FIFA/EASFC and PES/eFootball: Contrast & Compare

[mfmaxpower]

I prefer this approach because i find it more pleasant and realistic to the eye and feel on the controller.Others find it frustrating because they want their inputs to transform in a nanosecond to the screen even if it means chopped weightless animations.

Can you point to any posts where someone has said they wish for "inputs to transform in a nanosecond to the screen even if it means chopped weightless animations?"

Take your time. I'll wait...

Because while some of us have pointed out input and responsiveness issues, I haven't seen anyone saying anything like you suggest.

There's a huge difference between saying we'd like a more responsive experience to saying we'd like the ability to break off animations, realism be damned. You're welcome to your preferences, but no need to just make shit up about what people are saying who have different preferences than you.

 

[Dennis_87]

Can you point to any posts where someone has said they wish for "inputs to transform in a nanosecond to the screen even if it means chopped weightless animations?"

Take your time. I'll wait...

Because while some of us have pointed out input and responsiveness issues, I haven't seen anyone saying anything like you suggest.

There's a huge difference between saying we'd like a more responsive experience to saying we'd like the ability to break off animations, realism be damned. You're welcome to your preferences, but no need to just make shit up about what people are saying who have different preferences than you.

It's not necessarily directed to people in here.I said ''others'',i didn't say ''others here''.
Most people here have actually objective views and good arguements about the good and bad parts of both games and there are some nice and thoughtful discussions.
I'm mostly referring to people's opinions on Youtube etc.I've seen numerous videos and posts where people say Pes is slow and trash because it doesn't do what they want the exact same time they push the button.They don't care about weight or inertia or consider that the player has actually to bring his body to a logical stand to be able to pass or shoot.
They just want immediate response at anything they do no matter the cost on realism or non complete animations.

I saw a video where two Fifa players were playing the Pes 20 demo and they were complaining for the whole match how slow it is.They actually admitted that it's more realistic for the animations to complete naturally but they were still bashing it.I could send you the link but it's spoken in Greek so i doubt you would want to see that.

Let's not pretend like we don't know what Fut junkies,which is sadly the vast majority of the player base,want and like.
It's two vastly different worlds.They have an alergy to anything slower or more sim oriented and it's immediately trashed as being ''boring'' and ''not fun''.Go and see the video that Chuny posted in Fifa 20 thread with twitter opinions on Fifa 20 beta.They all say how slow and trash the beta is.And as Chris posted there is some reddit discussion that the beta has been patched and some guys that were liking it for the more slow and realistic approach in the beginning,now say that it's sped up and it's basically Fifa 19 again.Of course we can't know for sure if we don't play it ourselves but that's telling something.No matter how EA may have a vision for a more slow and realistic gameplay,they'll eventually change it everytime to fast pace and hectic animations again at release or with some update through the year because of all the shit they will get from their core audience if they don't do that.It's just sad..At least i hope Pes won't change by much this time as i like the demo approach a lot in general.

Of course it's not perfect and i can understand the frustration in some particular cases and examples that it may seem and feel a bit more heavier and delayed than what it should be,but i'm also affraid that if they try to tweak it and play around with it much then they could fuck it up and it could lose it's feel of realistic weight and inertia that i like so much just to make it more responsive.I wouldn't sucrifice that as i like the general feel as it is now.If they could somehow improve these mini situations by adding a bit more nerve or a bit more aggresive awareness to the player but without fucking up the whole feel and approach to it,then yeah i'm all for it.But i guess it's not something so simple and easy to do and the balance line can be very thin between being realistic and weighty and being very responsive and weightless.So in general i prefer it how it is now.

I always thought that fluid and smooth are two different things.In my mind Pes is more fluid exactly because of this more heavy ''delayed'' approach.It just flows beautifuly without twitchy interruptions.There is a beginning,a middle point and an end point in it's approach and it's animation system which let's it complete naturally and realistically.
On the other hand Fifa is smooth,smooth as hot butter.It gives you super input response and a feel that you don't have to fight your controller most of the time to be able to do what you want to do,but it continues to feel ragdollish and weightless because of that.It just doesn't flow naturally because of all the twitchy interuptions that occur all the time.
There isn't a starting,a middle and an ending point in it's logic and animation system.It's just all one.Like some LSD user would say to you ''hey,it's all connected,we're all one'' if you know what i mean.It's just like a momentarily bang!
And like someone else said before,in the end it just all feels like...like mashed potatoes lol.Good description this was and i agree haha.I think it was manmachine who said that if i remember correctly but i may be wrong.
Of course i'm gonna check the Fifa 20 demo and the full game and who knows,maybe we'll,or should i say i'll,be pleasantly surprised by the game because you can't know how it feels just from the videos.Although i doubt that it'll feel much different from the previous.

At least we have to give it to Konami that for all the shit they do or don't do,they have the balls to try and bring some big enough visible changes to the gameplay from year to year which you can clearly see and feel when you play the game.
EA are not so brave with bringing drastic changes from year to year and they stick to the same approach and formula that allows them to keep milking the Fut cow.And why would they change it afterall..?
Maybe this time it will be different..maybe it won't..We'll see..

 

[rockstrongo]

It's not necessarily directed to people in here.I said ''others'',i didn't say ''others here''.
Most people here have actually objective views and good arguements about the good and bad parts of both games and there are some nice and thoughtful discussions.
I'm mostly referring to people's opinions on Youtube etc.I've seen numerous videos and posts where people say Pes is slow and trash because it doesn't do what they want the exact same time they push the button.They don't care about weight or inertia or consider that the player has actually to bring his body to a logical stand to be able to pass or shoot.
They just want immediate response at anything they do no matter the cost on realism or non complete animations.

I saw a video where two Fifa players were playing the Pes 20 demo and they were complaining for the whole match how slow it is.They actually admitted that it's more realistic for the animations to complete naturally but they were still bashing it.I could send you the link but it's spoken in Greek so i doubt you would want to see that.

Let's not pretend like we don't know what Fut junkies,which is sadly the vast majority of the player base,want and like.
It's two vastly different worlds.They have an alergy to anything slower or more sim oriented and it's immediately trashed as being ''boring'' and ''not fun''.Go and see the video that Chuny posted in Fifa 20 thread with twitter opinions on Fifa 20 beta.They all say how slow and trash the beta is.And as Chris posted there is some reddit discussion that the beta has been patched and some guys that were liking it for the more slow and realistic approach in the beginning,now say that it's sped up and it's basically Fifa 19 again.Of course we can't know for sure if we don't play it ourselves but that's telling something.No matter how EA may have a vision for a more slow and realistic gameplay,they'll eventually change it everytime to fast pace and hectic animations again at release or with some update through the year because of all the shit they will get from their core audience if they don't do that.It's just sad..At least i hope Pes won't change by much this time as i like the demo approach a lot in general.

Of course it's not perfect and i can understand the frustration in some particular cases and examples that it may seem and feel a bit more heavier and delayed than what it should be,but i'm also affraid that if they try to tweak it and play around with it much then they could fuck it up and it could lose it's feel of realistic weight and inertia that i like so much just to make it more responsive.I wouldn't sucrifice that as i like the general feel as it is now.If they could somehow improve these mini situations by adding a bit more nerve or a bit more aggresive awareness to the player but without fucking up the whole feel and approach to it,then yeah i'm all for it.But i guess it's not something so simple and easy to do and the balance line can be very thin between being realistic and weighty and being very responsive and weightless.So in general i prefer it how it is now.

I always thought that fluid and smooth are two different things.In my mind Pes is more fluid exactly because of this more heavy ''delayed'' approach.It just flows beautifuly without twitchy interruptions.There is a beginning,a middle point and an end point in it's approach and it's animation system which let's it complete naturally and realistically.
On the other hand Fifa is smooth,smooth as hot butter.It gives you super input response and a feel that you don't have to fight your controller most of the time to be able to do what you want to do,but it continues to feel ragdollish and weightless because of that.It just doesn't flow naturally because of all the twitchy interuptions that occur all the time.
There isn't a starting,a middle and an ending point in it's logic and animation system.It's just all one.Like some LSD user would say to you ''hey,it's all connected,we're all one'' if you know what i mean.It's just like a momentarily bang!
And like someone else said before,in the end it just all feels like...like mashed potatoes lol.Good description this was and i agree haha.I think it was manmachine who said that if i remember correctly but i may be wrong.
Of course i'm gonna check the Fifa 20 demo and the full game and who knows,maybe we'll,or should i say i'll,be pleasantly surprised by the game because you can't know how it feels just from the videos.Although i doubt that it'll feel much different from the previous.

At least we have to give it to Konami that for all the shit they do or don't do,they have the balls to try and bring some big enough visible changes to the gameplay from year to year which you can clearly see and feel when you play the game.
EA are not so brave with bringing drastic changes from year to year and they stick to the same approach and formula that allows them to keep milking the Fut cow.And why would they change it afterall..?
Maybe this time it will be different..maybe it won't..We'll see..

Really good post Dennis.
I agree on most of what you wrote,I'm terrified that the casual FIFA gamers who wants to make a switch to Pes will ruin a lot of what's Pes DNA.
With that said,I'm not bashing FIFA players,I myself play FIFA,for 19 I played more FIFA than Pes ,I enjoy both games for what they are.
This year,so far,we have a Pes demo that's pretty solid and reports on a Fifa 20 not being very solid (from my perspective) and it's a bit worrying,since I want two good games.
I'm pretty pleased how ballsy Konami has been with this demo,bringing back some older Pes gameplay to it.
Just wish/hope that EA is as ballsy and give us a solid gameplay there to.
But I feel that there's probably not enough room to do that over at EA since the bread and butter is FUT and MT.
I think konami,or I hope konami has understood where they came from and starts to capitalise on it.

 

[OBH]

So, my mate who I used to play Fifa with sent me this post which I put up on Reddit lat year and asked me to come back and play Fifa again.

For all it's faults, one thing Fifa has in abundance over PES - the ability to have a laugh together with your friends.

Watching your mate playing in goal have an absolute stinker had me crying with laughter so many times.

 

[Aribo n Ojo]

So, my mate who I used to play Fifa with sent me this post which I put up on Reddit lat year and asked me to come back and play Fifa again.

For all it's faults, one thing Fifa has in abundance over PES - the ability to have a laugh together with your friends.

Watching your mate playing in goal have an absolute stinker had me crying with laughter so many times.

Is PES still only 2v2?

 

[OBH]

3vs3.
I just wait for the day that Konami implement an 11vs11 mode.

I mean, it can be done, you just have to go into a lobby and organise it yourself.
It’s bloody amazing good fun though!

Thing is, PES’s co op mode is already miles better than FIFA’s. The way they track your performance with the different graphs is fantastic.

I genuinely think Konami don’t realise how good their co op mode is, and don’t realise how many more players they’d get if they made an 11vs11 mode.

It’s not changed in Fifa for 10 YEARS. Full of the same bugs and cheaters that it had in 2009. Yet people still play it cos what choice do they have?

 

[rockstrongo]

3vs3.
I just wait for the day that Konami implement an 11vs11 mode.

I mean, it can be done, you just have to go into a lobby and organise it yourself.
It’s bloody amazing good fun though!

Thing is, PES’s co op mode is already miles better than FIFA’s. The way they track your performance with the different graphs is fantastic.

I genuinely think Konami don’t realise how good their co op mode is, and don’t realise how many more players they’d get if they made an 11vs11 mode.

It’s not changed in Fifa for 10 YEARS. Full of the same bugs and cheaters that it had in 2009. Yet people still play it cos what choice do they have?

Wish they could open up for cross play,imagine how many leagues/tournament you could set up?

 

[rojofa]

Thing is, PES’s co op mode is already miles better than FIFA’s. The way they track your performance with the different graphs is fantastic.

I genuinely think Konami don’t realise how good their co op mode is, and don’t realise how many more players they’d get if they made an 11vs11 mode.

Strongly disagree if you are talking about the 3v3 mode.

They allow solo players to play "co-op" with two CPU "partners", ridiculously overpowered MyClub teams against normal teams and it has horrendous matchmaking. Many times it put us in completely unplayable matches with people in another continent.

The gameplay when you have at least 2 human players on each side can be really good at times, but everything about the design of the mode itself is dreadful.

 

[OBH]

They allow solo players to play "co-op" with two CPU "partners", ridiculously overpowered MyClub teams against normal teams and it has horrendous matchmaking. Many times it put us in completely unplayable matches with people in another continent.

The gameplay when you have at least 2 human players on each side can be really good at times, but everything about the design of the mode itself is dreadful.

Ahh, I forgot about that, you make some very, very good points my friend! Let me correct myself - when you play with real teams, and 6 players - it’s amazing.

I got a bit caught up in the 3vs3 fun I had playing with friends and forgot the technical issues. Allowing OP MyClub teams to be matched with standard teams, and allowing 3 players to play against someone solo and 2 AI were two ridiculous decisions.

When it’s good though, it’s really, really good.

 

[Peter Withe]

So I've played a LOT of PES 2020 demo and went back to FIFA 19 this morning after ignoring it for a few months.

The shooting and general feeling when you score a goal in FIFA just feels right, it feels rewarding, satisfying. Scoring goals in PES 2019 and now the 2020 demo feels so damn boring. It ruins an otherwise extremely good demo for me.

I can't get past the shooting to even try to enjoy PES. I've tried advanced shooting, default etc but it's bland. PES has lost it's magic in that department and I'm worried it will never return.

 

[OBH]

So I've played a LOT of PES 2020 demo and went back to FIFA 19 this morning after ignoring it for a few months.

The shooting and general feeling when you score a goal in FIFA just feels right, it feels rewarding, satisfying. Scoring goals in PES 2019 and now the 2020 demo feels so damn boring. It ruins an otherwise extremely good demo for me.

I can't get past the shooting to even try to enjoy PES. I've tried advanced shooting, default etc but it's bland. PES has lost it's magic in that department and I'm worried it will never return.

I'm absolutely convinced it's PES's lower average shot power that ruins the experience of scoring for some people.

Here are 3 clips for you:
1 - PES 2020
2 - Fifa 19
3 - PES 6

Spoiler

If you asked me to order them from most realistic to least (in terms of how the shooting looks, not graphics obviously, that's not fair! ) I'd answer 1, 2, 3. PES 2020 has far more believable shot power. That Fifa goal is hit harder than PES 2020 and he's stood still!

However, if you asked me to rate them on how much fun it looks to score, I'd reverse it and answer 3, 2, 1.

Of course, you guys may completely disagree with me, but I genuinely believe that this constant quest for 'realism' harms PES in terms of how thrilling it is to score. There are so few "WTF! HOW DID HE DO THAT!?" moments. Almost every goal is one you've seen before. They look fantastic visually, and very believable, but they become bland, commonplace, and uninspiring. Fifa's is always just that liiiiitle bit overpowered, and that's what gets you off your seat.

 

[Chuny]

I'm absolutely convinced it's PES's lower average shot power that ruins the experience of scoring for some people.

Here are 3 clips for you:
1 - PES 2020
2 - Fifa 19
3 - PES 6

Spoiler

If you asked me to order them from most realistic to least (in terms of how the shooting looks, not graphics obviously, that's not fair! ) I'd answer 1, 2, 3. PES 2020 has far more believable shot power. That Fifa goal is hit harder than PES 2020 and he's stood still!

However, if you asked me to rate them on how much fun it looks to score, I'd reverse it and answer 3, 2, 1.

Of course, you guys may completely disagree with me, but I genuinely believe that this constant quest for 'realism' harms PES in terms of how thrilling it is to score. There are so few "WTF! HOW DID HE DO THAT!?" moments. Almost every goal is one you've seen before. They look fantastic visually, and very believable, but they become bland, commonplace, and uninspiring. Fifa's is always just that liiiiitle bit overpowered, and that's what gets you off your seat.

I'd probably agree.
It's cuz of the threshold.
When you press the button to take the shot and power up the bar in PES, it's fairly easy to reach the exact point that will send the ball to the back of the net.

In FIFA it's a little harder.
And in PES 6 it was even harder because it depended a lot more on body positioning AND player stats. So what might work with one player may not work with another one because of shooting power, accuracy, etc.

 

[Sovereign Hope]

Imo the lack of satisfying when scoring is due to the linear speed of the ball after the player kicked it. The ball speed during the initial flight, middle and the end of the ball flight is constant/same. plus the hard/thick sound of the ball when shooting feels like you kicking a brick instead of a ball with air in it. I think the ball needs to be a bit more floaty when shooting.

Its weird because crossing and passing feels good. Its like they are using different mechanic/ball physic for shooting alone.

 

[flokiman]

To all people here:
You know that the shooting power bar is the height of the shot, not the power, right?

 

[OBH]

To all people here:
You know that the shooting power bar is the height of the shot, not the power, right?

Not on advanced it isn’t. Otherwise powerful low shots wouldn’t be possible.

@Sovereign Hope you make a really good point about the sound. It’s funny how often I see the negative things about PES always come back to the sound design. Even something simple like hitting the post has a really loud and satisfying thud on Fifa.

@Chuny I’m not sure if Fifa is harder personally. You’d probably be right if Fifa didn’t always have some horribly easy ways to score which players just exploit every year - near post shots, outside the box finesse shots, low driven shots. For how satisfying it is to score you do see the same type of goals over and over again. PES has had some too of course, chip shots when you’re through 1vs1 vs the gk for example are very powerful, but nowhere near the same number. Fifa players will work themselves into positions not because its good football, but because they’re trying to work themselves into that certain angle that always leads to a goal.

Think it was Fifa 15 where players with a poor week foot were golden because outside the foot shots from the edge of the box just flew in every time

 

[flokiman]

Not on advanced it isn’t. Otherwise powerful low shots wouldn’t be possible.

Yes i was refering to basic and manual shooting.

A nice video showing some realistic moments:

 

[PRO_TOO]

 

[papinho81]

The "presentation" picture of this video illustrate quite well one of the aspects of the PES2020 demo that prevent me fully enjoying it. The game is rarely/never ball oriented. Team shapes do not adapt to where is the ball (both for the attacking and the defending team; ironically the only moments teams do adapt is during goal kicks while in fifa they don't), and this is, once again, something to put on PES tactic rigidity. If you compare the team shapes (including the radars) for almost the same ball position on the pitch the shapes and the player "concentration" is dramatically different and IMO fifa recreates with more fidelity what is happening in the real game.

 

[Emroth]

I've said before, I think there's a split in what communities like ours generally want now that it's 2019 - one side wants the best possible classic PES game, and occasionally will say things like "give us a PES 5 remaster" or whatever their favourite classic might be. That's what 2020 feels like to me. A real "best of" PES

I borrowed this @Chris Davies quote from other thread as Im planning to get touchy feely with both games.

This (and the rest of his post there) is a very nice summary.
As much as I agree with a lot of 'issues' that people might have with pes20 demo, Im always thinking in the back of my head that we need to be realistic here.
I know that we should always expect more, I realise that its 2019 - you are all right.

But...

Last few years we didnt even have absolute fundamentals covered in BOTH games.
We had no fouls, zero physicality, laser guided ping pong fiestas, no dribbling from AI, no shots from distance, low crossing bollox and soul destroying scripts...

Both games were terrible to play from different reasons.
Personally I think its a bit of a miracle that Konami managed to come out with a demo like this out of nowhere. After Pes17 it looked to me like table soccer with no physicality will be standard from now on.

On the other side EA still struggles with such basics like ball physics.
After over 20 years of making football games and earning fat $$$'s they cant even get that right. A thing that you should, IMO, start of, when making football games..

With a bit of luck Pes20 will not change upon release and it wont be an exception in its approach, like pes14 was.
Once we have fundamentals covered - we can dwell deeper. We can ask for more generic stadiums, deeper edit mode, stuff that adds some immersion.

Things like that were almost silly to ask for, when we could bare the game on the pitch.
Fifa has all the bells and most people keep coming back to pes. Why? Coz fifa still struggles with absolute basics.

I wish them well, I really do.
Last year, if I was to bet on one game that will eventually nail it - would be Fifa.
But I see the effort that went into Pes this year, while also see no effort whatsoever from EA. And Im not talking about modes and new shinny features - Im talking about recreating sport, that both games represent.

 

[Peter Withe]

I borrowed this @Chris Davies quote from other thread as Im planning to get touchy feely with both games.

This (and the rest of his post there) is a very nice summary.
As much as I agree with a lot of 'issues' that people might have with pes20 demo, Im always thinking in the back of my head that we need to be realistic here.
I know that we should always expect more, I realise that its 2019 - you are all right.

But...

Last few years we didnt even have absolute fundamentals covered in BOTH games.
We had no fouls, zero physicality, laser guided ping pong fiestas, no dribbling from AI, no shots from distance, low crossing bollox and soul destroying scripts...

Both games were terrible to play from different reasons.
Personally I think its a bit of a miracle that Konami managed to come out with a demo like this out of nowhere. After Pes17 it looked to me like table soccer with no physicality will be standard from now on.

On the other side EA still struggles with such basics like ball physics.
After over 20 years of making football games and earning fat $$$'s they cant even get that right. A thing that you should, IMO, start of, when making football games..

With a bit of luck Pes20 will not change upon release and it wont be an exception in its approach, like pes14 was.
Once we have fundamentals covered - we can dwell deeper. We can ask for more generic stadiums, deeper edit mode, stuff that adds some immersion.

Things like that were almost silly to ask for, when we could bare the game on the pitch.
Fifa has all the bells and most people keep coming back to pes. Why? Coz fifa still struggles with absolute basics.

I wish them well, I really do.
Last year, if I was to bet on one game that will eventually nail it - would be Fifa.
But I see the effort that went into Pes this year, while also see no effort whatsoever from EA. And Im not talking about modes and new shinny features - Im talking about recreating sport, that both games represent.

I disagree with this. PES 2017 was an excellent game. Konami could have added more stadia and content after hitting the heights of that.

I feel like you’re making excuses for Konami - I read this kind of thing every year. “Oh they’ve sorted the gameplay this time, next year we’ll get the content!” Rinse repeat.

Edit: my post comes across as me being snarky, I promise I’m not. You reason extremely well in your post, I just disagree with the part that I’ve commented on

 

[Emroth]

I disagree with this. PES 2017 was an excellent game. Konami could have added more stadia and content after hitting the heights of that.

I feel like you’re making excuses for Konami - I read this kind of thing every year. “Oh they’ve sorted the gameplay this time, next year we’ll get the content!” Rinse repeat.

It was a great game. I was still playing it a month ago.
Then, out of nowhere, comes 18. Zero physicality, dumbed down AI (depending primarily on chipped through passes, arcade rocket shots and no fouls.
After that comes 19. Even dumber AI and difficulty replaced with script, very few scoreless results, zero dribbling, zero shots from distance.. you know yourself.
So it looked to me like from 17 onwards that was the end of enjoyable offline. When I saw new name for Pes20 - I thought thats it.
But then came the gameplay, which not only has all the basics, issues fixed, but also seems to be having more realistic approach.
Dont know about you, but colour me surprised.

 

[Peter Withe]

It was a great game. I was still playing it a month ago.
Then, out of nowhere, comes 18. Zero physicality, dumbed down AI (depending primarily on chipped through passes, arcade rocket shots and no fouls.
After that comes 19. Even dumber AI and difficulty replaced with script, very few scoreless results, zero dribbling, zero shots from distance.. you know yourself.
So it looked to me like from 17 onwards that was the end of enjoyable offline. When I saw new name for Pes20 - I thought thats it.
But then came the gameplay, which not only has all the basics, issues fixed, but also seems to be having more realistic approach.
Dont know about you, but colour me surprised.

You’re right, I’m overly critical of the PES 2020 demo. Maybe I’m expecting too much from it I don’t know.

It’s definitely a big step in the right direction. I’m a grumpy old man when it comes to football gaming these days, I need to just chill and enjoy one of the games for what they are I think.

 

[rockstrongo]

Seeing gameplay videos and playing a game yourself is really two different things.
But the things I've seen from FIFA's gameplay videos,the CPU one touch,or never building up a play,or start over when failing to build up Vs what I've seen or played on the Pes demo,I can't justify a buy of fifa.
It looks absolutely horrible as it is now.
Maybe it'll change,but based on previous years,I wouldn't hold my breath.
I would rather play Pes 20 ML on one stadium than FIFA's fully licenced ones.
Hope I'm wrong and we'll see two good games.
But...

 

[Aribo n Ojo]

You’re right, I’m overly critical of the PES 2020 demo. Maybe I’m expecting too much from it I don’t know.

It’s definitely a big step in the right direction. I’m a grumpy old man when it comes to football gaming these days, I need to just chill and enjoy one of the games for what they are I think.

No point in forcing yourself to like anything, Last football game i truly liked was Fifa WC 10 or Fifa 11. I just couldnt bring myself to liking the later Fifas or PES games just no point your better playing other games you enjoy. Thats why i still play PES 5 now and then just for the best football fix for me.

 

[OBH]

Seen how overpowered FIFA’s ‘contain’ button is? It’s basically auto jockey.

No thank you.

Having said that, I heard one argument today for why FIFA’s faster paced game is better than a slower more realistic pace that I’d never heard before:

“you can’t have a game at the same pace as real life. They have 45mins to score, but if you play online, we only have 6 minutes. In real life it might take them 5 mins to string together a decent passing move. On PES that might take 15/20mins in game. As well as this, a slower paced game also means a striker can be knackered by 75mins after potentially only sprinting once or twice. Yes, the pace is realistic, but the affect it has on the players and the amount of chances you can create absolutely isn’t”.

I might not completely agree with it myself, especially when talking about recent high scoring PES titles, but 2020? Damn is that a perfectly valid argument. I never really considered how the lower match times affect things.

 

[Emroth]

I might not completely agree with it myself, especially when talking about recent high scoring PES titles, but 2020? Damn is that a perfectly valid argument

Not really. If you look at end stats from real life match and Pes - you will get similar (or most of the time higher) number of shots on target on Pes Vs real match. And so far we only have 5mins matches, where most people here play 15/20.
Even when you talk about online 10mins - I havent had a single match yet, where there would be shortage of goal scoring opportunities. And, as you know, im playing on manual, so creating chances is harder.

 

[Redhat]

It's a bit of a weird one for me this time around. I purchase both every single year, but I'm at the point where I don't know which game I'll spend more time with. Usually it's FIFA because I prefer the Career Mode (despite it being shit), the CPU AI, and the act of scoring. I'm finding it to be very difficult to go back to FIFA 19 after playing the PES 2020 demo. The the latter makes the former look an entire generation behind in some aspects. The operative phrase there is, "some aspects."

The main issue I have with PES 2020 at the moment is that there's very little resistance in the midfield. This has been a bug-bear of mine for the past several years. It's as if the game doesn't start until either you or your opposition are in the final third. Bypassing the midfield with a few passes is a routine affair and in fact, I've been able pull off marauding runs that would make Gerrard envious with the likes of Chiellini. Every so often, I'll attempt one of these half-hardhearted runs and low-and-behold, it's very effective. By marauding runs I mean holding down the sprint button and galloping up the middle or down the wing. In one match, I managed to do this on several occasions with my centre-backs, with one resulting in a goal. Creating goal scoring chances is too straight forward.

On the flip side, as soon as you're dispossessed, the CPU play one or two passes forward and then execute a perfectly timed through ball or play an inch perfect pass over the top where the striker doesn't even have to break stride. The amount of times I've witnessed, say, Arsenal spew these impeccable balls forward to Aubameyang makes my head spin. The CPU AI honestly reminds me a bit of PES 2013 where they're hell-bent on playing it to their striker ASAP. It makes for a very rudimentary, back-and-forth type of experience.

The little passes, touches, realistic animations and the entire precursor to scoring a goal feels completely superfluous at times. The look and feel of it is outstanding and unrivaled in many ways, but it's almost as if it's a beautiful facade intended to deceive the user from the fact that the game is a bit shallow under the surface level pageantry. They give you all of these fantastic tools, but the CPU doesn't demand enough from the player to make using them feel satisfying and rewarding (or necessary).

EDIT: Also far too easy to dispossess the AI defenders by just clattering into them. I've scored a decent amount of goals by virtue of the AI CB being beyond lackadaisical on the ball inside his own half.

 

[OBH]

It's a bit of a weird one for me this time around. I purchase both every single year, but I'm at the point where I don't know which game I'll spend more time with. Usually it's FIFA because I prefer the Career Mode (despite it being shit), the CPU AI, and the act of scoring. I'm finding it to be very difficult to go back to FIFA 19 after playing the PES 2020 demo. The the latter makes the former look an entire generation behind in some aspects. The operative phrase there is, "some aspects."

The main issue I have with PES 2020 at the moment is that there's very little resistance in the midfield. This has been a bug-bear of mine for the past several years. It's as if the game doesn't start until either you or your opposition are in the final third. Bypassing the midfield with a few passes is a routine affair and in fact, I've been able pull off marauding runs that would make Gerrard envious with the likes of Chiellini. Every so often, I'll attempt one of these half-hardhearted runs and low-and-behold, it's very effective. By marauding runs I mean holding down the sprint button and galloping up the middle or down the wing. In one match, I managed to do this on several occasions with my centre-backs, with one resulting in a goal. Creating goal scoring chances is too straight forward.

On the flip side, as soon as you're dispossessed, the CPU play one or two passes forward and then execute a perfectly timed through ball or play an inch perfect pass over the top where the striker doesn't even have to break stride. The amount of times I've witnessed, say, Arsenal spew these impeccable balls forward to Aubameyang makes my head spin. The CPU AI honestly reminds me a bit of PES 2013 where they're hell-bent on playing it to their striker ASAP. It makes for a very rudimentary, back-and-forth type of experience.

The little passes, touches, realistic animations and the entire precursor to scoring a goal feels completely superfluous at times. The look and feel of it is outstanding and unrivaled in many ways, but it's almost as if it's a beautiful facade intended to deceive the user from the fact that the game is a bit shallow under the surface level pageantry. They give you all of these fantastic tools, but the CPU doesn't demand enough from the player to make using them feel satisfying and rewarding (or necessary).

No idea if you have PC or console, but Legend is a totally different bag. I’ve played Bayern and Thiago has beaten two players with one skill and stormed towards the box. I swear I’d never seen that before.

Honestly, I’ve never really understood the dislike with the AI hitting the striker ASAP. Bar the very top teams (and in some cases including the top teams) that is exactly the game plan. Just look at Liverpool; midfield is not there to create. The idea is hit the front 3 immediately, and if not, switch it to the opposite fullback who’ll storm forwards with the intention of hitting the strikers as soon as the best opportunity arises. Even international football which was notorious for slow, ponderous football has had a surge of really aggressively attacking teams. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying every single team plays by hitting the strikers ASAP, but this build up play everyone seems to want really isn’t as common as people think it is. Passing it through midfield with multiple touches is the minority, as most teams simply don’t have the quality to do it.

(Having said all that I am basing this entirely on English, Scottish, and international football. I certainly could never claim to know how mid / low table Brazilian teams play for example).

Back on topic though, I’ve found that as the tactics make far more of an impact on Fifa, if you aren’t happy with the way a certain team plays you can easily tweak it yourself. By comparison PES is incredibly difficult to make the AI play exactly as you want it to. Any attacking fullback for example will NOT stay back unless you waste one of your advanced tactics on defensive. Try using Barca in coach mode, only by using fluid formation in a creative manner can you force the AI to behave any differently. How an AI plays appears to be governed almost entirely by the players personality traits. The formation is little more than a starting position, and the advanced tactics are painfully limiting. PES is absolutely crying out for the same individual instructions you can give on Fifa.

 

[papinho81]

It's a bit of a weird one for me this time around. I purchase both every single year, but I'm at the point where I don't know which game I'll spend more time with. Usually it's FIFA because I prefer the Career Mode (despite it being shit), the CPU AI, and the act of scoring. I'm finding it to be very difficult to go back to FIFA 19 after playing the PES 2020 demo. The the latter makes the former look an entire generation behind in some aspects. The operative phrase there is, "some aspects."

The main issue I have with PES 2020 at the moment is that there's very little resistance in the midfield. This has been a bug-bear of mine for the past several years. It's as if the game doesn't start until either you or your opposition are in the final third. Bypassing the midfield with a few passes is a routine affair and in fact, I've been able pull off marauding runs that would make Gerrard envious with the likes of Chiellini. Every so often, I'll attempt one of these half-hardhearted runs and low-and-behold, it's very effective. By marauding runs I mean holding down the sprint button and galloping up the middle or down the wing. In one match, I managed to do this on several occasions with my centre-backs, with one resulting in a goal. Creating goal scoring chances is too straight forward.

On the flip side, as soon as you're dispossessed, the CPU play one or two passes forward and then execute a perfectly timed through ball or play an inch perfect pass over the top where the striker doesn't even have to break stride. The amount of times I've witnessed, say, Arsenal spew these impeccable balls forward to Aubameyang makes my head spin. The CPU AI honestly reminds me a bit of PES 2013 where they're hell-bent on playing it to their striker ASAP. It makes for a very rudimentary, back-and-forth type of experience.

The little passes, touches, realistic animations and the entire precursor to scoring a goal feels completely superfluous at times. The look and feel of it is outstanding and unrivaled in many ways, but it's almost as if it's a beautiful facade intended to deceive the user from the fact that the game is a bit shallow under the surface level pageantry. They give you all of these fantastic tools, but the CPU doesn't demand enough from the player to make using them feel satisfying and rewarding (or necessary).

EDIT: Also far too easy to dispossess the AI defenders by just clattering into them. I've scored a decent amount of goals by virtue of the AI CB being beyond lackadaisical on the ball inside his own half.

You summed up really well how I feel about the PES20 demo too. The improvements over the previous version are GIANTS but they are watered by a too rigid and obsolete tactical system. The overall positioning of players in relation to where is the ball, where are the dangerous free opponents (often in the middle of the park) is really poor. I can bear direct football, but at least the ST when receiving the ball should not be free with acres of space. When a team attack their CB or DMF have not interest in the opposition ST being free 5 to 10 yards of distance from them because they have to stick to the midfield line.

It is a bit of a breaking heart, because if the game implemented those things all related to tactical and positioning awareness it would have the potential to be a land mark for me. And I am sure that the physicality that transpires in the demo would absolutely shine with this.

 

[OBH]

You summed up really well how I feel about the PES20 demo too. The improvements over the previous version are GIANTS but they are watered by a too rigid and obsolete tactical system. The overall positioning of players in relation to where is the ball, where are the dangerous free opponents (often in the middle of the park) is really poor. I can bear direct football, but at least the ST when receiving the ball should not be free with acres of space. When a team attack their CB or DMF have not interest in the opposition ST being free 5 to 10 yards of distance from them because they have to stick to the midfield line.

It is a bit of a breaking heart, because if the game implemented those things all related to tactical and positioning awareness it would have the potential to be a land mark for me. And I am sure that the physicality that transpires in the demo would absolutely shine with this.

This is so true.
Fifa players mark automatically but have a horrible tendency to just let the ball roll past their feet if you aren’t controlling the player.

PES AI on your team will intercept the ball far more often, not perfect by any means, but miles better in this regard. However, marking is non existent unless you set it up specifically.

It also MUST be man marking. How you can’t set a defensive midfielder to zonal mark is criminal, as that is pivotal to that position.

PES’s fluid formations can also cause absolute havoc will man marking settings.