven't seen that sort of review from PES playtesters or might I add from the majority of FIFA testers in previous years.
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Well I didn't have a particularly different objective when I did my impression for PES - just I felt it didn't need to be criticised as much, and that it's moving quite swiftly in the right direction. I still made it fairly clear which areas could be improved upon, and listed a number of criticisms.

The thing is, a lot of the things you see in these videos simply weren't apparent in the build I played. A lot of them are caused by the people playing - some may be bugs (like this strange 'always-running-forward-after-the-pass'). The build is newer, some things are better, some are worse, naturally.

Just be a bit patient. One week 'til you have the demo. At that point we can all tests for faults to our heart's content. Watching poorly shot videos of poorly playing players is not going to help. This build clearly has a really quite large bug with the player runs (as shown by the video above) - so please give a little more benefit of the doubt until the game is out.
 
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Gab_ said:
Here is a short video where captain obvious himself is pointing out that every pass triggers a forward run. And this did not happen in trailers or in the play testing from other builds (otherwise we'd know about them already). And just for thick people: THE CPU DOES IT TOO! :SMUG:

YouTube - PES 2012 Gamescom forward runs

It's supposed to have comments on top, but I can't see them. Oh well, maybe it's my settings or youtube is just broken.
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Good video. Thanks for this. Some proof to show doubters what we've been saying.
 
Ooh dear, I retract my earlier statement about it most likely being player runs. If the AI's doing it then that's not at all good.

Nevertheless, some people on here are sounding like they've already bought the petrol ready to set their copy of PES2012 on fire, lets not get ahead of ourselves. Just wait for the demo and see what's what. I severely doubt that'll happen in that or the final version, like Jimmy says it would be against the way Konami have been taking the series lately.

Deep breath, chill out until next week.
 
LTFC said:
Ooh dear, I retract my earlier statement about it most likely being player runs. If the AI's doing it then that's not at all good.

Nevertheless, some people on here are sounding like they've already bought the petrol ready to set their copy of PES2012 on fire, lets not get ahead of ourselves. Just wait for the demo and see what's what. I severely doubt that'll happen in that or the final version, like Jimmy says it would be against the way Konami have been taking the series lately.

Deep breath, chill out until next week.
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Precisely. There is certainly something wrong in that build. No denying it in my opinion. But, it 100% wasn't the case in the build I played, and I'm 99% sure it won't be the case in the demo, or the final build... and that's all that matters. Apparently final build is OK;
 
Hey Lami, on the ball jogging animation, the player's foot doesn't go through the ball anymore like last year right?
 
Problem is that the Asim guy with final version (it seems) didn't see anything wrong with the gamescom videos, just like Adam. But I trust in Seabass.
 
ezosk said:
Check gamersyde, there's another 60 fps gameplay vid available

http://gamersyde.com/stream_pro_evolution_soccer_2012_gc_showfloor_gameplay_2-22961_en.html
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Man I can't enjoy the videos now, all I see are those stupid runs haha. Look at the central defenders when they pass the ball, they start sprinting up the pitch 4-5 meters until they realize that they have to get back in position.

Edit: sometimes even 10-20 meter leaving a open gap to counter attack in. Horrible.
 
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