No Bundesliga: Official Konami Statement

Discussion in 'Pro Evolution Soccer' started by OPM, 6 October 2006.

  1. OPM

    OPM ...

    2 June 2003
    Konami made an official statement on the Bundesliga situation at the PES European Cup, Dublin, Ireland:

    1st bold part:

    DFL = German Football League does not allow Konami to use the Bundesliga anymore in any way, this also affects any sort of fake teams or fake players.

    2nd bold part:

    The strange part in this situation is that they are coming to this decision now, after 2 PES parts that both included a fake Bundesliga.

    Rumours around the whole tourmanent were spreaded about EA (license holder for Bundesliga) being involded in this - but no official statement from Konami about this, yet.

    At least we know for sure now what the problem is. Thanks EA. :roll:
  2. ThomasGOAL

    ThomasGOAL Retired Footballer

    15 March 2003
    EA can't make good games, so prefer delete or buy the concurrents...
    this society remember Microsoft.
  3. Chris Davies

    Chris Davies Chief PESsimist Staff

    14 May 2003
    Tranmere Rovers
    Konami are struggling, I remember the stutter bug, the throw-in stutter bug and the master league - oh wait, how could I forget that, we've only had it for TEN YEARS. Speak for yourself.

    Anyway, I don't think it's down to EA at all - EA are a company, Konami are a company, the German FA, for all intents and purposes, is a company, and so the German FA are exploiting that. The German FA are copying the English FA by the looks of it; adopting a law that says "only one game can have our license at a time", so that instead of getting e.g. £100k from each company who want the license, they get a bidding war each time the license contract is up for renewal and reach millions and millions.

    I'd say it was more the FA's fault than EA's. But then they regard the license as a business proposition and nothing more (I doubt anyone in any FA's plays computer games), and so the more money they get, the better for their FA and therefore their country, as far as they're concerned.
    Last edited: 6 October 2006
  4. OPM

    OPM ...

    2 June 2003
    i'm just wondering in what way could they actually sue konami if they would use 18 fake teams under the name of german league or kraut liga or they lost WWII-league? nobody could prove that it is a faked bundesliga.
  5. Chris Davies

    Chris Davies Chief PESsimist Staff

    14 May 2003
    Tranmere Rovers
    That's a good point actually, never even thought of it like that. I keep thinking the Bundesliga was licensed... I've been playing too many patched games of WE10!

    I suppose if 90% of their nationalities were German, or something, they could take them to court and say "it's obvious"...? If it's obvious to us it's the German league, even if it doesn't say so, it will be obvious to the German FA and the courts, therefore, perhaps Konami aren't willing to risk anything.

    Perhaps Konami have sat down and said "right, we're either going to lose money by excluding the Bundesliga, or we're going to get sued for including a fake version of it regardless of how fake it is - which will cost us more money?"... "Being sued sir". "Right, that's that then, call the press".
  6. OPM

    OPM ...

    2 June 2003
    most likely. we can just hope konami might invest more in a possible "bidding war" for the next installement of their game...whatever console or version it will be (maybe different law situation for japan? = bundesliga in we10 xbox360?! never thought about THAT.)
  7. :: JJ ::

    :: JJ :: Guest

    Yet more proof that EA are fucking cunts who buy up licences and waste them on shit quality games. *gets off soapbox*
  8. Jamezinho

    Jamezinho Golden Boot Winner

    10 June 2003
    Ipswich, England
    Ipswich Town F.C.
    Theres 82 million people in Germnay, so theres going to be alot of PES players. Will many of them buy PES6 now? I wouldn't if there was no Premiership.

    Why don't Konami just call the Bundesliga's bluff and put in the 17 fake teams (remember, they have Munich licensed). I can't see how the Bundesliga would have any case to sue when the teams are called Ruhr, Neckar and Weser?
  9. TheWolf

    TheWolf League 1

    7 August 2003
    Texas, USA
    Manchester United
    It wouldn't exactly kill Konami to leave more open slots for teams and leagues to be created now would it? Konami don't help themselves at all! They know how big the editing scene is for the games but they continually refuse to help their fans out by providing the extra slots. There are enough editors on the scene to easily recreate all of the leagues available in FIFA but Konami seem to think that dog or horse heads is what we want in the editing mode as an "extra feature"!!!! What will it be this year? Fish heads?
  10. Chris Davies

    Chris Davies Chief PESsimist Staff

    14 May 2003
    Tranmere Rovers
    Played the FIFA 360 demo?

    Nah, it's the same law all-around. A game is a game is a game, no matter what country it's released in - otherwise it would be released in England with the Bundesliga in.

    Also, this was the year Konami had the opportunity to bid on the licenses FIFA had. The deal with EA was sorted in a day, Konami's offer can't have been comparable otherwise FIFA would have got back to Konami and said "want to make a counter offer" rather than "okay, we've had two bids and we're done". Konami will never spend out on licenses. The Japanese gamers don't need any more than they've already got, and that's all that they care about. European players aren't a priority, the game is ported and that's it.

    I agree with jamez's post, if this was out in England without the Premiership, I wouldn't even look at it. Saying that, I'm not any more anyway, ten years of the master league is ten years too long, but the Japanese love that fantasy stuff.

    Wolf, you're right but they don't care about the Europeans and the rest of the world. They make what sells in Japan and then port it to other countries. They want to keep fantasy in and that's that.
  11. :: JJ ::

    :: JJ :: Guest


    I don't like it :(
  12. Chris Davies

    Chris Davies Chief PESsimist Staff

    14 May 2003
    Tranmere Rovers
    Oh! That's a shame, I think it's fantastic! I wonder why half the people who play it seem to think it's revolutionary and the other half think it's exactly the same, surely it can't be both?

    I'll stop going off-topic now anyway, sorry. The German FA are shits.
  13. tobi

    tobi "Pull up from 30!"

    5 August 2005
    Teaching the PHX Suns the 2 min drill...
    Spurs, Suns and Cowboys
    EA = the chelsea off the video games industry.
  14. Jamezinho

    Jamezinho Golden Boot Winner

    10 June 2003
    Ipswich, England
    Ipswich Town F.C.
    But its not EA's fault! Its Konami! They're too tight to spend out on the one thing that would totally transform the PES series for the better. As Jack bauer quite rightly said, their target audience is the Japanese market, and i can't imagine they give a monkeys about the Bundesliga. The finer details of the European game are just not a priority for Konami. Thats why a European development team is so desperately needed - so that a more serious edge can be put on the game for the European market. At present all Konami Europe do is translate the manual into English, as i cant see what evidence there is of anything else.

    But hey! At least those unlicensed kits will look fantastic in glorious HD!
  15. ruffneckc

    ruffneckc Salad Yute!

    27 April 2003
    New York
    Arsenal FC
    I absolutely hate FIFA. Whatever PES or WE has to offer I will always take it over FIFA, even if my beloved Arsenal aren't in the game.

    How are we gonna edit Blu-ray discs man? Probably we won't be able to do patching for awhile with WE/PES for PS3.
  16. po1zoN

    po1zoN Guest

    FIFA 07, although better than when I last played a FIFA edition, is still very 'scripted'. The only thing I'd buy FIFA for is the great amount of proper seasons, tournaments, teams etc but I'll take the PES gameplay over it anyday.
  17. luisportobello

    luisportobello Conference

    16 September 2006
    The "I hate EA" argument might feel good to say, but it's Konami you should be angry with.

    This thing probably hit Seabass and the team at the last minute, they would have had MORE than enough to time to prepare for a future situation like this yet they CHOSE NOT to until it was too late.

    It's the same thing with the English license, if Konami were "on the ball" they would have known EA was going to try to tap up the FA, instead they either:

    a) Didn't know. (read: didn't care)
    b) Knew but decided not to spend the cash. (read: didn't care)

    This situation is entirely Konami's fault, as painful as it might be for some of you to realize, EA has done everything right concerning it's business and it's consumers, it is the ONLY company in this "war" who is giving it's backers and consumers TRUE EVOLUTION.

    And for the record, I LOVE PES, and I know FIFA07 still isn't worth iut even for FREE (I could trade in 10 dodgy games and get FIFA07 gratis but choose not to) but I'm hoping FIFA08 is another story.

    The way I see it, if EA continues like this, and Konami doesn't outlay some of they cash to prevent this, PES will be dead in a few years, gone the way of TIF and Club Football, and every other game that tried to seriously compete with EA.

    And if this happens, it's their own damn fault.
  18. Abhishek

    Abhishek Best player in the world

    29 January 2006
    Yes, I completely agree, what EA has done is business, you just can't let your competitor win over you, you need to try and stop them from doing this, but unfortunately Konami has done none of this, all they've done is sit back, allow EA to buy all the licenses, and try to create Animal heads to plz their Japanese customers with fantasy stuff. Its ok for some of us, who patch, and im sure there will be Bundesliga patches/option files, but the majority of their customers wont be able to do anything about it.

    I still dont like FIFA 07 (ive played 9 halves on the 360 demo), its a good game, but still behing PES/WE, but if Konami keep up with this, I really hope, for FIFA 08, EA buy even more licenses, include more teams, have better ball phyics, gameplay, keepers than PES, then we can all enjoy a game made by people, who actually listen to their customers.

    Shame on you Konami!
  19. Tecolote

    Tecolote Non-League

    4 December 2004
    Deportivo Toluca FC
    This is just like the NFL and MLB exclusive deals we had in the USA which actually killed 2 series NFL 2k by Take 2 (2k games) which was great but worse than EA Madden series and the EA MVP series which was light years ahead of the crap that is MLB 2k by take 2 (2k games).

    the "fault" lies on the organizations that want to sell their rights not on the companies themselves because if the german federation or whatever other organization didn't wanted to sell their rights Konami, EA, etc could use the image and likeness of the players and teams.
  20. timsmith10000

    timsmith10000 LEICESTER CITY!

    18 August 2003
    What I don't get is some crappy football games which are unlicensed, will have German players but instead of Frings you would have Fings.

    Can PES not do this because it is blatent copying?
  21. Tom

    Tom Administratør Staff

    12 December 2001
    Nope, the German Football League forbid them to do it like that this year.
  22. JeffT

    JeffT League 2

    2 January 2003

    So this will affect the German national team aswell and we'll have the equivalent of the "Oranje 01" etc we had with the Dutch some years back or will the players have to be totally fictious with no resemblance to their real life counterparts?
  23. mrblick

    mrblick League 2

    24 October 2005
    i dunno, there are a few german team players that play outside of germany so we could always move them there
  24. Tom

    Tom Administratør Staff

    12 December 2001
    No, the national team is said to remain untouched. Though you still have fantasy names for those players (e.g. Ballack = Kruger or sth.).
  25. NickSCFC

    NickSCFC Banned

    18 July 2003
    Stoke-on-Trent, UK
    Stoke City/Liverpool
    Doesn't help having the German national team in PES having fake kit/players.
  26. winston

    winston Champions League

    7 August 2005
    Absolutely right!

    Konami are the only ones I blame here. It's their fault, nobody elses.

    I have no respect for the editability of their game. They could easily open it up, let us create 100's of blank teams and 1000's of blank players, create our own league structures, etc. They don't do it. That's a major flaw in their game.

    It's their fault but they don't fix it. They try to blame other people and licensing issues. I blame Seabass.
  27. Big Boss

    Big Boss KJH = The Hunter!

    23 July 2003
    The Netherlands
    Ajax & Strasbourg

    I agree mate, but the thing is that Konami were to make an offer in the same amount EA did, EA can always outbid them. The problem is they are BY FAR the richest game developer in the world, so for Konami to get the Fifa licenses is virtually impossible. They would have have to make a bid so high that EA wouldnt go over it, but that would mean a gigantic loss, and Konami are a company aswell, and arent stupid to make a loss like that, just to get some more licenses.

    So the one thing that could possibly happen is that PES loses the War with Fifa, and sales start to decline, and then maybe EA can just buy Seabass'es development team. Offcourse this is a bit farfetched, but think about it, it would mean the ultimate footballgame experience...
  28. Aarfy Aardvark

    Aarfy Aardvark Kobe Forever Forward!

    5 December 2005
    Vissel, PSG, Boro
    a) This is bullshit. And most likely a stupid rumour.

    b) The DFB has no juristriction on keeping the National team and/or leagues out of the game. If this is the case, they will be faked as in previous versions. Last time I checked, the DFB has no law that permits them rights over use of the national flag of the Republic of Germany or any symbol of it. So there is that fish blown out of the water.

    c) Bayern Munich are licensed.

    d) The overall Bundesliga and Premiership license is exclusive to Fifa, meaning that Konami could not feasibly put them into them game at the present time.

    e) If anyone believes that Seabass and his team over at KCET don't care about the licenses then you are wrong. They do... This eventually comes down to cost. Although Konami are one of the biggest companies in Japan, the Winning Eleven franchise is a small piece of that pie. EA has a long-term deal with Fifa (the governing body - hence the name) and therefore the individual organisations within it. Konami alas, does not.

    f) I totally agree about KDE in Europe, they need to pull their thumb out and start to market the game more to a European audience. But then again, Konami have never had a strong base in Europe, so...

    g) Ubiquitous evolution on the PSP has Bundesliga teams on it. As will Winning Eleven: Pro Evolution Soccer 2007 next year.

    h) The people who moan about there not being enough licenses are the same cretins who constantly play AC Milan, Chelsea, Barcelona and Real Madrid on-line. :roll:

    Anyway, this game will still smoke Fifa out of the water, so who cares?

    As long as I get me hands on WE:J-League on November 22nd, its all good in the hood. \\:o/
  29. Aarfy Aardvark

    Aarfy Aardvark Kobe Forever Forward!

    5 December 2005
    Vissel, PSG, Boro
    Its more KDEI's fault as I've said before here. They should be the ones assisting their parent company in Japan and telling what they can do to make the game more appealing to their audience in the west.

    Its not KCET pregorative to produce games for a European audience.

    Never was, never is and never shall be...

    You can blame Takatsuka-san all you want, it still won't resolve their main competitor having a golden-handshake over the licensing of the game.

    After speaking to Seabass and hearing him in interviews, he has done more than is normally asked of a Konami representative to push the game in Europe and make it a viably attractive option (in terms of licenses etc.)

    They really need a European-Seabass at KDEI to make this game work.
  30. 291103

    291103 Conference

    8 December 2004
    No Bundesliga? I will not buy the game.

    If there is a german user on this board, please leave an email address of DFB and we will be able to swear them.

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