Gran Turismo 5

Re: Gran Turismo 5 (PS3)

hmmm

Pretty graphics, undoubtedly, and they are certainly an important factor - crap graphics spoil any game.

But this is supposed to be a driving simulator...so where's the cockpit view? I've been driving real cars for over 15 years and never once have I decided to drive the car sitting on the front bumper, nor floating 10 feet in the air above and behind my car. If there's no option to simulate sitting in the drivers seat, I won't be buyng this game...period.

Physics - you can tell only a limited amount from looking at videos. GT physics has always had some nice qualities but hasn't developed much since GT1. There's no evidence in the videos of anything new. I suspect there's still big holes in the physics model.

AI....GT AI has always been pretty substandard. No sense the AI model is anything other than a 1-dimensional, stick to the rails AI model. And races against only 5 other AI cars? What kind of crap is that? Nothing I've seen or read gives me hope they've made any strides in this critical area.

Damage...long overdue. Limited to certain cars? Is it a full damage model with terminal crashes, engines failures, tyre wear? Anyway, the damage model is only one factor in determining the worth of any racing game. I suspect a crude and disappointing effort of a damage model will be unveiled.

This game has always failed to deliver in too many critical areas. I've seen virtually nothing to convince me they've made any major developments other than upgrading the graphics to PS3 standard. My money stays in the bank.
 
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Re: Gran Turismo 5 (PS3)

Nick, he is actually talking about GT5. Read the bit about Damage to certain cars only.. then Read TG's earlier posts about GT5 and you will see what Winston is talking about. Nice post Winston, everything you say about the Gran Turismo series is true.
 
Re: Gran Turismo 5 (PS3)

djdoc360 said:
Nick, he is actually talking about GT5. Read the bit about Damage to certain cars only.. then Read TG's earlier posts about GT5 and you will see what Winston is talking about. Nice post Winston, everything you say about the Gran Turismo series is true.
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Yeah but he was on about physics in the video. The only in-game footage that video showed was GTHD.
 
Re: Gran Turismo 5 (PS3)

I hope the GT development team prove me completely wrong. I honestly believe, and always have believed since GT1, that the GT series has the potential to be the nearest thing to a quality driving simulator on a console that could compare with the best simulators on PC. Alas, it has always fallen short in too many critical areas. If they would address them, I would be one happy boy. But I'm yet to see evidence that they have...only rumour and speculation.

All I see is the usual nice graphics, more cars and tracks and the usual cliched sales pitch about next-gen physics. Only rumour about cockpit view, speculation about up to 20 cars online...but not about 20 AI cars off-line....specualtion about damage model, but not how comprehensive it will be.

From what I've seen so far, it's just more of the same that they've always delivered, which is not good enough for my money. I hope all the good rumours come to fruition and I will gladly dip into my wallet.
 
Re: Gran Turismo 5 (PS3)

winston if you understand the French look the last scans with interview, the GT5 can be freaking amazing, the creator invite alot of professional drivers like Sebastien Loeb (Rally WC) and other from F1 and all speak with him about the game.
And about the cockpit view it's in GT5 like you can see on the first page.
 
Re: Gran Turismo 5 (PS3)

Yeah, I've seen the scans showing a cockpit view, but none of the in-game footage shows this view in action. There was speculation about cockpit view for GT4, but it didn't happen. I simply cannot take seriously a driving sim that does not simulate sitting in the position of the drivers seat. If it makes it into GT5, that is, for me, a big step in the right direction.

I'm afraid I take views from professional drivers with a pinch of salt. Driving games have had verbal endorsements from professional racers over the last decade and beyond. The problem is that they are drivers, not programmers nor hard-core sim players. They play one game in isolation and politely say "it's great, just like the real thing", with no knowledge of what is actually possible to program.

The classic example for me was when TOCA Race Driver 1 was endorsed by some German DTM driver saying "it's great, just like the real thing". In reality, that game had one of the worst driving models ever written. Mario-kart had superior physics....I am not kidding. What this professional driver did not know about was the high quality sims that did exist at that time. Had he played them, had he had substantial experience of playing all the sims, he would have recognised that TOCA Race Driver was a laughable mess.

If Loeb is an experienced sim driver, perhaps he has played for many hours Richard Burns Rally, so knows what a good sim is all about, then his opinion is worth something. But even then, it is only one man's opinion, and let's face it, he's hardly going to say to the GT team, "you're game is shit".
 
Re: Gran Turismo 5 (PS3)

Loved Granturismo 1 and 2 but like Konami they have just no idea where to take the game.
Its always just about the graphics, There aren't even drivers in the car it looks stupid.
You always just race against a make/model of car theres no feeling of hate or competition like there would be if you were racing real or made up drivers in an expansive career mode and not just a Mazda or Toyota model number.
The AI has always been non existent.
Its a Graphics whore paradise with no substance, I would take a less realistic looking racer with more in depth gameplay.

I always Compare Gran Turismo with WE/PES they have gotten to fixated with The look of the Players hairstyles/Car Models, Real Car makes/Adidas Sponsors etc and Forgotten about how to advance the game with a decent Racing Career mode/MasterLeague.
 
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Re: Gran Turismo 5 (PS3)

NickSCFC said:
PR stunt
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Just like getting the Ferrari GT2 drivers to play Forza 2 was...

and all I can say for GT5 is wait and see. Now with Forza 2 being considered brilliant (graphics aside) you sense its more important for Kazunori-san to deliver on the driving side. So hopefully they will, and don't take much of GT:HD into it either, because that's just upgraded GT4 (even if I do like it myself).

As for the cockpit view, it's already been shown that they've done the modelling and renders, they just need to put the view in the game, unfortunately with 700+ cars, plus HD graphics, plus damage on the racing cars, it would take forever to get the game ready, and that's without tweaking the physics and so on...
 
Re: Gran Turismo 5 (PS3)

Nah getting the Ferrari drivers to play Forza wasnt a stunt. It was a "See what they think of it" Exercise!
 
Re: Gran Turismo 5 (PS3)

matherto said:
As for the cockpit view, it's already been shown that they've done the modelling and renders, they just need to put the view in the game, unfortunately with 700+ cars, plus HD graphics, plus damage on the racing cars, it would take forever to get the game ready, and that's without tweaking the physics and so on...
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That is what concerns me. I get the impression they've toyed with the idea of putting the cockpit view in the game but, in all versions so far, have decided that they don't have the time and resources to get all cockpits for all cars perfectly mapped. So instead, they decided we can drive the car sitting on the front bumper, which is why I always decide to not buy it. I'd sooner have 3 or 4 generic cockpits to allow a cockpit driving position than none at all!!

I too feel comparison with Konami's PES is appropriate. Much like Konami always fail to do anything interesting with the ML in PES, GT never deliver with the correct driving position. They're not the single most important factor in the game (the physics/driving model in the most important thing in GT and the on-pitch action is the most important thing in PES), but they are still very significant elements that help the context and sense of realism (ie.the feeling of driving in a real car or playing in a real football season).

I can choose to not buy GT because there are superior driving sim alterantives on the PC. Unfortunately, with PES, the only alternative is FIFA, so I'm left with the choice of buying PES or not playing any footy game.
 
Re: Gran Turismo 5 (PS3)

GT5 - New Details on Car Damages, Downloadable Cars

Here are some Excerpts from the latest edition of Car and Drive issue magazine in which they give more details about the next GT5 game.

Excerpts :

- They talk about the whole GT series and the some technical differences between them and the latest iteration - GT5.

- They talk about the Polyphony’s studio and how the developers spend their time there. Some have cots with sleeping bags under their desk to take power naps.

- They mentioned that the soonest GT5 would be released would be Spring 2008 but that it could be pushed back because Sony is giving them as much time as they need - Kaunori Yamauchi wants it done right.

- Yamauchi said for GT1, one car was one day’s work for one man, GT3 was one man’s work for 30 days, and GT5 one car is one man’s work for 180 days!

- Yamauchi mentioned to program 700 cars would take at least 5 years so GT5 will obviously have less. Players will be able to download more cars in the future. Mentioned some game upgrades will be supplied and sold online in the future.

- One of the future upgrades may be crash damage. Some reasons given as to why it doesn’t have it yet are that it needs to be done realistically, the physics engine would need to be updated and that some car companies don’t want their cars portrayed with crash damage - even if it’s just virtual.

- Realistic crash damage alone is basically double the work. The way Yamauchi wants it done would mean each body panel of each car would have to be modeled separately - intact and crumpled - with the resulting changes in light and shadow.

- “Yamauchi never intended GT to appeal to a mass audience. He believed only a real otaku, or hobby fanatic, would take the time to explore it’s many nooks and crannies. Indeed, the first version was altered for the US market to make it more accessible.” The game was tweaked by Taku Imasaki for American buyers by speeding up the game by 25%, changed the gravity so cars flew longer, and added the instant-play option. Imasaki’s changes didn’t win him many friends at Polyphony

http://gamers-creed.com/?p=199
 
Re: Gran Turismo 5 (PS3)

If there is no damage in GT5 people will go crazy. I have to question what new items they can bring to the table. So far the only two things are online play and cockpit view.

With regards to one care taking 180days, what a fucking joke! There is absolutely no need for it to take that long, especially with zero car damage. 700 cars would take 50 dedicated artists 7 years to complete, nice waste of effort there.
 
Re: Gran Turismo 5 (PS3)

dude's a perfectionist.
 
Re: Gran Turismo 5 (PS3)

Tobi, I think LemonJelly likes a realistic and good game where EFFORT is actually put in to make it good! not keeping it the same since GT2....

LemonJelly, thats pure bull dont you think? (not havin a go at ya mate) doesnt take them that long to capture the model of a car and wouldnt take them too long to develop an itelligent damage model... look at Forza 2, you can damage ALL the cars on the game and it didnt take them an eternity to make it.
 
Re: Gran Turismo 5 (PS3)

- Yamauchi mentioned to program 700 cars would take at least 5 years so GT5 will obviously have less. Players will be able to download more cars in the future. Mentioned some game upgrades will be supplied and sold online in the future.
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Good. The game simply doesn't need anything like 700 cars, particularly when so many of them will be bland and far too similar to one another to be distinguishable driving experiences. 30 cars would be sufficient as a starting point.




- One of the future upgrades may be crash damage....
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So, a fundamental feature and it's not even part of the standard product? WTF? Do we also have to buy an extra download which allows us to steer the cars, and another one which has the tracks?




...some car companies don’t want their cars portrayed with crash damage - even if it’s just virtual.
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What a crock of shit. I wouldn't even bother putting such cars in the game if they can't be use to the full. Spend the money on manufacturers who are not so stupid. What do they think we're gonna do? We smash up a Ferrari in the game and think it looks so bad that we decide against spending £250,000 buying that real one we were otherwise going to buy at the weekend?
 
Re: Gran Turismo 5 (PS3)

LemonJelly said:
If there is no damage in GT5 people will go crazy. I have to question what new items they can bring to the table. So far the only two things are online play and cockpit view.

With regards to one care taking 180days, what a fucking joke! There is absolutely no need for it to take that long, especially with zero car damage. 700 cars would take 50 dedicated artists 7 years to complete, nice waste of effort there.
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Cmoing from this type of work i cans ee where the time is spent
 
Re: Gran Turismo 5 (PS3)

Gran Turismo 5 Delayed Until At Least Spring 2008

According to the latest Car and Driver Magazine (excerpts from Gamers Creed), series God Kazunori Yamauchi has revealed that the soonest the next Gran Turismo title would be released would be in Spring 2008, and that Sony would push the date back to give the developer more time. While already stated how difficult it is to create the high resolution vehicles needed for GT5, each car takes 180 days to complete versus 1 day for Gran Turismo 1.

Finally, while Yamauchi promised at the 2006 Tokyo Game Show that the vehicles would for the first time have damage modeling, he has now admitted that he doesn't believe that they would have vehicle damage when the game released due to the fact that car manufacturers don't want their cars damaged. This statement is obviously misleading considering releases in the past few years (Forza, DiRT, Project Gotham) with games with real cars have full damage models. However, Yamauchi wouldn't rule out the fact that they may allow for it in some sort of downloadable content.

http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200707/N07.0702.1113.29722.htm
 
Re: Gran Turismo 5 (PS3)

GTHDvsRealLifeJuly.jpg
 
Re: Gran Turismo 5 (PS3)

Stunning! Are any of these really not real life?

To be honest, when I first looked at them, I started viewing from the bottom of the page and worked up, so did not see the column headings to say which was which and I was wondering why Thomas had posted a bunch of photos of cars.

Surely they must have a cockpit view? Such sumptuous visuals, I want to get inside the cars and drive them, not float above them.

Makes me wonder what's going wrong with the PES2008 visuals....
 
Re: Gran Turismo 5 (PS3)

Yes, there is a cockpit view, according to a French magazine that was scanned and posted somewhere on Evo-Web a month or two ago (unless that was referring to GT4 HD or GT5 Prologue or GT5 Pre Prologue or whatever, there's a few GT titles being talked about now and I'm easily confused as it is).

As for the graphics, yes, they are stunning; but I can tell which is the screenshot and which is real. Apart from that last one, which is the best comparison of the lot. Now that is brilliant.
 
Re: Gran Turismo 5 (PS3)

The thing is the last one looks like a concept car on both pics!! ;) But truly great shots, just removed the licences please..........
 
Re: Gran Turismo 5 (PS3)

embraceuk1 said:
I always Compare Gran Turismo with WE/PES they have gotten to fixated with The look of the Players hairstyles/Car Models, Real Car makes/Adidas Sponsors etc and Forgotten about how to advance the game with a decent Racing Career mode/MasterLeague.
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compare pro evo to the competitors , what are you taliking about , grapghics only care about are you mad or confused with fifa, pes does not have as much players as fifa but fifa are like kids making up stata , the other day was playing fifa and aguero a relatively known player was left footed where he should be right footed and the stats for some players are way stupid like it had d.millito faster than forlan, pro evo is realistic in the core thing which ost people want which is gameplay and layer realism , you have to compare what you want in a game to the competitors out there , if it is all possible it would be done by someone out there as it would make them money , but in a period of a year they do what is best possible from their team and improve what they think s more important like gameplay , but do agree with that the master league needs to be imroved , as it need longevity , but most people do just lay footie games against friends and not play career mode etc.
 
Re: Gran Turismo 5 (PS3)

I don't ubderstand how anyone can call Gran Turismo a simulator, but as i only have a ps3 i can only dream the gt series finally delivers on its promise.
 
Re: Gran Turismo 5 (PS3)

@naz, read the fucking text/thread properly!!!!!

He's saying konami spend too much time focussing on unimportant shit like dogheads and the correct boots when they should be focussing their time on improving the ML. Which winston then further compares to how gt focusses on graphics instead of physics/ai/crashdamage. And he goes on to say that atleast gt has a number of better alternatives, whereas for football he only has fifa which he doesnt like and feels isnt as good as pes.

I wish people could learn to read, even moreso when someone(winston) is making very clear and well argumented opinions and a thread gets cluttered with shit posts like yours.
 
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Re: Gran Turismo 5 (PS3)

Just seen them pics and yep as usual the Graphics are there. They look stunning in places and its photorealism (almost) at its best. Polyphony Digital hear my cry!! Realistic Physics PLEASE!!! ill play you for hours and hours on end if you do! Ill blow the ever collecting dust off of my PS3 to play you!
 
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