Mclaren and square pegs in round holes

[vanzandt]

Do you think that when Mclaren was a kid, do you think he had that toy where the correct shape needed to be pushed into the right hole.....and just broke it by trying to tw@ the square into the round hole and the star into the square hole etc.

Just watched a retarded coaching display yet again from the ginger nut (nut for nutter not for head).

He plays Kieron Dyer as a striker or split striker....why?

Can anyone seriously say that he is a better option up front than Defoe? Ok Defoe isn't getting game...then again is Crouch? No, so why not play Defoe and not Dyer?

Or what about a player like Doyle or Lita?

No doubt in my mind at all that either would be more likely to hit the net than Dyer.

If your going to play Dyer presumably it would make sense to at least play him in midfield?

So we have midfielder Dyer as a split striker, unplayed Crouch up front. We remove our best attacking threat in the first half- Mica Richards and play him at centre back- presumably because he was too effective in the first half damaging the Germans and setting up a goal. We take off Carrick and bring on Gareth Barry as a holding midfielder....has he ever played there for Villa...like ever?

We bring Brown on at right back when he could play at centre- and left Mica at right back....the swich means that brown (crap at going forward) just sits and we have no increased attacking threat.....even with 84 minutes on the clock he doesn't swich them back so Mica can go down the right....why? I mean what are we risking at that stage?

Barry who preumably can be decent at left back or left mid is played in a holding role....why, what is the point given he will never play there long term?

We bring on Wright Phillips who could play as a split striker- even though he isn't perfetc for that role...but no we don't do that we keep Dyer there, do we play him on the right and remove the tiring Beckham....no ww keep an ineffective Beckham on and remove one of our main threats in Cole and put Phillips out of position on the left..

At the end we could have took off Beckham, moved Dyer to the right, kept Cole on and played Phillips off of Crouch or played Cole off of Crouch, put Dyer in for Beckham- played Barry on the left and brough on a proper holding midfielder....

Mclown the man who has no idea whatsoever about the need to retain shape and formation, the man who knowns everything about smashing round pegs into square holes....total idiot.


The positives on the night have nothing to do with Mclown at all.

They were to my mind;

Shorey was brillaint down the left and hardly anyone mentioned it.
Mica Richards was a revelation at full-back
Frank Lampard put in a very good performace for once
Before Carrick was taken off England had balance with him and Lampard..

From what we saw from that England need to play Gerard or Lampard with either Carrick or Hargreaves and stop the obsession of playing Gerard and Lampard together.....Mclown will probably ignore that though

 

[matherto]

Hansen, Shearer, Linker et al were exremely humurous

"bad result, decent performance"
"I think thats the best performance under McLaren"
"we've absolutely dominated the game"
"I think we've played really well, it just wasn't the right result, lots of positives though"

ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT!

 

[Mastermind]

first 15-20 min England were all over them, but once we scored it all fell apart. We just sat back and it was just a matter of time. We created chances but didn't take them and in the second half Germany looked like they were cruising.

Nothing much learnt, only that england aint as good as we think they are.

 

[oNe]

Nothing much learnt, only that england aint as good as we think they are.

Germany wins the 5th game in follow. 32 Years now in England, Germany did not lose.

Today, germanys second or third squad beat england at their wembley? no, i would say its the german Wembley. They beat england in 1996 at the europ. championchips, they won the last game in the old wembley (didi hamann 32m goal) in 2001 and they are the first, who beat england in the new wembley.

The german fans sing "Heimspiel in Wembley, wir ham' nen heimspiel in wembley", i think "heimspiel" is like "kindergarten" a german international word

Germany misses 11 Players, the complete center with ballack, frings and schweinsteiger. Klose, Gomez and Podolski misses the game. And players like borowski or jansen who played many games in the euro08 quali. are injured.

your english squad had at least lampard, sw.phillips, terry, carrick or j. cole.

Germany played with Pander (WHO TEH FUCK IS pander?) Trochowski? hilbert ? Rolfes? Castro??? all newbees, in the german bundesliga nothing mad.

Hitzlsperger normally sits on the bank, like odonkor or friedrich or trochowski... pander never played for germany... odonkor can only run, this has nothing to do with soccer.

what happend, if germany played with schweinsteiger, frings, jansen, ballack, klose, gomez or podolski?

today we see, a artificially pumped up league like the english premiere league is like poisen for the english nationalsquad. Your league consists of
foreign worldclass players and your english guys sit on the bank...

wake up england! Your nationalsquad is not as well as you think. up to 1966 have you nothing reached and since then stood to it you in way or Germany.

and now, go to your sons, give them goalkeeper gloves and force them to go in the goal... your goalkeepers in the last 50 years are awful.

bye,

one

 

[vanzandt]

Germany wins the 5th game in follow. 32 Years now in England, Germany did not lose.

Germany have little to shout about.

You had a great team in the 80s and 90s since they you have been very poor and Klinsman did an amazing job to get you anywhere in the world cup.

The German team tonight was a donkey team for of very poor players and could be hammered by most teams- just not one managed by McClown with half the team out.

Today, germanys second or third squad beat england at their wembley? no, i would say its the german Wembley. They beat england in 1996 at the europ. championchips, they won the last game in the old wembley (didi hamann 32m goal) in 2001 and they are the first, who beat england in the new wembley.

You categorically did NOT beat the England first team.

No Rooney, no Gerard, Owen returning from a year out injured, no hargreaves, no a Cole, no Neville etc etc

So let’s have some perspective. Germany’s second string beat England second string in a game where we had a clown as a manager.

Germany of course have a better record than England, however I notice that in your recent record you completely manage to miss out on the 5-1 competitive drubbing we gave you in Germany in a world cup qualifier. But that is to be expected in what is after all a completely one sided gloating post.

Quite how germany can gloat with such a seriously limited team and squad at the moment is beyond me because they are no better than England- both are crap!

Germany misses 11 Players, the complete center with ballack, frings and schweinsteiger. Klose, Gomez and Podolski misses the game. And players like borowski or jansen who played many games in the euro08 quali. are injured.

Ballack over-rated, frings crap, schweinsteiger crrrap ( Heralded as the new Rooney my arse haha) Jansen???? Gomez??? Podolski average.

The only truly world class German player is Klose.

your english squad had at least lampard, sw.phillips, terry, carrick or j. cole.

One word…..McClown.

what happend, if germany played with schweinsteiger, frings, jansen, ballack, klose, gomez or podolski?

No difference at all because they are all average at best bar Klose.

However what difference if England had a fit Owen and Rooney and nowt else and had a proper manager and you had your whole squad….answer?

It is that you would get beat.

today we see, a artificially pumped up league like the english premiere league is like poisen for the english nationalsquad. Your league consists of
foreign worldclass players and your english guys sit on the bank...

Absolute rubbish- talking out of your proverbial.

There is nothing wrong with the standard of players that is usually available.

The problem lies with having a complete reatard as a manager.

England had a defensive minded moron as a manager for years in Sven and now we have a poor mans version of Sven.

England can only move on once this Clown is gone.

and now, go to your sons, give them goalkeeper gloves and force them to go in the goal... your goalkeepers in the last 50 years are awful.

In the last 50 years we have had;

Peter Shilton, Ray Clemence and David Seaman.

Germany have had Kahn who was brilliant but other than that who have you had?

Schumacker Haha Lehman Haha.

Do me a favour you loon and get your head together because England has been FAR better in the goalkeeping department than Germany over the last 50 years. The only time you have been better is when you had Kahn.

Go and look the opening game s of the season and Lehman cause he is even worse than Robinson and tonight his clanger at the near post was nearly as bad as Robinsons error and in fact his constant running into strikers made for a worse keeping performace.

Germany then….

A sub standard team. When the best players come back….a sub standard team….

A keeper as equally crap as Robinson if not more so.

The one thing I would take from Germany in a heart beat is your manager because our manager is a total CLOWN!!

If we get a good manager we could go places….Germany on the other hand….nope!

 

[oNe]

@vanzandt:

your the perfect example for people who totally overrate england. England won 1966 the worldcup. an then ? England was in no finals neither in a worldcup final or a euro final.

and germany?

1954 World Cup winners
1966 World Cup Finalists
1972 Europ. Champions
1974 World Champions
1976 Europ. Finalists
1980 Europ. Finalists
1982 World Cup Finalists
1986 World Cup Finalists
1990 World Champions
1992 Europ. Finalists
1996 European Champions
2002 World Cup Finalist

-

You are rigth, we beat not the first english team,I regret that. You english guys are happy about the 5:1 in Munich at the world cup qualifiers 2002, but that game interested nobody here. it does not do pain to us. But the last game in wembley is our win. in the worldcup 2002 we go (ok, it was very lucky) to the finals. and you?

you say many of our players are crap... why play we more successful football then england? In the last42 years since your worldcup win against us?

i know youre not in in agreement with your coach. England had good players, but england have no team! TEAMGEIST - thats the german word you know. we win althoug with crap teams. you win not times with a good...


Germany is not in vain the top favorit to win the euro08 at the bettinzones (not german betting, international bettingzones).

you english guys not recognize what happend out of your isle. Germany plays a great euro08 qualifiyn.

your problem in england is, that you even shout and shout... "we are the favorits, we are good, we are worldclass.". NO england. Other Nations are worldclass, like france, italy, brazil or argentina.

You talk only and dont answer at the footballground.

wake up england! and sorry for my school english

 

[vanzandt]

@vanzandt:

your the perfect example for people who totally overrate england. England won 1966 the worldcup. an then ? England was in no finals neither in a worldcup final or a euro final.

and germany?

1954 World Cup winners
1966 World Cup Finalists
1972 Europ. Champions
1974 World Champions
1976 Europ. Finalists
1980 Europ. Finalists
1982 World Cup Finalists
1986 World Cup Finalists
1990 World Champions
1992 Europ. Finalists
1996 European Champions
2002 World Cup Finalist

You see this is where you’re talking rubbish.

First of all I don’t rate England at all, never mind over-rate England. Second of all I have already agreed that Germany HISTORICALLY WERE the better team.

So your argument here is totally redundant and not only that but you are effectively boasting and posturing in a smug manner about the PAST.

Your team as of right now is VERY POOR as is ours; NOTHING to boast about!

If you think I over-rate England maybe you could point out with quotes where I have been over-rating them.

FACT is you can’t do that because I have not over-rated England at any point, you have just ran away with a stereotype of how English people rate their team.

Also it must be said I have NEVER, NOT once EVER heard of any England fan outside of the media EVER talk about England being a good team, never mind a great team, so this stereotype that you are so keen to quash doesn’t even exist!

You are rigth, we beat not the first english team,I regret that. You english guys are happy about the 5:1 in Munich at the world cup qualifiers 2002, but that game interested nobody here.

Semantic, propaganda…..or Lies!!!!

You can choose the expression.

The idea that German football fans were not bothered about getting beat 5-1 in Germany in a crucial world cup qualifier is utterly ludicrous and untrue.

it does not do pain to us.

That is about as realistic as me trying to claim that England have a better record than Germany. I would not be so stupid.

you say many of our players are crap... why play we more successful football then england? In the last42 years since your worldcup win against us?

Your one of these football fans who does not seem to understanding that the quality of a past football team has little to no relevance on a entirely differing team in a differing time.

I have already agreed that Germany have the better record overall. But what exactly does the last 42 years have to do with THIS German side?

You can argue tenuously that it has some effect to do with attitude or such like but the reality is it has virtually nothing to do with this team or the current England team. The past has little influence or effect upon these team national teams and their current strengths and weaknesses.

If you think the best Germany first 11 that you can put out is better than what England first 11 can be put out then that is up to you. Personally I totally disagree and would contend that England have FAR better players but a worse manager than makes it quite close, but that overall England are a better team. Whether I am right or wrong one thing for sure the last 42 years as bugger all/nothing to do it.

i know youre not in in agreement with your coach. England had good players, but england have no team! TEAMGEIST - thats the german word you know. we win althoug with crap teams. you win not times with a good...

If you mean we have better players but a worse team because of a poor coach I would almost totally agree. Although I think you are equally bad because you can’t quite polish a turd although Klinsman tried and came close.

Germany is not in vain the top favorit to win the euro08 at the bettinzones (not german betting, international bettingzones).

you english guys not recognize what happend out of your isle. Germany plays a great euro08 qualifiyn.

I am perfectly aware of the qualifying of Germany and England and other European teams. Personally I do not think qualifying means anything. You either do or don’t, it means little apart from making sure you are in the competition. Qualifying is no guarantee of a good performance once you are there and most teams played in qualifying are turd. The only time qualifying gives you an idea of quality is when a group happens to have a lot of good teams in it which is rare.

The only thing that matter is the next tournament and how you do well there- nowt else.

your problem in england is, that you even shout and shout... "we are the favorits, we are good, we are worldclass.". NO england. Other Nations are worldclass, like france, italy, brazil or argentina.

You’re talking rubbish again. Outside of the media I have never heard anything other than pessimism out of England fans- that has been true my entire life and I have lived all over the UK. I have never heard of any England fan talking about us as being world class, not even when we were.

Your stereotyping of the English is akin to me saying that every German is arrogant.

It is repugnant, untrue and patently rubbish.

England have a VERY poor manager and a potentially very good team, which is not the same as a good team or indeed even an average team. Germany on the other hand simply have poor players and a totally limited crap team.

Stop living the past yourself!!!

Germany have not won anything in quite some time and unless you discover FAR better young players with greater talent will not win anything for a long time.

I know England are shit…..problem is you don’t seem to understand you are as well…but with less potential.

You walked into a thread where the English were critisizing themselves and procuded to tell us we over-rate ourselves...and all because you nicked a really poor 2-1 win.

Your post is pure Schadenfreude!!!

P.S

I have German friends from Munchen, German relatives from Stuttgart....

 

[luke909]

Barry wasn't in the wrong position, he's been playing centre mid since the end of last season.

 

[vanzandt]

Barry wasn't in the wrong position, he's been playing centre mid since the end of last season.

i could be wrong but hasn't he been playing on the left of a narrow midfield. certainly he has NEVER played as a holding midfielder to my knowledge.

Also in any respect he is a far better suited to left back or left midfield IMHO.

Do you disagree or ? if you do fair enough.

 

[Rentalkid]

Well, vanzandt, I don't suppose you know much about German football if you label the German team (the A-team) VERY POOR. Because it isn't. Never was, though "poor" would hit it concerning the squad in 2000-2002. But the change dit happen and it still is happening. Young players really prosper over here and when you say stuff like: "Gomez???. WHO IS PANDER" or "Schweinsteiger: crrrrap" or, best of all: "Frings: crap" <---ZOMFGAREUKIDDIN

...well, that just doesn't show a lot of "knowledge" about the sport.

Gomez, in case you really do not know him, is one of these brillant young players you seem to miss in the German squad. Actual player of the year, by the way. Pander is another future prospect, though very injury prone. Frings is PURE world-class in his position, no doubts. He is anything but a spectacular player but I'd really chose him over Gattuso all the time, and I'm impressed about the latter. Schweinsteiger? Not yet consistend enough but in form = grrrrrreat. You almost absolutely forgot about Lahm and Mertesacker, but you may rate them "crap", too. No comment about that, not even the tiniest!

There are so many really talented players prospering in the Bundesliga right now, so many that are not far away from spots in the national squad. You are totally underestimating them.

But hell, I really shouldn't bother because of two reasons:
a) I HATE this stupid nationality-thing between fans as if they'd win a war every time they grab a win against a rival-country. That's just sad
b) I'm absolutely satisified with the performances of our national side since more than a year now.

 

[lo zio]

i really can't understand what brings some people to write posts like some of the posts i read on this thread.
u guys all love football don't u? u (should be supposed to) understand football...... at least u should know football enough to realize that it takes time to properly rate a player, a team, a national football school, a league... it takes to watch football matches, many football matches. seeing the highlights on tv just isn't enough to know football.

coz usually, when u express an opinion grounded just on the highlights u saw on tv, or on a ridiculous statement said by a journalist or a commentator, u just make a fool of yourselves.

that's not just about this thread, there are hundreds of threads like this on this forum, and that's just something i wanted to say.

watch football, guys... instead of spending time writing bollocks (honestly there are so many laughable statements on this thread, written by both of u, "vanzandt" and "the one", that it would take hours just to correct u).

anyway that's all i wanted to say. i'm not interested in talking to certain people and most of all i'm not intersted in joining this verbal fight between chauvinists blinds fans.

There are so many really talented players prospering in the Bundesliga right now, so many that are not far away from spots in the national squad. You are totally underestimating them.

i don't think he's underestimating them... i think they just don't know them (wich is even more sad).

I HATE this stupid nationality-thing between fans as if they'd win a war every time they grab a win against a rival-country. That's just sad

:applause: the smartest statement i read on this thread

 

[FCH]

You categorically did NOT beat the England first team.

No Rooney, no Gerard, Owen returning from a year out injured, no hargreaves, no a Cole, no Neville etc etc

So let’s have some perspective. Germany’s second string beat England second string in a game where we had a clown as a manager.

who are still missing yesterday in the 1st scuad from england ? gerrard and rooney, all different played nevertheless, or who was still missing? i´ve we played with our 1st team, you can take off wembley again :lol: sorry, but i feel with you and i feel the same as you on the ages Berti Vogts was our coach, he did anything wrong. Klinsmann are bring back the spirit to us.You can have the best 11 player of the world at the pitch, nevertheless give you a garanty that you win he world cup, you need 11 player they believe in hisself and on the team. its all a matter of psychology

I guess Klinsmann are the best coach for england and thats i mean totally serious
good Luck for 2008

@oNe: :applause:

 

[Cammey]

Germany have little to shout about.

You had a great team in the 80s and 90s since they you have been very poor and Klinsman did an amazing job to get you anywhere in the world cup.

The German team tonight was a donkey team for of very poor players and could be hammered by most teams- just not one managed by McClown with half the team out.

Prob. the biggest load of bollocks I have ever read.

 

[cfdh_edmundo]

Or what about a player like Doyle or Lita?

Doyle was playing last night...

for Ireland.

 

[hayabusa85]

It was a decent game, players that stood out for me

England: Nicky Shorey, Joe Cole, Alan Smith

Shorey played pretty well and looked comfortable in both attack and defense and is going to give McClaren a headache as he also has the promising Leyton Baines to consider also, not to mention Lee "The Forgotten Man" Naylor . Micah Richards put in another could performance, although you never would've guessed considering the way the panelists were talking about him during the half time analyisis . Joe Cole played really well too and with Arjen Robben finally leaving Chelsea, they're going to be great side to watch with Malouda. Cole and Wright-Phillips bombing down the wings. Michael Owen may not be at his sharpest yet, but Alan Smith did really well in supplying him with passes and flick ons. Also I felt Garreth Barry played well, whilst you could say he's pretty much a left sided midfielder nowadays his defensive background stands him in good stead and he's a versatile player for england to have in their squad. I also would've liked to have seen Steven Taylor play but i think Micah Richards received a little knock hence why he moved to CB.

Germany: Kevin Kuranyi, Per Mertesacker, Christoph Metzelder

Kuranyi tormented the England defense all night and whilst he was a little wasteful and a little unlucky at times i hope he can become a more consistant player this season. The defensive duo of Mertesacker and Metzelder really impressed me, i hadn't seen Metzelder play since the World Cup and i'd forgotten just how much he likes to get forward, and nearly scored on a few occasions, and whilst he didn't do anything out of the ordinary Mertesacker just looked incredibly calm and composed on the ball. It was great to see Christian Pander score on his debut and i thought overall he played pretty well and like England, Germany also have a lot of good, young side backs. It was also good to see Helmes, Hilbert and Castro get a run out, although Castro came on very late in the game.

I felt they went a bit overkill with the goalkeeper baiting but if anything we'll see more players given a chance in goal for both sides, although i felt Thomas Hilderbrand should've started anyway, as injuries permitting i think it's time Jens Lehmann took a backseat. Inevitably they started talking about Gerrard/Lampard and while it's become a little stale, as i personally think that if England were to field their strongest possible side with both Gerrard and Lampard in the starting XI then i would rather have Gerrard on the right rather than in the holding midfielder role, because International football more than anything is about compromise and if both were to play i'd personally would rather see Gerrard on right when England have players likes Owen Hargreaves/Michael Carrick at their diposal.

It would be a lot simplier if England didn't have the likes of Shaun Wright-Phillips and Aaron Lennon.

 

[Coopz]

Mclarens an idiot, would someone care to answer these questions for me as i would like some insight into Mcidiots thinking

1. why does he bring Beckham all the way back from LA for a friendly match, when he everyone knows Beckham inside out?

2. Why leave Beckham on and bring Joe Cole off who was one of our best players last night and replace him with SWP, then put SWP on the left?

why not leave Beckham out and start SWP on the Right where he is supposed to play!!!!!

3. Why Move Richards to the centre when he was playing brilliant at right back and bring Brown on at right back when he never gets forward and IS a centre back

4. Why play Robinson? Test a new keeper out for the future and Robinson shouldnt be first choice anyway.

5. why play Smith upfront when we have proper strikers in the premiership? Ferguson and Big Sam see Smith as a midfielder, they are both by far better managers the Mclaren so i think they no best

6. Why do i bother watching England when its the same old shit everytime?

 

[Rentalkid]

i really can't understand what brings some people to write posts like some of the posts i read on this thread.
u guys all love football don't u? u (should be supposed to) understand football...... at least u should know football enough to realize that it takes time to properly rate a player, a team, a national football school, a league... it takes to watch football matches, many football matches. seeing the highlights on tv just isn't enough to know football.

coz usually, when u express an opinion grounded just on the highlights u saw on tv, or on a ridiculous statement said by a journalist or a commentator, u just make a fool of yourselves.

that's not just about this thread, there are hundreds of threads like this on this forum, and that's just something i wanted to say.

watch football guys... instead of spending time writing bollocks (honestly there are so many laughable statements on this thread, written by both of u, "vanzandt" and "the one", that it would take hours just to correct u).

anyway that's all i wanted to say. i'm not interested in talking to certain people and most of all i'm not intersted in joining this verbal fight between chauvinists blinds fans.

Take my signature under that!

I mean, really, why is this beautiful sport so often still reduced to hate/anger/nationalism? It's a shame. Of course I'm sad if the team I support loses, just like I'm happy when we win. But hell, never do I felt superior/inferior to anyone because of it. That's just sick.

Can't I be a "good fan" of our German team and still say others play great football? Can't I accept that Italy grabbed a deserved win against us in the World Cup and STILL be satisfied with the team?

I remember coming on here after that particular match and many Italian and German "fans" were ripping each other apart basically just showing off through something others achieved for them. Luckily, there were quite a lot who did not forget what it's all about and congratulated each other on a thrilling game.

It should end in a handshake. Always.

 

[total]

Germany played with Pander (WHO TEH FUCK IS pander?)

This is Pander: http://www.megavideo.com/?v=QWQ7FINJ

 

[ClassicManiac]

@ oNe: How can anyone be that impertinent? Instead of just being happy about a lucky and prestigious victory you go to an english forum, exhibit the German team as world's new number one, tear the glorious english football team into pieces and flout the Premier League? How pathetic are you anyway?
English people could now come up and tell you that Germany wouldn't even have a football team if England hadn't invented the game. How about that, huh?
Don't misunderstand me, I am a german football fan as well. But unlike you I don't insult opponents, espacially not those who have thanked us Germans for the fantastic World Cup summer 2006 right before the match started.
Think about it.

 

[lo zio]

Take my signature under that!

I mean, really, why is this beautiful sport so often still reduced to hate/anger/nationalism? It's a shame. Of course I'm sad if the team I support loses, just like I'm happy when we win. But hell, never do I felt superior/inferior to anyone because of it. That's just sick.

Can't I be a "good fan" of our German team and still say others play great football? Can't I accept that Italy grabbed a deserved win against us in the World Cup and STILL be satisfied with the team?

nice post mate
the most sad aspect is that our prejudices, our "national pride" our ignorance doesn't allow us to appreciate other countries football schools, doesn't allow us to learn something more about football.

anyway i noticed that usually those kind of chauvinist biased fans aren't really sport lovers. they take their national teams victories as their own victories (as they acutally were on the pitch, playing that match), but they usuallly don't pratice sport, they usually don't play football... those fans who play football usually have a different culture, they see football from a different, wider perspective, they really appreciate it; for those people football isn't just a chance to show their superiority (:lol....
but not so many people plays football nowadays... many guys consider themselves sportmen just coz they play pes on their playstations, or coz they watch football matches on the tv (many guys confuse watching football with playing football, they think that staying sit on a couch watching other people playing football is a "sport" :mrgreen.

I remember coming on here after that particular match and many Italian and German "fans" were ripping each other apart basically just showing off through something others achieved for them. Luckily, there were quite a lot who did not forget what it's all about and congratulated each other on a thrilling game.

what a great match that was! Germany played the most beautiful football in europe since the world cup.... actually they are still playing the most beautiful football in europe (i didn't watch yesterday's match, but i watched a lot of germany's matches in the past 2 years).

and i don't think it's just about klinsi. germany national team football is today the perfect reflection of the german football school, an amazing mixture of tactical knowledge and strenght. besides even when jurgen left germany the team continued to play that great football (Loeb is another very good coach... many people here in italy insinuate that Loeb was the real germany's coach even when klinsi was in charge :mrgreen.

It should end in a handshake. Always.

that hug between cannavaro and ballack at the end of germany - italy was the best "picture" of the world cup, imo

 

[FCH]

6. Why do i bother watching England when its the same old shit everytime?

If hope dies, we do not need the football any longer

that hug between cannavaro and ballack at the end of germany - italy was the best "picture" of the world cup, imo

can you post it please if you still got it ?

 

[IceMan_Bergkamp]

Doyle was playing last night...

for Ireland.

yup, i thought that was a real good clanger :lol:

frings crap, Gomez???

Torsten Frings CRAP? mate, open your eyes beyond the red tops.

Mario Gomez... his Stuttgart performances and goals speak for themselves.

However what difference if England had a fit Owen and Rooney and nowt else and had a proper manager and you had your whole squad….answer?

This is exactly what is wrong with our country. We rely to heavily on players as individuals while all the while missing the essence that this is a team game.

Do me a favour you loon and get your head together because England has been FAR better in the goalkeeping department than Germany over the last 50 years. The only time you have been better is when you had Kahn.

Sepp Maier? Bodo Illgner? Andreas Koepke?

 

[Rentalkid]

that hug between cannavaro and ballack at the end of germany - italy was the best "picture" of the world cup, imo

Yeah, I think they are both magnificent captains. For one, because they are classy players of course and on the other side, they'd never do anything to harm the reputation of the team they play in, no matter what.
I was very angry what the Bayern crowd did to Michael when his move to Chelsea got more and more concrete. But no matter what they chanted at him, no matter what the newspapers wrote, he always stood up to the mics and never once lost his temper.

 

[lo zio]

can you post it please if you still got it ?

unfortunately i deleted it and i still haven't found it again, even if i've been searching that pic for a lot of time

Yeah, I think they are both magnificent captains. For one, because they are classy players of course and on the other side, they'd never do anything to harm the reputation of the team they play in, no matter what.
I was very angry what the Bayern crowd did to Michael when his move to Chelsea got more and more concrete. But no matter what they chanted at him, no matter what the newspapers wrote, he always stood up to the mics and never once lost his temper.

yep, u're right, but afterall it happens everywhere.... when toni came in palermo last year, wearing fiorentina shirt, he was booed all the time. it's quite a silly reaction, but afterall that's the "bad aspect" of being passional.

 

[vanzandt]

Ok to answer some more of the jibes that came my way;

Well, vanzandt, I don't suppose you know much about German football if you label the German team (the A-team) VERY POOR. Because it isn't.
.

I have watched the German team enough to form my own opinion of it and that opinion is that it is poor. When I say poor I mean in comparison to the great German sides of the past and to the best sides in world football. Now you can disagree with me as to me thinking that this German side is poor or you can knowing my definition of the poor say this side is mediocre…either is fine. But do not tell me I do not have the right to my opinion and do not assume with arrogance that I have not watched Germany play because I have.

Never was, though "poor" would hit it concerning the squad in 2000-2002.
.

I am not commenting on the team of 2000-2002, you have and that is your opinion which you are entitled to express, just as I am entitled to express my opinion of the currewnt German team. Trust though that I will not question your opinion without any grounds to do so.

But the change dit happen and it still is happening. Young players really prosper over here and when you say stuff like: "Gomez???. WHO IS PANDER" or "Schweinsteiger: crrrrap" or, best of all: "Frings: crap" <---ZOMFGAREUKIDDIN

...well, that just doesn't show a lot of "knowledge" about the sport.
.

I think you have not understood what I was saying at all. The question marks I placed after players where I said who are they? That is a common expression of derision in the UK, asking who are you is to say they are nothing or no big deal. It was in that context that I made my comments. I do not rate these players, but I do actually know who they are. But why pick on me when the pro German/German supporter who posted above didn’t rate the likes of Pander?

Gomez, in case you really do not know him, is one of these brillant young players you seem to miss in the German squad. Actual player of the year, by the way. Pander is another future prospect, though very injury prone. Frings is PURE world-class in his position, no doubts. He is anything but a spectacular player but I'd really chose him over Gattuso all the time, and I'm impressed about the latter. Schweinsteiger? Not yet consistend enough but in form = grrrrrreat. You almost absolutely forgot about Lahm and Mertesacker, but you may rate them "crap", too. No comment about that, not even the tiniest!
.

I know who the players are, I don’t agree with you much.

Certainly Frings is NOT world class, not even close in my opinion. Is he in the class of Gilberto Silva, Emerson, Mascherano, Hargreaves, Gattuso etc IMHO the answer is NO!!! Schweinsteiger is a very poor version of Rooney.

You say I forgot Lahm and Mertesacker.

ERRRrr hang on a minuete because I think we have got a little deep into what I was not discussing actually. I mean did I turn up to the wrong convention or what?

Where exactly was I discussing each individual in the whole German team?

Show me where I was doing this!!

You see I wasn’t doing this and in fact I never did this with the English team did I?

As it happens I think Lahm is very good and the same goes for Mertesacker.

There are so many really talented players prospering in the Bundesliga right now, so many that are not far away from spots in the national squad. You are totally underestimating them.
.

This is the kind of total crrrap that really pisses me off.

I have commented on THIS German team that played last night and the CURRENT Germany team, you know the one that has played in the World Cup and the qualifiers. I have categorically NOT commented on the entire future of German fooball or derided every single German player in the Bundesliga.

Please do NOT make things up and try and paint me the ignorant fool for things I haven’t even said.

You have come at me with pure rubbish.

i really can't understand what brings some people to write posts like some of the posts i read on this thread.
u guys all love football don't u? u (should be supposed to) understand football...... at least u should know football enough to realize that it takes time to properly rate a player, a team, a national football school, a league... it takes to watch football matches, many football matches. seeing the highlights on tv just isn't enough to know football.

coz usually, when u express an opinion grounded just on the highlights u saw on tv, or on a ridiculous statement said by a journalist or a commentator, u just make a fool of yourselves.
.

I watched the FULL match at no point did I state or suggest otherwise. I have also watched ALL of England’s FULL matches and I have also watched EVERY FULL German match in the World Cup and I have watched most of the German qualifiers, again FULL matches and I have watched FULL matches of the Bundesliga.

So what was said was utterly irrelevant crrrap.


Amazing the way I have had to defend myself none stop when in fact I have not once banged on about England, not once mentioned that we are anything but crap. Amazing I have been attacked so much when I was not hyping England in any way, but in fact was criticizing us. I was attacked because I basically said in one post that Germany have nothing to crow about either and putting down a fan who was boasting with smug pride.

I mean how out of order I have been :roll:

who are still missing yesterday in the 1st scuad from england ? gerrard and rooney, all different played nevertheless, or who was still missing?
:

Yes Gerrard was missing and so too was Rooney- that is too massive players missing. Next you have Neville missing at right back, then A Cole missing at left back. Then you have a Michael Owen playing who has been out injured for over a year. Then we have D Bent and Johnson who had to pull out of the squad leaving us having to play A Smith up front with Owen. Smith has been playing at Newcastle as a midfielder. Then we had Owen Hargreaves out injured so we had to play Carrick and then when he was off we had no holding player at all and had to play Barry because we couldn’t play Hargreaves there, we couldn’t play Gerrard there and we couldn’t play Ledley King there either because he is also a long term injury. Then you have the fact that J Cole returned from a long term injury and I think Downing was also injured and not available. Oh and add that to the fact that D Beckham is also carrying an injury and has hardly played for months.

Is that enough for you?

we played with our 1st team,
:

You believe whatever you want to. The fact is ALL the national newspapers in England have been joking that England couldn’t even put a team out for the last week with so many players dropping out of the squad. Anyone who has been in England for the last week who has read a newspaper should be able to confirm this fact.

You can have the best 11 player of the world at the pitch, nevertheless give you a garanty that you win he world cup, you need 11 player they believe in hisself and on the team. its all a matter of psychology

I guess Klinsmann are the best coach for england and thats i mean totally serious
good Luck for 2008
@oNe: :applause:

I agree totally that it is the team that should be key.

That is a reason why I think Gerrard or Lampard should play with Carrick or Hargreaves and never together.

As for Klinsman- he would be a lot better than our CLOWN. That said we would also need all the support staff he had who were tactically very sound in helping him to do well with the German national team.


Yep more people willing to shat on me….I said;

Germany have little to shout about.

You had a great team in the 80s and 90s since they you have been very poor and Klinsman did an amazing job to get you anywhere in the world cup.

The German team tonight was a donkey team for of very poor players and could be hammered by most teams- just not one managed by McClown with half the team out.
.

And got this;

Prob. the biggest load of bollocks I have ever read.

Really that strong hey. What I said was that bad was it?

Can you please list the any great team that Germany has had since the 90s?

There hasn’t been one.

Or perhaps it was rubbish that I was saying that last nights team wasn’t anything to shout about. If so please explain how this donkey side is any good- mediocre nothing more.

Doyle was playing last night...

for Ireland.

Possibly the only fair remark that has gone my way.

I didn’t realize that Doyle was Irish- fair enough. Is he from Ireland or was his grandmother etc….that happens quite a lot. I say that as someone with an Irish father who could technically play for England or Ireland.

In any regard it was a simple mitake.

Mclarens an idiot, would someone care to answer these questions for me as i would like some insight into Mcidiots thinking

1. why does he bring Beckham all the way back from LA for a friendly match, when he everyone knows Beckham inside out?

2. Why leave Beckham on and bring Joe Cole off who was one of our best players last night and replace him with SWP, then put SWP on the left?

why not leave Beckham out and start SWP on the Right where he is supposed to play!!!!!

3. Why Move Richards to the centre when he was playing brilliant at right back and bring Brown on at right back when he never gets forward and IS a centre back

4. Why play Robinson? Test a new keeper out for the future and Robinson shouldnt be first choice anyway.

5. why play Smith upfront when we have proper strikers in the premiership? Ferguson and Big Sam see Smith as a midfielder, they are both by far better managers the Mclaren so i think they no best

6. Why do i bother watching England when its the same old shit everytime?

1….I agree with you.

2….spot on.

3…spot on.

4….spot on.

5…spot on…

Couldn’t agree anymore…exactly my thoughts.


P.S

Sometimes from peoples responses you would be forgiven for thinking it was ileagal to have an opinion. Must say I have be shat on mostly for what was not the case and what I didn't say which is interesting. Also for supposedly hyping the English team and being made out to be one of those scurrousless daily mail reading british bulldog types....quite where that came from from my alomst universal critisism of England came I don't know.

 

[Jumbo_]

I couldn't agree more about McLaren's substitutions and everything, especially those 5 or 6 points quoted in the post above me.

I actually started to write a thread like this after the match (minus the anti-german stuff) but I got so pissed off I gave up and went and got myself a beer!

Seriously, what has Defoe got to do to get a game? He's proven he can score for club and country given the chance but for some reason he's constantly overlooked, first by Sven, now McLaren and also Martin Jol doesn't seem keen to play him. He must be doing something that none of them like I guess?

No point echoing what has been said regarding the use of Richards in the second half and why SWP and Joe Cole weren't played for longer, why Beckham wasnt taken off when he was clearly below par, and the use of Dyer but I agree all the same.

I thought Nicky Shorey was piss poor last night. Final ball was pathetic, he gave it away countless times with wayward crosses into nowhere and defensively he was caught out too often. I do like him as a player but I just don't think he's International class and is nowhere near as good as Cole or Bridge for example.

I thought Carrick and Lampard played well together and this has to be the kind of partnership that we play. Like you said above either Hargreaves or Carrick with Lampard or Gerrard. At least give it a proper chance to work. Not sure why Carrick was withdrawn so early in the game either, he was playing well.

Barry definitely deserves a chance but when he came on they lost their way even more in the middle and he didn't do much to make a claim for a regular spot. We've got too many midfielder all deserving to play but with Lampard and Gerrard seeming to be McTeeth's own 'Untouchables' its hard to make them all fit.

The whole Carragher affair was a joke and is the perfect example of McClaren's man management skills. He didn't seem too arsed when Jamie announced he was retiring but as soon as there was a few injuries off he scuttled to Liverpool to talk him round but with no luck... 'I know I'll tell Sol his career isn't over and he can play again!!'. Yeah, great way to make someone feel valued mate.:roll: I remember when Maccarone left Boro he made a comment about McLaren's man-handling skills and the lies he tells to players which at the time were rubbished but now don't seem to far fetched.

Another point to add to my badly written post.... By declaring the match was more than a friendly and that matches against the Germans are always of importance he just set himself up for a fall. If he'd just said its only an exhibition, a chance to try new things and so on, then the fact we lost becomes less of an issue. Surely he knows his job is coming under increasing scrutiny with every poor performance and another defeat would bang another nail into his coffin.

I cant say enough how much I want this guy out of the job, he's a terrible, terrible manager and is totally out of his depth. The way he seems to pander to what the media wants (drop Beckham/bring back Beckham) and just watching the smug twat go on about finding positives and all that crap actually angers me to the point where i can hardly talk and feel violent when normally i'm very laid back. Shocking lol.

Just wait til Kasper Schmeichel is our new keeper. I cant fucking wait.:roll: :mryellow:

 

[vanzandt]

I agree with almost everything you have said especially on how much McCLOWN needs to go!!

the only things I would disagree with are;

I think Shorey played really well, not sure we watched the same game on that one, because I saw Shorey play superbly on the overlap with col and I saw him set up some great situations. I recall a cross that was critisized because Lehman caught it, but to be fair if someone had of attacked the near post it would have been very dangerous...I thought the cross was good and the support crap. I also recall Shorey puttin Cole in and going on the overlap into abrilliant position but cole just ignoring him and going for a long rang effort. Also thought Shorey did really well in tight spots as well. I am not a Reading fan and have seen little of him and expected little...so I was suprised to see him doing well and have no axe to grind in terms of biging him up.

The only other thing I disagree with is you said;

I actually started to write a thread like this after the match (minus the anti-german stuff)

Please.

People have to be careful as to how things like this are worded as it can give out a totally wrong an unfair impression of someone and what they are saying.

I have NOT said or implied anything that is anti-German and I am categorically NOT anti-German.

I have made comments that about both the England and German teams being poor, that does not mean I am anti-German or anti-English.

You yourself have made comments about the England team being poor, but I will nto say you are being anti-English because you are not.

Everything else you said though I agree totally, especially about Defoe.

 

[Jumbo_]

Fair enough mate I didnt even read all that bit properly cos it was turning into a pointless argument and I also didnt mean it as a dig at your post.

Maybe I'm being harsh on Shorey. I do like him, I just didn't think he was great yesterday. He's one of the first players I put in my fantasyleague team and I can see why he's been given the chance but I counted a few times yesterday where he seemed to just smack the ball and hope it ended up somewhere useful only to find it didnt and he had to chase back and cover the gap he'd left behind him. Also I don't think he was anyhere near close enough to Schneider when he crossed for the equaliser.

 

[lo zio]

I watched the FULL match at no point did I state or suggest otherwise. I have also watched ALL of England’s FULL matches and I have also watched EVERY FULL German match in the World Cup and I have watched most of the German qualifiers, again FULL matches and I have watched FULL matches of the Bundesliga.

So what was said was utterly irrelevant crrrap.


Amazing the way I have had to defend myself none stop when in fact I have not once banged on about England, not once mentioned that we are anything but crap. Amazing I have been attacked so much when I was not hyping England in any way, but in fact was criticizing us. I was attacked because I basically said in one post that Germany have nothing to crow about either and putting down a fan who was boasting with smug pride.

I mean how out of order I have been

sorry mate, but do u really felt like i attacked u some way? coz actually i didn't.
u just did express some points wich sound absolutely unagreable to me and i remarked it. afterall that's why we're here; to share and face our personal views. Reading your post it looked to me that u don't know bundesliga and german football. Coz i think nobody who follow bundesliga would ever say......

.....that ballack or schweinsteiger or frings are crap....

.....that the only truly world class German player is Klose.....

.....that kahn was the only great german goalkeeper......

now u're telling me that u actually follow bundesliga. ok then, that's good for u . but Where's the part where i insulted u? Do u consider offensive saying that "i think u don't follow bundesliga"? coz honestly it doesn't look offensive to me.
then mate what should other people on this forum say about your replies? I mean, it looks like u just can't start a reply without marking your interlocutor post as "crap" or "rubbish". doesn't it looks to you a bit harsh? a bit offensive (sure more than saying that in my opinion u don't know german football at all)? a bit arrogant?

we're all here to share our opinions, it's quite natural to have different opinions, it's sane. what would be the point in chatting if we would always share the same views? But still u don't see many people here marking as "crap" each opinion different from their own personal view.

we just disagree (thanks God:mrgreen and that's all. u don't have to "defend yourself" as i don't have to. just keep "polite" the conversation, express your points, read with an open mind (maybe without marking as crap every statement u disagree with) and u might also learn something new (wich his the main reason why we all are on this forum, i'd say).

if i have to be honest i also (badly) disagree with u when u say that sven is a defensive minded coach. Actually i find funny to think that the coach who invented "the high zone tactic" is a defensive minded coach. i'd rather say that sven's english experience is just a little bad parenthesis in a looong great carrer imprinted on an offensive football....
benfica (1983), Roma (from '85 to '87), samp ('92\'97).... they were all teams who were used to play an awesome offensive football. this man coach many teams with an attacking mentality for more than 20 years, and now you're saying that he's a "defensive minded moron", just coz england played a defensive football for just 5 years????

how many england matches did sven coach in those 5 years? 70? 100, 200? still it is just a grain of sand if compared to the hundreds of matches that he faced as lazio, roma, samp, benfica coach. moreover the national team coach's work is pretty peculiar. a national team coach isn't really a "coach"; coz a national team's coach hasn't the time to teach his schemes to his players (who aren't even "his players"), so it's always unappropriate to judge a coach by his work as a national team coach.

anyway, reading u marking sven as a "defensive minded moron", i could think u don't know serie a (exactly as bundesliga). Maybe u'll reply that instead u follow serie a too (exactly as bundesliga....:roll::mrgreen. But, anyway, i'm not insulting u when i say that in my opinion, u don't know sven very well.... i'm just saying that i disagree with u, that's all.

so don't be so "sensitive" mate and accept the debate kindly..... coz if anybody would be as sensitive as u are, then u would really have to defend yourself from all the posters whose posts u marked as "utterly crap"

 

[vanzandt]

lo Zio

Your main point was that I shouldn't comment and pass judgement on highlights.

That is crap because I didn't do that and at no point did I say or imply that I did that.

That is the point.

The fact is I have made critisisms of both the England and Germany natiuonal teams on one level or another. But people have only picked up on my critisism of the German team and totally ran all over me with unreasonable, unjustified critisisms.

Why has no one critisized me for critisizing England?

You see this is one sided crap that I am on the end of, people have acted as though it is unreasonable and unfair of me to be critical of the German team as well as the English.

Why is it so unfair of me?

Why am I castigated none stop for the right to my opinion?

Again why am I only castigated for my opinion of the German national team and not for my opinion of the English national team?

Is it because I am NOT supposed to critisize the German team, that if I do ctitisize it I MUST be the stereotypical bangers and mash daily mail reading right wing foriengers are all bad up and at 'em bald headed bigot?

I must be that character if I dare to have and share an opinion that is less than good of this German team?

This critisism of me that has ran through so many posts has been nothing other than a crock of shit from start to finish.

I am not the stereotype that I have been painted as in a racist manner. I am someone who has followed the England and German national teams- who doesn't think much to either. Someone who is equally critical of both teams for differing reasons. If I have seemed to have critisized the German team more it is only because of the one sided mails I was responding to. If I was critisized about my feelings about the England team then it would have been the other way around- but no one questioned my critisim of the England team only the German team and that is why it stands as it does.

I am someone who has German rleatives and friends, a liberal open minded person who never talks in simple idiotic bigoted terms and I am not and never had a "we are the greatest attitude".