Is it time 2K made a football game?

S

StayingPower

Premiership
2 April 2006
Houston
Manchester United
With the critical acclaim of NBA 2K11 and neither EA nor Konami presenting flawless (in the sense that they are both flawed) games, is it time 2K made a football game? Obviously perfecting an already good game is a different kettle of fish to starting from scratch and challenging two already established franchises, but I think 2K could do it. They have a very good track record with sports games (the NFL games were also fantastic before EA monopolised the license).
 
If 2K make a football game, let's hope it will follow the path of NBA 2K series not the path of buggy MLB 2K series. :P
 
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~airiRin~ said:
If 2K make a football game, let's hope it will follow the path of NBA 2K series not the path of buggy MLB 2K series. :P
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Exactly. Their baseball games have not been received very well at all.
I believe their NHL games also have lots of problems.

So, i'm not at all convinced that 2k can do a better job.
 
Yeah, just because they have done a fantastic basketball game doesn't mean anything in terms of doing a good footie game.It's just a fantasy of ours
 
They could try and make a football game, but how well would it sell?
FIFA and PES have both been going for years, and have been perfecting the ways they think a game should be played for years.
If 2K came in now to try and make a game it will be full of bugs and pretty average(F1 2010 anyone).
As long as after their first game it showed good signs of developing into a good game then maybe a couple of years down the line it might even surpass FIFA or PES.
 
I don't think 2K will make a football game, mainly because their focus is on American sports.

However, if they do decide to I hope it goes down the route of a SIM like the NBA 2K and NFL 2K series. NHL 2K and MLB 2K series were pretty unrealstic and focused more on a fast paced, fun game rather than a true reflection of the sport. I also hated the controls in MLB 2K10.
 
I think if they were to make a football game they should be smart and aim to build from scratch for a release on the PS4/Xbox 720, since like with the PS3 etc. PES and FIFA will need to either start again or rip their engines apart and build them up again!

Things the huge lack of experience? could be and issue but if they hired ex PES FIFA employees like Joe Booth for example, will help a load! :) Also the game needs a 'selling point'. FIFA has it's licenses, PEs has it's individuality and editing. What will 2K have? Surely we love sim gameplay but if it's gameplay isn't significantly better than PES's or even FIFA's why would anyone buy it?

That's the challenge if their selling point is gameplay alone they will need to absolutely destroy FIFA and PES.
 
Said it before and i will say it always.

You cant compare NBA2K with a soccer title.

They only have to work with 10 players thats not even a full soccer team so its always going to have better graphics and animations theres lees players to worry about so it means more can go into each player.

The Court is tiny so they can put more detail it and into everything else.

Its just an easier game to make so its always going to be easier to make amazing.
Its not brain science
 
klashman69 said:
Also the game needs a 'selling point'. FIFA has it's licenses, PEs has it's individuality and editing. What will 2K have? Surely we love sim gameplay but if it's gameplay isn't significantly better than PES's or even FIFA's why would anyone buy it?

That's the challenge if their selling point is gameplay alone they will need to absolutely destroy FIFA and PES.
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Have people just not noticed that big picture I posted above? 2K HAVE made a game, not too long ago either. Not sure why there's so much speculation about what kinda game they'd make, or what angle it would take, when it's already been done and we've got our answers.
 
Oh dear, pretty embarassing for me! I was reading football as American Football for some reason :LMAO:

:FAIL:
 
embraceuk1 said:
They only have to work with 10 players thats not even a full soccer team so its always going to have better graphics and animations theres lees players to worry about so it means more can go into each player.
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- The number of players obviously would mean a little worse graphics, but graphics don't make a game by themselves, can't see this being a valid point at all.
- Animations are very chepa processor's wise, so it doesn't matter how many players there are, you can have top-notch animations for any game currently. It's a matter of production (filming a LOT of animations) and knowledge (having a good bliending animation engine, amongst other things.

embraceuk1 said:
The Court is tiny so they can put more detail it and into everything else.
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- Again that is hardly a point. I don't care much if staidums are more or less detailed.

embraceuk1 said:
Its just an easier game to make so its always going to be easier to make amazing.
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- I partly agree in the fact that football is a harder game to recreate, mainly because individuality and teamplay blend in a much more complex way than in basketball. But at the same time, EA does basketball games, and are SHIT at it, even if it seems to be an "easier" sport to simulate. So, maybe 2k is doing a lot of things right?
- Most of the things that 2k does right would translate very well to a football game: presentation, career mode, trading and general managers simulation, individuality, great animations, good lightning engine...

Now, the important things that could prevent them from doing a football game are:

- Long-term investment: As someone said, they should aim for PS4, and have an initial developing period of 2-3 years. That means a lot of money, and in the current economical situation it's not a safe bet.

- Big investment: It's not only a long-term investment, but a big one. You have to take licenses for a lot of things, buy a lot of technology and build a team from scratch. That's just a lot lot of money.

- Lack of specific professionals and managing. They would need to develop a new physics engine for the football ball and collisions, a basic engine to all teamwork related things, passing system from scratch... and most of all, AI. Right now having the best professionals make the difference and they have their best people in the NBA game. That's why other games by them may suck. They concentrate the best there and it's not easy to find brilliant programmers out there. Look the difference in technical aspects between Fifa and PES, it's ridiculous. They should sign someone very experienced and do a blind bet for several years.

embraceuk1 said:
Its not brain science
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- Actually it is. The things that make the difference in 2k is HOW the game is designed and HOW is meant to be played. They have invested less money than EA in the last years yet they have a vastly superior product (in fact, EA has no product right now...). So there must be some brains involved. And good ones indeed.

Great Managing --> Great design --> Great programming --> Great gameplay.
 
I think that could work,that way EA could put more focus on Madden,I just hope you can upload draft classes if this happened.
 
The reason why NBA 2K11 was great or their how series has been great is because they are a fan of the game. They know the game inside out and how its played and how people want it to be played. I doubt that they'd also be soccer/football fans and that is already a huge reason in why they won't make the game and why it won't be a great game even if they tried.

AND, it'll be super hard for them as someone posted before, they focus on American sports, and EA has the exclusive license to MLS and the US national team, not having that in the game is already a huge turn-off for the american gamers who want to play a football game
 
drekkard said:
Now, the important things that could prevent them from doing a football game are:

- Long-term investment: As someone said, they should aim for PS4, and have an initial developing period of 2-3 years. That means a lot of money, and in the current economical situation it's not a safe bet.

- Big investment: It's not only a long-term investment, but a big one. You have to take licenses for a lot of things, buy a lot of technology and build a team from scratch. That's just a lot lot of money.

- Lack of specific professionals and managing. They would need to develop a new physics engine for the football ball and collisions, a basic engine to all teamwork related things, passing system from scratch... and most of all, AI. Right now having the best professionals make the difference and they have their best people in the NBA game. That's why other games by them may suck. They concentrate the best there and it's not easy to find brilliant programmers out there. Look the difference in technical aspects between Fifa and PES, it's ridiculous. They should sign someone very experienced and do a blind bet for several years.

Great Managing --> Great design --> Great programming --> Great gameplay.
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Well it was i who said they should aim for the PS4 which is the best option! They need to hre people like Joe Booth, Ricour etc.. people who were stupidly got rid of after FIFA 08! Also some ex football manager people and some fresh faces who lov football and know their programming! It's going to be tough but it's doable!
 
Personally, I want a new Sensible World of Soccer for XBLA/PSN/Wiiware/Steam. Keep the graphics (just updated it slightly) from SWOS 96/97 XBLA version, fix online, tweak gameplay to include more moves and a sprint button, 360 degree controls, round bars. I don't really understand why they had to change the name for every player in the game in the XBLA version of SWOS, because 1) other games that don't have the license still have their real names and likenesses, and 2) they only really needed to change the name of the team. Or am I absolutely wrong here?

I would also like to see Sony having a new go at it with their This Is Football series. They started out as a serious contender with their TIF 1 and 2, and 2002 was actually quite good (for its time). I want more players on the field, Konami and EA are the only players left and apparently, the one that leads gets lazy for a couple of years until the other takes the crown back.

Which Sony team makes the MLB: The Show series? Maybe they should have a go. Of course, just because a team does one sport succesfully, it doesn't mean it does another nearly as well.
 
This is football also had better commentary that FIFA and PES has ever had!

it was very, very fun, but SUPER arcadey! Not sure if they are cut out to make a sim :LOL:
 
klashman69 said:
This is football also had better commentary that FIFA and PES has ever had!

it was very, very fun, but SUPER arcadey! Not sure if they are cut out to make a sim :LOL:
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You wouldn't expect EA to be able to make a sim from playing FIFA from those days either.
 
EA did make one of the best pc baseball games ever. Mvp 95. It still beats the 2k games and MLB the show in the gameplay department.
Its realistic too. So, EA do know how to do it.....but that was 1995.
The world has changed since then and although games graphics have gotten better there's just too much pressure on companies these days to get the game out ever year. Money is what matters.
Ah...the good old days
 
I think they can make a football game and a damn good one too. Like others have said it would be best to focus on the next generation of consoles.
 
StarEye said:
You wouldn't expect EA to be able to make a sim from playing FIFA from those days either.
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But the only sim EA have made FIFA into was 08! Don't see your point? Difference between FIFA then and now is that now the animations look gorgeous, that's it! Still the same principles!
 
That is so far from the truth it's laughable. I love PES as much as the next man, and prefer it over FIFA any day, but to say FIFA is as arcadey as they were back then (FIFA 98/99/etc) is ignorant.
 
I'm not sure about 2K making a football game - their only real huge success in a sports game I can think of is the NBA 2K series.

Top Spin 3 was good, but it's not amazing and I wouldn't call it a better quality game overall than PES, and their baseball and NHL games are not too highly regarded.

I don't think they would top PES is they tried to make a football simulation.
StarEye said:
That is so far from the truth it's laughable. I love PES as much as the next man, and prefer it over FIFA any day, but to say FIFA is as arcadey as they were back then (FIFA 98/99/etc) is ignorant.
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FIFA may be more complex to control these days (especially on manual) but I don't think it's a much better simulation than their PS2 attempts.

Agree with klashman in that FIFA 08 was the only attempt at a sim, since then it's become a pathetic arcade game that anyone can play!
 
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StarEye said:
That is so far from the truth it's laughable. I love PES as much as the next man, and prefer it over FIFA any day, but to say FIFA is as arcadey as they were back then (FIFA 98/99/etc) is ignorant.
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:LOL: Your look at it from the wrong way. FIFA on NG is a totally different in tech to the early FIFA's and uses nice animations etc.. all that shabbaz, the ball physics, player animation blending is much, much better than it was in PS2 era, even for it's time!

What i mean is the premise is still the same from FIFA on the Ps2/Ps1 era, as in, sprinting, quick passing, skills and using that Golden tactic = win!

Here's my very old Youtube channel with loads of FIFA 07 videos!
http://www.youtube.com/user/thekanofan#p/u/1/wpqHhEcNLDU
Totally different to FIFa 10/11 etc.. They are galaxy's apart in tech but the method of what your doing to score and style of play is pretty much the same in what your doing now.

i remember even back in FIFA 95, you used to just run to the side of the pitch then shoot, instant goal every time, where as shoot from 6 yards and the keeper would make a superman save :LOL: Didn't matter back then since nobody especially me gave a shit about simulation (wasn't possible)! It was so fun!!!!

possibly sony COULD make a sim (take a left out of GT book) just wouldn't put my house on them doing it!
 
Putting PS1 era and PS2 era together is a bit vague. These two eras are very different. At least the FIFA games were fun during the PS1 era.
Anyway, I was talking about how the early FIFA games did not in any way represent football in a realistic way, and how far it was from the FIFA of today in terms of realism, thus it's not far featched to think Sony could make a realistic football game. To be honest, you could never think Konami could make a realistic football game either, if you're looking as the early ISS games.

The fact is, there's no reason at all to believe Sony can't make a realistic football game. Because, to be honest, the first TIF was much more realistic than FIFA was back then.

Also, the "premise" you're talking about... sounds like football to me. Are you saying quick passing, sprinting and a good tactic is not something you see in real football? If not, I'm not sure what you're hinting at.
 
StarEye said:
Putting PS1 era and PS2 era together is a bit vague. These two eras are very different. At least the FIFA games were fun during the PS1 era.
Anyway, I was talking about how the early FIFA games did not in any way represent football in a realistic way, and how far it was from the FIFA of today in terms of realism, thus it's not far featched to think Sony could make a realistic football game. To be honest, you could never think Konami could make a realistic football game either, if you're looking as the early ISS games.


The fact is, there's no reason at all to believe Sony can't make a realistic football game. Because, to be honest, the first TIF was much more realistic than FIFA was back then.
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I actually loved TIF, would like to see it return one day but i wouldn't bet my house on it being a total sim, that's all

Also, the "premise" you're talking about... sounds like football to me. Are you saying quick passing, sprinting and a good tactic is not something you see in real football? If not, I'm not sure what you're hinting at.
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:LOL: again your looking at it as if you have to play like Barca to win, nah it's more like you have to play like an Ice Hockey team to win. Mainly because not many if any fifa games have even properly implemented first touches, so control is always too perfect and instantaneous so you can pass too sprint from one end to another too easily! Also the 'skills' aren't feints, more OTT fifa street stuff :) Lastly, you know how stoke play (hoofball) thast too ineffective in FIFA or there's no reason to use it, anyway this isn't a FIFA thread, it's a thread on other companies making football games.

Like i said before we need to encourage maybe sony and 2K to make a Football game for the next generation consoles (PS4) One thing i liked about TIF was the almost unlimited amount of teams on the game! Jumpers for goalposts, commentary and atmosphere!

anyone else would like to see that game back?
 
I'm not sure about 2K making a football game - their only real huge success in a sports game I can think of is the NBA 2K series.
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The NFL games were v good as well. They had EA all shook up. Its a shame the NFL license is exclusive as Madden suffers without competition.
 
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