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PES 2011 v's PES 6 + PES 2010

Discussion in 'Pro Evolution Soccer' started by Jimmy G-Force, 3 September 2010.

  1. Jimmy G-Force

    Jimmy G-Force Resident PES Fanman

    13 April 2003
    Darlington
    Middlesbrough F.C.
    PES 2011 v's PES 6 + PES 2010


    After playing four 15 minutes games last night against my son on PES 6 for the Xbox 360 (he is 14 years old, and knows his football and his way around PES )I thought I'd give a little feedback on how I feel it stacks up in relation to PES 2010 and the PES 2011 beta that I played. It's been a long time since I have put any real time into one of the old gen PES games, and there was alot of things I noticed, good and bad.

    Firstly, there is no first touch of any real substance, that suprised me, I assumed it was always there, just on a lesser scale, but it certainly isnt. Konami, in hindsight, introduced it to PES 2009, and then massively emphasised it with PES 2010. In fact, that was the first thing I noticed with the PES 2010 demo, it stood out a mile. The start of the move to a more indepth simulated approach. Every player in PES 6 pretty much has the same first touch, regardless of whether they are a defender or midfielder. The only real difference is the top players take it better on the drop, but thats just due to a seperate animation, and not really statistical technique, its just a slight illusion thats created. The cumbersome nature of a defender isnt replicated like it is in PES 2010 or PES 2011. It does seem more obvious in PES 2010 because of the poor slow rigid animation, but it is equally apparent in PES 2011, it's just that the animations are so much more fluid, but the end result is the same.

    When people talk about next gen animations being not up to the old gen, I can fully appreciate this now. The animations were better in PES 6 than they were in PES 2009 and PES 2010, alot more fluid, and alot more varied. Obviously the graphics were not a patch on next gen, but the animations surpassed them. What I can say though is that, even with such an early beta code, it's very clear that PES 2011 will be a big step above the old gen animations, and combined with the stunning graphics, will be easily the most gorgeous looking PES to date.

    Onto the passing side of the game. PES 6 is certainly much easier to pick up and play than PES 2010 and PES 2011, it all felt very easy. It wasnt assisted Fifa easy, but I didnt feel it was far off. The passing was alot more accurate, alot more assisted, and I cant remember actually making a pass that didnt go exactly where I intended it to. Is this a good thing ? Yes if you want a more arcade style, flowing game, but it wasnt really for me. I prefer a more realistic, simulated approach. PES 2010 was alot deeper, overall alot harder, it required alot more time and patience to learn how it worked. This could prove very frustrating, especially as Rom mentioned if you have become accustomed to Fifa's semi-auto system, or PES 6 easy arcadish approach. I can see how alot of people were put off by PES 2010, but after playing PES 6, I can clearly see just how much more simulated they looked to take the series.

    PES 2011 is a completely different ball-game again in the passing department, lending alot to Fifa's semi-auto system, but most importantly making the player statistics evident. No longer can you just aim in specific area of the pitch and assume the ball will meet it's intended target. You need to be more specific with your aim, hence the reason the analogue stick, for the first time in PES history, is a must. The ability to be able to play a pass short, or even misplace a short 8 yard pass directional wise because you have took your mind off the game is there. A higher degree of concentration is required at all times in PES 2011, such is the margin of potential error. For every perfectly directed and weighted through-ball, there is a larger scope of human and AI error. It's not just AI error that you would get in PES 2010, you actually feel it's either your fault or the respective players fault due to his statistical passing attributes, or lack of. On the flip side of that coin, any great vision you exert is incredibly satisfying as you feel it's down soley to your skill and knowledge of the player your controlling. This has never been the case in any prior PES.

    The one feature that instantly stood out in PES 6, which beats PES 2010 and from what I've seen in PES 2011, is the way the ball bobbles on the pitch. Also the height in which a hard press of the X can generate. This looks more realistic in PES 6 than it does in PES 2010 and PES 2011 so far. I really liked the way the ball moved in PES 6, and I hope come the final release that PES 2011 can a little closer to this. The weight of the pass in PES 6 was nice, but not very varied, it was either slow or fast, with not that much in between. PES 2010 has a much more varied approach in this regard, but is soley player statistic based. PES 2011 has this statistic influence dumbed down a little more, but alot of this is down the the semi-auto system it now uses, which puts more control in the users hands. I still noticed in PES 2011, that players with a higher passing speed stat could still ping it harder on full power, than a player with a lower passing speed stat with the same power applied. So it isnt as prominent in PES 2011 as PES 2010, but like I say, it's because now you have a higher level of control.

    Manual passing on PES 2010 was pretty much broke. Apart from a straight pass down the line, you couldnt find an alternate direction with any real level of consistency. PES 6 was suprisingly alot more accurate than PES 2010, but it still was far from perfect. PES 2011 on the other hand, was by far the best yet with regards control. We still need more directions, there is no doubt about that, but now in PES 2011 it's a very lethal weapon to add to your arsenal, and much more consistent. High passes in PES 6 were good, as were lobbed through-balls, but again, very assisted. PES 2010 was alot more simulated, and reflected the consistency of its real-life counterpart, but with that comes a level of frustration. Especially if you prefer the PES 6 approach, or the Fifa and PES 2011 semi-auto system. Like Rom mentioned, it's a different way of simulating. In PES 2010 its all about the player stats first and foremost, which is realistic. But it is also realistic in a different way with the new system because of the level of freedom, and ability to place the ball where you want, subject to your skill and the players attributes. There is no question, the more 'fun' is in the latter, no matter how hardcore you are.

    The goalkeepers in PES 6 are outstanding, no question. But I do personally feel they have to be, as it is so easy to get from one end of the pitch to the other. The AI, even on Top Player, is light years away from PES 2010 and PES 2011. I believe if the keepers were not as good as they are in PES 6, you would end up with rugby scores as opposed to realistic football scores. When I hear people cry out for the PES 6 keepers in next gen, I dont agree. They are too good alot of time, and thats not as realistic as seeing the odd fumble, parry etc etc. PES 2010 had good keepers, but they were let down by silly parries sometimes. There is a fine line here, we still need the 'Robert Green' element in place, it adds to the drama, and keeps the game real. I dont think it's possible to see any of these type of sporadic mistakes in PES 6, the keepers seem to hold onto pretty much everything. Any shot in real life that has a decent level of power, from around the 20 yard mark, is invariably going to produce a parry, you very rarely see a keeper hold onto a shot like that. This needs to be replicated. From what I have seen so far in PES 2011, the keepers looked solid, they were great shot-stoppers, and when they parried, it generally wasnt spilled in front of them. The only issue I had was the really easy things, such as not picking up the ball when it was at their feet. But this was obviously minor bugs that by all reports have been addressed.


    PES 2010 on Top Player had a very stubborn and tight defensive AI, all over the pitch. This resulted in alot of midfield battles if the players were not looking to spam the footballing gods of the game. Defences were very hard to break down, and really, it was a very hardcore approach. PES 2011 is different, as it required alot more skill in defending. You need excellent timing, as there is alot less AI assistance in this regard. It must be said though, I only sampled PES 2011 on Regular AI, so this will differ. Either way, alot more skill will be needed compared to PES 2010 and PES 6, due to the fact there is a much higher level of angles and the inclusion of the jockey/retreat system. You can also add into the equation that you can no longer just sprint towards a player and take the ball off his foot. We now have the physical battles that will be stat related, and the ability to merely side-step an oncoming challenge.

    The referee's in PES 6 seem to be pretty much spot on for me, red cards when required, but not too card happy with the lesser challenges. PES 2010 they were basically blind or paid off. PES 2011 they are alot better, but they do still need tweaking, not enough red cards for professional fouls. But again, that has been addressed and was already mentioned prior to us receiving the beta demo.

    PES 6 online is flawless, just like offline. It's crazy how Konami have fallen off track in the next gen era in this regard. Fingers crossed that PES 2011 will be stable. In my experience with the beta, the majority of games were fine, no issues. You did get slowdown now and again, but thankfully it wasnt the dreaded button lag from PES 2010. For me thats a cheating way of covering lag. The game moves smooth enough, but the button lag can be extremely frustrating. If I'm going to have any sort of lag, then I'd prefer a bit of slowdown instead, at least that doesnt massively effect your gameplay. The plus side of the online Beta demo was that for the first time ever, I could play people from the States with no real issues.

    I think the shooting in PES 6 basically falls inline with the game itself, arcadey but stat relevant. I'm not sure if any of you have ever noticed the way Konami tweak their shooting from year to year with regards how much power you need to apply to get the same result. But in PES 6, it was like PES 2011 power application wise. Konami alternate from year to year to keep us on our toes. For example PES 5 required more power, PES 6 less of a depress. PES 2008 more power, PES 2009 less again. PES 2010 more power, then finally PES 2011 less again. If you have become acustom to the power level required in PES 2010, then you will find that you will be blasting the ball miles over the bar when you first play it, you just need to adjust.

    Individuality in PES 6 is so much less the PES 2010 and PES 2011. Especially things like player response, agility, other foot usage. Konami have come on leaps and bounds in this area, especially with the addition of the Player Cards. Players move and turn very easily in PES 6, some people may like this, but after experiencing a much more realistic approach in PES 2010 and PES 2011, I dont. There is so much more emphasis now on the individual players, their respective make-ups, and traits. Next Gen PES is light years ahead of old gen PES, in every single conceivable individual area.

    I'll conclude by saying I actually enjoyed PES 6, I didnt really think I would, it's very easy to just pick up and play. It was just great fun, and I think I'll keep playing it till the PES 2011 demo lands. It's far from a simulation of football in comparison to PES 2010 and PES 2011, but it's still good fun for a kickabout.

    I captured some highlights last night on my Iphone from a couple of the PES 6 games myself and my son played. My son scored the first goal with Rooney on a red in our first game. I then played as Athletico Madrid to his Roma. The last clip shows a quite brilliant double save, and I love the keeper animation for the second save. I hope you like the music, I figured it was relevant to the waiting game we are currently all enduring. ;)

    YouTube - PES 6 Revisited
     
  2. IIHUII

    IIHUII Banned

    3 September 2010
    Good post, but I hope that you realize that PES 6 for Xbox 360 and PES 6 for PS2 / PC are very different. PES 6 for PS2/PC is way, way better!
     
  3. Keith Houchen

    Keith Houchen League 2

    8 November 2006
    'PES6 for the Xbox360' - are you sure? That looks a lot like the old-gen version to me. You actually say it is the old-gen version...? If so I think you should edit the post to take out the misleading intro. PES6 for the Xbox 360 and PES6 for the PS2/Xbox/PC are two totally different games.
     
  4. Jimmy G-Force

    Jimmy G-Force Resident PES Fanman

    13 April 2003
    Darlington
    Middlesbrough F.C.
    Strange, I played the PES 6 PS2 version yesterday as well and felt very little difference. The visuals were alot poorer on the PS2 though as it couldnt seem to handle my 50" HD T.V.
     
  5. henrys hand

    henrys hand Premiership

    2 September 2010
    I too would say that there must be a considerable difference, just watching that video, how easy it is to go through the defense simply because the defense-players totally miss you when engaging says to me that it can't be similar to the ps2-versions.

    Granted I play only PES 5 for xbox1 on xbox360, but years ago I played PES 6 on PS2 and it wasn't so challengeless.
     
  6. Northzzz

    Northzzz Classified Information

    26 March 2010
    Radlands
    MU
    I don't know if you saw this but i decided to play PES6 the other day and wrote a couple of points about the game. After about 5-6 15 minute matches v top player AI.



    I'm still adamant that PES6 is overrated. (xbox 360 version)

    1a Shots have no power on them (unless it's Adriano
    1b. Shots with power don't stay low (unless it's Adriano
    2. That players attacking a ball with a header have a bigger advantage than a defender (especially from corners). Sometimes even though i'd positioned my defender in front of the striker they didn't react.
    3. Players react much slower than Pes 5 when they receive the ball
    4. You can't beat a man for pace because you can't push the ball. The only way to do it is run to the side or backwards and stop and then turn. That's something i really liked in PES5, you stop wait for the attacker to commit to a tackle and then push the ball past him and away you go.
    5. Defending doesn't require timing for pressing the conservative tackle button, it's more like spamming it like Fifa.
    6. You can't give away trip fouls (which were a big part of why PES 5 needed precise timing when tackling). So again like point 5 timing isn't needed.
    7. When trying to get a 1-2 going/manually getting a player to run forward it requires you to press LB/LT just after playing a pass to a teammate. The player who passed won't make a forward run until just after your team-mate has received the ball.
    8. Scoring just feels hard but not in a skillful way, more a random way. Shots, both close range and long range, don't really travel with pace and it's really hard to place a ball into the corner with the finesse control. Goalkeepers aren't overly good but they do react much faster to your shots and often make the goal look smaller because of these factors. Apart from one long shot i scored with Gygax where the goalkeeper tried to jump straight in the air and save it with his right hand even though the ball was closer to his left.
    9. Reaction times are really daunting although i've kind of already mentioned that
    10. There's no real battle between two players when battling for the ball side by side.

    On the plus side the pace of the game is nice and it does promote you to pass the ball around more rather than sprint constantly (which is a nice detriment if you overuse it). I had fun playing a world cup with Switzerland.
    __________________
     
  7. Keith Houchen

    Keith Houchen League 2

    8 November 2006
    Next time you get a chance, it'd clear it up if you could check which version it is. I've played a lot of the 360 version lately and that doesn't look like it. The players are 'boxy' and move and shoot in the old-gen way that we all know so well. The lack of pitchside Xbox360 advertising boards clinches it. I'd bet a reasonably large amount of money that you played the old Xbox version on the 360.
     
  8. Northzzz

    Northzzz Classified Information

    26 March 2010
    Radlands
    MU
    Although I would like to point out that despite all of those flaws i probably still prefer it to PES 2011. If solely for the pure rigidness of animations of PES 2011 in comparison to PES 6.

    I even tested it out. A match of PSG V Nancy Lorraine on both games. 1-0 to Nancy in PES 6 and 2-2 in PES 2010. I must say that the more enjoyable game was my 1-0 loss in PES 6 despite annoyances in both games.

    The PES 2010 was spoilt by the fact that we both had about 3 shots on target each and both scored 2 (suspect goalkeeping and defending from them and them scoring two headers from crosses) where as in the other game it was spoilt by the fact I had about 12 shots on target but because shooting is so damn difficult (see your point on the GK's being really good and mine about the inability to put power on shots with anybody but the superstars) I didn't even look like scoring. I don't really mind not scoring but if i lose i'd prefer it to be because i was outplayed.
     
  9. Northzzz

    Northzzz Classified Information

    26 March 2010
    Radlands
    MU
    There is no original xbox version of the game. PS2, XBOX 360, PSP, PC & DS only.


    Can i have that reasonably large amount of money?
     
  10. Jimmy G-Force

    Jimmy G-Force Resident PES Fanman

    13 April 2003
    Darlington
    Middlesbrough F.C.
    It's 100% the Xbox 360 version, I bought it on Wednesday for £2. Maybe it's the video ??

    And yes Northzz spotted that bud, I agree on most but not all. I think the players are way too responsive, they turn far too easily. I played it again last night and that will be the last time, for both PS2 and Xbox 360. They are both just very bland compared to PES 2010 and PES 2011 in my opinion.
     
  11. Keith Houchen

    Keith Houchen League 2

    8 November 2006
    Ah, okay, I'm mistaken all ends up - particularly with there being no PES6 on original Xbox... I'd have only bet about £20, as I'm forever getting stuff like that wrong in public on teh internet and my instincts tell me to rein it in.

    I agree with most of the assessment of PES6 on 360 by the way - but it's still the version whose gameplay I've enjoyed the most on the next-gen consoles. PES2010 would probably be my favourite next-gen PES so far solely due to its new Master League. I'm salivating at the prospect of PES2011.
     
  12. dannyfc2

    dannyfc2 Premiership

    9 June 2009
    I played PES6 on PC for about 18 months after it's release, than the 360 version for 6 months after that.

    From what I remember there was a difference and it took me a while to adapt to the 360 one. The game speed was noticeably a lot quicker and turns more responsive on the 360 version, seemed more end-to-end than the PC one.

    Graphically it was sharper but not exactly better, the player models seemed slimmer and less unique between players. It was all about brighter and more up glammed up as well.
     
  13. henrys hand

    henrys hand Premiership

    2 September 2010
    That's what I also think, there is a considerable gameplay-difference between PES 6 on xbox360 and PES 6 on PS2/PC, the latter being superior imho with more challenge, better defense-AI and more individuality.
     
  14. trebel

    trebel Champions League

    10 December 2005
    Great read man but this one thing I can do without... it is a videogame after all. At the point we are at with video games, its just not possible to play real life simulation of a sport mapped down to an analog stick and a couple of buttons. So it wouldn't be fun or fair to see these cheap ugly goals go in. And Green's mistake really is something I've never seen before and if it has, its a 0.0001% chance of happening.

    I feel the same way about the diving aspect. That crap, no matter how real (and repulsive) it is, should never ever exist in a game. A fantastic sport infected with a human being's lust to win no matter how deceitful he is.
     
    Last edited: 5 September 2010
  15. eastinflatables

    eastinflatables Non-League

    24 August 2010
    I too would say that there must be a considerable difference, just watching that video, how easy it is to go through the defense simply because the defense-players totally miss you when engaging says to me that it can't be similar to the ps2-versions.
     
  16. Northzzz

    Northzzz Classified Information

    26 March 2010
    Radlands
    MU
    I just played PES6 online. It wasn't lag free at all.

    I had 2 games that i suppose were lag free but still it was nowhere near as responsive as offline.

    I remember selling this game because of online annoyances. I think it's a faux pas to say it is 'flawless'. 2 out of 4 games i played had clear button lag.

    Had a nice time v some Brazil exploiter with his CB's pushed as far back as he could playing 5 strikers :CONFUSE: Turns out he didn't need a midfield (fifa?) and really because of the button lag i couldn't respond quick enough to block his passes even though i was fully aware what was happening. That was a bad game.

    At least it was quite indicative of why i don't miss playing online.
     
    Last edited: 10 September 2010
  17. Jimmy G-Force

    Jimmy G-Force Resident PES Fanman

    13 April 2003
    Darlington
    Middlesbrough F.C.
    I can only state on my own experience, and it was completely flawless in 4 games. Maybe you should consider getting rid up your dial-up modem ? :LOL:
     
  18. Northzzz

    Northzzz Classified Information

    26 March 2010
    Radlands
    MU
    I'm too attached to 56kbps

    I guess it's not really laggy, i've only had 1 game so far where it was really laggy. I think it is running how it is meant to but it's still more unresponsive than offline.

    I do find it fun to play this game but i don't think it's just me it's affecting. I mean defending on both sides is just odd and unconventional. I think it's down to a slight unreponsiveness (call it button lag or whatever) so tackling doesn't really work as it does offline. Defending is almost non existant so i've noticed that instead my opponents just put their 4 defenders as far back as possible in a bid to crowd the box and to be honest it works. Really none of my opponents tackle my players they just try to get them in the way.

    It feels like a battle online compared to offline sadly. I enjoy the battle but it's like i'm having to play against the game rather than play it.

    I actually think a lot of my gripes aren't to do with lag but the regular AI actually.

    Plus i'm getting annoyed with Ronaldo and Adriano. I'm sure they can't shoot off target. I lost 3-1 having had 12 shots 10 on target and the other guy having 5 shots. He also had 9 men :S. The box was so crowded so i found it hard to do anything whilst he just counter attacked with Ronaldo, Adriano, Kaka and Ronaldinho.
     
    Last edited: 11 September 2010
  19. Northzzz

    Northzzz Classified Information

    26 March 2010
    Radlands
    MU
    Also in addition to the points raised above about struggling when theres too many players in the box, i've just remember how i always used to say that PES6 = Counter Attacks.

    It's so difficult to win even when you boss the game because too many players get in the way of each other. It's both that your own players turn to shit when they have to play really short passes, the way the opponent doesn't need to time tackles and there's an automated way that a player won't shoot or pass in the direction you want if another player happens to be in the way. Rather than shoot on goal and it hit an opponent it seems like your own player will just try to shoot round him even if there's no chance it'll go on target. I remember this from when i originally played the game.

    I score more when i'm not bossing the game. That's just weird. I had a 4-4 draw (Marseille v Man Utd) where every goal was basically a counter attack.

    I am getting a bit annoyed having 20 shots 10+ on target and struggling to score more than 1 because all the players get in the way of each other in my opponents final third. I'm bossing the game completely but i'm not being rewarded.

    A game just gone (Benfica v Juventus) finished with me having 24 shots 12 on target but scoring just before 90 minutes and then again just before penalties to win 2-1. My opponent had 5 shots 2 on target and surprisingly scored from a counter attack.

    - GK's cover the whole goal.
    - It's too easy to get from one end of the pitch to the other (which is also why counter attacks are so easy). The midfield matters the least out of any PES game i've played
    - I feel so out of control of my players shooting accuracy to the point where i don't think you can aim. It's way too stats driven which might be why it feels like Adriano and Ronaldo can't shoot off target.
    - Tackling requires no skill. It's basically just keep hold of the A button kind of like Fifa is now. Players rarely ever screw up tackles so congestion is made even more difficult to deal with. Some of the response issues i'm having aren't helped when my player won't move quicker than the defender tries to tackle him.

    EDIT

    - I know i raised this point before but shooting is so automated. I can't aim my shots at all. Also the quality of the shot has very little to do with whether or not it ends up being a goal IMO. Playing as Olympiakos v Man Utd i definitely did not notice any discernable differences between Rooney's shots compared to Konstantiou but Rooneys shots where way more likely to end up in the back of the net. It feels like a cheap way of making that striker better and/or the GK act worse in that situation. He doesn't technically have better shots, it doesn't feel like Rooney's shot are even that good it's just they're more likely to go in because it's Rooney. I feel that way with Fifa 10. It's like a way of balancing the game so better players score more often.

    It feels like a massive detriment to be a worse team even though i can get into positions to shoot way more than my opponent. That's just battling against the game.

    I actually think this PES feels like the bad parts of FIFA. It's novice/exploit friendly. It's a pretty aggravating game really which is a shame because underneath it because it does have good qualities.
     
    Last edited: 11 September 2010

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