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Online Gaming: Good or Bad?

Discussion in 'Online Gaming' started by Chris Davies, 11 February 2007.

What do you think of online gaming?

  1. [It's Great] I play online as soon as I get a game

    20 vote(s)
  2. [It's Alright] I play the single-player game and online shortly after

    16 vote(s)
  3. [I Dread It] I finish the single-player game first and only then do I go online

    4 vote(s)
  4. [I Hate It] I'd rather not play the online modes in most games

    9 vote(s)
  5. [I Don't Know] My console isn't online yet

    1 vote(s)
  1. Chris Davies

    Chris Davies Chief PESsimist Staff

    14 May 2003
    Tranmere Rovers
    There's been a thread similar to this one on Evo-Web before, so I apologise if it seems repetitive. However, I'd like to ask this question again, to see if I'm in the minority or the majority.

    When I buy a game for the XBOX 360, I usually try to finish it in single-player mode before I play it online (which often means I don't get to play a game online - I doubt I'll ever play Tiger Woods online, for example). I've always seen online play as the ultimate challenge; beating the CPU is hard enough in a game like Gears Of War or Rainbow Six: Vegas, trying to beat some of the online players you meet is like trying to get blood out of a stone.

    Lately, though, I've noticed that I'm rarely having fun online. My favourite online games so far have been Gears Of War, FIFA 07, PGR3 and Burnout Revenge (if you include PC games in this, then Battlefield 2142 as well). So why haven't I been having fun with them?

    • In Gears Of War (or BF2142), the opponents are so good that I usually finish last in each round - it's a waste of time.
    • In FIFA 07, you get players pressing long-pass from the half-way line, exploiting a glitch that means the pass will usually find a team-mate close to goal - meaning that each game is just constantly boot, boot, boot, no real gameplay at all.
    • In PGR3, you get cars banging you off the road, wheel-spinning you from behind, and you even get cars trying to form a road-block. It's supposed to be a racer, not an arcade racer, and it totally ruins the game for me.
    • In Burnout Revenge, you get the kind of cheat that PES players hate the most; lag-cheats. This gives the effect that their car stops dead in the middle of the road every few seconds, meaning that if you go within FIVE FEET of it, the physics engine thinks you're going to drive into a stopped car, and so makes you crash and burn.

    So, in those games, it's very rare that I get an online game with no morons and/or no cheats. I've mentioned before that when I've played PES, at least a third (and I'm being kind, I'm sure it's a hell of a lot more than a third) of the people that I played were either lag-cheats, or freeze-cheats. Meaning that one in every three games you play, you get a cheat. So, tell me, unless you're happy to play non-competitively (as in play endless friendlies and not play in the "divisions" that they have), what is the point? What is the point of playing in an online league where a huge percentage of players are cheats - meaning that whatever position you get in the league is skewed totally by the fact that you have a thousand cheats above you and half of your results have been losses because of those cheats? It's not a fair reflection of your ability and so in my mind you might as well not know your position in the league and just play endless friendlies for no ranking points.

    The games companies seem to be reluctant to step in; if you say a third of PES players are cheats - or if you be extremely kind and reduce that fraction to a fifth - that's 20% of their sales going to cheats. If Konami lock the cheats out, then either with PES6 or PES7, they will potentially lose out on 20% of their profits.

    I should say at this point that my girlfriend is also a big gamer, and she plays Battlefield 2 online daily. She very rarely complains, and says that in games like Battlefield, I should join a clan. This isn't something I really want to do, but she says that if you join a clan then you get support from your team-mates (rather than just watching them run off in seven different directions and getting killed along the way), and you get better at the game as a result. But as a casual gamer (as in I will play five different games a day) rather than a heavy gamer (as in playing one specific game every day), I don't think it's fair that I should have to join a clan when I just want to pick the game up and play.

    I should also say that there seem to be games (such as the Battlefield series) that come with very few methods of cheating (if you play on official servers with Punkbuster installed then you don't have many problems). I commend the developers of these games and the Punkbuster system completely, as they even patch their products if any glitches are found (unlike the guys behind PES and Burnout). Which makes me wonder; why are some games seemingly designed to be so open to cheats and others not? For example, there don't seem to be lag-cheats in PGR3 (meaning that it's either impossible to do or they've thrown out the people who do it) - so just why is there a thousand in Burnout Revenge? Is it purposefully done or is one set of programmers simply better than the other?

    So, finally, with all of this in mind, what do you think of online gaming? Do you think that people like myself should just get more practice? Do you think we should shut up and join clans? Or should we even go as far as to cheat like everybody else?

    What do you think the future of online gaming is?
    Last edited: 11 February 2007
  2. Stan

    Stan Allez les Lionceaux !!!

    12 September 2002
    I honestly don't see where the fun is...it's so "mine is bigger than yours"...
    I woldn't mind a multi-player ML.
    Kind of like the idea of working together like in World of Warcraft (although MMORPG's does not appeal to me), kind of like the idea of a community which goes deeper than "i'm higher ranked than you"...
  3. Coopz

    Coopz Retired Footballer

    27 April 2002

    i hardly play single player anymore
  4. Ad16

    Ad16 Premiership

    13 November 2006
    I've never played PES online, and probably never will. There's to much emphasis on points and rank. And people are always moaning about the cheating. Inter this, cutback that. Will it ever end... Does anyone play for fun? There's nothing wrong with competition, but when you are so desperate for a penis extension that you have to cheat to win, it ruins the experience for everyone.

    I mention PES as the example because it's obviously relevant, and the online game seems to be an obvious disaster. In my opinion, if they scrapped the league tables it could stop the cheaters in their tracks. With nothing at stake, they may stick to playing the game rather than ruining it!

    The only game I play online is Counter-Strike: Source, and have never experienced any problems. Everyone involved can have a load of fun, while there is little chance of cheaters exploiting the system.
    Last edited: 12 February 2007
  5. ferenc

    ferenc Guest

    absolutely awesome
  6. deftonesmx17

    deftonesmx17 100% Werder!

    13 July 2005
    United States of Arrogance
    Werder Bremen
    Like you Jack, I try to play the single player first and the online afterwards. Then again, with some games there isnt much of a point. Like football games. When I first got FIFA 07 I played a few of the challenges(quit when i realised how insane they were), started a manager mode, but only got like 5 games in before it was off to online mode. Yes there are plenty of cheats who use the right stick speed glitch, nothing but the finesse shot, and nothing but through balls from the back line to a forward. These people are not fun to play, but isnt this why we have the wonderful feature in XBL of being able to set a player review to negative and XBL will try its best to avoid these people?
  7. gflare

    gflare Post Count?

    20 July 2004
    MD, USA
    While this is nothing new, you are exactly right Jack.

    The so-called "evolution" of online gaming happened over the course of 2000 and 2001 (from my point of view, since the success of EverQuest led the charge of kids begging their parents to let them play online). Where It changed from being 'entertainment' to 'stress-release.' The average online gamer age dropped significantly, and you noticed more and more people that were playing online games just to make other people as miserable as they were (which also comes in the form of "win at all costs." You can see the trend has continued over the past six years, and It's not going to stop any time soon.

    The best solution is to attempt to find players with a similar mindset as yourself, and play as little public games as possible. I used to absolutely love public online gaming, but such is not the case anymore. I play plenty of games online, but generally with the people I know.
  8. rockykabir

    rockykabir hello

    30 March 2003
    London -> New York -> San Francisco
    Liverpool FC
    I never play any of the ranked matches as those are where all the twats are.

    Rainbow Six is wicked online - enjoyed that far more than the single player imo :)
  9. Slobber

    Slobber boycotting PES

    3 August 2003
    Merseyside, England
    Liverpool FC
    More of a single player, than MP player. Too many cocks online for my liking.
  10. Chris Davies

    Chris Davies Chief PESsimist Staff

    14 May 2003
    Tranmere Rovers
    You say that, but it works two ways. If you play a league in PES with your friends, then you play to win (not in a serious way, but in the way that you try to win rather than play half-heartedly). Finishing higher than them is, while not the most important aspect of playing a game, a good feeling! The flip-side is that - well, perfect example is last night. My nephew invited me to play Gears Of War, a game I love. I played on a team consisting of him and his two best friends. You can only talk to the opposition when each round finishes - which is every 2-5 minutes. Every time the opportunity arose, they started screaming "oh my God, you lot are so sad, oh my God you're crap, you're so bad", "who's got the most kills kid", "yeah but so what", "so I'm better you faggot", "shut up shut up shut up la la la la la"...

    I read Paolo Di Canio's autobiography the other day, and it mentioned the (shameful) thrill in clashing with rival football supporters, fighting and shouting insults. The above is, in my mind, the online equivalent, and I absolutely hate it. I don't do it when I play multiplayer offline, and I don't want to be subjected to it online.

    Which raises another point, actually; when you guys play online, do you prefer to use your headset or not? I bought the wireless headset purely because it's a gadget and I am almost literally addicted to gadgets, but I don't think I've ever used it - because if you talk, it turns into "oh my God you cheat, that's it, I'm coming for you now you little shit". I'm really not into all that.

    I like the idea of that as well actually. I'd love to get into an MMORPG - but I'm not into medieval settings, mages and warriors and all that...

    Ad16, as with most of the posts you make, I agree 110% with what you say, especially "when will people play for fun". There was a guy I used to work with (whose Gamertag I still have on my friends list) who spent so much money on games, purely to get more Gamerpoints than anybody else. He would sit and play a game he thought was boring, and complete it, and get all of the special achievements. It was like a second job. How are people so crazy? Why the hell does a NUMBER next to your Gamertag matter? What does it mean? Why are people wasting hours of their lives to make a meaningless number increase (and that applies to the people who cheat on PES, especially the ones who pay for two Live accounts and play themselves, beating themselves 10-0 over and over and over)?

    But strangely enough...

    The reason I like Battlefield is that there is a league system you can climb, something to aim towards. You'll never be top, but you can set yourself goals. When I got into the top 800 in Burnout Revenge, I was absolutely over the moon. In Counter-Strike (a game I bought on recommendation from the girlfriend), I found the whole thing a bit flat; quick and without medals, rankings etc... Which is a shame, but saying that, Rainbow Six Vegas is reasonably similar, and I enjoy that immensely (offline).

    My brother-in-law has reported countless PES cheats and they all still play PES every day. I'm glad the feature is there, but they must get so many complaints that the majority aren't going to be reviewed.

    This is a really, really good point. As I've mentioned at the top of this post, my nephew and his "gang" shout insults at the opposition players as often as is allowed, and you wonder if that's why they play it so often (that and because you can chop people in half). I would love there to be an age-limit on XBOX Live (and on Evo-Web actually), as unfair as that would be.

    I've just realised actually - how come my nephew (under 18 and registered on XBOX Live as under 18) can play a game like Gears Of War (rated 18)?

    As mentioned in my Burnout Revenge example above (and in collecting medals in Battlefield), that's my prime motivation though. I don't want to shout insults at people, I don't want to bully or feel bullied, and I don't want to cheat, but I want a system where I can see myself improving and set myself new goals (that isn't skewed by the heavy amount of cheats).

    Which is a bitch, because if I play PGR unranked, it's great (sometimes), and ranked, it's (mostly) a mish-mash of players shouting "I'm going to cut you down you mother-fucker"...
  11. Ad16

    Ad16 Premiership

    13 November 2006
    I totally understand what you're saying. It can become stale when you are without incentive. There are ranking structures available if you look for them, but they are mostly for serious players and clan members. I am neither BTW, I just play occasionally if I'm in the mood.

    As with most online games, If you don't pick the right servers, you just won't have a fun time. Counter-Strike is pretty unforgiving for new players. And with no general ranking structure, there is little way of really telling if you have improved or not. This may turn you away from the game, or you may like this lack of feature. You could make the argument that cheaters have no visual display to showcase and encourage themselves? It all depends which way you look at it, but it's clear there may never be an ideal solution. The world will always be inhabited by a minority of weirdos that decide the fate of the fair players, nothing anyone can do about it.

    The reason I enjoy Counter-Strike is it's simple concept. Get 40 people from all over the world, give them virtual guns, and have a non sexual gang bang. As for achievement, I don't really look for it, but for me it's getting a decent Kill/Death ratio compared to the good players. This is challanging for an occasional player, and that's normally enough for me to have a good time. Of course, I love winning the occasional round, but this will only ever be a rare occurrence on the servers I play on. I'm not going to invest the hours of playing time that is required to stay at a decent level. It's something I'm never going to be prepared to do either.

    Actually, as I write this, I realise that I haven't played CS:S for quite some time. I can't remember the last time I played actually! Maybe a ranking system would have kept me interested? But to be honest, it's typical for me to get bored of a game after a while. After the honeymoon period is over, I tend to see the bad in it rather than the good. This may be the same with you?

    BTW Jack. When playing Counter-Strike, I will occasionally see someone with the name 'Jack Bauer'. It's likely someone else, but I can't help thinking of yourself whenever it happens. You're not in a clan anyway are you? Oh never mind... just thought I'd mention it.

    P.S, I'm currently re-playing Half Life 2, offline!
  12. Teacher

    Teacher Krèg ut zuâh!

    3 August 2004

    @Jack Bauer: Fully agree with your view on online PES, although I think that the majority of the online gamers do not share your opinion. Probably because of the fact that was mentioned before in this thread, namely the average age of the online gamer.

    Konami is making a big profit out of this. Eventually this will backfire. We as customers are not taken seriously here. They better start cleaning up their act or otherwise people will more and more reluctant in buying their PES installments. With FIFA being the only substitute, my choice would be to stop playing footie consolegames completely. And start playing FM more for example, until Konami is really listening to their customers.

    My prediction for next gen PES is that it will more of the same bullshit that PES6 is right now. More gamer oriented and less simulation. And online is going be dominated by mindless, ignorant adolescents, as it is at this moment.
  13. Chris Davies

    Chris Davies Chief PESsimist Staff

    14 May 2003
    Tranmere Rovers
    Ad16 - again, I agree with what you say totally. Perhaps the reason I like the whole medals side of things is that (in Battlefield at least) there are so many ways of getting them - from setting out to get something, to achieving it in normal play without even realising. Because there's so many, you don't have to play the same way all of the time, and so you can switch to getting as many knife-kills as possible, or planting bombs all over the place etc... Trying to get a decent kills/deaths ratio, as you mention, is something that's pretty much impossible for me. Like yourself, I'm not prepared to play a game 24/7 to become as good as everyone else at it, and this results in lasting about a minute from the start in any FPS.

    I'm on the verge of selling Battlefield 2142, because the last few times I've played it, I've put 20+ bullets into a guy only for him to get out a very similar-looking gun and kill me with one shot. I'm locked-on to a guy and I'm hitting the guy with every bullet, and he's just looking at me - when I've emptied my entire clip into the guy, he uses one bullet and I'm gone. I know they're not all cheats so I must be doing something wrong, but it seems stupid to me (it doesn't happen in Rainbow Six or even in Gears Of War). And if one of those walkers comes anywhere near me, I know I'm dead and it's just a question of how long I can hide. I've even read-up on the weak-spots of the vehicles, but it doesn't seem to make a difference - I'm just constantly dying and it's not fun any more. I feel like I've wasted money on BF 2142, and on Counter-Strike to be honest (the levels are great, and a few of the properly-designed downloadable ones are great as well, but you get similar ones in Rainbow Six Vegas and there's more of a ranking-system to that). Perhaps online-gaming is only for the truly hardcore gamer (and there was me thinking I was more than someone who just liked games).

    I did get Half-Life 2 with Counter-Strike actually (a game I've never played before), and it's currently the only PC game I'm playing, apart from Football Manager! I can't even recall how I've never played it - college must have got in the way - but it's an excellent game.

    I've only had the game for a few weeks and I've only played it five or six times, but that's the name I use. But you can use whatever name you want can't you, even if someone else has it...? That's the impression I got, anyway - I noticed you have an "actual" user name and a "display name", so I gather that if your display name is Jack Bauer and so is somebody elses, you'll either get two Jack Bauers or a Jack Bauer (1) and a Jack Bauer (2)...?

    Konami is making a big profit, you're right, and that's why I don't think there will come a point where it backfires. You can't just stop kids from buying games, as much as I'd love to see it happen - for a start, you can't tar everybody with the same brush, but secondly, games are still viewed by a large percentage of people as "something for the kids". My dad, who is 60 now, constantly remarks that bugs don't matter because it's only "kids games". He's older, so admittedly he's more out of touch than most, but I know people in their 40s and up who feel the same way - that you buy games to shut the kids up but anyone else who touches them is either a paedophile or a homosexual.

    Plus, of course, there's money matters. Kids want games. Kids, for the forseeable future, will always want games. They get money, they want to spend it fast, and if they get enough pocket money then the first thing they're going to do is go out and buy a game, shove it in the console and get online, switching the console off five minutes into a match and telling everybody to shut up. For as long as kids do this, the games companies will make a packet. I mean, look at the next EA football game, UEFA Champions League. There's now a trading-card system. Kids will lap that up. If the kid's not totally into playing the game or managing his team, he will love collecting the cards, and he will tell his mate, who will tell ten mates, and they'll all run out to buy it. Online play on that is going to be a nightmare. But what will happen with EA? They will make an absolute mint.

    This culture is here to stay, I'm afraid. My personal hope for football games is that you can create your own online league, invite and kick out who you want or don't want, set entrance rules (e.g. must have a rep over X%, must have no more than one or two disconnects, must have never been reported for cheating whether they claim innocence or not)... Then you could have at least some kind of ranking system, even if it is only amongst a few people (you could have as many players as you want really, you could have a league of 4 or 24). But I really can't see the current way of online gaming changing.

    I totally agree that the next PES will most likely be the same, which is one more reason that I don't play PES any more (I don't see the point in playing endless friendlies or in a league of thousands anyway, to be honest). I think FIFA this year has been the better game (I think a lot of people are too used to PES to see how stiff and unrealistic it is compared to a game where you can place the ball wherever you want it to go with no restrictions, plus FIFA doesn't have the cheating AI - the PES online cheats are bad enough, the fact that the computer gets 80% of loose balls in ML mode is just laughable, we're supposed to be in the world of next-gen now and Konami are still making a game with PSone limitations).

    But that's another story... ;)
  14. Ad16

    Ad16 Premiership

    13 November 2006
    That's the old unexplainable gaming phenomenon I'm afraid. It's happened many times to me as well. Of course, this could also be seen as the newbie vs. hardcore effect, which may be it's most likely explanation. But then, you like to think you're not completely inept don't you. Before CS:S, I used to play Call Of Duty 2 online, in which this problem was a frequent occurrence. I'm not sure if it was entirely my fault though, because that particular game has completely unrealistic hit-counts. In the end this type of thing can tire you immensely, and so I don't play it anymore.
    I expect you are my friend. Anyone would look casual compared to some of the online players. It's fair to say that the hardcore ones devote their lives to online play. This amount of time adds up, they are always going to be better because of it. As has been said before, it's about playing with like minded people. If you know some, then great. If you try to find some, you're going to get burned once and a while. Eventually you may discover somewhere you feel comfortable at, but it's probably a hard feat. There must be something for everyone right?

    When you play an online game, you need to know that at the least, you have some kind of chance against the other participants. Sometimes it can feel like you're a lightweight while your opponent is Muhammad Ali - no chance. It's just as bad vice versa, as it becomes too easy. You have to have the balance if you want to get longevity out of the game. Something I have yet too find in most of the ones I've played. I'm not picky about this though, it's probably nie on impossible to find the right balance. So in the end you make do. However, this situation could be made easier by the games companies. Just take the example of your proposed options in the online PES league. It would obviously make things better, it's not rocket science, and it wouldn't be hard to implement. So simple!
    I can't believe you didn't play it from the start to be honest. It's a game not to be missed if you play on PC. I also got the Half-Life/Counter-Strike bundle. I actually didn't even know about CS:S until i got HL2, so it turned out to be a pretty good bonus. HL2 was the first game I played, and it's excellent as you said.
    I know it wasn't you now. Because this guy is actually good (no offense intended), while also being a clan member. And you are right. Potentially, there could be ten people all with the exact name of 'Jack Bauer' playing in the same round. Now that would be crazy! :lol:
    Last edited: 14 February 2007
  15. gflare

    gflare Post Count?

    20 July 2004
    MD, USA
    Well, in my experience it hasn't been the "hardcore vs. casual" effect at all. I've been hardcore in the past, and I definitely hold my own in the FPS's I've played before. In the mid 90's I used to play QuakePong with the PC Gamer staff. I led an undefeated clan in RtCW in 2001 / 2002, but it had such a better community in the beta stages (So I handed over leadership and left the clan a few months after release). I played competitive 2v2 matches in MoH:AA and clan matches in many other games (including counter-strike). I've led a guild in both EQ and WoW.

    Aside from the rambling... What I meant to say is that I've become less of a "hardcore online gamer" because the peer interaction is so much more immature these days. I stick to the people I know, and we have intelligent matches against one-another. If the online communities would be more open-minded and mature, I think the "hardcore vs. casual" impact would be less obtrusive. But most players nowadays want to get good at a game for the wrong reasons (example: "I'm the best, so I can repeatedly kill some noobs until they quit." Instead of "I'm the best so I can help lead a team to victory or teach the noobs" )

    I get more entertainment value from losing to a mature player than I do beating an immature one. It just comes down to finding the right people in a place that is increasingly overpopulated with the opposite.
    Last edited: 15 February 2007
  16. deftonesmx17

    deftonesmx17 100% Werder!

    13 July 2005
    United States of Arrogance
    Werder Bremen
    I wasnt speaking about complaints, I was talking about the Submit Player Review feature. The reason I didnt speak of complaints is exactly what you said, I doubt they read all of them. If I'm playing FIFA and I watch someone use the speed trick or nothing but finesse shots, I set them to a negative review and then the next time I click quick ranked match, XBL will try its best to avoid matching me with that person ever again. I'm fully happy with that. I dont need to report them if I can just make XBL avoid them............and poof no more playing against said cheating little twats.

    As for headsets, I wear mine (since its the wireless one) most of the time I play. I have it on mute unless the other person wants to talk and asks if Im there or says hello as I enjoy talking to people from different areas. Now on the opposite side of things I wear it so I dont have to listen to the dumb mother fuckers who sing and just randomly say stupid shit the whole game. Why you might ask; because I can turn the volume down on the headsets and still listen to the game as where if I'm not using the headset, I have to listen to them sing or whatever through my speakers, which drags away from the games sound.

    And I hear you guys about the gamer just trying to have fun and the gamer who thinks they have to beat everyone. This is very obvious when it comes to playing a soccer game online. Every fecking person is one of the following teams online; Barcelona, Chelsea, Manchester United, Arsenal, AC Milan, or InterMilan. When playing FIFA, people who are wearing their headset always ask where I am ranked. They get confused and dont know what to say when I tell them I have no freaking clue and I just play the game for fun.
    Last edited: 15 February 2007
  17. Coopz

    Coopz Retired Footballer

    27 April 2002
    Someone asked the question about using the headset

    well using the headset in some games is essential, like in rainbow six, GOW and battlefield midway while in some its useless like in pro evo, Test drive and PGR

    so its pretty useless if the game ur playing is not a team game
  18. jonestm

    jonestm Guest

    I braved online for the first time in weeks last night and to humiliate the barca cutbackers i went Djuargedens, and used the auto settings which gave me a 361 formation. I beat ac milan, man u and inter and every single opponent said i was cheating. I just can't be arsed anymore.
  19. Chris Davies

    Chris Davies Chief PESsimist Staff

    14 May 2003
    Tranmere Rovers
    How many hours a day do you have to play to get that good?
  20. jonestm

    jonestm Guest

    I'm not that good. Like i said i used the auto settings which gave me a very defensive formation. This enabled me to stifle attacks in the midfield and counter effectively. One guy(club)went ac milan and kept saying my players were too agile for the team i was. pffffft. Another guy(pf5) went real madrid and it was 1-1 at half time. We both texted "good game". I won 2-1, "good game" i texted. long silence. Then he types "you cheat somehow" the disappeared. One guy accused me of cheating then said if i beat him with real he wouldn't be suspicious. I did that but he said something was wrong. I've had it with online. I don't like going big teams, but if i go small and win i'm a cheat. PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT
  21. BumperMan

    BumperMan Champions League

    20 June 2005
    North America
    Legia Warsaw
    Unfortunately online gaming can be done right or horribly wrong ruining the very game itself. Lost Planet and Gears of war are two game that IF fledged out more as single player games could have been monsterous games. But thanks to the addition off online play they were cheapened so that online play can be implemented without lag,etc. to me onlibne play is detrimental to gaming in general as far as game development is concerned. More and more I see less content in games because online capabilities and online multiplayer BS has to be worked in. usually after the fact and after working on a game that SHOULD have had a more better core game. this happens in every 360 game so far. Online if fine for shooters and such and games that the 360 gets as multiplayer games but to make games that are essentially better off as adventure games in online playing fiascos is seriously disgusting.

    i'm old school, sports games are cool online yeah alright fine and some shooters are good online,but i can't condone when a developer forsakes what they have in a good single player and makes that single player experience lacking and low in level count and hr play.
  22. rockykabir

    rockykabir hello

    30 March 2003
    London -> New York -> San Francisco
    Liverpool FC
    The problem with online gaming is that you know that there is someone round the corner who dedicates all their life into climbing up the league tables (either by cheating or not).

    For a "n00b" (in their language), it's quite pointless to play. Halo on the other hand got it perfect with their ability matchmaking service to put you alongside other similarly skilled players. I've had some of the best online matches on that game :D
  23. Chris Davies

    Chris Davies Chief PESsimist Staff

    14 May 2003
    Tranmere Rovers
    Sorry to drag up an oooooooooold thread, but just wanted to say this, and it doesn't really belong in the other threads...

    I was playing Tiger Woods 09 (it's incredibly addictive, so much wrong with it and yet I can't put it down until I've won all the events).

    Anyway, I decided to play online, which I hadn't done before. So I chose "simultaneous stroke play", with four golfers - so that if one or two quit, there would still be enough to continue. After the first hole, #1 bogeyed and quit. After the second hole, #2 bogeyed and quit. #3 was winning up until the 12th hole when he hit the ball into the trees, and then when he got to the green he started using his wedge, pricking about and going over the maximum shot allowance. At the start of the next hole he quit; and the game immediately ended. All the stats that I'd amassed by playing good golf, which was the only reason I was playing the game, were lost.

    I was fuming, I don't understand why the fuck the game can't let you continue on your own and get all the points you've earned. Dad (who plays FIFA/Tiger every day) overheard me and said "it'll be the same with this new FIFA when it comes out", before he came out with this, which I thought was brilliant; perfectly succinct.

    Is it not possible to do something that would deter this crap a bit more than just a DNF rating? Is there no way the console makers and the games makers can work together to try and make it less frequent? I know that they say "you can't tell whether it's their fault or not" but come on. If their internet is always going off, tough. They can sort it out if they try hard enough and if they really can't it's not going to be much fun for them anyway is it? If their ISP is that bad they won't be able to play anything properly.

    I mean, Tiger Woods actually gives you the option to quit in the middle of a match if you pause the game - why? If it's an emergency and they've got to run, A) they can just switch the console off and B) if it's an emergency they're not going to be bothered about losing points in a game anyway. And in the next generation of consoles please put in some sort of mechanism that detects whether they quit, via quitting to XMB/unplugging the ethernet cable from the back of the console/switching the console off at the front/unplugging the power from the back.

    Saying that, then they'd just unplug the router or unplug the phone line - but they'd have to cut off everyone else in the house to do that, so it might still cut it down a little bit more.

    Perhaps they could introduce a gamerzone scheme like the Xbox 360 has now, but a bit different. With each gamerzone there could be a maximum DNF rating (so you'd have noob, casual gamer, regular gamer and professional gamer, with ~100%/~75%/~50%/~25% DNF ratings respectively). Then you should be able to restrict who you play against to a certain group, so that I never have to play games with these total and utter dickheads ever again. (On the PS3 they could just make new user accounts, but they could either switch to the 360's way of doing things - without money being involved preferably - or having some long-arsed setup involving a telephone call to an Indian call centre to verify each account, just to make them think twice before doing it.)
    Last edited: 26 September 2008
  24. Rob92

    Rob92 Guest

    Great post, and a very true quote from your Dad, I fully agree.

    My opinions on online gaming:

    Good points:

    - A human is a much better opponent to play than any AI. Humans react to pressure situations, have varying tactical approaches, have different playing styles, make mistakes etc. As much as AI tries to resemble it, it will never quite get there.
    Beating a person is always more satisfying to me than beating any AI.

    - You can play people from all over the world - in the pre-online gaming era, you had to get people round your house to play them, you would only be able to play people you knew well. Now you can play anyone.

    Bad points:

    - There are WAY too many cunts online:
    People who will use cheat tactics, game glitches etc. to exploit the game to gain an unfair advantage.
    People who quit the games they know they won't win, 5v5 on FIFA 08 is a classic case of this - as soon as someone goes behind, they pause and most of the team leaves.
    People who lag cheat/have crap connections, making the game unplayable for everyone.
    Stupid American kids with high pitched voices telling shite down the mic.

    - Elitists, the people who spend ALL DAY EVERY DAY on games, and become so good at the games that everyone else doesn't stand a chance in hell of beating them at all. They have the attitude that they must win at all costs, as if their life is on the line... Pathetic.
    They should have their own exclusive servers instead of being put with people who want to play a fair game with people of the same skill.

    - Single player modes and AI get neglected because of online modes, FIFA and Top Spin 3 being perfect examples, both have fairly predictable AI with fairly basic career/manager modes, which could easily be improved with a bit of work. The work on the game however, is used to develop online modes (online World Tour on Top Spin, 10v10 on FIFA).
  25. Tim7

    Tim7 Retired Footballer

    6 May 2003
    Charlton Athletic FC
    Totally agree with you guys, especially CB's bit about detecting the method of disconnection.
  26. Carl

    Carl Ban Master Staff

    27 December 2001
    West Ham United FC
    Your da summed it up CB, and Rob makes alot of good points, I have enjoyed Online gaming, but I think more so on the original XB, and then mainly with few games :

    PGR2: Basically the game that XBL was calling out for, it had a great lobby system, and a great set up, and you got a group of regular gamers who you got on with and while there was serious races, there was also the original cat and mouse, and the reverse eliminator, but it really was a great social game.

    Rainbow Six Black Arrow : Twas the first PESFAN vs EvoWeb title, and a great laugh along the ways.

    Ghost Recon 2 : This and the semi-sequel Summit Strike were great games and usually it was a bunch of Evo Webbers playing this.

    Now each of the above titles all got updates on the more recent consoles, but as I got older, and have had less and less time to game, I havent enjoyed online gaming as much. Alot of the earlier days online and everyone used the mic, and nowadays it seems fewer and fewer people do, and I dont find that as much fun, mainly cause you may as well be playing the AI then.

    Also the PGR games never quite got as good an online set-up that they once had, which is a shame.

    I really enjoyed the leagues on here last year for FIFA, and FIFA was my most played game of last year and this year too. I still think its more social to use the mic online, but maybe thats me, I aint played many baby yanks with squeaky voices since HALO 2.
  27. matt1288

    matt1288 B4MF

    4 May 2006
    London, UK
    This is why I tend to play with the same people on Xbox Live. If I play a 5v5 game I will gather 10 people from my own forum or a community I am registered with and arrange a game. On COD4 I always join the same people, and I hardly find a problem until some annoying prat enjoys team killing or leaving.

    I find it on COD4, there is many racists, stereotypes who make fun of me being Asian, and when my friends speak another language when we're host we get some racial abuse (which I won't mention) and say "What the fuck are these people speaking, Ching chang chong" As funny as that sounds, it's very offensive to me and my friends.

    Online gaming is fun, and I enjoy almost everyday with it. However, when games release the issues seems to be alright, but later on after a few updates it seems more idiots start to appear. Probably because the normal people stop playing because of them.

    What can be done about this though? can Xbox/PS3 be more strict with these types of people when you report them. Or will people abuse the system and 'report' you instead to piss you off.
  28. Chris Davies

    Chris Davies Chief PESsimist Staff

    14 May 2003
    Tranmere Rovers
    Yep, I agree. People say some awful shit in there, they will send you threatening messages, but if you report them nothing happens and they only report you back anyway.

    You should be able to forward the actual message so that they can see it for themselves and judge the severity, although A) they could still be abusive in-game, it would just be personal messages that you could forward, and B) I doubt it would make any difference to them anyway. It's very sad the route gaming has gone down.
  29. T Butcher fan

    T Butcher fan Champions League

    3 December 2001
    I only own 1 game (Everybody's Golf) and obviously I have had a good time playing people on here - but also the complete strangers you meet are respectful and you can have a laugh with them too occasionally. That's how online was meant to be.

    But I remember playing Pro Evo 5 or 6 online and it was horrible - almost put me off for life. If I buy the new PES, I'll only arrange games with people I know already - too many twats out there to waste your time sadly.

    I still think online is good - but it needs much sterner policing.
  30. Tim7

    Tim7 Retired Footballer

    6 May 2003
    Charlton Athletic FC
    Yes, it definately needs better policing. Sadly I doubt Xbox would really ban people because at the end of the day it's all money to them :((.

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