Konami it's time to listen - ***Big rant on the Master League** Massive post - Sorry!

Discussion in 'Pro Evolution Soccer' started by killercam, 26 February 2006.

  1. killercam

    killercam Shady

    18 December 2003
    Time for a change Konami and it really is time to listen

    Now listen I know the ml has been with us for some years now - it's been great purchasing players, building up your team, getting your team promoted, working hard to buy your first legit player, playing with the likes of Da Silva, Ragnotti, Castello/Castoro, Volander Etc, the joy of getting promoted, the heartbreak of losing out on promotion, winning cups and leagues so you can splash out on Roberto Carlos (yep we've all been there) and even in these past couple of releases you can play as an original team which is great no doubt. It was a good idea by Konami - but now it’s time for a change.

    What I’m saying is ml should be completely scrapped yes I did say scrapped, got rid off, thrown in the rubbish - I’m sorry there's a certain excitement that us pro evo players crave - I’m talking about hardcore football fans who want everything replicated as in real life not some shoddy unrealistic leagues - we want real football.

    Now what I’m about to say may shock some of you but it's been a long time coming imvho.

    The ml is a joke - Do Konami think that we're really satisfied with a couple of 'improvements' in the ml - I tell you what's wrong with the current system from start to finish.

    The Leagues

    1) For a start Division 2 - 8 teams, division 1 -16 teams - if you're gonna do a league Konami then at least have the correct amount of teams in it - 20 teams. And Maybe a sub division with 8 - 12 teams (because I know it's asking alot to have 20 top tier and 20 second tier teams). I mean big division 1 teams like reading, sheff utd, Leeds is in there.

    2) Wefa championship the champions league Ok so you’ve just won the league with your team ,let’s take Spurs for example, and you’re all set to go in the Champions league next season, the draw is made and you’re sitting there to see whose group you’re in ‘could it be Porto, Villareal or even a super power full team like Juventus but no whose in you’re group. Arsenal who you played 4 times last season twice in the league, twice in the cup, Aston Villa and Chelsea – Yea - great champions league when it’s all English teams Ok you get over this and realise you’re be playing European teams if you get through to the knock-out stages. You play the first game…….. In the daytime! In a half empty stadium

    A bit of variety Konami – bit of choice, keep it exciting ffs. Why not replicate the full champions league meaning preliminary rounds, group stages, knock out stages all the way to the final, and just change the name because off all the license bs.

    The Transfer Policy

    1) The whole transfer policy needs to be replaced if you ask me and the one thing that stands out is that when you bid for a player and it’s been rejected you’re not a given a reason, so you don’t know whether it’s the player wages, the contract or the transfer fee. How many times have I bidded for Adriano to only see rejected and I’d like to know why – is my team not big enough, am I not offering enough money What is it?….

    2) Real Money! Any danger Konami - or at least Euros so we can work out a players price tag. Whose fed up of pts "Ronaldinho is worth 1267 pts and his YEARLY salary is 1142" No he's not!!, YEARLY let's be realistic now I’d rather see Ronaldinho £65m WEEKLY salary £95,000 or something like that, a bit of research on player values and wages would be great.

    3) I don’t know if this applies to everyone but I play on 6* so I don’t know if the conditions are different but when I put players on the transfer list I don’t get teams coming in for them what is the point? Same for loans I’ve had many youngsters the Orreano’s/Soler’s etc but they can’t get into the 1st team due to better players in from of them. I want them to go and get some experience and come back a better player but no I’m waiting for offers (which they should be available for the whole season not just the end)

    4) Realistic transfers from the cpu teams – Come on I hate this I really do. I remember on one ml I was playing with Valencia, AC Milan decided to buy Dean Marney and he played against me Needless to say he played pants. On another one Real Madrid bought Robbie Savage (I’m not lying) AS IF that would happen and it takes away the realistic feel of the game. I’ve lost count the number of times I’ve lined up with my Barca team ready to take on Real Madrid when someone’s in their starting line up who shouldn’t be there.

    5) Funds – you can start with 5000, 8000, 12000, 30000 pts……… What complete crap! Get Rid - Real money is the key, how about if you’re a team like Lazio – they’re bankrupt so they don’t have much funds – something like £3m - £5m per season or like chelsea who have a unlimited resources they’ll start with £130m something simple like that – all it needs is a bit of research.

    6) Player contracts – I don’t see why we can’t renew them when they’re halfway through it or when you want to tie them down for a mega deal – But we have to wait until their contract runs down

    Master League in general

    1) Players need to get unhappy if they don’t play. In a season I had words class players sitting on the bench. Ronaldo only managed to play about 10 games – do you think he’ll stand for that – come on, at then end of the season he was begging for a new contract because his contract was in it’s last year so I gave him 10 more pts and he was happy. Yea real realistic Konami.

    2) The fatigue system is quite a good idea but it’s flawed Why Keepers get tired I’ll never know because they don’t do anything – High stamina players like Gatuso and Lampard get tired once in a while – like this would happen in real life. Players with low stamina obviously need resting but not every 3 games – it’s a joke.

    3) The whole training system need a revamp – The regulate condition need not be there (Imo arrows need to be replace by a player morale/confidence stat). At the end of the season you can either play friendly matches or train your team – why not both? One thing I do like atm is the fact that you can give players personal training but why can’t we do that throughout the season? I would love for this to happen – Players should pick up injuries in training as well.

    4) National squad call ups *evil stare at konami* Whoever put this in TAKE IT OUT I beg you it’s just silly, which European country plays during the season (unless you have an international break) when they come back, they’re mashed and you have to wait about 2-3 games until they’re fit again

    5) The point Ranking system needs to be changed Because 1) the match ratings are wrong so it’s never gonna be correct and they need to have rating for each league, then have ratings for Europe and so on.

    5) I like the idea of players retiring but per...lease why do they appear next season as a 17 year old. At least change their name - This needs to be sorted, I don't mind new players coming through but no regens.

    6) Get rid of ledgens I can't stand the idea of Pele and Best running rings around Rio Ferdinand - they have no place in th eml

    7) Lastly the vastly over-rated and unrealistic experience points system. Firstly it’s been improved no from last year (Thankfully) but there are still areas of work they need to concentrate on.

    You get more experience points playing in the league than the Champions league and the Cup. IMO you should only get a small amount of exp. points when you play in the league games and get bigger points in the cup semi-finals and Finals and in the Champions League – certainly against the bigger teams
    When you get exp. points only certain stats go up – why doesn’t the weak foot acc/freq. change or consistency/condition change depending on how they’ve been playing what about their injury setting – why can’t this increase and decrease depending on how many times they’ve been injured through the season. Why can’s they gain special abilities – If you train a player enough in training to break the offside trap then depending on his exp points he would have lines etc. Countless possibilities

    We need a proper season, proper meaning premiership, la liga, Serie A, Ligue 1, bundesliga etc to coincide with eachother. Proper meaning if you're playing premiership 20 teams, 38 games, F.A cup and Carling cup included same with la liga - 20 teams, 38 games copa Del Rey. Then we have the Champions League, UEFA cup, Intertoto cup, super cup etc as in real life. I think they need to follow the example of Championship manager now that would be cool

    Now I’ll probably get flamed for this some may agree with me and some may not but it had to be said

    *Awaits go and play F*fa responses*


    btw I posted this on pesfan - I am Shady Dan over there so it's not copied
  2. Stan

    Stan Allez les Lionceaux !!!

    12 September 2002
    I like the ML..there's a very large margin to perfect it, but i and thousands (millions??) of others like it...so please Konami just alter it but don't get rid of it...
  3. Pekil6ust

    Pekil6ust League 2

    28 June 2005
    Estonia, at school!
    Real Madrid
    Re: Konami it's time to listen - ***Big rant on the Master League** Massive post - So

    I like all your points. Can't remember anything more worth mentioning.
  4. killercam

    killercam Shady

    18 December 2003
    I forgot the lack of rain and snow aswell!
  5. PetrovLFC

    PetrovLFC Raul!

    13 March 2005
    NW London
    I'd have to agree. Just because the ML system is classic, its still poor with regards to FIFA and SWOS's career modes.

    We should be drastically improving the ML rarther than just adding a few tiny, un-noticable, farcical things.
  6. kazierkit

    kazierkit Conference

    20 August 2005
    At first i was pissed off, thinking, not another moaner but your points are pretty good. ML needs a major revamp for PES6, it would make this game even more awesome and hopefully finally leave Fifa flat on its ass.
  7. wutang_04

    wutang_04 Killa Bee.

    28 March 2005
    Thats good feckin points there mate. A good read as well :). i like ur writing flair, if only konami had that flair in their master league haha.
  8. PLF

    PLF Legend

    2 August 2004
    All your points are valid man and I think 90% of us who want realistic gaming want those proper league structure and proper entry to WEFA cup and basically everything you mentioned, but it's just that I don't see this doing any good! :/

    It's been said by me several times in similar long posts and everyone seeing they agree then and most are gonna agree now as well.. but what happened? It seems Konami just doesn't see the importance/need of a proper League strutcture.. so each year they fail to improve it even though they've done the hard part and this would be real easy for them if they wanted to fix it.

    So I guess we just gotta live with fact that they don't care :( cuz god knows how many times we've all said these same things you did here before.. and everyone agreed and I'm sure 1000 emailed them or whatever too and still.. what did we get back? nothing..

    So I'm thinking it's quite clear now, those working in Konami offices right now clearly dont see WHY its so important for us to have a realistic league, they're just more into arcadey stuff and quickly selecting AC Milan vs. Brazil in an exhibition match :lol: and that sorta stuff. Don't care about realistic league system and until THEY decide its time to do it..and get the urge, they won't do it. By us writing about it here.. it's good we sympathize with each other but that's about as far as this will get, nothing's gonna change sadly until THEY decide its time to improve it :(
  9. cappz8

    cappz8 League 2

    20 March 2003
    Berlin City West
    as always, another true statement by PLF.
    i'd like to add that i think the main reason for Konami not giving us a realistic league system is that 99% of the japanese players, Konami's most important fanbase, doesnt even care about european football. so it's correct, we can write our fingers bloody and still nothings ever gonna happen. sad but true.

  10. Decker9

    Decker9 by FAR, the greatest team

    6 January 2006
    Islington, London, UK
    Arsenal forever
    You make a lot of good points there. One of my bigggest problems that you mentioned is real annoying, the unrealistic transfers.
  11. embraceuk1

    embraceuk1 Original Member Since 2001

    30 December 2001
    Indiana USA (Scottish)
    Nottingham Forest
    Great points.

    I am glad you noticed that you cannot sell anyone on 6 star and you play the same teams in the cups as you play in the league games before or after.

    But a huge point you missed was the fact that you should be able to get fired or hired from clubs, Manager movement is a must so we dont have to start again each time the game gets boring being at 1 club.
    Its managers making the news a lot lately Ferguson vrs Wenger, Benitez vrs Morinho etc.
    Yeh basically like SWOS but unfortuanitly i have been saying this since i joined this board.
  12. valroy

    valroy League 2

    4 August 2005
    some good points killerkam, i'm sure konami can sort at least some of them out....not a major overhaul, just a few tweaks here and there. the champions league is the one that gets me...your in the prelems, and get knocked out by teams in your own domestic league before the champions league properly starts!
    also i would like the national teams league to be split into divisions (1-4) so, if you play as england, you start from div 4, and work your way up to div 1 to play teams like your italy, brazil, france etc.
  13. bigtimebuck4

    bigtimebuck4 Guest

    1) Funds should be determined by your home attendance, merchandise sales, sponsorship, etc.. like EA does w/ Madden

    2) Im so tired of never getting fair value for my players in the transfer market. Its one thing if i have to over pay, but if I want to sell Adriano I should get more than 8000 "points" for him.
  14. Professor Nutmeg

    Professor Nutmeg ML Fanatic

    3 July 2002
    Master League
    Yup, agreed. I've been saying this stuff for ages, but Nokami don't care. They think we want unlockable animal heads. I wish they'd bring the "speed bar" back too. Yes, give us the choice of how fast/slow we want the game to play.

    One thing you can do yourself, regarding the legends - Never let them out!!! Keep them firmly locked up!!! I know i do. That way, you'll never have to see them. Ever! Scourge of PES imo (along with regens)

    More silly transfers in my MLs - Ifil playing for AC Milan and Leighton Baines at Barcelona. :roll: Often, ridiculous line ups will tempt me to start a new ML.
  15. studeep

    studeep ManUnited academy

    29 June 2005
    Manchester United
    Absolutely agree mate, especially the stamina and transfers bit. i can see you've done your homework, but thing is, will konami listen even if they read it? (won't bet on that mate).neways i've gotta say absolutely vital points there "Shady Dan" ;) :mryellow:
  16. rIKmAN

    rIKmAN League 2

    15 June 2003
    Manchester, UK
    If I could find out how to create a *working* option file like the editors spit out, this is exactly what I have been working on.

    It`s a PC Management Engine which interfaces with PES5 and uses it as the match engine, so what happens in the match is brought back into the Management Engine and vice versa.

    I have loads planned, transfers, loans, player characters, off the pitch antics, sponsorships, skill improvement/decline dependant on performance, international selection, loads of divisions etc.

    However I have been unable to get ANY help in this matter, and I`m left with a half done Management Engine and no way to transfer the data to PES5.

    I know it is possible as there are PES5 option file editors out there, but the author(s) aren`t willing to help me in any way, which is dissapointing.

    If anyone is interested in helping or has any info - get in touch with me, I`m doing this for the community as I want all this stuff as much as the next man.

    It would/will be awesome!
  17. ntalex

    ntalex Conference

    8 January 2004
    Ukraine, Kyiv
    Obolon, Kyiv
    Respect! I don’t have much words to express more than mentioned!
  18. killercam

    killercam Shady

    18 December 2003

    Do you mean it can actual change the actual ml to a management sim. If tha's the case then it will be fantastic
  19. JimJoeC

    JimJoeC Custom User Title

    26 June 2002
    Southampton, England
    Good points, well made.

    Just one thing to mention is that if you don't buy/open up the classic teams then they don't appear in ML.
  20. Coopz

    Coopz Retired Footballer

    27 April 2002
    PES is awesome in multiplayer so i aint fussed :)
  21. Nick Cave

    Nick Cave Wrexham fan for my sins...

    10 July 2004
    Non football league waste land...
    Wrexham AFC
    Well said the ML is so out of step with the game of football it should have been binned a long long long time ago.... I can't understand anyone liking it!!! Full league, Full cup, deep management system.... it's not hard to do but it does require more than a tweak which = money... Konami's cash cow will still sucker in the punters, just as EA do...with another tiny tweak!! Oh and some more hair styles... WooHoo!! :(
    Last edited: 28 February 2006
  22. diddydondiddy

    diddydondiddy League 2

    27 December 2002
    Killer I think you sumed it all up in that post! quality! We can all have dreams, and maybe just maybe one day we will get some of these changes. But knowing Konami i would say that when they change one thing to make it better then they just mess up something else that was fine before.

    WE CANT WIN!!!
  23. RuneEdge

    RuneEdge Silent Assassin

    1 October 2003
    Turn around, I'm right behind you...
    Manchester United
    Re: Konami it's time to listen - ***Big rant on the Master League** Massive post - So

    Its the same with life in general. :lol:
  24. khazmiseni

    khazmiseni Guest

    Re: Konami it's time to listen - ***Big rant on the Master League** Massive post - So

    Overall your ideas about the game is excellent. My opinion why Konami ignore some of the ideas have been proposed to improve for all over the years, the answer is simple - costing and file space. Its totally possible if they want to make this game as real as reality.Technologies can be anything. Stands with their traditional ML, proof that they still can sell million copies of the game around the world and make a lot of profit. From the business prospective, they re intelligent. As a conclusion, it all about the money..
  25. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Banned

    12 February 2005
    Agreed with everything you said killercam :applause:

    Thought i was the only one who felt like this :D

    Sometimes when i play friendly games i never play against big teams, because some of the time they have some unrealistic players bought and it'll reunine my imagination for the ML...an also looking at what players the COM bought is a killer to!
  26. Professor Nutmeg

    Professor Nutmeg ML Fanatic

    3 July 2002
    Master League
    Having said that, they can get it right too. In my Alavés ML, which i started last October, Real Madrid bought Cassano. He may even have been given the No. 19 jersey.
  27. embraceuk1

    embraceuk1 Original Member Since 2001

    30 December 2001
    Indiana USA (Scottish)
    Nottingham Forest

    I remember playing ISS PRO EVO SOCCER 2 and Monaco sold bartez to Man United.
  28. Scorpio

    Scorpio Proud member since 2002

    2 November 2002
    Sporting Lokeren
    Well said, Killercam. Nice post, very strong points and a good read.
  29. denirobob

    denirobob IBERIAN PRIMERA

    28 June 2002
    Henley, Oxfordshire

    How many games do I have to lose before I get the sack ??!??

  30. denirobob

    denirobob IBERIAN PRIMERA

    28 June 2002
    Henley, Oxfordshire

    how many games do I have to lose before I get the sack ??!


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