PES 2011: The most incomplete PES since PES 2008

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BillBillson

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12 January 2009
After many analyses of the game, I have come to the conclusion that PES 2011 is the most incomplete unfinished product that Konami have released since the woeful PES 2008. But this time around, Konami have learned a lesson in releasing unfinished products in that they have nerfed the attacking elements of the game in order to conceal its major short-comings.

There are a great amount of ropey features in PES 2011.

  • The auto-switch is so broke, that it forces the player to use 'assisted' (which is still shit).
  • Lofted passes and manual passes behave very inconsistently.
  • Lofted through ball takes into account position of defenders and tends to play even the most obvious easy balls more into the defenders path.
  • The R2/RT 'fast turn' results in slow clumsy turn and ball bouncing about 1.5 metre away from player.
  • The unnatural clumsy first touches and stops/pauses exhibited by attackers when receiving ball which serve to allow defenders to catch up and/or to spurn shooting opportunities.

The list indeed could go on and on. But by far the most criminal deliberate nerfing of the game is in the shooting. Now I understand that a great variety of factors are affecting the shooting this time around, such as player positioning in relation to ball, the fact that releasing sprint button to momentarily slow player down results in a better shot, and all the different 'after touch' affects that can be applied in between activating shoot button and the player actually striking the ball. However, the margin for error that the game allows (for all but the most legendary players such (Ibrahimovic, Messi etc) is far too tight, which makes controlling the shooting and getting away good solid well placed shots a bit of a nightmare. Indeed, I am sure those of you who play with teams other than Barca are very well acquainted with the soft floaty lob to knowhere that your strikers often 'unleash' when steaming towards goal with only the keeper to beat. for many, it is the single most game destroying issue with PES 2011.

So why have Konami released the game with the shooting in the state? In order to hide the shockingly incomplete and broked keeper AI of course! If we were able to shoot on goal in PES 2011 like we could in any previous PES release, we would be getting cricket scores. Instead, Konami have nerfed the shooting so much, that the sweet spot of perfection is a pubic hair wide, that 9/10 times our shots can never be quite what we were looking for (regardless of how good we know the shooting system mechanics). Combine this with all the other cheap ways in which the AI conspires against attackers in AI and to the untrained eye, there is the illusion of a well oiled tight AI footie game......which in reality...is yet another incomplete broken mess from Konami.
 
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It's a good game held back by a few issues.

It's nowhere near 2008 levels of awfulness though, you girl.
 
BillBillson said:
After many analyses of the game, I have come to the conclusion that PES 2011 is the most incomplete unfinished product that Konami have released since the woeful PES 2008. But this time around, Konami have learned a lesson in releasing unfinished products in that they have nerfed the attacking elements of the game in order to conceal its major short-comings.

There are a great amount of ropey features in PES 2011.

  • The auto-switch is so broke, that it forces the player to use 'assisted' (which is still shit).
  • Lofted passes and manual passes behave very inconsistently.
  • Lofted through ball takes into account position of defenders and tends to play even the most obvious easy balls more into the defenders path.
  • The R2/RT 'fast turn' results in slow clumsy turn and ball bouncing about 1.5 metre away from player.
  • The unnatural clumsy first touches and stops/pauses exhibited by attackers when receiving ball which serve to allow defenders to catch up and/or to spurn shooting opportunities.

The list indeed could go on and on. But by far the most criminal deliberate nerfing of the game is in the shooting. Now I understand that a great variety of factors are affecting the shooting this time around, such as player positioning in relation to ball, the fact that releasing sprint button to momentarily slow player down results in a better shot, and all the different 'after touch' affects that can be applied in between activating shoot button and the player actually striking the ball. However, the margin for error that the game allows (for all but the most legendary players such (Ibrahimovic, Messi etc) is far too tight, which makes controlling the shooting and getting away good solid well placed shots a bit of a nightmare. Indeed, I am sure those of you who play with teams other than Barca are very well acquainted with the soft floaty lob to knowhere that your strikers often 'unleash' when steaming towards goal with only the keeper to beat. for many, it is the single most game destroying issue with PES 2011.

So why have Konami released the game with the shooting in the state? In order to hide the shockingly incomplete and broked keeper AI of course! If we were able to shoot on goal in PES 2011 like we could in any previous PES release, we would be getting cricket scores. Instead, Konami have nerfed the shooting so much, that the sweet spot of perfection is a pubic hair wide, that 9/10 times our shots can never be quite what we were looking for (regardless of how good we know the shooting system mechanics). Combine this with all the other cheap ways in which the AI conspires against attackers in AI and to the untrained eye, there is the illusion of a well oiled tight AI footie game......which in reality...is yet another incomplete broken mess from Konami.
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I totally agree, except where you say it is second worst to PES 2008. I suggest you play that game again to see the amount of improvements since then.

But yeah, there are plenty of nerfs in the attacking part of the game which make it unrealistic, implemented mainly due to a lacklustre switching system and poor design of defensive gameplay.
 
I suck pretty bad but after a few weeks started to make some sense of the shooting. Been watching a lot of EPL and Serie A games this Fall and these pro football players miss a lot of shots so I think the game is fairly realistic in that regard. No problems with the switching esp post patch. The game isn't perfect but it is far better than any game I have ever played.
 
BillBillson said:
After many analyses of the game, I have come to the conclusion that PES 2011 is the most incomplete unfinished product that Konami have released since the woeful PES 2008. But this time around, Konami have learned a lesson in releasing unfinished products in that they have nerfed the attacking elements of the game in order to conceal its major short-comings.

There are a great amount of ropey features in PES 2011.

  • The auto-switch is so broke, that it forces the player to use 'assisted' (which is still shit).
  • Lofted passes and manual passes behave very inconsistently.
  • Lofted through ball takes into account position of defenders and tends to play even the most obvious easy balls more into the defenders path.
  • The R2/RT 'fast turn' results in slow clumsy turn and ball bouncing about 1.5 metre away from player.
  • The unnatural clumsy first touches and stops/pauses exhibited by attackers when receiving ball which serve to allow defenders to catch up and/or to spurn shooting opportunities.

The list indeed could go on and on. But by far the most criminal deliberate nerfing of the game is in the shooting. Now I understand that a great variety of factors are affecting the shooting this time around, such as player positioning in relation to ball, the fact that releasing sprint button to momentarily slow player down results in a better shot, and all the different 'after touch' affects that can be applied in between activating shoot button and the player actually striking the ball. However, the margin for error that the game allows (for all but the most legendary players such (Ibrahimovic, Messi etc) is far too tight, which makes controlling the shooting and getting away good solid well placed shots a bit of a nightmare. Indeed, I am sure those of you who play with teams other than Barca are very well acquainted with the soft floaty lob to knowhere that your strikers often 'unleash' when steaming towards goal with only the keeper to beat. for many, it is the single most game destroying issue with PES 2011.

So why have Konami released the game with the shooting in the state? In order to hide the shockingly incomplete and broked keeper AI of course! If we were able to shoot on goal in PES 2011 like we could in any previous PES release, we would be getting cricket scores. Instead, Konami have nerfed the shooting so much, that the sweet spot of perfection is a pubic hair wide, that 9/10 times our shots can never be quite what we were looking for (regardless of how good we know the shooting system mechanics). Combine this with all the other cheap ways in which the AI conspires against attackers in AI and to the untrained eye, there is the illusion of a well oiled tight AI footie game......which in reality...is yet another incomplete broken mess from Konami.
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sleepingMan_794075c.jpg
 
Meh, might as well tell you the truth BillBillson

BillBillson said:
There are a great amount of ropey features in PES 2011.

  • The auto-switch is so broke, that it forces the player to use 'assisted' (which is still shit).
  • Lofted passes and manual passes behave very inconsistently.
  • Lofted through ball takes into account position of defenders and tends to play even the most obvious easy balls more into the defenders path.
  • The R2/RT 'fast turn' results in slow clumsy turn and ball bouncing about 1.5 metre away from player.
  • The unnatural clumsy first touches and stops/pauses exhibited by attackers when receiving ball which serve to allow defenders to catch up and/or to spurn shooting opportunities.
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Every football game pisses me off when it coems to auto switching :)

Lofted though balls are fine tbh, Would you prefer every lofted through ball to be perfect or maybe pull you finger out and use the manual lofted ball even, or manual pass? Or expecting shit players to pass as if they were Xavi on steriods?

R2 turn is great, it's more deeper than before and now properly it takes into account how agile each player is! The key is to hold R2 and the left stick in the direction you want your players first touch to be! I don't want to it be fifa like super silky, smooth, superman like!

Well in my Juventus ML i beat players with Krasic for fun, and i don't have an issue with this player catchup since i hold R1 and R2 together when 'spiriting at top speed with the ball' or tapping R1 when going in a straight line. Compared to just holding R1 which won't get you nowhere really!

You don't become and instant expert int his game simply because you been playing video games for 20 odd years!

as for the shooting, i love, because i understand it, and when i do shoot miles over, it really dosen't bother me! I love the game for what it is despite it's countless niggles rather than what i want it to be!
 
klashman69 said:
Meh, might as well tell you the truth BillBillson

Lofted though balls are fine tbh, Would you prefer every lofted through ball to be perfect or maybe pull you finger out and use the manual lofted ball even, or manual pass? Or expecting shit players to pass as if they were Xavi on steriods?

as for the shooting, i love, because i understand it, and when i do shoot miles over, it really dosen't bother me! I love the game for what it is despite it's countless niggles rather than what i want it to be!
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I also understand the shooting which is why I know that they have nerfed it. The sweetspot is far too narrow for the games own good. This puts of casual gamers or those picking up the game for the first time after years on FIFA, and even those who know how the shooting works, are all too often left frustrated.

This is not in-keeping with good game design. The reason that Konami have done it this way is because otherwise, we would be having cricket scores due to very suspect keeper AI. In otherwords, the shooting is the way it is because the game is incomplete.

As for the chipped lobbed balls......when I pull of a command, I want a consistent result depending on my inputs. Wot I dont want is the AI to calculate where the defender is and make sure the ball holds up in a totally unrealistic fashion in order to make it a 50/50 or 60/40 ball. This is just plain cheap AI.

As for the manual pass, they dont really exist. What you get is some bastardised form of a manual pass, with very inconsistent outcomes per gamepad input. Especially when attacking, the manual pass becomes very weak and takes defender positions into account when the AI is scripting the pass. The main use of the manual pass for me was always to lay a ball off for an on running player. This is now not possible unless my player is facing the direction I want the pass to go in at the time of kicking it. The way around this is too grossly overcompensate with the direction of the stick, but exactly how much needs to be grossly over compensated in order to get a simple sqaure ball whilst player is still running towards goal is never consistent. Again, manual pass in PES 2011 is stinking shit.

While PES 2011 is still a good game and offers plenty entertainment, there is just so many things in the game held together by chewing gum and sticky back plastic that you know would not be in there and/or be fixed if WEP had a 2 year time frame instead of just 1 year. We are effectively playing a beta of this years game. An unpolished early version.
 
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BillBillson said:
I also understand the shooting which is why I know that they have nerfed it. The sweetspot is far too narrow for the games own good. This puts of casual gamers or those picking up the game for the first time after years on FIFA, and even those who know how the shooting works, are all too often left frustrated.
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there isn't a sweetspot like in fifa which means automatic goal, you either catch it, or you don't catch it based on your body position etc..

You seem like to too used to scoring those scripted goals and creating the exact same carbon copy attacks all the time!

Like what Jamez said but here. You don't get the shooting in this game. It's not like how it used to be. if you class yourself as a casual etc..or whatever, don't get worked up when you miss, it's just a game!
 
I'm agree with BillBillson ! PES 2011 is broken and incomplete in each key aspect
 
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Got to be honest. I'm totally bored by the game and it's only been out a few months. Maybe i'll get my second wind soon.

Can empathise with a lot of the complaints.
 
why are games always fantastic or crap! There is an in between, people! If the game is not the best thing ever for you, why not just say "It's avarage". It's always: "Oh, the game is broken" WHAT A LOAD OF HORSE MANURE! PES 2011 IS NOT BROKEN BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION!!!
 
Isslander said:
why are games always fantastic or crap! There is an in between, people! If the game is not the best thing ever for you, why not just say "It's avarage". It's always: "Oh, the game is broken" WHAT A LOAD OF HORSE MANURE! PES 2011 IS NOT BROKEN BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION!!!
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That's what I think as well. Most people seem to either love or hate games, no averages. I guess it's to do with money maybe. With games being expensive these days, people expect them to be every penny's worth. If they were cheaper, maybe people would be less critical.

That aside, we still should rate games fairly really. It's always either 0 or 10. Well that's the feeling I get anyway.

For me, not one game is perfect, so a 10/10 isn't available in my books. PES 2011 gets a solid 8 for me, and the rating is an overall, not just the gameplay. While some things are very well implemented, other things still feel "loose" and need tightening.
 
Isslander said:
why are games always fantastic or crap! There is an in between, people! If the game is not the best thing ever for you, why not just say "It's avarage". It's always: "Oh, the game is broken" WHAT A LOAD OF HORSE MANURE! PES 2011 IS NOT BROKEN BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION!!!
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I agree with you, but he said the game was incomplete...and i tend to agree with that...every PES game is incomplete.
 
gerd said:
I agree with you, but he said the game was incomplete...and i tend to agree with that...every PES game is incomplete.
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No.

Every PES game could be improved upon, but not every PES game is 'incomplete'.

I much prefer Pro Evo to FIFA 11. However, when you play FIFA 11, you know that you are playing a well polished finished article, despite the never ending room for improvement. I don't feel this way when I am playing Pro Evo 2011. Pro Evo 2011 has some very rough and faulty edges combined with some very strange gameplay implementations that are the way that they are simply because the developers never had time to round it off properly. If this were any other game it would have been delayed. They have released a Beta version, something not seen since the woeful PES 2008.

Main point = ropey nerfed shooting in order to balance badly lacking goalkeeper AI. This is fact.......imo.
 
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BillBillson said:
No.

every PES game could be improved upon, but not every PES game is 'incomplete'.

I much prefer Pro Evo to FIFA 11. However, when you play FIFA 11, you know that you are playing a well polished finished article, despite the never ending room for improvement. I don't feel this way when I am playing Pro Evo 2011.
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Fifa 11 is a well polished, finished article on the surface, but underneath all that the game is far more incomplete than PES2011. The fact is Fifa doesn't even get the basics of football right and PES does. I'm not saying PES gameplay is perfect as there is undoubtledly massive room for improvement, but what PES does far, far better than Fifa is give the feeling of being involved in a real football match, whether it be against the AI or another person. So to say PES is incomplete in every area is well wide of the mark.

Ultimately it depends what's important to you. If you're a football person then there's only one choice.
 
Jamezinho said:
Fifa 11 is a well polished, finished article on the surface, but underneath all that the game is far more incomplete than PES2011. The fact is Fifa doesn't even get the basics of football right and PES does. I'm not saying PES gameplay is perfect as there is undoubtledly massive room for improvement, but what PES does far, far better than Fifa is give the feeling of being involved in a real football match, whether it be against the AI or another person. So to say PES is incomplete in every area is well wide of the mark.

Ultimately it depends what's important to you. If you're a football person then there's only one choice.
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Agree to a large extent on this.... PES gameplay does 'play' alot better than FIFA in the fact that you actually feel involved in the game in PES and it recreates the atmosphere a lot better, the immersion factor is 10 times better.
But also agree alot with Bill in the fact that there are parts of PES 11 which either dont feel quite finished or are just a very poor implementation of an idea by the dev team.
- Player stumbles for 5 secs and you cant control him even when a CPU merely brushes you
- Freedom of passing yet passes STILL go awry and to different players than you intend
- A refereeing system that is absolutely shocking with some of the decisions it gives or doesnt give. (perhaps down to a poorly implemented or unfinished collision detection system)
- Elephant touch of the ball, with it going off out of play 9/10 times even when using highly skilled players and/or the R2 button
- Commentators talking over eachother during the game, enough said.
- AI deciding what you do and when you can do it not the player
- Shooting ... too inconsistent, why should a forward being chased by a defender result in a shot like a helium balloon floating towards the moon?!

and more .........
Great game but could be so so much better.
 
IMO, and I have said it before, PES 2011 is the BASE for the next games in the series. PES 2011 is the game I've liked the most and it just needs a couple of details and bugs to be fixed. KONAMI must take PES 2011 gameplay as the base for the next games, and not change it completely again, like in the past games. Passing needs to be IMPROVED (not changed); shooting needs to be IMPROVED (again, not changed). The only massive changes I would love to see are:

DEFENDING: a guy posted a video called PES NIGHTMARE 2 (thank you; sorry I can't remember your name), in which he shows how defenders just look at the ball while it is passing 2 inches away form their feet. Also I've seen other situations in which defenders seem to run away from the ball when there's a shot or a pass; and this makes attacking easy.

And the biggest and most massive change PES needs is AI!
AI is still the biggest error in the game. I have seen the AI doing the most stupid things while defending and attacking, sometimes in order not to score a goal when attacking and in order to concede a goal while defending, which is completely retarded! AI needs to be improved to make the game harder for the experienced players, it needs to be improved to add a boost of realism to the game, and it needs to be improved to make the game smoother and better. A decent AI would also improve BAL game mode, in which I keep seeing the most stupid mistakes by the COM controled players, which makes the game mode a bit frustrating sometimes.

Also, KONAMI should start considering their animations and their physics. Is it logical that a player falls backwards when he's receivng a slide tackle from the front? The animations when players "crash" frontally is poor. I've seen players getting stuck in the grass with a guy in front of them, not being able to move at all. Another point is goalkeeping animations. Sometimes, you shoot the weakest ball possible, but the keeper just throws himself in slow motion and surprise, you just scored the ugliest and most unrealistic goal in history! Also happens with deflected shots.

Bottom line, PES isn't a perfect game, but it is certainly a good piece to start working for PES 2012. I agree with the people above, this is not a 0 and it's clearly not a 10 either, so we can't say it is completely negative or positive. IMO Pes 2011 might be a 7.5 or an 8.

Thank you and greetings.

PS: I apologize if you got bored while reading my long post
 
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xPJRx you hit the spot right there. Although regarding 'touch', I have to say even though still it needs lots of work, Konami have done it much better than EA. In FIFA some asshat like Clichy has the same touch as Messi.
 
FIFA sells the sizzle, not the steak. PES feels more like you are immersed in the game and players feel different. FIFA's players lack personality, with the exceptions of some animations. Sometimes shooting on PES is too floaty even with what seems like minimal pressure but often in real life there is implied pressure and players miss (maybe the animation should be less floaty and just go wide or high but with more pace...or dribble along the ground). But if you learn how to shoot at a decent level, you can score some crackers - I know I have and PES 11 is my first PES game. A light tap with direction or a double tap of shoot keeps it lower and hard.
 
xPJRx said:
- AI deciding what you do and when you can do it not the player
- Shooting ... too inconsistent, why should a forward being chased by a defender result in a shot like a helium balloon floating towards the moon?!
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Loving the debates in here btw. I hope we keep it this way :)

I don't agree with you on these points though, PJR. I barely see any helium stuff tbh, except when I full power up the bar.
 
pes 2011 is the 1st footy game on my favorite list at the moment
i enjoy this game although it has many issues that shine sometimes and lower the enjoyability of the game
yet on contrary to all the criticism i see from many pes fans towards pes 2011 here and even in the wenb i still "unfortunately" enjoy this damn game
 
konami is doing this since 08 to hide the bad AI, they cant solve it or havent got the time to do it so they nerf certain things so that other things arent that big of an eye catching issue

nothin new welcome @ bill good morning :BYE:

there are a LOT of hidden scripts in the game :P
 
You don't like the game how it is now and you don't care much about it or its future versions - stop playing it and find something else to do, don't make whiney posts on internet forums.

You don't like the game how it is now but you want to see it improved in future versions - go to konami forums and make a post there indicatiting the problems and making suggestions, start an online petition and promote it here so people who agree can support you, send an email with feedback to konami, think about a way of contacting them on your own.

If you want something changed then do something constructive. Once again, if you don't really care about the game, then don't be so dependent, don't be such a victim ffs. If you do care, do more then just being another whiney bitch on evo-web.
 
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