Loved FIFA 10..now not so sure?? some thoughts

G

goalsies

Banned
18 July 2009
I'm a PES man..up to PES 6 anyway

Never into FIFA...09 seemed ok


Got FIFA 10 demo PS3...thought class

Bought game

Now been playing it a week or so....AND....I really don't know what I think lol

Problems spoiling it for me are:

It's just like hard to get opportunites for long shots...or to score regularly from distance..always crowded around egde of box (maybe Im crap?)

I find that altough I think the moves with the L2 and stick are amazing..I never get chacne to do in game often..or can pull them off often..or are much use...(though with players like C.ronaldo, messi, walcott it seems to work successly more often which woudl make sense ???)


I find the game a lot of passing about the middle of the park...I usually have most possesion wherth online or versus CPU....its always hard to break down other defense behind the ball..alwyas a lot of players

BUT when they steal ,,,they can often counter and get one on ones...or last 2 defenders from half way line..giving them more chacnes even though I dominate possesion...(unless once again Im just crap..But I have ball for spells but never make chacns or find space easy...then they get good cahcnes on counter)


I dont know whetehr to give it a few more weeks for me to improve and adjust as a PES player

Or if reallY i just dont dig the game...and return it quick for money and go back to PES6 with updates on PC



Not wanting a PES vs FIFA debate.....lol
 
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goalgerd said:
im trading mine in next week,not the game i thought it would be
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well I kinda wanna buy uncahrted 2 (and batman)...so If I going back to PES would get some money lol


The demo was cool...animations are cool...multiplayer with freinds is pretty cool....fancy moves in arena are cool....presentaion is cool.....games are a bit dull espcially versus cpu
 
Getting a bit deflated with it now to be honest. I had a cracking game last night but it hasn't kept me hooked unfortunately.

The pitch still needs to be bigger, the game STILL needs to be slower, the headers are just way too weak, the jostling for the ball is too much messing and the keepers are still too dodgy for my liking.

My main issues are the pitch size and speed though, it's just far too manic against the CPU even on Slow speed and it frustrates me that I can't hold the ball, and feel forced to go down the wing for some space.
 
Keepers are my biggest gripe, they just seem to reach too far, and I've seem instances where I've blasted a rolling ball straight at the keeper from literally 5 meters, and he had somehow managed to move his arms up and cover his face in the nanoseconds it took the ball to move the 5 meters. Completely ridiculous how quick they can move sometimes, unlike PES where the goalkeepers move like humans, in FIFA the keeper seems to always have to complete an animation once it has started, and before the ball reaches him, so the animation is hurried up, sometimes beyond superhuman, to get to a certain point before the ball arrives. It's a small thing, but it sucks. Also I still feel like they need to reduce the distance keepers can jump from standstill (I've seen instances where from standstill in the middle of the goal they have made a leap and palmed away a ball that was going outside the post.

Also the animations involve alot of the keeper sort of sliding sideways, and then "snapping" into place to perform the rest of the animation once the keeper has moved long enough where he can reach the ball with his palm when the rest of the animation is completed. Once I've seen that once you realize that the keeper is compeltely rigid in the animations, there won't be any deviation regarding where on his hand the ball will hit for example, since the keeper will snap into place at exactly the specified distance for the animation to match the ball trajectory so that he saves it the way the designers intend. DOn't get me wrong I've seen random things, like freekicks hitting the arm of a humping keeper and going into the roof of the net, but this should be consistent for ALL saves, not have some snap the goalkeeper into place for a surefire save, I want the ball to hit his pinky if he isn't on his game).

Keeper reaction times need to be worsened across the board. I wouldn't mind the occasional quick anticipation save, but overall alot of the time they don't appear human.

Assisted passing is ridiculously robotic and easy, how they released it like this is beyond me. I've played some online games against assisted players that have literally killed my liking the game, since I just can't have any respect for it now that I've seen how it can be abused and exploited with assisted controls. I would preferably like to play semi for passing and manual for throughballs, but it just feels like cheating, pure and simple. Receiving/trapping passes feels too easy alot of the time.

Playing the CPU with a good Team on World Class/Legendary it becomes apparent that they have balanced the game completely wrong. Good teams are disproportionately better/quicker etc than worse teams. They don't resemble their real life counterparts, every thing they do is lightning fast, they ping the ball around like crazy all the time.

The heading system is nowhere near PES ca PES5/6. Why does Supercancel still take a funking SECOND to activate and give you control of the player? The delay must be on purpose, which boggles my mind. Was PES too good in the way that you had instant control of the player when using it, and they wanted to fall short in this regard? WHY? Make it instantaneous!



Every aspect should be dropped back 10-15%. Keeper reactions, game speed, the difference between A 60 player and a 90 player (which is too big on the pure physical aspects like sprint speed, the way they can receive a pass, turn around and strike another pass to a teammate in about 0.5 seconds, etc), the effect of passing accuracy on the assisted passing should be made hugely more noticeable (it isn't at all right now, passes are always perfect to the teammate, if the teammate is moving the passer, no matter how poor, can put it right in front of the player to run onto, every time).


Overall it just feels wrong on so many levels. Too bad PES2010 looks like dogshit (my opinion, but I don't find it acceptable that PES5 looks more organic and lifelike in movements than the recent videos of the release code).

Right now I'm just trying to think of a good game to buy to justify buying a 360 for FIFA, which isn't how I wanted this to end. I would really like to work for EA, because I would seriously like to know what is going on behind the scenes when they release a game where the game design so incredibly favors using assisted controls and holding sprint for an entire game. Fine if they want to play that way, but then their players should be lying down with cramp in the 2nd half, which doesn't happen. They get moderately worse sprint speed, but who gives a shit when they can still pingpong the ball arund with seemingly untouched pass accuracy.


Animations and such for players are spot on, best I've ever seem. Trick stick and skill dribble are awesome (though who decided to give skilled dribble for all players, this if anything is a feature that the defenders in Chicago Fire shouldn't have, keep it for players with dribbling above 75 for example, they can hardly perform stepovers when having low dribble rating but they can shuffle and move like a slow Ronaldinho).


The way they "fixed" the Finesse shot bug in the first patch was to not allow broadside shots to go above headheight from long range, but as soon as you move closer to goal they work like they should and can be struck high. How realistic...? Did an intern program that one? How about addressing the problem, which was that the shooting system was unrealistically consistent and there was practically no human error or deviation anywhere, anytime. Sure it was a patch so maybe that wasn't an option, but for the love of god fix it in the design.


What am I even doing, noone will ever read this... 20 mins of my life gone. Blah, bedtime.
 
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Trance_Allstar said:
...

What am I even doing, noone will ever read this... 20 mins of my life gone. Blah, bedtime.
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I did, partly out of empathy for anyone who writes a small book when they wanted to make a few points!

The reason why the keepers are so good, and why the close range shooting can be so bad, is to mask how easy it is to get a shooting chance in the box when on assisted. There are lots of little balancing choices like this that work in a sense, but not agreeably when trying to make the perfect football sim. The game is balanced, but balanced wrongly. I really think FIFA 11 needs to put a lot of focus on making the short passing game in midfield less about hitting laser guided passes around giant hulks who smash dribblers off the ball, and more about making those theoretically hard passes actually hard but giving those star players the ability to free up some space and use their lower centre of gravity to hold the opposition off.

EA need to make the passing less accurate but more intelligent (so that, if you want to pass to a player with an opponent directly in the way, you can pass it slightly to the side rather than straight at him), and they need to make good defending less about running at the ballholder screaming and more about holding your shape.

T_A, I was trying to get a thread with balance suggestions along these lines re: FIFA 11/12/13. I love the balance of PES5/6 and it annoys me to see neither PES 2010 nor FIFA 10 come close to matching the finer details of the passing system, the shooting and the benefits of skilled but slow players compared to those who are just fast.

Whenever you have any in-depth ideas about balancing the gameplay could you post it (or a link to your post elsewhere) there please? I'm thinking of knocking up a massive bloody paper on what EA should be doing, and it was your post about the shooting mechanics a few days ago that made me create that mahoosive OP!
 
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I read it all man...haha...thats a more in depth review than mine haha

I dunno I just dont see myself playing it more than PES 6 on PC (or PES5..whats better?)..therefore woudl rather get money back as it was 40 notes.

I really wanted too love it...the demo gave great hope....because PES is stuck in a 5 year old game engine....no way I will be getting PES 2010...I wanted something new...Im getting bored even with was the ultiamte footy game (pes 5/6?)

I am only going to play 1 footy game and I really wanted a new one....BUT I have given it a fair go and altoguh it doesnt majorly suck liek old fifa games will I play it rather than an updated PES 6....I dont think I will?

I wanted to give it more time and more effort...But for everthing it has going for it when it comes down to playing the game it just lacks...FUN!!...its more of a choir to play and try and score...pes its fun and screamer goals will always coem and give you great pleasure haha

A key element of any game, epsecially a sports simulation.....

PES 6 may be more arcadey as FIFA has made a good job of making many aspects of the game seem realistic and has a much improved gfx and physics engien than old PES games....But you cant beat the goals you can score on PES for fun....mayeb OTT..but 30 yard volleys...curlers from angles at 25 yards...overhead kicks in box..diving headers...

FIFA seems to only get cahcnes when you get thorugh 1 v 1 or get lucky breaks inside or around the edge of the box....there is never any time or space to get in shots from distance...and I dont think the shooting system is all that good....

Plus I seem to haev issues with the cameras...Dyanmic is good for using skills and dribbling but crap for passing and knwoing what is going on in hte game..so usless.

Other cameras from distacne give a better view of field of play but dribbling and using special skills is useless as you are too far out to see exaclty wht twinkle toes is doing..? haha
 
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Playing it, enjoying it, not as much as I would if MM wasn't bug addled, untested, released when pre-beta mode piece of shit, hoping the update fixes the majority of the main issues with the mode.
 
It's going when Uncharted 2 comes out, it's just piss poor unless you play with your friends.

The AI is just appalling, and it makes for a buggy, mind numbing game against them. I have no desire to play against randomers on Xbox Live either.

All the things that eventually pissed me off with FIFA 09 (I love that game at first) are exactly the same here, and it really doesn't feel any different in the slightest, so basically feels like I've been mugged by EA for some new kits and Ronaldo being at Real Madrid (which I don't particularly like to begin with :P)
 
I love it online. The trick stick so good. In 09 I never used tricks. In Fifa 10 I use it all the time with the right players. Beating players with tricks is just dope.
 
Since i stop playing it with passing, shooting an crossing on manual I'm back in love with it. I play it on semi now and most of the frustrating things are gone. Even crossing works and i have seen some beautiful headers. Now i thing a good header really depends on a good crossing and it is a timing thing.

Don't have much problems with the keepers (read it too Trance) but of course i still play most of the time on Pro difficulty. I believe i could change on worldclass. Even on Pro they have some super saves but i score a good mix between distance shoots, headers, an shoots from a close range (though i still missing some more variation in scoring). Lets see how i feel in a few days after i change to worldclass.

It is a very good game, maybe second surly third best i have ever played, right after PES5 (and PES6). There are so much great things in this game (animations are superb, the greatly improved ball-physic, the new skill dribble, the skill stick, the physical part of the game, maybe the physical part is what i love most). This Game make so much things so very right.

But on the other side, this game has some serious faults. Online it's still a joke because of the stupid pressure without getting exhausted and without getting booked for running straight into your opponents player. Furthermore it's way to open without a real midfield-game. It's end to end - one counter after another. This is a serious AI problem online and offline.

Offline they have killed the Manager Mode and that really hurts. Playing against the CPU hurts too because of the terrible Ref and the decent AI (until you change formations and tactics what makes it a little bit better. But you can't do it for all teams and you shouldn't do it, because it's EAs job).

But offline against mates and online against mates this game is wonderful really. For me it's the first FIFA game that i can't stop playing (especially against my mates). The first time i feel something like the old PES-feeling. I was completely addicted to PES5 and i loved PES6 too (though PES5 was way better). FIFA10 comes close to this feeling but only if you play it against the right guys or after the right changes (singleplayer editing) and with the intention of playing real football. But unfortunately you can't have fun by saying "come on lets get online play some random people and enjoy this game". That just don't work. I'm in love yes, but i'm not totally addicted. That's how i would describe it.
 
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No game to play???

I'll be honest though...I cant really be bothered playing PES6 even with the latest patches

It is a great game but man I've been playing like 5 years now...It's just boring after a game or two...and no mates online anymore


If I can't get into this new FIFA then I find myself without a footy game

Thats why I am trying to give more tiem to adjust coming from a PES background

Hoping that the more I play the more I'll get into it and the controls and become a better player and enjoy it more...or maybe I am just dreaming....
 
Ive heard from someone on the EA forum thats he found out that custom tactics are set to 70 and you must fix them like 70 on agression is way to much so reduce it to 30-35 and defend deep mean lower team defender deep and space become hard to find but atleast you have some time on the ball instead of constant pressure so you have no choice but to play ping pong style...
 
Play it the right way and you'll love it. The wrong one and its awful.

Semi Assisted or Manual are both ways to play the game really. Assisted can really kill your feeling for the game. I enjoyed 09 a lot, probably won't last as long as 09 this but that's not cause its not as good but theirs not much more they can do to what is already NextGen "Peak" for Football games IMO
 
I'm loving this game at the moment and its really taking up a lot of my spare time. A little too much if I'm being honest. The last game to do that was when Gears Of War 2 came out last year. But its still annoying that theres little things here and there that can still be fixed very easily.
Some of the most important things it's lacking is player individuality. Being a life long PES fan who has jumped over to FIFA (atleast for now, lets see where this goes), player individuality is something that's really missed, not just for the sake of it, but also cuz it gives all the teams in the game a soul. Maybe I'm not playing at a high enough level to notice the importance of stats in FIFA but in PES games, every club felt very different because of the star players they had and how influencial their strengths and weaknesses were. You couldnt play with Chelsea the same way you'd play with Barcelona cuz they actually were totally different sides. And it also added an extra element to your tactics too. Not just your own but also your opponents, so you'd have to see how they were gonna play and try to counter it with markers or different formations. Like if someone put Messi on their left wing, you'd automatically think you need to mark him tighter, maybe even use two markers.
I dont really get that with FIFA online. I already know how I play. I dont even bother fiddling with the formations much. I just do my thing and let the opponent do theres. Cuz it doesnt really matter to me if I'm facing Real Madrid or Barca. I just look at the opposing teams star rating and think "ok, thats a 5 star team. I'll have to bring my A game". Thats pretty much all the planning I do.

The game has a brilliant engine behind it, it just needs a soul to go with it.
 
RuneEdge said:
I'm loving this game at the moment and its really taking up a lot of my spare time. A little too much if I'm being honest. The last game to do that was when Gears Of War 2 came out last year. But its still annoying that theres little things here and there that can still be fixed very easily.
Some of the most important things it's lacking is player individuality. Being a life long PES fan who has jumped over to FIFA (atleast for now, lets see where this goes), player individuality is something that's really missed, not just for the sake of it, but also cuz it gives all the teams in the game a soul. Maybe I'm not playing at a high enough level to notice the importance of stats in FIFA but in PES games, every club felt very different because of the star players they had and how influencial their strengths and weaknesses were. You couldnt play with Chelsea the same way you'd play with Barcelona cuz they actually were totally different sides. And it also added an extra element to your tactics too. Not just your own but also your opponents, so you'd have to see how they were gonna play and try to counter it with markers or different formations. Like if someone put Messi on their left wing, you'd automatically think you need to mark him tighter, maybe even use two markers.
I dont really get that with FIFA online. I already know how I play. I dont even bother fiddling with the formations much. I just do my thing and let the opponent do theres. Cuz it doesnt really matter to me if I'm facing Real Madrid or Barca. I just look at the opposing teams star rating and think "ok, thats a 5 star team. I'll have to bring my A game". Thats pretty much all the planning I do.

The game has a brilliant engine behind it, it just needs a soul to go with it.
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exaclty...all the players may as well be called joe bloggs and teams play in a 4-4-2...

In PES you go oh sheit when the oppostion has C.ronaldo or messi on the ball on the wing

Or when saviola or Martins has a counter break from the half way line

OR you go fooook when Juninho steps up to take a free kick....Or when gerrard or Lampard get the ball 35 yard from goal in the middle of the park

etc...etc....

PLus yu know which teams are gonna haev a strong backlne or play with width and fast wingers or through the centre etc...etc..


I dunno whetehr to keep or sell this
 
Exactly. In PES I can almost only score freekicks with the "freekick specialists". In FIFA I can score with pretty much everyone.

I think the only part of player individuality that FIFA has right is when you're jostling for the ball. In PES it just seems too scripted where as in FIFA its all down to player height, strength and your own positioning of the player.
 
RuneEdge said:
Exactly. In PES I can almost only score freekicks with the "freekick specialists". In FIFA I can score with pretty much everyone.

I think the only part of player individuality that FIFA has right is when you're jostling for the ball. In PES it just seems too scripted where as in FIFA its all down to player height, strength and your own positioning of the player.
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yeh I noticed like Ibrahimovic was so good cause how big and strong...really thats the only adavantage individually between players I noticed

Well I guess messi, ronaldo, walcott etc...seem to be a bit faster and better at skilled moves and dribbling...but there is not so much off significane for star players like PES (and reality)...

Also in PES if I get gerrard, lampard, kaka, juninho, etc...with the ball within 30yrds of goal..I know if I make a bit space I can fire in a great effort...
 
Tbh I understand were you guys are coming from, being a MM player Im kinda waiting for the patch to really get stuck in. SO at the moment Im in limbo, I still like the game, but at the same time it's nagging away with its faults/bugs. Instead of playing as much Ive been messing around with the custom tactics/formations for the AI teams and it seems to bring the game to life, well that's maybe a bit OTT, but from the edits Ive done players really start to show their skills, weakness, as the formations/tactics actually play to their strenghts instead of being some generic 4-4-2 with too high a defense and too much pressure.

Admittedly we shouldnt even have to do it, but if you get a chance have a look in the single player experience thread and give the Ars-Bolton one a try. Might make you enthousiastic again, atleast for the single player experience. Ive been really pleased/impressed with how big the effect is.
 
goalsies said:
I'm a PES man..up to PES 6 anyway

Never into FIFA...09 seemed ok


Got FIFA 10 demo PS3...thought class

Bought game

Now been playing it a week or so....AND....I really don't know what I think lol

Problems spoiling it for me are:

It's just like hard to get opportunites for long shots...or to score regularly from distance..always crowded around egde of box (maybe Im crap?)

I find that altough I think the moves with the L2 and stick are amazing..I never get chacne to do in game often..or can pull them off often..or are much use...(though with players like C.ronaldo, messi, walcott it seems to work successly more often which woudl make sense ???)


I find the game a lot of passing about the middle of the park...I usually have most possesion wherth online or versus CPU....its always hard to break down other defense behind the ball..alwyas a lot of players

BUT when they steal ,,,they can often counter and get one on ones...or last 2 defenders from half way line..giving them more chacnes even though I dominate possesion...(unless once again Im just crap..But I have ball for spells but never make chacns or find space easy...then they get good cahcnes on counter)


I dont know whetehr to give it a few more weeks for me to improve and adjust as a PES player

Or if reallY i just dont dig the game...and return it quick for money and go back to PES6 with updates on PC



Not wanting a PES vs FIFA debate.....lol
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mate I felt the same way until last night. I went into an offline game and edited the base positons of some of my players slightly and since I have done this the game has completly changed for me I can open up defences and defend better and pass better and have scored some pretty sweet goal online and offline. try it and see if it helps

i'll give you a online game.

discodamo
 
So you guys are saying you have to edit postions and stats of each team in game?

Or you edit your team before you play every game? that would be annoying

What exactly...step by step should I do to enhance game?


Also is the game best played on slow, normal, fast in your opinions

PS- Ill check the other threads going ong..soz if its all in them
 
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you don't need to edit stats.

All you need to do is custom a formation that suits you then save it. Then each time you play select that custom formation. Thats what i have been doing and its no hassle.

discodamo
 
damianpadden said:
you don't need to edit stats.

All you need to do is custom a formation that suits you then save it. Then each time you play select that custom formation. Thats what i have been doing and its no hassle.

discodamo
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oh rite cool

But thats kinda 1 dimensional...1 tactic/foramtion for all games for all teams...I guess that is what we are saying about PES you can win with chelsea or barcelona or Man utd or Juventus but each game will be won in a different style of play due to teams players and foramtions....

In the other thread soemone was going on about editign all teams stats and stuff...????
 
I'll have a look into formations and all that, and I can see how it might change the way different teams play. But I cant see how it will effect individuals in the game.
What I mean by that is, lets say I edit Barca to emulate their style of play. Maybe when I play against Barcelona it will actually feel like Barcelona. But if I was in Manager Mode and signed a few Barca players, it probably wont feel like I signed those players. It'll just be like signing some generic players. I'll give it a go anyway and see what happens.

I've been spending about 80% of my playing time with my Virtual Pro though, which is quite addictive. I've spent hours trying to get all the accomplishments and have been working my off the ball movement, using the trick stick, and passing/shooting aiming.
Its funny cuz I'll spend hours and hours of playing time controlling just one player on the pitch, which can get a bit frustrating when your CPU controlled teammates let you down. But the practice you get for individual player control is great.
 
I hate having to get the achievements in Virtual Pro to be honest.

It's all too rare that your AI teammates will do the right thing for you to accomplish certain things.

And I hate the fact it still won't give me the achievements for finesse shots outside the box even though I've scored ten of them. Seems to do that with quite a few of them and I don't know what I'm doing wrong.
 
@ Goalsies,

What we are doing at the moment is creating a list of generic team styles (might end up being 10 or so different ones) based on real teams. So we have a generic tactic that replicates Arsenal's playing style, or Bolton, or Villa, etc. Then you can assign these generic tactics/formations to the correct teams. So when you play them they will have one of the tactics/formations as their standard.

Now when I AI vs AI a friendly with Arsenal - Bolton, Arsenal will dominate possesion and play loads of intricate passes with players moving all of the attackign 3rd of the pitch, whilst Bolton sit back and have about 8 men aggresively defending with Davies and Elmander up front trying to do something with the longballls, clearances. When you do that you see how strong Davies is, and how good he can header a ball. At the same time you see how intricate the Arsenal attackers can pass the ball. It that regard it really brings out player attributes imo.

However like Rune said, if you sign a player to your own team and you don't utilies him the effect will diminish. Although I can notice a big difference between players, it should be more imo, but it's a step in the right direction. But then I only play in the top leagues.
 
ok cool...I get you...really EA should've had this already?


Like here I go again but In PES it's already like that you know all the teams play different styles

(And you know when you sign Robinho or Messi or a fast winger for your master league team...to put him out wide and then use as your main outlet...Or if the oppostion has a fast forward martins, owen etc..you need to watch your backline....)
 
I am sick of FIFA 10, the AI is really shite and predictable.

The online element is the same as it always has been with the best couter attacker winning and no really any good build up play needed you cant do what PES used to be about and grind a team down.

The cheat half way line goal from FIFA 09 has been replaced with another cheat goal, which with a decent player goes in 8 times out of ten.
This is just FIFA 09 with some bugs changed for other bugs it is not the improved game I was hoping it would be they seemed to have hit the limit with '09 and now are happy to release crap.

Also online like all the others I have only played about 25 games online but so far have only played 3 teams.
 
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