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online is not football

Discussion in 'Pro Evolution Soccer - PC' started by juce, 29 November 2006.

  1. juce

    juce Premiership

    7 November 2003
    have anyone played any decent opposition online? by decent i don't necessarily mean the skills, but rather somebody who doesn't always slide in and pressure the opponent for the ENTIRE freaking match, doesn't do mazy runs through the entire defence, doesnt always play with Barcelona or Real Madrid. Lag is another thing that absolutely kills any remains of football.
    For me, online mode is a stupid joke. Makes me want to throw the f*ing game out of the window...
     
  2. Lobo22

    Lobo22 FreEdoM

    31 October 2006
    Argentina
    Hi Juce, I have PES6 since a couple of days after the release, but I can´t play online (because of obvious reasons;-) ). I do play one -on-one every day. Anyway I have a thread where I would like to have your opinion http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?t=37409
    As soon I can play online I´ll post my opinion here in the right way.
    Keep up the GREAT work mate!
     
  3. Hectic Glenn

    Hectic Glenn League 2

    14 May 2006
    London, UK
    Tottenham Hotspur
    I agree, the game feels totally different online. Shooting is much more difficult, passing is fickle, tackling is 90% more efficient & goal keepers are saints. To score you need to do the same thing over and over. Run down the wing in parallel lines, cut in, wait for keeper to come, square the ball for a tap in. Snore! Occasionally you get a wonderful strike (very rarely). Online mode is truly a different world, a different game, and hugely disappointing considering the huge potential locked within PES. Why they are changing it, I do not know...
     
  4. juce

    juce Premiership

    7 November 2003
    i have no problem losing to a good player, or even to a crappy player, if the game is good, meaning that if it feels like real football game. But the online matches - i don't know how to call that. For all the flaws and drawbacks of playing against AI, at least there you are in control: you can make it good or bad. Online, if one of the players just wants to win by all means, and if there's a little bit of lag - that's it. Game over at that point. Of course, there are masohists who love to claw back the 0:5 deficit or the like. I've done that a couple times succesfully, but doing that in every other match? - no thank you. I'd rather play the AI.

    For one half, i pretty much have to defend with 10 men behind the ball, and hoof it out as soon as i manage to take it away from the attacker. No point bothering with any passing movements or god forbid dribbling: the lag renders that impossible. For the second half, again, since pretty much everybody plays 5 or 10 min halfs, there isn't really any time to construct a good goal or string together a few decent passes. Instead, it becomes a mad rush to try to score enough goals to level the game. Even if i manage to do that, there is no satisfaction. Feels stupid and as a waste of time...

    Another thing is that everybody is choosing Barcelona or Chelsea or AC Milan or Inter or Real Madrid. That's it, i think. Oh,and Brazil, of course! When i see one of those teams, i'm pretty much already pissed off at the other player, even though he didn't do anything bad. Yet. Why? because, with the lag factor, in order to have any realistic chance to not be 0:5 in the first have, you have to play a team of players with similar ability. For instance, i did manage to draw with Russia against Brazil, but only because the moron who was playing with Brazil managed to miss at least six perfect goal-scoring opportunities. I was lucky enough to score with a deflection of a defender, but there was no way i could defend the 1:0 lead, and sure enough he scored with f*ing Adriano
     
  5. bebo

    bebo Looking for a Manager

    25 July 2005
    Arsenal Thread
    The Arsenal FC
    I know exactly what you mean....I try and play realistically with passes and crosses whiling getting slide tackle every second of play and try to score before 1st half.2nd half it`s trying to play with a 6 second delay(like hearing youself on live radio)
     
  6. Unevilized

    Unevilized Banned

    28 June 2006
    that how all online games are, we have to wait for like 100 years so everyone would have3 1000m+ connections
     
  7. healdy72

    healdy72 Non-League

    27 September 2006
    i think that its boring every player ive come across runs runs runs into box all time and a can tell that computer to me puposly slow ure team down plus am sorry i do not believe the lad at position 1 online as had 254 or 264 wins on run yeh sure he has
     
  8. Energia

    Energia Premiership

    22 December 2003
    online is a JOKE!!!

    Konami servers are in JAPAN!!! (try to write netstat command during the connection, and try to ping server...)
    Then the online netcode is tested on japanese connections, and not in european connection...

    Konami every year with online fu_ck us!!! In ITALY the game costs € 45,00!!!



     
  9. juce

    juce Premiership

    7 November 2003
    i think i just played my last online match. frustrating beyond belief... don't feel like playing pes6 offline anymore either. screw this shit.
     
  10. ToaTheBoa

    ToaTheBoa League 2

    2 August 2005
    Bergen, Norway
    Brann
    Its as easy as this: you're just frustrated because you can't play good football, and then blame the game instead of yourself. Its just bad excuses.

    If you can't play well against players who are better than you, do NOT blame the game. I have had lots of matches where I've had to defend for 90 minutes, and never had time to build up a good attack. It's my own fault. Sometimes I just need to calm down. It's not the games fault that the opponent is very good at putting pressure to the ball. This happens when it's easy to read your game. Thats why, in real football and in PES6, good players seems to have much better time than less good players. Play better, and your players will have better time. Then you will have more time to get a good pass, and then you start to play nice football.

    Stop crying. I have had LOTS of excellent matches online, with lovely play from both teams, stunning goals, and so on.
     
  11. Trance_Allstar

    Trance_Allstar I love lamp

    18 March 2006
    Sweden
    Far from true.

    Sure, different online opponents require different skills.
    But even PES5 had an online mode that I wouldn't touch because I felt it was a cardboard version of the offline game. I am not sure if the actual gameplay has been changed to better perform in laggy situations, or if lag itself changes the experience, but I cannot play online. I need the exact same response as playing offline if I am to have any fun. Online is just a different thing completely, and in my opinion not even close to PES5 offline (I strongly dislike PES6 entirely so count me out in any situation).
     
  12. ToaTheBoa

    ToaTheBoa League 2

    2 August 2005
    Bergen, Norway
    Brann
    By offline, do you mean playing vs CPU, or playing vs friends? What juce tells about not being able to build up a good play happens to me when playing offline (vs friends) too. Often I blame the game for not doing what it tells it to (passes to wrong player, shoots horrible, and so on), but its usually just my own fault.

    PES5 was great online. PES6 is even better online. All my friends thinks PES6 is a much better game than PES5, and we are having much more fun playing it against eachothers. The game flows much better than PES5.

    PES6 > PES5 > PES4
     
  13. corcks

    corcks Non-League

    24 March 2006
    Liverpool
    See Avatar
    When you create a room in one of the severs there should be an option of what type of teams can only play. Say only 3 star teams can play and the likes of Barca,inter ect could not be selected
     
  14. Pickford

    Pickford Banned

    10 February 2006

    Good idea\\:o/ :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
     
  15. zeus78

    zeus78 zeus

    17 February 2005
    Switzerland
    Good idea but that doesn't work. I creat always rooms with the name "no top clubs" or something like that. But then i have to play always against the same teams.

    For me the best way to play pes6 is with 3 other friends on a beamer. We play 2 vs 2 and that's great. I'm not often only 'cause there are many kids around the servers.
    Or i search in the forums for players with play nice and don't choose always the same team. Then i use the random button to select a team.
     
  16. corcks

    corcks Non-League

    24 March 2006
    Liverpool
    See Avatar
    Of course thats not going to work people just ignore that and play whatever they like. I call my rooms UK players only but i always end up playing someone from Outer Mongolia.
    It would only work if you select an option for 3 star teams only, then any teams with 3 or less stars would show on the team selection page
     
    Last edited: 29 November 2006
  17. ToaTheBoa

    ToaTheBoa League 2

    2 August 2005
    Bergen, Norway
    Brann
    When having lag free games against nice people, add them to your friends list. After a while you will always find an opponent to have quality games with. Just look at the friends list, pick a friend who is online, and choose "Go and meet". Voila!
     
  18. arjen-robben

    arjen-robben League 2

    22 December 2005
    I'm very inconsistent online. I won from players with a far higher "rating" then my own and lose to crap players with no skills at all. Actually, I think that's quit funny. Formations also seem to have a huge effect on the outcome on the match btw
     
  19. Awax

    Awax Non-League

    19 January 2003
    I played online during the first 3-4 days. Never played it again. I'm just playing the "good" old ML for now.
     
  20. ToaTheBoa

    ToaTheBoa League 2

    2 August 2005
    Bergen, Norway
    Brann
    99.9% of my games are against other people. Playing vs CPU is just very very boring. And if you are good at playing vs the CPU doesn't mean you should be good in playing against other humans. There is so many more factors involved in playing against other people. Playing vs CPU gives you a style of playing. A person can easily destroy your playing style and get you frustrated.
     
  21. juce

    juce Premiership

    7 November 2003
    You say playing vs CPU is boring. Fine. How about this: how boring is it to play against the same 3-4 teams again and again and again, when the opponent always does this: play "Pressure" tactic - so you have to get rid of the ball as soon as you get it, because there's a sliding tackle coming in a blink of an eye. When he gets the ball, goes wide, then cuts back into the penalty area, goes to byline, squares the ball into the middle for simple tap-in. 99.9% of the goals i conceed are these types of goals. Yes, i can defend against this, when the lag permits me, but more often than not, it's impossible, because there's just that bit of delay. So, the opponent takes full advantage of that and keeps doing what he's doing. Again, as i said earlier, it's not necessarily a question of winning or losing, but having an enjoyable game. I enjoyed maybe 4-5 games out of 70+ that i played. I say CPU plays with MUCH MORE variety than what i've seen from the human players.
     
    Last edited: 29 November 2006
  22. surfersrule

    surfersrule Guest

    totally agree with juce...if you want to play with humans...just get 1mq of pizza, call 5 or 7 friends with their usb gamepad...connect all to your pc and....have fun!!!
    just what we do on monday evening...laptop connected to my 42 inches widescreen (ps. thanks juce for widescreen fix)..an usb multiport..and lots of fun....online play?...had enought after 3-4 matches with pes4...
     
  23. bebo

    bebo Looking for a Manager

    25 July 2005
    Arsenal Thread
    The Arsenal FC
    juce start a league up and add me to the list :mrgreen:
     
  24. ToaTheBoa

    ToaTheBoa League 2

    2 August 2005
    Bergen, Norway
    Brann
    Pressing the opponent is one of the most important parts of football. If you have problems with the opponent pressing and tackling you, then I guess you play in a very predictable way. You can't just do the most obvious passes and moves all the time. Then the opponent will read your game very easy, and can get very close to your players when they receive the ball. You're playing humans now. Not a stupid predictable CPU...

    If you just can create some space for yourself, that press-and-tackle tactic will be suicide for your opponent. Then you will go through his midfield and defence easy as nothing. The press and tackle tactic works best on not-so-good players who plays predictable football. On better players you wont get close enough to tackle very often. Then you will have a totally different game.

    If the opponent scores goal in the same way all the time, then it's because you let him do just that.

    I have enjoyed LOTS of games online, with stunning long shots, volleys, headers, and of course the goals that you talk about, which usually happens when you lose the ball in not-so-very-smart positions...
     
  25. Hectic Glenn

    Hectic Glenn League 2

    14 May 2006
    London, UK
    Tottenham Hotspur
    Haha so true! I do exactly the same, and a french guy joins the room. I say "UK only please, I don't want a laggy game". Then I think to myself, why isn't this moron in the FRENCH SERVER? It makes no sense. Another problem is the Dutch, Scandinavian, Chinese & Portugese don't have their own server, but can speak english. So they go to the UK server, and the lag problems begin :(

    I'm CERTAIN Konami have altered the game for online play, it is undoubtedly different. Despite how much you pass it around, there is no moral or building of pressure. It's random...'score if you can'. Someone said "We don't all have 1000mb connections" This is a RUBBISH excuse. I play First Person Shooters & many RTS games online. Some examples: Battlefield 2, Half-life 2 Deathmatch, Company of Heroes. Games with MUCH higher packets of information being sent, and physics calculations. All that is required of PES6 is, synchronisation of the games at both ends. Don't touch anything else. The online team at Konami are totally incapable of achieving this, they almost seem naive. It feels like 1998 with PES6, this was years ago, we've established very solid internet play with many games now, it's about time Konami worked out how to do it too. I love your game offline, it's truly the best, but online, you've changed man. You ain't what I know. You are cutting corners...

    /END RANT!
     
  26. juce

    juce Premiership

    7 November 2003
    perhaps, you're right. I've never claimed i was a really good player, certainly there is room to improve. I wouldn't say though that i play very predictable passes every time... yes, i prefer short passing game, with occasional switch from side to side, but a combination of lag and pressure tactic - that's a killer in my opinion. How do you counter that?

    A concrete example: goal kick. My goalkeeper passes the ball to a defender. Before he has a chance to do anything - he gets slide-tackled, attacker gets the ball, it's one-on-one, 50% chance of goal. Of course, it never happens when i host, either because they alter their formation and tactics, or simply because lag stops them from getting to my defender quick enough, or because my defender actually responds to controls in time to avoid the tackle.

    my point is that the implementation of online engine is poor. Perhaps, with no lag, it's fine. And i would agree with the points you make. But i haven't played a single game without lag yet. And then if the opponent chooses to use the lag to his advantage, the football stops there. It becomes not a competition of skills and tactics, but a race of who can score more stupid copy-cat goals in a half.
     
  27. Sub-Conscious

    Sub-Conscious Conference

    3 September 2005
    It would help if the English Room was at the BOTTOM OF THE LIST, and the "Anyone" room was at the top, then all the people who cant read, type, or speak english will go into the first room on the list, just like they do now. I can get on average a better game from the french room, with less lag.

    anybody have contacts at Konami who can make this happen?


    i would recommend joining a group, and playing 2v2, if you want to get the best of online. it actually requires teamwork and co-operation, and can be so much more rewarding, and less frustrating :-)
     
    Last edited: 29 November 2006
  28. BURNA

    BURNA LIVERPOOL FC

    26 April 2006
    England
    Liverpool

    Stick with it Juce. I only play online and wanted to throw PES6 out of the window in the first week. But i kept at it and mastered the new changes. You have to make more use of the square button to defend better. I don't get anyone dribbling through me anymore cos holding square+X at the same time works better on PES6 than on PES5.

    Keep playing mate, and keep up the great work on the kitserver! We'd ALL be lost without you!:applause:
     
  29. Hectic Glenn

    Hectic Glenn League 2

    14 May 2006
    London, UK
    Tottenham Hotspur
    Quoted for Emphasis. I only play 2 v 2 games now, as they are so much more fun. The team work edge, discussing tactics and substitutions. The problem is, you occasionally get 9 year old kids put in ridiculous formations and replace the midfield with strikers. Or keep shooting from the half-way line. This is very rare though I must say. I consider myself a teamplayer, and I get more satisfaction setting up a chance for someone else to score than score myself. Perhaps, because us lot are pretty knowledgeable and mature, we should set up a group to play together online, and get some great games going?
     
  30. ToaTheBoa

    ToaTheBoa League 2

    2 August 2005
    Bergen, Norway
    Brann
    I have had lots of games like that myself, where I feel I have no time at all, and gets tackled all the way. Good players knows what you think. They know what way you will move when you receive the ball, they know who you will pass the next time, even before you know it yourself. In that way they are already on their way to pressing the next player who receives the ball. They are always a little step ahead.

    So the only way to handle this is just trying to be a step ahead of your opponent. If you know what he think you will do, you can just move another way, and suddenly you will have lots of space to run and pass. Just look at Zidane. He has always lots of space and time, while another player who's playing against exactly the same opponents, in the same game, may be closed down and tackled in no time.

    The only way to learn to read your opponent, and not letting he read you, is experience. Remember that lots of the people who are playing online have played online on PES4, PES5 and PES6, and has LOTS of experience in reading the other players game.

    So maby what you should focus the most on is receiving the ball in a way that creates space for yourself, and which creates the most passing opportunities.

    That was a problem in PES5, if you didnt use the radar before passing the ball from keeper, but in PES6 the opponent is much further away from your defendes at goal kick, so its really not much of a problem. And experienced players don't do that mistake. Always use radar!

    I live in Norway. I play lots of laggy games, but its really not that bad. What it does is giving you just a little slower response on your players, so you will have to play with lesser risk, the half you dont host. If you already have a problem with players closing you down, then the lag can often seem worse than it actually is. PES6 is a less laggy game than PES5 online.

    Anyway. Try to stay calm, and do not panic, even if you see 5 mad opponents on their way to tackle you. :) There IS a way out of this frustration. :)

    Playing online rocks! When finding nice players, add them to your friend list. And you learn a lot by playing several games against the same opponents. Then you often find out what you do wrong, especially if the opponent is better than you. You learn much more from a mistake than from a bicycle kick in the top right corner. :)

    Wow. That was a long post. And I'm not very good at this game either, so what am I really talking about?! :D
     

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