PC Tricks and changes in PES6 compared to PES5

Trance_Allstar

Trance_Allstar

I love lamp
18 March 2006
Sweden
First of all, I realize there is probably a few tricks and moves pages, and those who have played WE10 might know these already, but since this is the PC part of the forum, and some never played WE10, I figured it was only fair to non-PS2 or Xbox users to post here some moves and changes I have found in PES6. Also, others are very welcome to add to what I write and give their own tricks and moves.

So, here we go:



1. Tricks and moves

Matthews Feint:
Basically, all you need to do is have the ball at your feet in a stationary position, then press first left and then right, or vice versa (where left and right refers to 90 degrees from the direction your player is facing). As you might have guessed, this can be done in both directions by all players it seems.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK-ss9pfSxQ#

Drawback Side Extension:
An elaboration of the drawback move. First stand still with the ball right in front of you. Next, hold R2 and press in the opposite direction from where you are facing. When executed, immediately release R2 and press 45 degrees forward in the direction of your players preferred foot. This will make your player first draw back the ball with his sole, and then immediately angle it forward and to the side. Seems quite useful actually. Unlike the Matthews Feint above, this move only seems to work towards the side of your players good foot. Not sure if Weak Foot Accuracy or Frequency matters, or Technique or Dribble Accuracy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ7yn-ou-BY#

Stationary Stepover to Dash:
New move where you stand still with the ball close to you (important). Next, tap R2 twice for a quick stepover with the players preferred foot. Next, as soon as you have pressed R2, move the stick 45 degrees from where you are facing, and in the direction of the players preferred foot. If your player is rightfooted, move the stick 45 degrees to the right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq4ohHrPKM8

R2 Sprint modified:
Where holding R2 in PES5 meant the player would be running at a pace somewhere inbetween dashing with R1 and just dribbling as normal speed, now holding R2 makes your player dribble the ball slowly with the ball very close to his body. Perfect for drawing an opponent near and then advancing quickly and going past him. Note that only the Two-Foot Feint works from this dribble mode, I haven't been able to perform the drop shoulder when R2-Sprinting. The Two-Foot feint should work great though as the player quickly accelerates when performing it.

Elastico (Flip Flap):
As most know the Flip Flap animation is also updated to look a bit more authentic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yw8xikxrxk

Backheel Lift Shot:
Performed with very skilled players, I know Ronaldinho can do it. With your back to the goal and standing slightly to the side (same side as your players preferred foot) as seen from the opponents goalie.Tapping the shot button produces a weak shot, whilst powering up produces a very lofted shot that easily lobs a goalie. Also, if you are very quick and press L1 juuuust before the player makes the shot (too soon and the player will turn around and perform a normal L1-lob) you will get a Backheel Lift Shot very similar in trajectory and height to a normal L1 Lob, although considering how close to goal you need to be to perform it, it is utterly useless since it will end up in the stands. :)

Also, further tries seem to reveal that whether or not a Heel Lift Shot is executed seems to depend on how close the goalie is to you.

Youtube video. Both the shot normally (R. Carlos), and at the end (Adriano) with L1 pressed just before the player shoots.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQMUcXV4jAk

Other Noted Changes:

Drawback Turnaround removed:
It is no longer possible to perform the Drawback Turnaround move that was available in PES5, where you first use the drawback feint (R2 + Back), then release R2, and hold 135 degrees from where you are facing (meaning you hold back and to the side). This would cause the player to first drawback the ball, stop it, and then turn around on the spot and start moving 135 degrees from where you were facing.

Drop Shoulder move made easier
Performing the drop shoulder move now seems alot easier. The window of opportunity for performing the move has increased which means you no longer need split-second reactions and timing to perform it.
For those who do not know, the drop shoulder is generally performed, when running from left to right, by first letting the player kick the ball once, then as he is approaching the ball again, pressing down (in this case, 90 degrees to the right of player movement), and then moving the stick back to the direction of movement at the right time, just before the player kicks the ball forward again. The key is moving the stick back at the right time, the first stick move to the side can be timed very liberally, seemingly at any point after the players kicks the ball ahead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_W1LQ4yZt4

R1 + L1 Tapout modified
Holding L1 and R1 simultaneously in PES5 would make the player push the ball out from his body with the outside of his boot. But it wasn't as useful as it could have been then. Now in PES6, the player not only pushes the ball a bit further, but also takes a step back and leans his body forward, and starts running to the ball. This animation sets up nicely for a shot that can pack a lot of punch, unlike PES5 where the R1 + L1 Tapout still had your player entirely stationary, making it hard to pickup any speed when running to kick the ball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLff1yBiU5U

Kickout When Receiving Ball removed
PES5 had a very nice move which I used alot, and that was the Kickout when receiving a pass. Basically, when receiving a pass with a stationary player, it was possible to hold R1 and a direction to make the player shove the ball quite a long distance in that direction for your player to run on. When having a fast player it was a great way of creating some space for yourself, especially if the player marking you was a little slow in responding to your sudden movement. Now in PES6 (where the slower passes and tighter defensive play with the defence being much higher to compensate for PES5's long shots), where it would be really useful, it has been removed. I have been able to do it in some angles, such as 90 degrees from where you are facing, but the players seem to be incapable of any other directions. Not sure if it is realistic of being able to receive a ball and then immediately shuffle it backwards and to a side, but if you twist your body slightly before moving yuor leg to shove the ball away, it seems very realistic.
What this means is that it is very hard to create space along the sides or anywhere where there is an opening of some sort. The players also seem to automatically stop alot when receiving passes (like you were holding R2 and a direction to perform the Stop & Turn move) instead of starting to move a short bit before they receive the pass. That causes breaks in the rhythem and causes the other players to creap way to close to you.

NOTE: I do not have any info as to how very high "Dribble Acc", "Technique" or "Weak Foot Acc/Frequency" impacts the use of certain tricks. It is possible that skilled and two-footed players can perform some of them in both directions where as it generally seems some are only performable in the direction of the players preferred foot.


2. Freekicks


New Freekick Style
Firstly, there is a 10th and new freekick style animation in PES6. The player who has been gifted with that is none other than Juninho Pernambucano of Brazil and Lyon. Regarded as one of the best freekick specialists in the world, his special style of free kicks is now in the game. It consists of a fairly long runup, followed by a kick with the instep of the foot. However, this variation seems more suited for close freekicks rather than longer ones since it has a more angled approach than the usual straight one Juninho uses for longer freekicks in the real world. The thing that makes Juninho's freekicks standout from others is the fact that he usually uses his instep even from long range, and his freekicks have some of the most bizarre trajectories I have ever seen in terms of topspin and dip, and that is quite amazing coming from a almost completely straight runup, rather than an angled one such as Ronaldinho.

Just for those who are curios as to what a Juninho freekick looks like, this video compilation does it justice I think:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaHFJDoQy6I

General Freekick Impressions
Freekicks are quite different in feel and execution. Most notably, it seems to be alot harder to score from 25+ metres. I contribute this mainly to the goalkeepers being extremely fast in reaction and acceleration of movement. In my opinion way too fast for realism, which I guess is what Konami are aiming for. It just seems like the goalkeeper has no system for simulating the weight of movement, or even a simple delay system for mimicing it. Therefor, the goalkeeper accelerates far too quickly when responding to the shots in my opinion. Also, Konami have now enhanced the "early response" for goalkeepers found on occassion in PES5. Basically, what it means is that the goalkeeper sometimes will take a step torwards the unguarded corner before the freekick is struck. If that happens it seems nearly impossible to score in that corner, the keeper is just too fast.
But, there seems to be a "remedy" or trick for this aswell. As some may know, since it isn't really a feature used alot I would guess, it is possible to fool a human player you are playing against on the same tv or computer screen, by shifting the aim of a freekick left and right using R1 and L1 after you have pressed for shot or lob. This feature also seems to work for the goalkeepers. In other words, the goalkeepers seem to be able to "guess" where you are aiming when pressing shot, so if you are aiming at the unguarded corner of the goal and shooting, the goalie will read the freekick and take a step to that corner just before the freekick is shot.
But with the shift aim feature it seems you can fool the keeper instead. Simply by aiming at the goalies corner before taking the freekick, and then shifting the aim to what you believe to be the correct degree before the ball is struck, means that the goalie might think that you are in fact hitting the ball to his corner, when infact you have shifted the aim. All I can say is that this method seems to reduce the number of goalie pre-movements quite a bit. And it also seems to work quite well in the inversed corner aswell. In other words, aiming at the unguarded corner might fool the keeper into taking a step towards it, while you shift the aim and knock the ball into the "goalie's" corner. This was a bit of a long text but...

POST CONTINUES IN POST #7
 
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3. Shooting


Where to start... This is where PES6 sucks. The shooting is all over the place. Sometimes you can get satisfactory shots that go nicely towards goal. But mostly, they will shoot high above the bar, especially when being close to the goal, even if the shot power doesn't even reach half-way. Now that doesn't make sense. I am closer to goal, I give the shot less power, whywould it go over then when harder shots from farther out hit the goal? Why is the top part of the bar even there? Ok, sometimes you can use it and the shot stays down far enough to hit the goal, but after just a couple of games I am scared of shooting. I don't want to take a shot because if I do it will most likely mean a wasted attack.

And forget angled shots. For those following Chelsea and their attacker Drogba, you will probably recently have seen two goals from him, one in the League and one in CL I believe. Both of these shots consisted of Drogba turning from almost having his back to the goal, and putting the ball in from outside the box. In PES6, turning your side to the goal means the shot will be reduced to a curling measely crapshot that oozes outside the goal.

And don't start about longshots. Firstly let's remember that the shots fly Hiiiiigh alot of the time. Then there is of course the habit of players to take Controlled Shots from 35 metres... Why is there an f-ing Controlled Shot button (R2) when the bastards take it upon themselves to hit broadside shots from 30+ metres. Just because I am not holding R1 and running like a mofo when I take a long shot, doesn't mean I still don't want the player to give it his everything. Not to mention when you are wrestling to get in the box and the player toes it to the keeper, outside or over instead of blasting it in.

Ok, so this may be subjective you think. Wrong. You just need to look at the replays to see the completely unrealistic shotpowers. Why oh why does not Konami try to base their game on real-life parameters? You know, time different real-life players and how fast they run different lenghts, and base their stats on those measurements. Time how long is takes for a Gerrard shot from 30 metres to hit the back of the net, and then base his most powerful efforts on that etc. Now I take a shot with Ashley COle (maybe not the sharpest shooter) and the replay shows the ball traveling at just a bit more than the speed of his foot. I guess the balls in PES have absolutely no bounce? And it's not like I could have put any more power into that shot since it went in just under the bar.

Youtube demonstration of Dead Ball Physics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee93uNYbM6E

All in all, right now I feel like I am going back to PES5. It feels like Konami are just randomly changing parameters to give the game a different feel every time. If they were going for realism, there should be less and less difference for each version of the game, since realism means adjusting parameters to get as close to real-life physics. I mean seriously, why the change of pace of the game for each version. Why not just base the pace on real-life? Time people running, input into game, done. Completely realistic speeds of players running. Time passes as different strenghts and speeds, input into game, done. As it is now it seems like Konami have so many systems that affect the overall game. Change one thing, then you have to change all the others to compensate, but then another thing needs altering to be fairly realistic etc. They should scrap the current engine right now and go for separate systems interacting in a realistic physics-environment. That way, once the ball has a value for shot speeds that is as it should, it will stay that way, no matter how much Konami tweaks player animation speeds or anything else. Now it just seems like they are going on feeling alone, and that is the wrong approach in my opinion. The shooting system alone in PES6 clearly shows that.

Other shooting notes
The accuracy of the shot seems largely dependant on the timing of the button press. In other words, if you are dribbling the ball, then turn 45 degrees to the forward-right, if you press the shot button immediately after the player has turned (immediately after his foot has touched the ball and changed its direction) the shot will most likely be horrible and go over. If you press the button a little later closer to when the player actually catches up to the ball and can shoot, the shots tend to be better. I for the love of god cannot see the use of this, since in both casesthe player shoots at the exact same moment (when he has caught up to the ball). The only difference is that in one case you want to press the shot button early to make sure the player shootsthe next time he gets near the ball, and in the other case it is possible that the power bar will be slow to power up and the player will skip the first shooting moment and take an extra step before he is ready to exacute the shot.
Once again I have no idea what Konami are on about. In real life, shouldn't deciding early "Next time I get close to the ball, I am going to shoot" result in a better shot than just suddenly taking a shot, when the animations and movements of the players in both cases are identical? Just asking, since in PES it is the other way around.

Also, I want to note that I have recently pulled of some shots that clearly shows the shooting system is in need of work. This is best proven by a volley broadside by Kaka I made that actually gets a Golfball trajectory. A golfball has small pockets along it's entire surface which makes it super-curling, which means that a Golf Drive has the ability to backspin with enough speed, and cause enough pressure differences, that the ball actually gets a higher and higher arch as the ball travels farther. Now, this is possible because of the careful aerodynamics of the Goldball and the light weight. A soccer ball has none of those, only the seams between panels and perhaps the texture of the panels themselves are the cause of pressure differences when spinning, and therefore we never see long passes with a lot of backspin that look like a Golf Drive in real life.

Youtube video to follow...


4. Passing
Yet another aspect Konami has fucked up. The general idea seems to be to slow the passes down to basically make sure that a player receiving a pass will have less space to move on since the slower passes enable defenders to close him down more before the pass gets to him.
The general idea is fine, but there is something horribly wrong.
As most will know, there is no way to decide the power of a pass in PES. Pressing the pass button passes to the nearest teammate, holding it passes to the farthest teammate in the direction pressed. This means that the strenght of the passes are really up to the AI to decide. Pretty sad then that the AI sometimes decides to make extremely slow passes (where the player doesn't really make any pendulum move with his foot, but just sort of pushes it slowly rather than kicking it). Stand with a ball by your foot, move the foot back about 15-20 cm from the ball, and kick it with the broadside to get an idea of the speeds. And those are the speeds for passes over 20-25 metres, which means that the pass sometimes will take severla seconds to reach its destination, when just taking a few 10ths of a second longer to pendulum more when passing would make sure the pass gets there in a second). This means that in alot of cases, a strong decent pass would have reached the intended target, but now the ball just rolls harmlessly and can be intercepted by that opposing player you wanted a fast pass to zip by.
In other words, the passing is sometimes useless, and you feel powerless when your teammates can't seem to realize a certain pass that will be travelling close to opposing forces needs to be hard for them to not have the time to intercept.

Mainly, this is probably aresult of the stat "Pass Speed", which determines the speed at which a pass by a player travels. But this approach is entirely wrong I think. In real life, most people can make a hard pass, whether your name is Ronaldinho or Stevie Oddfoot. It is just a matter of swinging yuor foot fast and hitting the ball with alot of power. Therefor I see no reason for Konami to change the passes much from PES5 which were much better since the players seemed to be better at juding how far the pass was travelling and how fast it needed to be.
Therefore, I would suggest a new system, where a player of lesser stats than say Ronaldinho, would be able to make the same passes as him, only take a little longer. The idea being that Ronaldinho, or any other top player, has better ball hit technique, and would be able to with a fairly short and quick pendulum movement or foot movement put alot of speed behind the ball. A lesser player on the other hand would be able to put the same speed behind it, only he would, due to the lesser explosivity in his legs and feet, need to make a longer foot move, which results in a somewhat longer time before the pass is made. That seems to me alot more realistic. Additionally, Konami should really add a pass bar so we can determine the strenght of passes, since then it would be like in real-life, where we also decide the strenght of our passes. Sometimes it is more important to get a pass to a player with a great deal of power and speed, then it is for that pass to be gentle in pace for the player to receive it well. Then we would be able to judge ourselves what type of pass we want to send, and it would be our fault if a pass is to fast for a player to properly trap, or too lose to be intercepted. The power bar would have to be quite fast in powering up, to make sure that the player doesn't in any case take an extra step just because you are still powering up. If you hold it all the way up, it would automatically result in a pass to the farthest teammate, just like in PES5 and 6. So nothing is lost here.

Also, pass directions are weird sometimes. In PES5 there was a certain amount of liberty in passing directions. Wrong players receive the ball, sometimes I will want to pass to a teammate that is quite far away, and the ball will go in that directions, but it will be very loose and suddenly a player that is in the opposing direction of the pass will become player active and react to the pass, even though he was clearly not the player intended to receive the pass.


5. Goalies

I have touched on it, but the goalies are not realistic at all. At freekicks they are superhuman with perfect reflexes, and they have no problems glueing rockhard accurate Roberto Carlos freekicks from 30 metres (And that is without doing the enhanced "Move Early" function). The goalies are gifted with new animations, which consist of many more (almost exclusively actually) one-handed saves. Sadly this often goes overboard when a ball which could have been easily caught and deflected simply by extending the relevant arm into the air and moving the upper body slightly, now goes in whilst the goalie is doing some kind of TV save.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNUxdcZhXhQ

The good news is that their physics have been mainly improved. They now don't get sudden lifts into the air when running and then jumping to the side (which would happen in PES5 when a goalie was moving towards a post to catch a ball, then when jumping they would still be able to jump up in the air quite a bit, which is very hard to do when you are moving your body mass quickly to the side, especially when sidestepping like goalies do while moving sideways. The jump should be lower and it is now).
Still, there is no fun striking freekicks any more, since the goalies are way too good. In real-life you see Juninho put in FKs from 35 meters, but in PES it is a challenge to put them in from 28-30. The goalie moves to the top corners extremely fast, and I have also seen some ridiculous moves where I would strike the ball quite a bit outside the post, and the goalie would still be there to catch it, in other words moving very far very fast and still catching the ball.
Also, I mentioned the "Move Early" Function for goalies at Freekicks. While it is realistic for goalies to sometimes take a stap to the unguarded corner, PES6 makes it very unrealistic. Not only does the keeper have a huge advantage of it already being able to catch the hardest balls in the top corners, but it is, due to the keeper not being physically realistic, also hard to take advantage of it. For example, the keeper might take a step towards the unguarded corner at a freekick. But I am aiming for the keepers corner. Now in real-life, the keeper ending up somewhere in the middle of the goal with some momentum towards the unguarded corner when the freekick is struck, the keeper would have a very hard time catching the ball. Not only has he moved toward the middle of the goal, but he is also moving his weight and being slightly unbalanced. This would mean that his ability to react to the ball going into the corner he just left, move there quickly, and throw himself to the ball with speed are greatly diminished.

Check this freekick out by Ronaldinho.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g4Lc4ZftWc
As you can see, it hasn't got lots of speed, or is in the very top of the corner, yet he still puts it in with ease (and that's Oliver Kahn in the goal). Who knows why Kahn didn't move, maybe he was fooled. The point is that the PES goalies are way too mechanical, when there are so many factors in freekicks and shots in general. They have no system for example guessing where a shot might come (and being punished when guessing wrong). And they are way too quick, they go from stationary to moving sideways in an instant, not with the accelerating movement a real-life human would.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5jZ6ePSzVg
Look at 1:03 in this video. Ronaldinho shoots the ball in the goalies corner. Not extremely hard at all. The goalie takes a guess and loses. Wouldn't happen in PES.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj6i2MZ-Xmo
This one has the goalie stranded. Watch the goalie and see how far he has time to move. He takes one jump to the side before the ball hits the net. In PES, the goalie would have had his hand up by the top corner. There are worlds between real-life goalie bahaviour and the PES goalies.
 
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I haven't done a heel shot as of yet. But as far as I know it is a matter of positioning a great player in a way that he will use the backheel.
Same with the Rabona which is now only available to players with low "Weak Foot Freq" and a very high technique rating (90+ I believe).

Ok, just did the heel shot with Ronaldinho and you need your back to the goal, standing very close and with the left foot closest to the goal (in other words, standing a bit to the right of the goal as seen from the goalkeeper). Nothing that is very useful that is. ;) Not sure this can be done for passes aswell, but I tried alot and no good, will probably have to wait until it happens by itself.
 
Great thread. Thank you. And I completely agree with the last section about the shooting. It was fine (maybe not perfect, but ok) in PES5. Why change it back to this ballooning mess? It seems so random at times. One situation, slight tap, ball fires away like a rocket. Next situation, slight tap, ball barely wobbles across the ground. Next situation, slight tap, ball flies on stadium roof. I know: "parameters/stance/strong/weak foot/direction to goal", blah, blah... it still doesn't feel right.
 
Nope, just the shot button, and perhaps aiming to the goal since you need to be off to the side slightly. I would say the best position for doing it would be to stand just between the penalty spot and one corner of the goal keeper area (the small box closest to goal). If your player if rightfooted stand between the penalty spot and the right corner of the goal area.
 
That's strange, because the only way I could shoot with the heel was L1 + :square: combo. I only tried it on the training ground so far, though.
 
I see, well I did it with just the :square: button.

By the way, is this move even physically possible. Not sure I have ever seen any one do this, flipping it up with one foot. Sure you can do it with two feet if you lay the ball up on the heel with the other foot but...
 
Trance_Allstar said:
By the way, is this move even physically possible. Not sure I have ever seen any one do this, flipping it up with one foot. Sure you can do it with two feet if you lay the ball up on the heel with the other foot but...
Click to expand...

Yes, it is possible in real life. Zola did it off a corner kick, one of the greatest goals of all time.
 
Really? and the ball was completely stationary on the ground when he did it, meaning it wasn't just a backheel on a moving ball? I gotta search Youtube for that one, maybe some Zola compilations exist... :D

EDIT: Just saw it. Incredible goal that! But I still gotta say that it was done at a moving ball that was just about to bounce off the ground, and Zola jumped which means that he caught it mid-air and could easily have "just" gotten the heel under the ball to produce that lift (the ball being in height with his lower calf and then moving the heel towards the ball to catch it from underneath for lift). In PES6 it is possible to do a very high (over the bar) heel lift with just one foot, when the ball is lying flat on the ground. I don't know about you, but to me it seems like it would be hard to get the heel low enough to get any lift on the ball, since the heel isn't as wedge-shaped as the foot.
 
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I completely miss the kickout when receiving the ball. It was a bit easy in pes5, but to remove it is dumb, like you said, it breaks lot of the attacking pace... Still i found pes6 a lot faster.

A move that they corrected is the first-shot, when the ball comes to the player from the side, now you can control the shoot, while in pes5 the player shoots with automatic power and direction and the ball curves in a crazy way...
 
I was just talking about the heel flick shot on a moving ball...

It is possible to get your foot around it and flip it up from a stopped ball on the ground also, but no where near the power as you get in the game. It looks slightly different, but i'm sure konami found it easier to animate using only the ball on the heel.
 
sattan_hussein said:
I completely miss the kickout when receiving the ball. It was a bit easy in pes5, but to remove it is dumb, like you said, it breaks lot of the attacking pace... Still i found pes6 a lot faster.

A move that they corrected is the first-shot, when the ball comes to the player from the side, now you can control the shoot, while in pes5 the player shoots with automatic power and direction and the ball curves in a crazy way...
Click to expand...

That is true, I remember the shot you talk about. The one where it looks like the player just sort of punts it loosely with the inside of the boot yet the ball gets alot of power and that crazy spin as you say. Glad they fixed that one. :)


gflare said:
I was just talking about the heel flick shot on a moving ball...

It is possible to get your foot around it and flip it up from a stopped ball on the ground also, but no where near the power as you get in the game. It looks slightly different, but i'm sure konami found it easier to animate using only the ball on the heel.
Click to expand...

Well, it won't happen alot that it for sure, so it being slightly unrealistic isn't a problem for me. :)
 
Great thread, but are you saying the game is crap?? you have already made me seriously think of taking it back to get a refund.
 
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pure class man.
I'm frustrated by the game as well, on PC with a Logitech Rumblepad 2, I'm finding making consitant shots on goal nearly impossible.
This year, more than in the past, I've used the training area to findout what the game is doing.
it has helped in a couple of instances, but I stil can't figure how to control and place free kicks.
 
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