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IMPOSSIBLE defending

Discussion in 'Winning Eleven' started by vik_sohonie, 30 July 2006.

  1. vik_sohonie

    vik_sohonie Guest

    Could someone please help me, ive been playing winning eleven since its ISS days on nintendo and when it comes to winning eleven 10 i get so frustrated its not funny. Firstly, on PES5, i played on 6 stars and enjoyed victories where i dominated much of the game and was able to create goal scoring chances which one could be proud of, when it comes to winning eleven 10 on 4 and 5 stars im at a complete loss. heres why

    1. the defending in this game is impossible, i find the computer cheats! They foul me yet the referee blows no whistle and play continues on. when i try the exact same tackle its a foul.

    2. Players like messi somehow pressure john terry out of the ball, i mean does sound right since terry's stamina is in the 90's. Players like fabregas manage to muscle lampard out of the ball too i mean its ridiculous.

    3. I think on average 95% of my passes get intercepted. The computer seems to organize their entire defense tremendously while i find that when the computer is attacking and i look over to my radar, a once solidly lined back four has somehow managed to move every player out of position. on a counter attack i find john terry has somehow reverted to being a left back and wayne bridge has somehow managed to move into the centre half role!

    4. wtf is the deal with corners i mean honestly? you'll have 3 defenders around a strike but one ball in your defender, even though is in the way, has jumped and has made the motion to head the ball, an opposition player always comes out of nowhere and manages to win the header EVERY SINGLE TIME. again im talking players like messi beating terry and ferdinand to a header.

    5. finally, when i first got the game i found it incredibly easy to dribble and cut defenders in half with players like robben, henry, etc. but after my first few games, has anyone noticed that the defense manages to stick a leg out just perfectly to cut out ure dribble (sometimes they even foul the crap out of u but its never called)

    i kno this is a long post but my frustration has been as long, if anyone could help me i would much appreciate it coz i know i cant be the only one experiencing this shite

    thanks
     
  2. marsmanic

    marsmanic Patchin' N00b

    1 May 2006
    Morecambe!
    Blackburn Rovers!
    I don't have WE10 yet but i have PES 5 if WE is even worse for it than PES 5 is then god help us in Europe! i have the same problem on PES on PS2 but now i have learn't to read the game better, instead of just holding down the tackle buttons it is better to just run by the side of the player as you sprint quicker not pressing the defend buttons and then get infront of him and just take it of them with defend buttons or if time is low then pressing circle and hopefully pulling off a nice clean slide tackle, gotta time it right though
     
  3. Nick Cave

    Nick Cave Wrexham fan for my sins...

    10 July 2004
    Non football league waste land...
    Wrexham AFC
    vik_sohonie
    I'm afraid that's WE and PES for you mate like it or lump it, it changes slightly from title to title, players dive more,refs are keener or slacker, but the fundamentals of the game change very little, the comp is always stronger, faster, when it needs/wants to be.;)

    You may fire cracking crosses in time after time only for them to find the only defender in the box, then have one cross fired in by the comp to find some four foot side-back beating three six-foot defenders who for all the button bashing in the world suddenly forget how to jump and what a ball looks like!! :-s

    All I can say is it's the best there is and all in all it's as close to football as you can get for now from a bit of code!! You have to accept that it's only a level playing field as long as the comp wants it to be... and to be honest if you play enough you'll be winning the Treble on 6 stars in no time at all even with the faults you find!! And that's because of my biggest bug bear with the title DEPTH!! Or the face slappingly obvious lack of any!!](*,)
     
  4. djdoc

    djdoc Guest

    Sometimes the Defending is nuts! I agree but if you do the obvious thing then the CPU will steal it off you or intercept any passes, its best to just clear it, hoof it up the field and then start again at trying to get possesion off of them in Midfield. In games where ive found they are throwing the Kitchen Sink at me this seems to work, in fact I caught a team out on the break away and it was great!

    DJ
     
  5. Radiation

    Radiation Golden Boot Winner

    6 February 2006
    Widnes
    Newcastle United
    WOW im so glad this isnt like the pesfan forums where your called crap if you complain about the AI cheating/AI cheating on corners.

    I agree with the defence having no ...well AI at all. i play an offside trap and its either god like so my defencive line is stood on the halfway line and every pass forward gives me a free kick.

    OR its the complete opposite, usually when i need them to be on form. ive had players when ive hit L2 (offside trap) run BACKWARDS at MY GOAL (i look on the rader) and keep 3 players onside!

    -

    It has worked in my favour a few times... but id say easily 5 times a match you get the feeling the AI has gone into 'Cheat Goal mode'- i usally break thier legs though when i see that coming (eg a run down the wing that easily skip past 3/4 tackles with X)
     
  6. Nick Cave

    Nick Cave Wrexham fan for my sins...

    10 July 2004
    Non football league waste land...
    Wrexham AFC
    Nooo... no no no... call it anything but Cheating, the Comp or AI or code or whatever else you want to call it does not cheat ;) we've been down that road before, in fact we've been down up,along resurfaced it and turned it into a six-lane highway!!
    Post your gripes moans praises and boasts but please no cheating comp talk!! :lol:
     
  7. djdoc

    djdoc Guest

    I do sometimes see odd things like yesterday my goalie just froze!! wtf? Buffon just stands there and watches someone run around him and slot it home....

    DJ
     
  8. marsmanic

    marsmanic Patchin' N00b

    1 May 2006
    Morecambe!
    Blackburn Rovers!
    yeah lol its those little things which are starnge.. like slow players outpaceing quicker players.. i hope in time to come this is all fixed. Then you can take advantage of its realism like Tunisia in the world cup against Saudi Arabia in the last few mins with put Radhi Jaidi upfront because of his height and he scored a goal :D
     
  9. dieyoung

    dieyoung Non-League

    7 April 2005
    Vik, I had the same feelings when started playing WE10 because played with the routines learnt at PES5. Used to defend approaching the opponent and pressing X when closer but it doesn't work anymore, got dribbled all the time.

    The key for defense, in my case, was making it more aggressive.

    Got my lines advanced, pressing everytime the ball with two players (trying not to leave huge gaps for opposite attackers) and using supercancel (R1+R2) very often to correct the players, usually wrong, trajectory. Noticed that using supercancel make machine players get a little bit disoriented and loose balls more often, even when I'm in attacking positions. BTW I always play with player changing (L1) in full manual mode.

    This aggressive technique made three of my CBs into the ML Point Ranking top 5, something I never achieved before.

    When the ball is in the air supercancel is a must, specially at corners. Just tap once the direction pad to the ball direction with R1+R2 pressed and then X many times to clear the ball. In my case since I do that never scored from a corner kick again.

    About computer cheating I would say it does, but like someone said here it always did from the beggining of this game. At WE10 machine players are specially lucky with one on one enconters and lost balls and always got a player in a good shoot position after dribbling you on attack (thats why you don't have to let them think or turn with ball in control)

    About pass interceptions machine predicts very well vertical pass lines, specially at 6 stars difficulty. In defense I play with a pseudo 4 players line (my system is a 2-4-4 with two WB) and horizontal passes is the most secure way to play, advancing through the wings.

    Found hard to find a system where passing the ball could be quite confortable and where my players open good gaps and achieve good positions on attack zones. Since PES5 noticed I played better with many players on the front, using a 4-2-4, and at WE10 needed even more using this last seasons a 2-4-4 with 2 CB, 2 WB, 2 OM, 2 WG, 2 CF.

    For me the best way to dribble is with one fast direction cut pressing R2 combined, sometimes if possible, with a short R1 run or long advance of the ball (R1+R2) when possible. But never use to retain the ball for more than one or even two dribbles, machine players are very sticky.

    Anyway this is just my case, maybe my gameplaying style doesn't fit other players.
     
  10. Radiation

    Radiation Golden Boot Winner

    6 February 2006
    Widnes
    Newcastle United
    "This aggressive technique made three of my CBs into the ML Point Ranking top 5, something I never achieved before."

    I had 3 of my DEFAULT master league players in the top spots in PES5 until they retired. i guess its due to them being crap you have to raise your game and choose your tackles better
     
  11. dieyoung

    dieyoung Non-League

    7 April 2005
    Mmm, I never tackle, maybe that's why never achieved it before.
     
  12. winston

    winston Champions League

    7 August 2005
    Agree 100% with this one. What they've done with the cpu-auto-goal from every virtually every corner kills the game stone dead. 9 out of 10 goals I concede are from corners.

    The main problem is that there appears to be no defensive tactic to stop it because of the shocking fact that the ball just goes straight through you defenders head. It doesn't matter if you get to the ball first or not, when the game decides it's a goal, it's a goal...period.
     
  13. Gedtillo

    Gedtillo Mediocentro defensivo

    13 July 2004
    About the corner issue... I always pick a tall player and place him at the first post, close to the small-box corner, and try to move him to intercept the corner. 4 out of 5 times my defender heads the ball out with no problem. The important thing here is to have a tall defender in that position. Therefore, I sometimes have some problems with small fullbacks, as FB's are selected by default in a corner, and I have to seek another defender in a small time and try to place him correctly.

    An example of this is Real Madrid: when defending a corner kick from the right side of the opponent's attack, Roberto Carlos will be selected by default. Should I try this tactic with him, the opponent will most probably head to goal. I have to seek another player, S. Ramos would do, and try to place him in the right spot before the corner is taken...

    Good luck trying this, it is very very useful! ;)
     
  14. vik_sohonie

    vik_sohonie Guest

    Thanks everyone for advice and responses, ill be trying all the recommendations and get back to you, all i kno that if it was Konami's goal to frustrate you, they have succeeded and they are brilliant - b/c it just makes u wanna play the game more!! hahah, anyway keep posting so we can get over this nonsense
     
  15. ClassicD

    ClassicD Galáctico

    11 November 2001
    Glasgow
    Celtic
    I've found myself far less frustrated with WE10's 'curiosities' than I usually am. Maybe it's because it feels so easy to dribble at the AI that I forgive their faults easily, I don't notice it as much as before anyway. I can identify with the corner problem, however. The key here as Gedtillo said is to get your man in position on the edge of the six-yard box early enough, although for me it usually doesn't make too much difference how tall he is. The problem is getting him selected in the first place, sometimes you hammer :l1: and the game rotates your selection between two players that you'll never get to the sweet defensive spot in time for the corner being taken. It's an absolute nightmare to furiously hammer :l1:, realise you're fucked, and watch as the AI scores at the near post.

    And yes, choose your words carefully, the whole 'cheating' thing has been done already.

    The defending in WE10 is quite poor IMO. Yes, it requires a more skillfull and concentrated approach, but the game is still too offensively-balanced. For this reason, I find it better to focus on exploiting the advantages that attacking football gives you in WE10, don't try and play a solid defensive game in the same way you could in WE9. The game is beatable but ultimately doesn't feel like football, it doesn't feel quite right because of the way 9/10 goals are scored (get one on one with the last defenders and execute fast dribbles, turning at 45 degree angles, :r2: dribble optional - defenders most of the time just can't cope).
     
  16. vik_sohonie

    vik_sohonie Guest

    speaking of dribbling - this might sound really strange but when i first got the game i loved it because i found that dribbling was a dream, i was cutting fullbacks left and right with wingers like robben, joe cole, messi, and van persie, but after playing the game for bout a month ive noticed that dribbling has become an absolute nightmare, i cant dribble a SINGLE defender, if i do manage to cut him, he sticks with me until he can pressure of the ball OR i manage to get by him by he's already stuck out a leg and fouled out without getting the ball and the referee doesnt blow OR the worst and most frustrating, he's stuck out his for example his right leg but when ive dribbled him my ball SOMEHOW manages to hit his left leg and give him possession automatically. Is the fact that dribbling has gone from easy to hard coz my of my playstation, the game slowing down, getting harder the more you play or what? im at a complete loss to explain it, when i first got the game, i found it actually ridiculously easy to dribble and create attacks but it just seems to be getting harder the more i play it (i was playing on 5 star even when i bought the game). Anyway thoughts on dribbling and why it seems to have gotten harder i'd love to hear em.

    thanks.
     
  17. ALBICELESTE2010

    ALBICELESTE2010 Champions League

    13 July 2006
    Watford
    Argentina & Watford
    I had trouble defending corners.Now I hardly ever concede.I place a player halfwaybetween the corner flaf & near post to cut out flat near post corners & leave a tall centre back in the 6 yard area & manouevre that playertowards the ball.

    Uusally the ball is cleared or goes out or the opposing forward heads over the bar. :)
     
  18. vik_sohonie

    vik_sohonie Guest

    thanks albiceleste, ill try that, it seems to be what the computer does as well. it should work since EVERY SINGLE CORNER by the computer is near-post!
     
  19. djdoc

    djdoc Guest

    Sometimes I have trouble beating players, other times I dont it depends on the form of my wingers and the speed/defensive stats of the players im trying to beat plus Fatigue plays a big part of it too. I love the game overall I think in most areas its the best WE/PES game ive played in ages.

    Roll on Next Gen

    DJ
     
  20. bepperex

    bepperex Conference

    31 March 2005
    A good tip for defending lols?
     
  21. MrGoodTime

    MrGoodTime Corinthiano

    6 May 2005
    Salvador
    until now, I don´t get nothin to btter my defense...

    anybody have a guide???
     
  22. Unevilized

    Unevilized Banned

    28 June 2006
    Well, my guide is don't press X, this works, just keep walking into the opponent to get the ball.....................
     
  23. bepperex

    bepperex Conference

    31 March 2005
    Defense in this game sucks!!! It's so fucking easy to dribble foolish defenders that the real-game experience becomes litterish so far... I hope Konami considers the defending aspect as part of it's "make-the-most- goals-you-can-in-a-row game, oh dammit! I mean "football" game, next time... I rather play Fifa 07
     
  24. Aku_28

    Aku_28 League 2

    7 August 2004
    FC Internazionale Milano
    this game I saw it for mastering in defense , when your learn to defense so good the average of the score finish 0 a 0 in most game or with score in favor to you
     
  25. Zygalski

    Zygalski Ninja Samurai

    2 February 2003
    London, UK
    England
    Why are you taking stamina into account for this example? Stamina is about how much stamina the players have towards the end of the match (depending on how much they sprint etc). If you're talking about getting muscled off the ball, you should be looking at the Balance of the players involved. The player with better balance should in theory win battles like these (except when the cheating AI decides that Walcott can outmuscle Vieira ;) ).
     
  26. MrGoodTime

    MrGoodTime Corinthiano

    6 May 2005
    Salvador
    I think that the focus of Konami change in these news versions... probaly now, the chalenge is stop the atack..

    It does not matter if the player stats is good or player/machine is good enough, the dificult now is stop him...

    I'm problems to migrate of PES5 to WE10... I hope to win this.

    The shit thats annoy me, it's the CPU can sometimes steal the ball over me with easily.

    anybody know how can I do this move??? Or anybody know what I talk about???
     

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