PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Couple of nice things I noticed from all these videos:

- Pitches look nice ;)
- Noticed a defensive midfielder actively dropping back into the hole to cover other players who had made forward runs - big tick :)
- I liked the look of some shots that missed. They went wide but not overly high or floaty :)
 
Perfect square nets after they had removed them for no apparent reason years ago, they are now back! However, as someone on here mentioned, nets are not solid white. From far, they look transparent. What the crap is wrong with these guys???

I don't wat invisible nets...I want solid white nets!!!!!

Aghhhh! I give up.
 
retronym said:
my main gripe is with the animation and physics when dribbling not individuality, of course you can't make a firm judgment on individuality based on a video because you need the controller in your hand.

but in terms of how the players LOOK when dribbling it really is "that absurd", pretty much everyone has noticed it which in my mind is pretty strong evidence its something you guys should have also noticed and got the dev team to look at, now its simply too late nothing can be changed at this point.

it just looks horrible, and because its one of the animations you see the most that is pretty detrimental to the visual realism of the game. you cant really say that the issues are overblown or you need to wait until you play it, people have said that same argument every year since pes 2008 i never thought id see critics like yourself coming out with it too. unless the youtube compression is distorting the animations as well that is exactly how it will be in the final game.

p.s. im only speaking about dribbling animations, a lot of the other animations are improved but this problem should NOT have slipped through
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I've watched that video, and I've seen the gif. Neither are particularly worth a mention - certainly not to the actually quite funny extent that you have been going spare about it. The ridiculous amount of time and effort spent by Rod and I talking about the gameplay, and how you simply don't notice the animation flaws nearly as much when actually playing, should make it obvious why. Combined of course with the extent to which people have said that this year is not particularly about animations. Which has of course been talked about over the past two months now.

If you play this game with a clear head (as I sadly don't think you'll be able to, now it sounds like the beginnings of a crusade), and you give animation issues like this anything like as much attention as the past couple of pages, then that's a tragic waste of a copy of PES 2012.

Again, it is a non-issue in gameplay terms, seeing as Puyol and Pique there are not dribbling in a way that would threaten a defence or elude many challenges. It's not something that our feedback would have changed, and in gameplay terms it's not something that needs changing beyond the one line I gave (for example) to say that maybe lower end dribblers could be a bit more cumbersome.

That is all I can be arsed to say, particularly given how silly comments are getting re: playtesters letting anyone down or any such bullshit. Jesus fucking wept.
 
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romagnoli said:
I've watched that video, and I've seen the gif. Neither are particularly worth a mention - certainly not to the actually quite funny extent that you have been going spare about it. The ridiculous amount of time and effort spent by Rod and I talking about the gameplay, and how you simply don't notice the animation flaws nearly as much when actually playing, should make it obvious why. Combined of course with the extent to which people have said that this year is not particularly about animations. Which has of course been talked about over the past two months now.

If you play this game with a clear head (as I sadly don't think you'll be able to, now it sounds like the beginnings of a crusade), and you give animation issues like this anything like as much attention as the past couple of pages, then that's a tragic waste of a copy of PES 2012.

Again, it is a non-issue in gameplay terms, seeing as Puyol and Pique there are not dribbling in a way that would threaten a defence or elude many challenges. It's not something that our feedback would have changed, and in gameplay terms it's not something that needs changing beyond the one line I gave (for example) to say that maybe lower end dribblers could be a bit more cumbersome.

That is all I can be arsed to say, particularly given how silly comments are getting re: playtesters letting anyone down or any such bullshit. Jesus fucking wept.
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Not sure what the argument has been until now, just joined in, but i for one am not upset about nor bothered by the animation. I still think the game looks sick and am going to play it to death.

However, i think some make a valid point, it still appears that when players run straight with the ball that there is a rubber band effect. It doesn't look natural. Same thing in Pes2011. Doesn't appear to have been fixed. It's as if the ball and player animations are connected. The ball doesn't appear to be "free".
 
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Ivan Yakov said:
I just noticed this on a PES2012 video - awful, awful defensive line. FIFA gets slaughtered for such things...

defensivelinepes.jpg
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What are you talking about??? Have you ever played soccer/football have you ever learned how to be a defender and what positioning they have? One guy pressures one cover on each side and a deep probably playing a more sweeper position and watching for the runs.
 
tobi said:
To those that have played the game, is the running with the ball animation as bad as that?
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I wouldn't really call it bad mate. It's not perfect obviously but it surely isn't as bad as it looks here. Maybe its because when your playing you concentrate more on the play at hand and as long as it feels right then that's what matters, compared to just looking at it. You have to also take into consideration fps of that video and game speed setting, maybe making it look worse.

Again, its not perfect, but its not as bad as it looks.
crapsoccer said:
ezit tru that ?
the game will have
bacalona & weal madid
again this year :))
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:?
 
Uurgh what's with the nitpicky nuts that pulled up to the thread?
I also have a problem with CBs playing touch and go but that is obviously the player that's doing that - not the AI. Thinking otherwise is just plain stupidity.
 
It is isn't it. Watching these videos and seeing how every time a player passes he bombs forward is making me doubt myself, as I don't recall that happening. Can't help but think their finger is stuck on L1.
 
Lami said:
It is isn't it. Watching these videos and seeing how every time a player passes he bombs forward is making me doubt myself, as I don't recall that happening. Can't help but think their finger is stuck on L1.
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Yeah, i can not believe this weird style of play is also shown in prorevo.tv :FAIL: . If this is their play of style i hope they stop giving feedback to konami :JAY:

But it is like every footage we see "pass-run forward" stuff.. even for cpu controlled player.
 
CurryWasShott said:
What are you talking about??? Have you ever played soccer/football have you ever learned how to be a defender and what positioning they have? One guy pressures one cover on each side and a deep probably playing a more sweeper position and watching for the runs.
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Really - that is Man Utd with a 4-4-2 and the player is the full back Evra. Since when did full backs drop deeper than centre backs genius? A sweeper system as Man Utd - I don't think so.

Look the full back (Evra) is badly out of position - sorry but what else can be said? I'm not saying anything more than that so settle down.
 
Ivan Yakov said:
Really - that is Man Utd with a 4-4-2 and the player is the full back Evra. Since when did full backs drop deeper than centre backs genius? A sweeper system as Man Utd - I don't think so.

Look the full back (Evra) is badly out of position - sorry but what else can be said? I'm not saying anything more than that so settle down.
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He's not waaaay out of position but yes a little it was probably that the ai noticed that that pressuring guy was getting beat so dropped him back just incase he gets through then he can quickly cut inside and stop him.

Plus some teams with a flat back 4 use different pressuring styles that style there they just call the nike swoop cause it looks like the nike swoop real teams do this its not in the formation setup its not in anything you can control. Real teams use this and it works so they put it in the game.

My soccer team we change it between the nike swoop and a sorta zig zag shape depending on where the ball is and if i am wrong tell me where you think he should be to make it work.
 
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on the proevotv Man U v Milan video

Nice pass at about 1:11

Don't like the half bicycle kick at 1:26 (annoyed me how many times that happened in 2011)

I'm guessing AC milan is the cpu so it was pretty cool watching Robinho try to take him with stepovers at 2:35 and other times such as at 4:12

:FAIL: by user at 5:26 :LOL:

I know Ibra has a really high shot power stat, but that doesn't mean that every shot he takes should be a laser beam.

Glad to see Berba's challenge get a red at 10:35. Could have gotten away with it in 2011 sadly. Only a wish of mine that will never happen in FIFA or PES, but that tackle should have started a fight.

animations are clearly smoother than 2011's but could always be better.

Excited for this game after watching a noob who didn't learn from what he was seeing getting owned through the 90.
 
Lami said:
Hmmm.. :THINK:
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I noticed that when a defender runs forward that he stops and tracks back if you dont give him the ball again. We should all the play the demo next week and try out various tactic settings etc and come up with our own views before we start losing the plot lol

The point of an active AI is that they provide passing options and don't stand still. Sure, you don't want them running like mad to go forward for the sake of it but let's play around with the sliders for player support etc and see how it impacts it.

I'm still seeing new things on PES 2011 (in a good way) when I play it so I don't think it's fair to start writing off PES 2012 on a couple of video's lol. It's looking good to me :)
 
praying-mantis32 said:
on the proevotv Man U v Milan video

Nice pass at about 1:11

Don't like the half bicycle kick at 1:26 (annoyed me how many times that happened in 2011)

I'm guessing AC milan is the cpu so it was pretty cool watching Robinho try to take him with stepovers at 2:35 and other times such as at 4:12

:FAIL: by user at 5:26 :LOL:

I know Ibra has a really high shot power stat, but that doesn't mean that every shot he takes should be a laser beam.

Glad to see Berba's challenge get a red at 10:35. Could have gotten away with it in 2011 sadly. Only a wish of mine that will never happen in FIFA or PES, but that tackle should have started a fight.

animations are clearly smoother than 2011's but could always be better.

Excited for this game after watching a noob who didn't learn from what he was seeing getting owned through the 90.
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There was also a really nice dragback first touch about 40 yards out from goal (shooting to the right) early on. I think it was Man U but I can't remember. Looked like a really nice change of direction.
 
Looking at Man U - Milan video; the pass and bomb forward is my only concern. As far as I can see it happens every pass and with all players, even CBs and DMs. This may not have been so obvious in a playtest as your eyes follow the ball instead of the player who has just passed, or it may of course be new in this code. Certainly needs to be raised though.

Apart from that loving the AI. Seems to defend and attack well. Player individuality looking good. First player to be booked; Van Bommel for a crunching slide tackle, later on we see another nasty slide tackle from who else but Gatusso, Robinho with his stepovers. Saw a couple of AI players use shoulder feints too, so looks like AI will use more tricks this year which is great.
 
darthexarkunpl said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ni-3iYsL5Y
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This CPU game is really impressive to me, had to watch it again this morning. Pato and Robinho always try to trick their opponents and you can notice that the guy playing the game starts to back off a bit because he knows he can be skinned. That's how it should be, the uncertainty of what will happen next when players like that have the ball.

Really like the part, fairly early, where Ibra has the ball outside the penalty box, goes down for what looks like a left footed shot, but then turns back up, tricking almost 3 defenders and goes for a right footed shot over the bar. Looks really good.

Abate doing a nice run with the ball too, never doing stupid things like in 2011, but always knows where the opponents are and have good solutions to what to do next.

I just know I will be raped by the CPU in the beginning too, because it plays really well. Hopefully we have some lesser skilled teams to play with in the demo to see if the CPU is "cheating" and play like Barca with bad teams too or if it actually play worse with them.

The problem like people pointed out it that the AI does too many forward runs after they pass the ball, both for CPU and human players. I don't think everyone playing the game does the pass-and-go, it seems to be automatic since the CPU does it too, even with defenders. It seemed to stop doing it though when the CPU changed tactics to defend the lead in the end of the game. Maybe they played all out attack up until then? Hopefully that's the reason.
 
In my playtest I have always noticed full backs running forward most of the time, while others just tried finding space. For example, I can't remember seeing Busquets in the box, he was always in the middle of the park open to receive a pass. If every player in my team was bombing forward then I'd never have anyone to pass to in midfield or even pass it back. I couldn't have played patient football then.
 
Lami did you play longer halves than they do in the videos? I'm thinking if it's like PES always is, that shorter games have much more frantic pace and behaviors. Since no one of the playtester reported back on this as an issue I don't have any worries about it really. Even if they bomb forward a lot, they often stop after 4-5 meters and track back into position (or someone else goes back and covers for them).

Oh yeah, nice detail in the game is when the CPU controlled player of the human team goes back to the goal line when the keeper is far out, even though it still resulted in a goal, but he was close to save the ball as a second keeper. Maybe the AI did that in 2011 too, I just never saw it.

Ball really bounces good now, great bounces when hitting the pitch and posts. Used to look wonky but now it behaves very realistic.
 
Lami said:
In my playtest I have always noticed full backs running forward most of the time, while others just tried finding space. For example, I can't remember seeing Busquets in the box, he was always in the middle of the park open to receive a pass. If every player in my team was bombing forward then I'd never have anyone to pass to in midfield or even pass it back. I couldn't have played patient football then.
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Its going to be crazy then. would lead to very fast paced games. *All players bombing forward, lose possession, opposition players bombing forward. * I hope this is 1-2 pass spamming (L1), otherwise would be nightmare. Fullbacks can bomb forward, but not on the expense of losing defensive positions.
 
But it's not a case of everyone in the team bombing forward, but the player who passes always does, when often he should just pass and hold his position.
And fair enough, it may not have been so prevelant in playtest code but it's undeniable that its happening with the code at gamescom.

Good thing that we get an early demo though so we can judge for ourselves. This pass and rush will be the first thing I look out for. Just hope they manage to correctly sort the good feedback from the bad feedback this year.
 
Lami said:
In my playtest I have always noticed full backs running forward most of the time, while others just tried finding space. For example, I can't remember seeing Busquets in the box, he was always in the middle of the park open to receive a pass. If every player in my team was bombing forward then I'd never have anyone to pass to in midfield or even pass it back. I couldn't have played patient football then.
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Exactly. There is absolutely no way that we missed this stuff when we played it. It's not something even half subtle - we would have noticed this immediately.

It's either caused by the players, or there is something wrong with the build. If it's the former, no problem. If it's the latter, and it could be, it does seem to be happening quite a bit with the CPU, you can only imagine it would get fixed/already has been fixed. Only a week to wait.

I'm worried like many of you - but I know that it was fine in the build I played - and a large part of me believes it will be in the demo, and final release.
 
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I wonder if any news will filter about:

- edit mode
- the most up to date (final?) code that was available to interviewers at Gamescom

To Gab: Yeah the player would track back to the line and cover for the keeper in PES 2011 whenever appropriate. Looks really good. Have had them block a couple of shots too ;)
 
Gab_ said:
Lami did you play longer halves than they do in the videos? I'm thinking if it's like PES always is, that shorter games have much more frantic pace and behaviors. Since no one of the playtester reported back on this as an issue I don't have any worries about it really. Even if they bomb forward a lot, they often stop after 4-5 meters and track back into position (or someone else goes back and covers for them).
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I've played a couple 10 minute games and the rest were 15 minutes.

vivek1412 said:
Its going to be crazy then. would lead to very fast paced games. *All players bombing forward, lose possession, opposition players bombing forward. * I hope this is 1-2 pass spamming (L1), otherwise would be nightmare. Fullbacks can bomb forward, but not on the expense of losing defensive positions.
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You can always adjust your tactics though using the presets. You can switch to a defensive role once you lose the ball for example, or even tighten up the midfield etc.

It's not a problem at all imo. Just a bit exaggerated in here from watching these videos mostly played by people who dive straight in and not bother setting up anything, and play direct always sprinting football.

ollywolly said:
But it's not a case of everyone in the team bombing forward, but the player who passes always does, when often he should just pass and hold his position.
And fair enough, it may not have been so prevelant in playtest code but it's undeniable that its happening with the code at gamescom.
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Tbh I wouldn't everyone to pass and hold their positions, I prefer them finding space for me to pass it back or I'll have create something myself.

I'm not quite sure what exactly is the issue though, maybe Konami have upped it a bit. Maybe the teams we've seen are playing offensive strategies. Best thing is trying the demo next week, not long to go now. Test the hell out of it.

Rodelero said:
Exactly. There is absolutely no way that we missed this stuff when we played it. Either the players are causing it, or Konami have broken something between the builds which you'd have to assume they'd fix because it's a really big issue if they don't.
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I'm thinking the same but I can't imagine them doing that. Why would they do so if feedback was mostly positive across the board and none mentioned it as a problem?

I'd be really surprised if they did change or break it. But lets just be patient and go for the demo. This way everyone can try it themselves and see what they think.
 
Jamezinho said:
There was the option to do so in PES2011 so I would expect this to be the case in 2012 too.

I will be turning it off that's for sure, as I did last year.
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Hope they allow you to turn off the name above the AI player. Really pisses me off.

I really don't understand Konami's decision with regard to hud and player info. Who thinks that keeping the underside of the screen next to the radar (where nothing really happens anyway) clean but then make a complete mess of the actual action by adding a shot power bar, a stamina bar and possibly 2 bloody names all across the players is a good thing!

It looks so poor, just give us the option! Was one of the reasons I found 11 difficult aswell, as I refused to have the stupid powerbar under my player, so I never really knew how much power I was placing in shots and passes. Made it feel more organic to play (as everything was about knowing my player and timing my button press), but still not the optimum situation.
 
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Lami (or any other playtester), can you confirm whether stamina affects players more than it did last year? You could have a player clearly knackered with no energy, bring on a sub and wouldn't notice much of a difference. And if there was a difference, it should've been more obvious.
 
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