1. We use cookies to personalise content and ads, to provide social media features and to analyse our traffic. We also share information about your use of our site with our social media, advertising and analytics partners. Learn More.

Hoffenheim article in The Observer

Discussion in 'Football' started by miguel., 14 December 2008.

  1. miguel.

    miguel. International

    29 March 2004
    Portugal
    SL Benfica
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/dec/14/bundesliga-football-hoffenheim

    Very, very interesting read.
     
  2. OPM

    OPM ... Staff

    2 June 2003
    Budapest
    .
    maybe better in the bundesliga thread?

    scum does not deserve an own topic. :p ;)

    and no, it would not be a sensation seeing how much money is behind this.
     
  3. PetrovLFC

    PetrovLFC Raul!

    13 March 2005
    NW London
    Liverpool
    Erm what players have the bought with that money?

    They have shown how to use money properly to ensure the future of a club at the highest levels. Its not just a plaything that he will get bored of.
     
  4. Nick Cave

    Nick Cave Wrexham fan for my sins...

    10 July 2004
    Non football league waste land...
    Wrexham AFC
    I'd love to win the Euro jackpot and pump 10 to 20 Million into Wrexham, to see if we could hit the dizzy heights of the 80's again...
     
  5. Bule

    Bule Leoni Rossi

    20 March 2004
    Istanbul, Turkey
    Galatasaray SK
    Well said.

    They made their first "popular" transfer last week. And that's Hildebrand. :THINK:

    I heard that they are going to build a new stadium, right?
     
  6. OPM

    OPM ... Staff

    2 June 2003
    Budapest
    .
    8,5 mio for carlos eduardo as a 2nd bundesliga team is not a big transfer? or 4,5 mio for a not very well known player like wellington?

    i am not getting into this as most of you guys have teams in leagues that are used to big investors and shit like that. we over here are not. and i can't really express how much i hate them in a 2nd language i do not use on a daily base. and i personally hate to see that stupid assclown of a club taking the spot in the bundesliga that would be much better filled with a big club with tradition, a big name and lots of fans. and that's not just my opinion. :)
     
  7. Rentalkid

    Rentalkid Premiership

    5 August 2003
    Germany
  8. OPM

    OPM ... Staff

    2 June 2003
    Budapest
    .
    brilliant stadium for "brilliant" fans...
     
  9. Aboutreika18

    Aboutreika18 Too Black, Too Strong

    5 September 2006
    Errr..guys, I think someone like OPM, who knows German football well, will know better about Hoffenheim than our cruddy media or any of ourselves, so let's not get ahead of ourselves... ;)
     
  10. cfdh_edmundo

    cfdh_edmundo Maverick

    30 December 2002
    While it's nice to see investment in a team, I hoped he would have put it into the Eastern teams, the big cities in the East (Leipzig, Dresden, Chemnitz) have no teams near the top tiers of the league and even teams like Hansa Rostock and Energie Cottbus can only stay in the Bundesliga for 1-2 years then they cannot compete with the money side of the game.

    Even Berlin, the largest city in Germany, and the largest city in Europe to only have one top team. If he had put the money into a team like Union Berlin, TeBe or Berliner Dynamo I think it would have made the Bundesliga greater.
     
  11. gerd

    gerd Retired Footballer

    8 January 2002
    Over the moon
    KRC Genk, Spurs
    I think Offenheim are a great thing for football in general and particularly for German football which already has the image of the most boring in the world (and i do not agree with that...). From what i've seen, they play spectacular and offensive football...

    I think it's great that a litle club (with big money) starts spoiling things for the usual favourites like Bayern Munchen, Bayern Munchen, Bayern Munchen and Bayern Munchen...Everybody complains that trhoughout Europe the same 10 or 12 clubs divide all the silverware between them (the English big four, Milan, Inter and Juve, Lyon, Real Madrid and Barcelona, Bayern and somtimes Werder) and when there is a new player on the field, they are hated....(cfr. Chelsea). I think football needs dozens of other Offenheims...

    I think you should have been glad if that guy would have spend his money on Nuremberg. Instead of doing that or investing in more obvious clubs like Bayern or Werder or Dortmund he put his money in his local club where he once played himself, i have rarely seen a bigger sign of loyalty and acting in the true spirit of football...

    Offenheim for champions !!!! (But in the end they will loose against Bayern).
     
  12. Rentalkid

    Rentalkid Premiership

    5 August 2003
    Germany
    I'm German and know my ways around my home countries football leagues, too. And I absolutely support Hopp and his ways.

    You'll find a fair share of people who have neutral, positive and negative points of view about Hoffenheim in Germany.

    Most fans of clubs with tradition which are notorious underachievers you will see complain, cause there are glory times ahead of this little "artificial" club. Times the likes many former "big guns" drift further and further away from.
     
  13. Montoya

    Montoya Non-League

    3 January 2009
    Dortmund
    BVB & Celtic
    Of course, you can find lots of them. But that's hardly surprising given the huge media propaganda this "club" is getting.

    German sports media is sucking up to Mr. Hopp and his little project like you wouldn't believe it. Their success is helping in selling magazines and newspapers, getting them all the support they could wish for.

    Heck, the media even supports their fairytale about most of their players being recruited from their own youth-squad. If anybody ever wondered if you can buy success in football - This is the proof.

    This team does hardly belong in the third division. Them playing Championsleague? A disgrace....
     
  14. Rentalkid

    Rentalkid Premiership

    5 August 2003
    Germany
    I do not "follow" an opinion at all. It's my own and dare I say that I was skeptical at first!?
    On every newspaper article that actually supports Hoffenheim come a dozen that put in question every action of Dietmar Hopp and whomever has a say there. That's the way it goes with most all of the football clubs in the spotlight in Germany. Media sucks - thus far I can agree.

    Hoffenheim a disgrace for the Champions League? I highly doubt it. If Hoffenheim really outperforms 15 other teams in our highest division, they damn sure deserve to be in there.
     
  15. Montoya

    Montoya Non-League

    3 January 2009
    Dortmund
    BVB & Celtic
    Their success is no surprise given the money put into this project.

    And do you really think they deserve to be on the same page with teams such as Real Madrid, Manchester United and AC Milan?

    99% of their fans didn't even knew this club existed two years ago. It's all just one big media hype, no tradition at all. They even changed their name to incorporate the "1899" to fool people into believing they have some sort of respectable past.

    Until Hopp started pouring money in, this club was nothing and would have never even reached the fourth division. And now they take up a Championsleague spot from a well-known club with actual fans and a heart and soul....ughh!
     
  16. OPM

    OPM ... Staff

    2 June 2003
    Budapest
    .
    good topic to start posting in, rob. ;)
     
  17. Montoya

    Montoya Non-League

    3 January 2009
    Dortmund
    BVB & Celtic
    Well, someone needs to do something as their make-believe starts to spread internationally already. :BLINK: :SMUG:
     
  18. marukomu

    marukomu Ecchi otoko

    26 November 2005
    Okayama, Japan
    Man Utd, Stockport County
    Everyone has to start somewhere.
     
  19. gerd

    gerd Retired Footballer

    8 January 2002
    Over the moon
    KRC Genk, Spurs
    I think you are jealous because Dortmund are has beens....just like most fans who come from traditional (failing) clubs are jealous or at least envious (which is their right of course).

    And maybe it's also the media but in the nineties when Dortmund was very succesfull, wasn't that due to money (over-investing)...

    The traditionsverein's fans are not very objective.
    On the one hand they are mad or frustrated because Offenheim is the new big club, on the other hand the club that is maybe the biggest traditionsverein in Germany (Schalke 04) is the laughing stock because they never win silverware and fail...

    Same in Italy with Parma and Inter Milan a couple of years ago...
    Same in England with Chelsea and Spurs...

    Time will tell if Offenheim will be a lasting club and if all the money Hopp pours into the club is a good thing...just like now people can come to conclusions about the golden nineties of Dortmund...was it all worthwile the (over)investment ??? (and that is something that i want to judge...Dortmund's fans should be the judge of that, just like Offenheim's fans....you get my clue ????).

    And lastly, every succes in football is due to miney, that is the case for Offenheim just like it is the case for every other succesfull club in Europe...

    I sincerely hope that Offenheim will play the Champions League and may win it. Football needs new big clubs...change is good for sports...
     
  20. Montoya

    Montoya Non-League

    3 January 2009
    Dortmund
    BVB & Celtic
    I´m not jealous because of their success, you really think that fans of traditional clubs would want to trade in their history and passion for some titles?

    It's not about them being successful. I really don't like Bayern Munich at all, but I can respect them. They´re Germany's team to beat and they earned that position over the past 25 years. But they earned it fair and square and made their way to the top without such big funding.

    You´re right, Borussia Dortmund spent lots of money on their squad during the mid-ninties. But the club was successful and known before, it just happened to be their time due to clever (which later turned ugly...) management. The club had, at no point, unlimited funding like Hoffenheim is having now.

    And I disagree about football needing new clubs. There's lots of clubs, some of them stay top class all the time, others go up and down. But nobody needs fake plastic clubs like Hoffenheim, they´re nothing but toys for wealthy men that want to take Football Manger to real life..
     
  21. gerd

    gerd Retired Footballer

    8 January 2002
    Over the moon
    KRC Genk, Spurs
    Why is Offenheim "fake".
    And Bayern Munchen used to be a litle club too...
    All big clubs were once litle.
    Some litle clubs (Blackpool, Dukla Praha, Pro Vercelli, Nuremberg,...) were once big clubs...
    What you want is a status quo forever...Carthago and Troy were once among the biggest cities in the world, now they are ruïns...that is called evolution. If there was n evolution with would still all be monkeys now...

    And you say Offenheim is Dietmar Hopp's toy...don't you think Milan is Berlusconi's toy, just like napoli is De Laurentis' toy and Inter is Moratti's toy and what about the English clubs like Man Utd (Glazer's toy), Man City (Abu Dabi's sheik's toy), Aston Villa (Randy Lerner), Chelsea (the most obvious one but not more a toy than Man Utd)...

    And be honest, wouldn't everybody do the same as Hopp ??? I certainly would if i had the money...and then it's a case of doing the obvious like Berlusconi and Glazier, or doing something in the true spirit of football, making a big club of your boyhood club...i think Offenheim's story is far more than a simple toy's story...i think it's a football fairy tale...i don't know Hopp, i don't know Offenheim (Schalke is my team in Germany) but i really love their story...it's great for football and i hope there will be lots of other Offenheim's...i'm utterly bored with the predictability of the CL...i want new teams..surprises...fair competition (within realistic limits, that is to say that money will always be important...). With Offenheim and Hopp's money, Bayern Munchen have for the first time since Werder and HSV a serious challenger...you would be delighted if it was Dortmund. But with the arrival of Offenheim Dortmund are further down the pecking order and that is your problem.

    Oh and money can't buy it all (but it obviously helps a lot): look at Hearts of Midlothian in Scotland. They also have a sugar daddy but they did not succeed... (one can even say that uptil now for Chelsea too)...
     
    Last edited: 4 January 2009
  22. Montoya

    Montoya Non-League

    3 January 2009
    Dortmund
    BVB & Celtic
    You have a weird perspective of football then. Sorry, but it would kill me to see my club being taken over by some wealthy billionaire. And again, don't compare them to Bayern Munich. Yes, they were small once but they made their way to the top alone. Without help from a billionaire.

    It may be normal in the Premier League now but it certainly isn't in Germany. And I don't see what makes putting tons of money into a club a fairytale. They bought success like no other club in the German Bundesliga. What's magical about that?

    I´m sad to see that many people are falling for this, seems like most people don't even care about football as a sport but see it as some kind of entertainment industry.

    Stuff like that will kill football as we know it one day. But by then, the fans of Hoffenheim will have moved on to the next "big thing" anyways, whatever that will be.
     
  23. PetrovLFC

    PetrovLFC Raul!

    13 March 2005
    NW London
    Liverpool
    How is it a football manger dream? What superstars has he bought ffs?

    The majority of their players are from their youth academy that has had the money invested in their facillities and scouting network.
     
  24. Montoya

    Montoya Non-League

    3 January 2009
    Dortmund
    BVB & Celtic
    They already spent millions on players when they were in the second division. They haven't bought any internationals yet but the team consists of many players that even other Bundesliga clubs could not afford.


    Check out their list of players and feast your eyes on the many squad members coming from their youth academy:

    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1899_Hoffenheim#Aktueller_Profikader
     
  25. gerd

    gerd Retired Footballer

    8 January 2002
    Over the moon
    KRC Genk, Spurs
    While it is true that they haven't exactly much players coming from their youth academy, peter Eyres is right that they haven't bought superstars...i remember that they bought one of their forwards here in Belgium from the big and mighty Mouscron (Ba)...this is not an obvious player to buy...i've bee nwatching your wiki-link...and now i'm even more impressed. They bought players from clubs like Mouscron elsewhere (Denizlispor, Asante kotoko, Alemania Aachen). in fact Hildebrand is their only high profile buyer.
    Furthermore i agree with you that money has changed everything. I don't like it a bit, but let's be honest you can't stop that. If some billionaire from my village who has played for my village team, would be so genrous to give that amount of money for my village club, i would become a fan immediately...
    Would i be a glory hunter ???? Well maybe, but clubs like Man Utd, Liverpool, Barcelona, Real Madrid, AC Milan atract millions of glory hunters, so what's wrong it clubs like Offenheim attract a few thousand new fans ????
    I respect the fact that you don't like Offenheim, but don't try to justify it...there is no justification possible and there isn't even one needed. You have the right to dislike football clubs without justification...
    While i do not agree with you, it's nice to discuss this with you...furthermore i think Offenhiem's success will be short term...in a year or 10 Offenheim will be forgotten (although i hope that they can become an established big club, just like dozens of other clubs that are litle now).
     
  26. PetrovLFC

    PetrovLFC Raul!

    13 March 2005
    NW London
    Liverpool
    The only player I've heard of before this season is Wellington and he's not exactly a superstar. Okay not many from their own youth academy, but they are hardly Chelsea.
     
  27. gerd

    gerd Retired Footballer

    8 January 2002
    Over the moon
    KRC Genk, Spurs
    And there is nothing wrong with Chelsea either...Roman is a good thing for football although i'm not sure that Roman is a good thing for Chelsea in the long term...
     
  28. Rentalkid

    Rentalkid Premiership

    5 August 2003
    Germany
    Thing is: You can't compare the business of the present with that in the past. The now "big guns" were lucky they've made it big in a time were money wasn't the quintessence of football - During the 60's or even earlier -. It was like it is today: hard work. Just on mostly other terrain. Nowadays a big club just buys top class players whenever in need. That wasn't the usual procedure way back in the prosperous days especially in the Bundesliga.

    Following your logic, Montoya, there would NEVER EVER be a "new" top club emerging to the highest stages of world football, because they'd never even have the chance to come close to them in terms of finances.

    And yes, the sports club we now know as 1899 Hoffenheim was indeed founded in 1899. Just because they were a small club most of the time does not mean they do not have any history. Hell, I come from a small town myself, but our "petty little" football clubs have more tradition and history than quite some of the professional teams in the higher leagues. Who are you to tell when tradition becomes "worthy"?
    And that's exactly the point I try to get across: NOBODY would start discussions like that if Hopp would've pumped up the club 20 years ago. Just like nobody will care IN 20 years, because by then they will have gathered some real tradition, won't they?

    It all has to start somewhere. Always.

    Last thing is a repeat: Hopp is no Abramovich. Hopp is not insane.
     
  29. player19

    player19 el comandante

    11 March 2008
    Arsenal London
    I think Hoffenheim is the best thing which could happened to german football. I saw most of their games in the first half season and I have to say that they definetliy played the best football and that not only with expensive international players like carlos eduardo, demba ba or chndu obasi as everyone expect, but also with young talented (carlos eduardo, demba ba or chndu obasi are also talented) german player like timo weiß or marvin compper which also shows their call up in the german national team. Another example is that their goalgetter Ibisevic (18 goals in 17 games) was an nearly unknown player in german football when they get him a few years ago and now he's an aspirante for the the best scorrer in europe...
    And no, Dietmar Hopp isn't another Abramowitch because Hoffenheim is his homeclub and he also supported him when they were a stranger in Germany.
    Hopefully, can they make the step in the Championsleague.
     
  30. Rentalkid

    Rentalkid Premiership

    5 August 2003
    Germany
    Ibisevic injured his ligaments in a friendly against Hamburg, or so it seems. He'll definitely be out for several weeks. :/
     

Share This Page

Welcome to Evo-Web! As a guest you can browse some of our forums. If you want to join in the discussions and get full access please sign up here.