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Football (not so villains) thread

Discussion in 'Football' started by Stan, 4 January 2007.

  1. Stan

    Stan Allez les Lionceaux !!!

    12 September 2002
    At present i'm reading an excellent footballbook: Behind the Curtain - travels in Eastern European Football by Jonathan Wilson.

    There is a large chapter about former Yugoslavia and football. In this chapter Wilson talks about the stereotype racistic villain Sinisja Mihajlovic. And guess what although thye man has flaws in his character (but who hasn't) you see get the picture of a somewhat different human being.

    Mihajlovic is the son of a Serbian father and a Croatian mother born in eastern Croatian town Vukovar. He grew up in the Serbain part of Vukovar which is called Borovo Selo. The war between Serbs and Croats started in Borovo Selo after Croat nationalists launched three missiles in that part of Vukovar. While Mihajlovic himself was in Belgrad playing for the famousRed Star team, his parents still lived in Borovo Selo.After the town was recaptured by the Croats his parents became targets of harrassment of the Croatians. Mihajlovic set up an escape for his parents. It is widely believed that the escape was performed by Serbian war criminal Arkan. After this Mihajlovoc became somewhat of a symbol for ultra-nationalist Serbs and so hated by Coatian people.

    And then there are the two famous incidents: the spitting incident with Mutu and the racist insult of Viera.

    Both incidents were reported rather one-sided according to Wilson in his book. Mutu admitted himself that he had wound up Mihajlovic deliberately during tha much and that hedid not mind the spitting (which is a serious offense in our Western perception, but far less in the Balkans).

    Mihajlovic called Viera "black shit" in response to Viera's "You Gipsy Shit" (Mihajlovic' fathr is a Roma Gipsy)...both were racist here. But the press only reported about Mihajlovic response....not the best reply by far...but still "he did not start it"....It seems that our indignation is rather selective...

    And then of course Mihajlovic reamins an absolutely outstanding player, nobody scred more goals from free kicks in Serie A, not Platini, not Maradonna, not Zico, not Zola....

    While in training camp with the Yugoslav national team his tea mate Albert Nadj offered to buy the whole team dinner of Sinisja could hit the crossbar from the halfway line with two shots out of three. he didn't need a third attempt...

    It seemed a good idea to me to begin a thread about misunderstood football villains...if you have someone to propose (and defend), please do so in this thread.
     
  2. gomito#10

    gomito#10 World Cup Winner

    9 May 2003
    DC, USA
    two wrongs dont make a right.... viera is a dumbshit villian as well... most red carded player in prem history for a reason... so i dont think this will change opinons of either man. If im in africa and I dont know about one of there social taboos, but i do it anyways, is it ok because im from the US? no, its called ignorance... and im pretty sure spitting is known to most people as being disgusting, even if it may not be in your culture, i would think most educated human beings can see how that is not the norm.. Now the part about guilt by association sucks, cause i can see him being branded an ultra nationalist for no other reason then by association, in that respect my opinon has changend of him... i wil have to check out this book stan, im currently reading about ajax and football in world war II... great book, really shatters alot of perceptions about the dutch and world war II... eye opener
     
    Last edited: 4 January 2007
  3. Stan

    Stan Allez les Lionceaux !!!

    12 September 2002
    I know that book my friend, it's written by Simon Kuper isn't it.
    As about our friend Mihajlovic, i never wanted to imply that sudenly he has become an example of fair play. On both occasions his reaction was a very wrong one. BUT, the way both incidents were reported in the western press was very one-sided....
    Anti-racism against black people is just, necessary but also rather fashionable. Serbia is one of the rogue nations and the fact that Mihajlovic was suspected as having ties with Arkan made him a very easy scapegoat...easier than Viera. Besides,the average black man or woman is more easy accepted in Western Europe than the average Roma gipsy...
     
  4. pogoss

    pogoss International

    19 March 2005
    it's actually ok because you're a foreigner . what you talked about is actually happenning every day in africa . I've seen people from america or europe do things that are bad in moroccan culture but no one cares , it just make people smile and think something like "woups he did it" :lol:
    it's ok and it's called tolerance .
    but of course you can't just spit in someone's face and pretend it's ok in your culture :lol: the answer could unpleasant and the same "this is ok in mine" .

    now to get back to the subject , a book won't make me change my opinion on someone and neither would a speech do if the one's behaviour isn't good . acts are better than words they say .
    this is just a book and that mihalovic guy's behaviour is just unaccepatble .
     
  5. Stan

    Stan Allez les Lionceaux !!!

    12 September 2002
    Pogoss, the book did not change my opinion.
    I still think Mihaljevic was far of the mark.
    But the book let me see that the way Mihaljevic and most Serb people are treated in the press is one-sided and stereotypical.
    Same goes for Muslim people who are also treated very stereotypical.
     
  6. pogoss

    pogoss International

    19 March 2005
    I understand stan but I avoid having an opinion on a whole people and use to take everyone one by one . to me mihalovic represents only mihalovic .
    I don't think viera is racist but mihailovic is and it's not something we just conclueded from his problem with viera (dunno what did actually happen between them) .
     
  7. Stan

    Stan Allez les Lionceaux !!!

    12 September 2002
    Fair enough...
     
  8. RuneEdge

    RuneEdge Silent Assassin

    1 October 2003
    Turn around, I'm right behind you...
    Manchester United
    Robin Van Persie
    [​IMG]
    I mean, c'mon. Does this guy really look like he'd molest someone?
     
  9. pogoss

    pogoss International

    19 March 2005
    I don't believe what is often said about football players and women . he's not the first victim of someone who wanna make money .
     
  10. Stan

    Stan Allez les Lionceaux !!!

    12 September 2002
    I agree pogoss, if i remember well Van Persie was acquitted...
    Typical for you to mention Van Persie runeedge, one could also mention Christiano Ronaldo, but that would be as unfair as Van Persie....and the person who would do so would be called a Man Utd hater.
     
  11. Dominic

    Dominic Serie A Staff

    19 August 2003
    Netherlands
    Cristiano Ronaldo and Robin van Persie are both spoiled and unhandleble(does this word exist?) idiots. Maybe not exactly villains, but hell of a lot more annoying than a said Mihajlovic or Vieira.
     
  12. RuneEdge

    RuneEdge Silent Assassin

    1 October 2003
    Turn around, I'm right behind you...
    Manchester United
    It was a joke, geez.
    Its funny how you're always first to pounce on any negative comment made by a Man Utd fan when fans of other teams here on Evo-Web do the same on a regular basis. Your obsession looks more like envy nowadays. :lol:
     
  13. RuneEdge

    RuneEdge Silent Assassin

    1 October 2003
    Turn around, I'm right behind you...
    Manchester United
    I wouldnt say Van Persie is that spoilt. He's as spoilt as most players of his age. Ronaldo's ego on the other hand seems to be growing pretty fast.
     
  14. Dominic

    Dominic Serie A Staff

    19 August 2003
    Netherlands
    Hmm, you should hear Van Persie in his Dutch interviews or how he behaved himself at Feyenoord; it wasn't pretty. Acting like a king with interviewers and senior teammates at feyenoord alike. I kind of like Van Persie though, his cockyness paired with his dutch dialect makes him immensly comical(not to mention his talent for football). It'll get tiresome though if he still behaves like this in a few years and it's probably only going to get worse.
     
  15. CBG

    CBG League 2

    5 August 2003
    Perm
    The war touched many many people in ex-Jug. It made best friends become strangers and enemies. You have to see Sinisa Mihajlovic in the context of the war... Honestly, no one of you in the west will ever understand it, but to have your own home wrecked, and your parents attacked, and lots of your friends killed, honestly it really changes you... it destroys you as a person.

    And this happened to a lot of good people on all of the countries in Jugoslavia in 1990s, it was really a tragic event and you have to understand that people like Mihajlovic and other people were changed badly by the war.
     
  16. Ad16

    Ad16 Premiership

    13 November 2006
    I don't think anyone would dispute that CBG.
     
  17. Milanista

    Milanista Mangiamoli! Staff

    19 December 2002
    London & Milan
    AC Milan
    Isn't Seedorf hated in Holland?
     
  18. Dominic

    Dominic Serie A Staff

    19 August 2003
    Netherlands
    He was up 'till the last friendly, where he was recalled.
     
  19. rAMA

    rAMA Guest

    I just want to repond to this comments about Siniša Mihajlović, and just want to say that hi is not racist. Yes is true that he has insulted and called Viera "black shit", but that insult was made in affect, Siniša wasnt really thinking that, if u understand what i want to say, that was just scolding(Serbians ,Croatians and others in this region very easy use this kind of language). He was great player and he is great person, but he has very low point of ,and is very very easy to make him to overreact and lose his head,especially when his team is losing. That is because he was always playing wit his heart, not head. He is now asistent coach in Inter and he is working with Viera, Adrijano and other players, and there werent any problems, and all of them are coming in Serbia for his for his forgiving match in May.

    P.S. Sorry for my bad English
     
  20. pogoss

    pogoss International

    19 March 2005
    what about what he said to ibrahimovic ? he told him the serbians forgot to go see his parents . what a great person really .
     
  21. rAMA

    rAMA Guest

    I never heard this, I remeber that they had quite normal chat on Serbian, when Zlatan was playing for Juve, but this words wasnt included. Knowing Zlatan and Mihajlovic do you really think they could coexist together in the same team after this words. I just wanted to say that is very easy to provoke Mihajlovic, and when he is provoced he cant control himself. Just look with which players he had conflits during his career :Jens Jeremis, Viera ,Materazzi, Mutu. How he never had problems with some noble players (I dont want to say that Mihajlovic is noble), it is beacause he never started conflicts alone, and he never went in conflits purposely and planed. There are players which purposely make conflicts to provoke opponents like Van Bommel and Materazzi, but Mihajlovic is not one of them.
    After conflict with Viera he publicly apologized in front of full
    Lazzio Olimpic stadion, and beacause of that he was boouuuth during next few feeks by Lazzio fans, because he made apology.
    Do you remeber that Di Canio ever made aplogy because of his racist acts(I dont think so, because he is the real racist and fascist)
     
  22. Stan

    Stan Allez les Lionceaux !!!

    12 September 2002
    It's litle bit tooeasy to call Di Canio racist and fascist. I thought the same too until i read a very long interview with him, he's actually a very, very social guy...complex personality buthe's not your standard fascoist and certainly not racist...his black former Lazio team mate Mudingayi and his wife use Di Canio as their regular baby sitter...if you are a racist you don't baby sit on a black baby...
     
  23. lo zio

    lo zio International

    24 October 2005
    Palermo
    as i wrote many times before, fascism has nothing to do with racism. people often misunderstands fascism with nazism (wich has an undenyable racists aspects), but this is uncorrect.
    fascism was born before nazism; fascism is a (non liberal) form of government, while nazism is more an ideology.

    each time we "associate" fascism and racism we "play fascists game", coz it's quite easy for facists to show they're not racists at all.

    if we wanna show to people like di canio how their politics opinions are unacceptable, then we don't have to talk about racism, we have to talk about facism.

    being facist doesn't mean being racist..... it means beign ignorant...... coz nobody on this world would ever like a despotic and non liberal form of government like fascism.
    and those people who do it (like di canio) just don't know what fascism really is about (just like those people who associate fascism to racism).... what fascism brought in italy..... how it was born.

    I'm sure di canio is a nice person, i'm sure he's not a racist..... i just think he's an ignorant........ afterall, he's just a football player :)

    usually i don't give so much credit to football players who talk about politic..... coz most of the times they don't really know what they're talking about :mrgreen:
     
    Last edited: 11 March 2007
  24. rAMA

    rAMA Guest

    I completely agree with u.... i just wanted to make some parallels... my mistake.
     
  25. lo zio

    lo zio International

    24 October 2005
    Palermo
    ;)
    no mistakes mate. actually u're right. Di canio never made apology for his (not racists but) fascists acts. and this coz (being an ignorant) he thinks there's nothing bad in being a fascist. :(

    actually i agree with u. i don't think sinisa is a bad person. he just easily loose his coolness, like many other players (totti, ibra, zidane.....).

    actually i don't think is correct to judge a man by is reactions on the pitch. when u play football, adrenaline is a big factor.
    i think i'm quite a good person, but when i play football, after a bad foul, well, sometimes i loose my coolness too :)

    a lot of people blamed zizou after his "materazzi accident". honestly i never understood why. he just had a bad reaction, but on a football pitch theese kind of things may happen. you're tired, full of adrenaline... so it may happen that u do something stupid in a moment of anger or frustration.
    what i really didn't like was his interview on french tv...... that was really disgusting and humiliating (for him)
     
    Last edited: 11 March 2007
  26. phrase

    phrase Tactician

    12 December 2002
    Little Mancunia
    That is why media and football should have never mixed in the first place.The media only makes it worse or superficially good.However,this is reality and both have to co-exist somehow.One incident has always been a good example to me.Its the Cantona Kung-Fu incident.3 sites with articles worth reading here.Enjoy.

    Offside, 10 February

    The Target

    The Kick That Stunned Football
     
  27. gerd

    gerd Retired Footballer

    8 January 2002
    Over the moon
    KRC Genk, Spurs
    To put thing a litle bit in perspective : Cantona is my all-time favourite player as a football player, but also off the pitch...he likes to read, likes art and is outspoken ...

    But...

    What he did that night against Crystal Palace is unforgiveable...a man as clever as Cantona knows that...you don't attack fans, not even "fans"....at the time i was relieved that Cantona got a rather minor punishment but i'm not sure if it was fair...imagine Lee Bowyer or Ben Thatcher doing the same thing...

    A read the 3 articles phrase...

    You know what England's problem concerning football and everything around is: the English "press"...and when i'm saying "press" i don't mean papers like the Guardian and the Independent who are among the best papers in the world..i wish we had one paper like that in Belgium... but fortunately we don't have papers like the tabloids too...the way these papers make everything simplistic...everything is black or white for them...there is no grey...

    Only the English press will have the idea of interviewing the "fan" or fan who received Cantona's Kung-Fu kick...the guy lost his job because of that incident. Well i don't know what he said, but people shoudl consider what happens in the heat of the action of supporting a football club...this argument doesn't excuse everything but look at what happened here...the offender got a light sentence and the victim (who maybe said something awfull but maybe not) lost his job...that doesn't seem very fair to me...

    Considering what happened to that fan, what will FIFA do with Materazzi after the Zidane incident???? Materazzi is supposed to be a role model (Zidane too, i know and Cantona also...).
    Doing the just thing sometimes is very difficult, but a litle bit of courage and common sens might help...
     
  28. lo zio

    lo zio International

    24 October 2005
    Palermo
    just a little specification about the "materazzi incident".
    He didn't anything to zidane. he just told him "a soreta" wich is not an offensive phrase (at all). this is a funny Napoli's expression used by a lot of people in italy that has no offensive content........ and Zidane obviously knew it as he knows very well italian. if i remember well, once zidane himself used this expression in an interview with del piero. i'd say that the fact that this expression can be told on television says it all....:)

    i'm not used to "protect" Matrix as i don't like his attitude on the pitch, but what happened that evening with zidane was really ridicuolus..... materazzi got a 2 match ban because he said "a soreta"....... and what if he said "damn it!"???? a life ban? :lol:
    what if he said "u stupid bald!" ?? prison???
    com' on:lol:


    btw i don't blame zidane... not at all. he just lost his coolness, as i wrote before. he was tired, he was having some problems with his shoulder, he felt he couldn't help anymore his teammates (he asked domenech to go out before the end of 2nd half)..... i can understand his reaction..... what i really can't justify is his attitude after the match. He let the whole world think materazzi said something "terrible" while he knew what he said...... that interview on french tv was really pathetic...
     
    Last edited: 12 March 2007
  29. gerd

    gerd Retired Footballer

    8 January 2002
    Over the moon
    KRC Genk, Spurs
    lo zio...i wasn't pleading for a big sentence for Materazzi...but the Crystal Palace fan lost his job due to some sort of "soreta"...i just wanted to put things in perspective regarding the Cantona thing...
     
  30. lo zio

    lo zio International

    24 October 2005
    Palermo
    i see mate. actually i already understood this before.:) i just took this chance to say something that, in my opinion, has to be said about the materazzi incident.... coz a lot of people still don't know what really happened that day :)

    sorry for using your post for this purpose :)
     

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